Rifle Scopes Calibrated Optics

[Møønlight]

I am looking for a scope with a .308 Bullet Drop Compensation calibrated into the internal reticles. I know U.S. Optics sells scopes with built-in BDC based on M118 LR ballistics. I am looking for a few other scope companies that have scopes with reticles designed to match the ballistics.

With that said, if someone could be so kind as to school me up and list any companies that are doing this? An example of this is I heard you can send certain scope's into Horus reticle's and they can install this option for you, but it's pretty expesive.

I am mostly interested in companie's that sell a scope ready to go for this if possible.

Thanks,
-Moon

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: Calibrated Optics

Any mil based reticle or moa reticle can do this once you learn to use a ballistics computer like JBM.

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Calibrated Optics

Nightforce with the velocity reticles.

 

[DanGuy48]

Re: Calibrated Optics

Elcan Spectre DR

http://www.elcan.com/Experience/SuccessFiles/USSOCOM.php

 

[Møønlight]

Re: Calibrated Optics

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any mil based reticle or moa reticle can do this once you learn to use a ballistics computer like JBM. </div></div>

Wouldn't that defeat the hole purpose of what I am inquiring about...?

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: Calibrated Optics

It all depends, I am just trying to give you more purchasing options.

A standard mildot with 5 mil between the intersection and where the heavy step or line thickness changes, will take you to 600 yards with a 100y zero. In Colorado you may be able to stretch that to 700 yards. Some of the newer mil based designs don’t end at 5mil and would easily get you to 900 or even 1000. The thing to remember is as environmental data and altitude change the reticle doesn’t so even a calibrated reticle will be off once you are away from the conditions and altitude it was calibrated at. You won’t notice this much until you are shooting at distances 600 and greater. Also calibrated reticles require your rifle to be shooting at or very near the velocity it was set for. Velocity can vary from gun to gun.

While I have not owned a calibrated reticle in a rifle scope I have use several scopes with calibrated turrets which is nearly the same idea. You just dial rather than hold. The system can and does work when environmental conditions are right. The rest of the time it’s close. Keep a journal to track the differences observed at different altitudes and temperatures and you can improve either system. Because of the defined measurements of a mil or moa reticle, an online ballistic computer (like JBM) can provide this for you in advance if you know where you will be shooting and about what the temperature will be.

 

[Møønlight]

Re: Calibrated Optics

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It all depends, I am just trying to give you more purchasing options.

A standard mildot with 5 mil between the intersection and where the heavy step or line thickness changes, will take you to 600 yards with a 100y zero. In Colorado you may be able to stretch that to 700 yards. Some of the newer mil based designs don’t end at 5mil and would easily get you to 900 or even 1000. The thing to remember is as environmental data and altitude change the reticle doesn’t so even a calibrated reticle will be off once you are away from the conditions and altitude it was calibrated at. You won’t notice this much until you are shooting at distances 600 and greater. Also calibrated reticles require your rifle to be shooting at or very near the velocity it was set for. Velocity can vary from gun to gun.

While I have not owned a calibrated reticle in a rifle scope I have use several scopes with calibrated turrets which is nearly the same idea. You just dial rather than hold. The system can and does work when environmental conditions are right. The rest of the time it’s close. Keep a journal to track the differences observed at different altitudes and temperatures and you can improve either system. Because of the defined measurements of a mil or moa reticle, an online ballistic computer (like JBM) can provide this for you in advance if you know where you will be shooting and about what the temperature will be.
</div></div>

Thanks for schooling me up. I see I have a lot to learn here. The turrets would seem much more practical for changing condition's and such? Do you think it would be better to have the reticle done if you were staying in the same state area? Either way, I think it would save some math

-Sv

 

[George63]

Re: Calibrated Optics

I use a ziess Z-1000 (308 ballistic reticle), have also worked up a load for a buddy's luepold .308 ballistic turret. I have to say the reticle is easier because you tweak the magnification to match up with the load - with the turret you need to work up a load with a set velocity, so it is a little less versatile. On the flip side, with the ballistic reticle you are limited to the one magnification setting, while the bullet drop turret can be used at any magnification

for the above question the reticle system is easier to adapt for changing conditions than the turret system

also sheppard also makes some nice reticle systems

 

[Møønlight]

Re: Calibrated Optics

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use a ziess Z-1000 (308 ballistic reticle), have also worked up a load for a buddy's luepold .308 ballistic turret. I have to say the reticle is easier because you tweak the magnification to match up with the load - with the turret you need to work up a load with a set velocity, so it is a little less versatile. On the flip side, with the ballistic reticle you are limited to the one magnification setting, while the bullet drop turret can be used at any magnification

for the above question the reticle system is easier to adapt for changing conditions than the turret system

also sheppard also makes some nice reticle systems </div></div>

Thanks for the help George. I am undecided still. What would you sudgest for a .308?

-Moon

 

[Chris@InterstateGuns]

Re: Calibrated Optics

Almost and scope manufacture will offer a hold over/bullet drop/velosity reticle.

