So I have the new savage 110 in 338 lapua and I am handloading with hornady brass, h1000, and 300gr. Smk. The problem I am having is some of the rounds after being fired are becoming stuck in the chamber and I have to use a cleaning rod to remove them. I am trimming them to 2.714 and not all are becoming stuck but it will actually jump off of the extractor. Any help would be great.
savage 110 fcp-hs 338 shell sticking
- Thread starter snipe83p
- Start date
Re: savage 110 fcp-hs 338 shell sticking
I know there have been some guys having that issue with the Savage.. One guy found a reaming ridge in the chamber that was grabbing the brass.. You might try loading up some Lapua brass and see how it does on extraction. The Lapua brass is lots better than the Hornady..
Rick
I know there have been some guys having that issue with the Savage.. One guy found a reaming ridge in the chamber that was grabbing the brass.. You might try loading up some Lapua brass and see how it does on extraction. The Lapua brass is lots better than the Hornady..
Rick
Re: savage 110 fcp-hs 338 shell sticking
Mine will stick 3 out of 5 with the Hornady brass even trimmed to 2.716, but has never stuck with the HSM brass trimmed to same length which is the stock length for HSM. I have found that brass builds up quick on my extractor when I use the Hornady brass. I am using 97.5 gr of Vihta N170, Sierra 250gr hpbt and Winchester primer. I am getting 3053 fps on the high side and 3048 fps on the low side. I have some Lapua brass on order now.
Mine will stick 3 out of 5 with the Hornady brass even trimmed to 2.716, but has never stuck with the HSM brass trimmed to same length which is the stock length for HSM. I have found that brass builds up quick on my extractor when I use the Hornady brass. I am using 97.5 gr of Vihta N170, Sierra 250gr hpbt and Winchester primer. I am getting 3053 fps on the high side and 3048 fps on the low side. I have some Lapua brass on order now.
Re: savage 110 fcp-hs 338 shell sticking
Which Savage .338 do you have?
I have the 110 BA = when I was testing ammo including Lapua, Black Hills, Hornady, and Federal Gold Medal, the only ammo that would stick and have a hard bold lift was the hornady.
I have a friend that recently purchased a Savage 110 BA and he experienced problems with Hornady ammo and brass.
I have heard that the Hornady brass is too thin for the .338 round. Try some other brass. The Federal GM uses Lapua brass.
Lapua is the only brass I use. Never have any problems.
Which Savage .338 do you have?
I have the 110 BA = when I was testing ammo including Lapua, Black Hills, Hornady, and Federal Gold Medal, the only ammo that would stick and have a hard bold lift was the hornady.
I have a friend that recently purchased a Savage 110 BA and he experienced problems with Hornady ammo and brass.
I have heard that the Hornady brass is too thin for the .338 round. Try some other brass. The Federal GM uses Lapua brass.
Lapua is the only brass I use. Never have any problems.
Re: savage 110 fcp-hs 338 shell sticking
Several issues may come into play here.
I just sold a Savage 110 BA myself. An accurate enough gun (about 1/3-1/2 MOA in load testing), the "ergonomics" weren't working for me. I WAS having the stuck case problem too, but thought it was due to pushing the loads too fast/hot, even though the cases and primers weren't showing any other signs of overpressure like cratering, flattening of the primers or ejector marks on the base.
I was using Hornady brass, too. First weird thing was getting the right shell holder. I found out later that the Hornady brass would fit in ONE size, but the Lapua brass was too big at the rim to fit the same shell holder.
Thinking it might be the extractor popping over the rim, I contacted Savage customer service who sent me a new extractor/ball/spring set. Didn't help. I "googled" the problem (Savage case extraction were the search terms, IIRC), and found sharpshooters supply.com in Delphos, OH, thinking they made a claw-type extractor from what I was reading. I spoke with (name lost to history) on the phone after this email:
*************************************************************************
Norm,
I suspect your extractor was just a defective one from the get go. Depending on what type it is, some are better than others. Savage originally used a copper berylium extractor that were cast until about 2007, when the material was hard to get. Because they were cast in gangs, some were not as sharp on the edges as others and dependant on the caliber configuration of the rifle, some were inconsistant on extraction.