Nightforce = velocity reticles
Swarovski = BRX/BRH
Zeiss = RapidZ
Leica = ballistic reticle
Nikon = BDC
Leupold = Boone & Crocket
Burris = ballistic plex
Vortex = Dead hold BDC
Steiner/Burris = S1 Ballistic Plex
you get the point.....


Their are differences in the amount of support available for the reticle that varies with manufacturer.

I think that someone else stated above, that you will find a good MOA or Mrad reticle might give you the same desired effect.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Calibrated Optics

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cds7221</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I think that someone else stated above, that you will find a good MOA or Mrad reticle might give you the same desired effect.

</div></div>

Exactly and it won't be bullet/velocity/environmental condition specific. Change one thing that the BDC reticles are set up for and they are off. A good Mil or MOA reticle you can adjust your mil/MOA hold for any bullet/velocity.

 

[Møønlight]

Re: Calibrated Optics

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cds7221</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Almost and scope manufacture will offer a hold over/bullet drop/velosity reticle.

Nightforce = velocity reticles
Swarovski = BRX/BRH
Zeiss = RapidZ
Leica = ballistic reticle
Nikon = BDC
Leupold = Boone & Crocket
Burris = ballistic plex
Vortex = Dead hold BDC
Steiner/Burris = S1 Ballistic Plex
you get the point.....


Their are differences in the amount of support available for the reticle that varies with manufacturer.

I think that someone else stated above, that you will find a good MOA or Mrad reticle might give you the same desired effect. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cds7221</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I think that someone else stated above, that you will find a good MOA or Mrad reticle might give you the same desired effect.

</div></div>

Exactly and it won't be bullet/velocity/environmental condition specific. Change one thing that the BDC reticles are set up for and they are off. A good Mil or MOA reticle you can adjust your mil/MOA hold for any bullet/velocity. </div></div>

I suppose there is no point in any of this unless you are staying in 1 location all the time. Maybe I should just stay with the mil based scope and forget about the rest. Is there anything else out there like this I could look into?

Thanks to you all I do appreciate the education,
-Moon

 

[Chris@InterstateGuns]

Re: Calibrated Optics

Moon,

You can use the reticle anywhere. That's what I was talking about when I mentioned support for the reticle.

Just as an example, check out Swarovski and Nightforce's ballistic calculator on their web pages. You can change things like atmospherics, loads, and in Swarovski's instance even figure for different magnifications.

 

[George63]

Re: Calibrated Optics

let me give a basic rundown of BDC reticle use/ tuning

start with the BC and MV of the load
set the scope with this info per directions
zero at specified distance(550 yds for z-1000)
check and tweak/tune (adjust magnification) at the greatest span of distance you have available

if you shoot in conditions with significant changes of air density(from altitude, temp etc) then you would need to have prepared adjustments(elevation clicks and magnification setting) but each set of adjustments for air density is for all distances

this is what makes a tuned BDC system so much simpler than multiple sets of come ups for differing air density

 

[Rob01]

Re: Calibrated Optics

That must be why all the top tactical shooters use BDC reticles.

 

[2Shots]

Re: Calibrated Optics

Wow! Too funny!! I think this an example of why the big scope makers like NF spend all the time and money developing BDC reticles, there is a big market of users that want that pre calculated for them with factory ammo. It's easy! The chance of making a 1/2 to 1 moa shot in the wind, in various temperatures at a target 800+ yds away are probably slim to none, at least with an experienced op and the right loads and optics you might have a chance, but I doubt it with a BDC reticle in aways changing conditions. IMHO of course.

 

[George63]

Re: Calibrated Optics

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2shots</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow! Too funny!! I think this an example of why the big scope makers like NF spend all the time and money developing BDC reticles, there is a big market of users that want that pre calculated for them with factory ammo. It's easy! The chance of making a 1/2 to 1 moa shot in the wind, in various temperatures at a target 800+ yds away are probably slim to none, at least with an experienced op and the right loads and optics you might have a chance, but I doubt it with a BDC reticle in aways changing conditions. IMHO of course. </div></div>

if your confusing post is comparing probability of a first round hit on a 8 inch (1 moa) target at 800 yds in strong/ shifting/ variable winds with and without a BDC reticle I will say this:

even with the best experience/equipment no one has better than about 20% chance- to much time in flight for shift to move the POI away from center by more than 4 inches

if you are talking about 1/2 moa in these conditions than you are living in a fantasy world

In a realistic situation - lets say hunting at distance, from a fixed position, near dawn/dusk when wind is typically calm, the use of a well calibrated BDC only requires knowing the distance (from rangefinder or landmark) and setting the AO to take the shot - no calculations/consulting a card - saving the time before the game moves off and heat of the moment errors - increasing the likelihood of success of a hunt with a BDC vs standard scope under these conditions

under other conditions - say a walking hunt with a likelihood of an offhand shot on a briefly paused animal the BDC is too "busy" and will increase the chance of error - also there is no time to figure the distance/adjust AO etc - in this case it is better to have a simple cross hair/ fixed objective/ battle site zero/ point and shoot strategy

In other words there is no "best" solution

and ---"that" --- is why scope makers develop/offer a variety