When the material got scarce, they had to have the extractors machined from steel to have uninterruped production. These extractors were machined closer to print specifications and worked well, but the cost was slightly more. In the mean time they worked with another vendor to create parts at their price point, and since the extractors have been manufactured by metal injection molding (MIM).
I went to the link you provided and I must say sometimes there is alot of incomplete and misinformation on the net. Let me explain.
The PPC extractor that we no longer manufacture, was for a specific purpose that was not really revealed in that article. The 6 PPC is based on a .220 russian case which has a case head diameter of .440", same as a 7.62x 39. The extractor was made with a longer lip to work with a .473" diameter bolt head and still grab a .440" case. These worked best when the ejector was removed, so you could pluck the cases out by hand, something that most benchresters do anyway.
Someone got the bright idea that the longer extractor could also solve ejection issues usually asssociated with short cases, but failed to realize that a longer extractor will not nessecarily snap over a rim. This misunderstanding caused some grief on my part and I opted to discontinue the extractor and offer the correct diameter bolt head for that particular caliber.
With all that out of the way, a standard extractor with an oversize detent ball will most probably cure your dilemma.
----- Original Message ----- From: Norm
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 12:56 PM
Subject: Savage 110 BA extractor failure
Less than 25 rds and about every other, sometimes every case is stuck in the chamber. I pulled the extractor and have to say it's really under engineered for the job. Gun is new, very accurate, and as sold, unreliable. I called Savage and they sent another extractor with a new spring and ball which didn't work, but then did a web search on "Savage 110 BA extractor" and found THIS: http://www.switchbarrel.com/Extractor.htm
***********************************************************************
I bought a couple of oversized extractor balls. The ones I bought are something like 25 thousandths wider than the stock ones, which keep the extractor a little more towards the center axis of the bolt, covering just a few thousandths more of the rim.
It's possible, and very likely now that I've looked into it a little more, the Hornady brass sticking is a function of THAT being the overpressure sign. The brass is too soft, not having enough elastic recoil when loaded "hot" (I was at/under max recommended loads on VV N570, H1000, Retumbo and US 869 having this problem with all three powders in OCW testing), so it sticks BEFORE other pressure signs show. Maybe. This isn't just me talking, I had some help from Ed at Central Virginia Tactical in troubleshooting this. He thought it was weird as hell too and if he hadn't had a LONG dewey cleaning rod on his truck I wouldn't have gotten more than the single stuck case.
Fast forward a few months, I'm shooting .338 LM out of a different gun (Dakota Longbow), using Lapua brass, am PAST max recommended loads, getting very good accuracy and NO stuck cases. Claw extractor helps immensely, I'm sure, but bolt lift is fine, there are NO signs of overpressure. Doing full-length resizing after annealing and I'm BARELY trimming any brass from the mouth getting cases back to 2.714" It's good brass.
I'd try the Lapua brass first, the rims seem to be wider (base is wider) relative to the Hornady brass, maybe find a slightly larger detent ball and keep shooting.
Hope this helps.
Several issues may come into play here.
I just sold a Savage 110 BA myself. An accurate enough gun (about 1/3-1/2 MOA in load testing), the "ergonomics" weren't working for me. I WAS having the stuck case problem too, but thought it was due to pushing the loads too fast/hot, even though the cases and primers weren't showing any other signs of overpressure like cratering, flattening of the primers or ejector marks on the base.
I was using Hornady brass, too. First weird thing was getting the right shell holder. I found out later that the Hornady brass would fit in ONE size, but the Lapua brass was too big at the rim to fit the same shell holder.
Thinking it might be the extractor popping over the rim, I contacted Savage customer service who sent me a new extractor/ball/spring set. Didn't help. I "googled" the problem (Savage case extraction were the search terms, IIRC), and found sharpshooters supply.com in Delphos, OH, thinking they made a claw-type extractor from what I was reading. I spoke with (name lost to history) on the phone after this email:
*************************************************************************
Norm,
I suspect your extractor was just a defective one from the get go. Depending on what type it is, some are better than others. Savage originally used a copper berylium extractor that were cast until about 2007, when the material was hard to get. Because they were cast in gangs, some were not as sharp on the edges as others and dependant on the caliber configuration of the rifle, some were inconsistant on extraction.
When the material got scarce, they had to have the extractors machined from steel to have uninterruped production. These extractors were machined closer to print specifications and worked well, but the cost was slightly more. In the mean time they worked with another vendor to create parts at their price point, and since the extractors have been manufactured by metal injection molding (MIM).
I went to the link you provided and I must say sometimes there is alot of incomplete and misinformation on the net. Let me explain.
The PPC extractor that we no longer manufacture, was for a specific purpose that was not really revealed in that article. The 6 PPC is based on a .220 russian case which has a case head diameter of .440", same as a 7.62x 39. The extractor was made with a longer lip to work with a .473" diameter bolt head and still grab a .440" case. These worked best when the ejector was removed, so you could pluck the cases out by hand, something that most benchresters do anyway.
Someone got the bright idea that the longer extractor could also solve ejection issues usually asssociated with short cases, but failed to realize that a longer extractor will not nessecarily snap over a rim. This misunderstanding caused some grief on my part and I opted to discontinue the extractor and offer the correct diameter bolt head for that particular caliber.
With all that out of the way, a standard extractor with an oversize detent ball will most probably cure your dilemma.
----- Original Message ----- From: Norm
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 12:56 PM
Subject: Savage 110 BA extractor failure
Less than 25 rds and about every other, sometimes every case is stuck in the chamber. I pulled the extractor and have to say it's really under engineered for the job. Gun is new, very accurate, and as sold, unreliable. I called Savage and they sent another extractor with a new spring and ball which didn't work, but then did a web search on "Savage 110 BA extractor" and found THIS: http://www.switchbarrel.com/Extractor.htm
***********************************************************************
I bought a couple of oversized extractor balls. The ones I bought are something like 25 thousandths wider than the stock ones, which keep the extractor a little more towards the center axis of the bolt, covering just a few thousandths more of the rim.
It's possible, and very likely now that I've looked into it a little more, the Hornady brass sticking is a function of THAT being the overpressure sign. The brass is too soft, not having enough elastic recoil when loaded "hot" (I was at/under max recommended loads on VV N570, H1000, Retumbo and US 869 having this problem with all three powders in OCW testing), so it sticks BEFORE other pressure signs show. Maybe. This isn't just me talking, I had some help from Ed at Central Virginia Tactical in troubleshooting this. He thought it was weird as hell too and if he hadn't had a LONG dewey cleaning rod on his truck I wouldn't have gotten more than the single stuck case.
Fast forward a few months, I'm shooting .338 LM out of a different gun (Dakota Longbow), using Lapua brass, am PAST max recommended loads, getting very good accuracy and NO stuck cases. Claw extractor helps immensely, I'm sure, but bolt lift is fine, there are NO signs of overpressure. Doing full-length resizing after annealing and I'm BARELY trimming any brass from the mouth getting cases back to 2.714" It's good brass.
I'd try the Lapua brass first, the rims seem to be wider (base is wider) relative to the Hornady brass, maybe find a slightly larger detent ball and keep shooting.
Hope this helps.
Re: savage 110 fcp-hs 338 shell sticking
I guess it is just the nature of the beast.. I have shot Factory Lapua, Hornady and HSM Loaded on Lapua through my TRG without issues but I realize different rifles have different preferences.. If you are looking for some once fired Lapua and Hornady IM me..
Rick
I guess it is just the nature of the beast.. I have shot Factory Lapua, Hornady and HSM Loaded on Lapua through my TRG without issues but I realize different rifles have different preferences.. If you are looking for some once fired Lapua and Hornady IM me..
Rick
Re: savage 110 fcp-hs 338 shell sticking
Been there done that bought the t-shirt, go with Lapua brass and don't look back. Hornady is too soft and grows too much after being fired in a high pressure chamber like 338 Lapua. I was able to get Hornady handloads to work ok with RL-25 just not the factory Hornady 285gr loads. Even the handloads expanded too much and would require a full length resize after each shot, to hell with that shooting is supposed to be fun : )
Been there done that bought the t-shirt, go with Lapua brass and don't look back. Hornady is too soft and grows too much after being fired in a high pressure chamber like 338 Lapua. I was able to get Hornady handloads to work ok with RL-25 just not the factory Hornady 285gr loads. Even the handloads expanded too much and would require a full length resize after each shot, to hell with that shooting is supposed to be fun : )
Re: savage 110 fcp-hs 338 shell sticking
I have fired 21 Hornady 285s and all have stuck in the chamber. I fired 10 Lapua rounds and they came out smooth as glass. When I talked to Hornady they said it was a gun issue not a problem with their brass. Makes more sense to me that its poor brass if the Lapua rounds work without a hint of a problem.
I have fired 21 Hornady 285s and all have stuck in the chamber. I fired 10 Lapua rounds and they came out smooth as glass. When I talked to Hornady they said it was a gun issue not a problem with their brass. Makes more sense to me that its poor brass if the Lapua rounds work without a hint of a problem.
Re: savage 110 fcp-hs 338 shell sticking
Snax90, that's about right they all want to point fingers. My buddy has a TRG42 he can cycle the factory Hornady 285gr loads all day long.
Snax90, that's about right they all want to point fingers. My buddy has a TRG42 he can cycle the factory Hornady 285gr loads all day long.
Re: savage 110 fcp-hs 338 shell sticking
I had the same problem with my BA-110 Savage sticking both factory and reloaded hornady 285 loads. I conducted extensive testing which is in my nature as I am a Ph.D. student in applied mathematics and statistics. There are several variables working here
1. The savage chamber is tight which can be a good thing but if using loads that are too hot, may lead to stuck cartridges.
2. Hornady brass is too soft in a tight chamber to handle the pressures of max loads with the heavier bullets. I tested HSM brass hand loads and Lapua brass hand loads using 250 and 300 SMK's with the same powder work up as the Hornady. (88-94gr) RL25 for 250gr and 80-88gr for 300gr and had intermittent sticking with hornady, 1 stuck out of 40 at the max for HSM and 0 sticking for lapua. The lapua brass was substantially heavier than hornady with HSM somewhere in between.
3. I got much higher velocities with less powder. With a 250 gr. SMK and 94gr powder I got 3080 fps which exceeds the 2900 or so that the manual recommends. I got 2950 with 88gr powder RL25 +- 8 fps.
4. Hornady brass stretched the most during re sizing needing to be trimmed ALOT after the first and second firings.
I talked to Savage and their test ammo is Black Hills just FYI and they are aware of this problem.
So the results and recommendations are as follows for the stuck cartridge issue.
1. Use the best brass. Hornady brass will not handle the cup pressure of max loads well and may stick. Lapua brass will not and will last longer
2. Work up on your loads paying close attention to velocities as they are a good indicator of pressure
I had the same problem with my BA-110 Savage sticking both factory and reloaded hornady 285 loads. I conducted extensive testing which is in my nature as I am a Ph.D. student in applied mathematics and statistics. There are several variables working here
1. The savage chamber is tight which can be a good thing but if using loads that are too hot, may lead to stuck cartridges.
2. Hornady brass is too soft in a tight chamber to handle the pressures of max loads with the heavier bullets. I tested HSM brass hand loads and Lapua brass hand loads using 250 and 300 SMK's with the same powder work up as the Hornady. (88-94gr) RL25 for 250gr and 80-88gr for 300gr and had intermittent sticking with hornady, 1 stuck out of 40 at the max for HSM and 0 sticking for lapua. The lapua brass was substantially heavier than hornady with HSM somewhere in between.
3. I got much higher velocities with less powder. With a 250 gr. SMK and 94gr powder I got 3080 fps which exceeds the 2900 or so that the manual recommends. I got 2950 with 88gr powder RL25 +- 8 fps.
4. Hornady brass stretched the most during re sizing needing to be trimmed ALOT after the first and second firings.
I talked to Savage and their test ammo is Black Hills just FYI and they are aware of this problem.
So the results and recommendations are as follows for the stuck cartridge issue.
1. Use the best brass. Hornady brass will not handle the cup pressure of max loads well and may stick. Lapua brass will not and will last longer
2. Work up on your loads paying close attention to velocities as they are a good indicator of pressure
I have had the same problem with Hornady brass in my Savage ba 110. Inspection of spent casing was showing flashback around the neck thus build up of carbon in the throat of the chamber. Yesterday after firing 3 rounds I would clean the throat and eliminated this issue. I had also switched to Nosler brass to test and see it it might be a brass issue but would begin to feel that brass beginning to catch as well.
