Simple question I'm gathering parts for a custom build. I'm getting ready to order my action and can't see any reason I should order a Surgeon action over a Lawton. So my question is what does Surgeon offer that Lawton doesn't if anything? I can't justify a n extra 400 bucks if there is no reason that's a barrel.
Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
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Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scoutsout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So my question is what does Surgeon offer that Lawton doesn't if anything? </div></div>
How about starting with availability???
If you want afforable QUALITY that you can actually purchase, look at Stiller.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scoutsout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So my question is what does Surgeon offer that Lawton doesn't if anything? </div></div>
How about starting with availability???
If you want afforable QUALITY that you can actually purchase, look at Stiller.
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
Surgeon is the action everything else is measured against for a reason. Get the best you can for your build, and to me that's a Surgeon.
Surgeon is the action everything else is measured against for a reason. Get the best you can for your build, and to me that's a Surgeon.
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
Lawton would be the last one I would purchase. I have two Surgeons and they are very nice. The next will be a Bighorn. I shot one a while ago and it's one of the nicest actions I've ever seen.
Lawton would be the last one I would purchase. I have two Surgeons and they are very nice. The next will be a Bighorn. I shot one a while ago and it's one of the nicest actions I've ever seen.
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
Last I heard Lawton closed the doors. Take a look at a Bighorn.
Regards, Paul.
Last I heard Lawton closed the doors. Take a look at a Bighorn.
Regards, Paul.
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
Does anyone out there have any experience with these titanium beauties?
http://www.x-tremeshooting.com/index.php?page=X-Treme%20Ti
Does anyone out there have any experience with these titanium beauties?
http://www.x-tremeshooting.com/index.php?page=X-Treme%20Ti
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
Lawton Sr. died a few years ago and from what I understand his son ran the company into the ground. Alot of people didn't get what they ordered and QC was sketchy at best. They used to be great but since Barney died I would stay away.
I agree with Stiller for afforadable quality. Also the Surgeon RSR is a good for the money and a good bit cheaper without the integral rail and lug.
Lawton Sr. died a few years ago and from what I understand his son ran the company into the ground. Alot of people didn't get what they ordered and QC was sketchy at best. They used to be great but since Barney died I would stay away.
I agree with Stiller for afforadable quality. Also the Surgeon RSR is a good for the money and a good bit cheaper without the integral rail and lug.
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
I`d rather have a Stiller myself. I can`t see paying the extra for the Surgeon either plus I don`t like the integrated rail. I have a couple of Lawton`s and I like them alot but the company folded.
I`d rather have a Stiller myself. I can`t see paying the extra for the Surgeon either plus I don`t like the integrated rail. I have a couple of Lawton`s and I like them alot but the company folded.
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IronMaidenFan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone out there have any experience with these titanium beauties?
http://www.x-tremeshooting.com/index.php?page=X-Treme%20Ti
</div></div>
Nice actions, very light. Nice people too.
http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3344708#Post3344708
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IronMaidenFan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone out there have any experience with these titanium beauties?
http://www.x-tremeshooting.com/index.php?page=X-Treme%20Ti
Nice actions, very light. Nice people too.
http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3344708#Post3344708
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
Those Titanium actions look nice. How much are they?
Those Titanium actions look nice. How much are they?
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
I think the better question is why not a Surgeon over the Lawton
Surgeon: Pros
All Intergal, built like a tank
Great Track Record from the best shooters
Resale Value
Nothing sells on the hide easier than a Surgeon. That may be important in the long run.
I think the better question is why not a Surgeon over the Lawton
Surgeon: Pros
All Intergal, built like a tank
Great Track Record from the best shooters
Resale Value
Nothing sells on the hide easier than a Surgeon. That may be important in the long run.
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .257</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the better question is why not a Surgeon over the Lawton
Surgeon: Pros
All Intergal, built like a tank
Great Track Record from the best shooters
Resale Value
Nothing sells on the hide easier than a Surgeon. That may be important in the long run.
</div></div>
A very good point Sir. Resale should always be taken into account
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .257</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the better question is why not a Surgeon over the Lawton
Surgeon: Pros
All Intergal, built like a tank
Great Track Record from the best shooters
Resale Value
Nothing sells on the hide easier than a Surgeon. That may be important in the long run.
</div></div>
A very good point Sir. Resale should always be taken into account
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
I would say Surgeon hands down over either a Lawton or a Stiller. I have heard little positive about recent Lawton actions. A top gunsmith who frequents this site told me he has had to correct a Stiller action more than once. No thanks. I'll 'cry once' and buy the Surgeon. I own 2 Surgeon actions-a 591 and a 1086R.
I would say Surgeon hands down over either a Lawton or a Stiller. I have heard little positive about recent Lawton actions. A top gunsmith who frequents this site told me he has had to correct a Stiller action more than once. No thanks. I'll 'cry once' and buy the Surgeon. I own 2 Surgeon actions-a 591 and a 1086R.
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would say Surgeon hands down over either a Lawton or a Stiller. I have heard little positive about recent Lawton actions. A top gunsmith who frequents this site told me he has had to correct a Stiller action more than once. No thanks. I'll 'cry once' and buy the Surgeon. I own 2 Surgeon actions-a 591 and a 1086R. </div></div>
Yep, Surgeon's never have issues. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3212571#Post3212571
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would say Surgeon hands down over either a Lawton or a Stiller. I have heard little positive about recent Lawton actions. A top gunsmith who frequents this site told me he has had to correct a Stiller action more than once. No thanks. I'll 'cry once' and buy the Surgeon. I own 2 Surgeon actions-a 591 and a 1086R. </div></div>
Yep, Surgeon's never have issues. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3212571#Post3212571
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
Surgeons are great actions, no doubt. I definitely enjoy mine. However, I'll throw another option in the mix for you to think about: Defiance. I have both and from my personal preference, I'd give the Defiance just a teeny lit bit of an edge over the Surgeon. A lot of that is of course my own personal preference, as I find the Defiance a slight bit smoother and it just "feels" better to me.
Edit: "Defiance" as in GAP Templar action
Surgeons are great actions, no doubt. I definitely enjoy mine. However, I'll throw another option in the mix for you to think about: Defiance. I have both and from my personal preference, I'd give the Defiance just a teeny lit bit of an edge over the Surgeon. A lot of that is of course my own personal preference, as I find the Defiance a slight bit smoother and it just "feels" better to me.
Edit: "Defiance" as in GAP Templar action
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
All will have issues but Surgeon seems to have the least amount considering the time they have been around.
I love my 591, it's very robust and it just feels great. I would go Bighorn or Surgeon.
If you just want to meet in the middle price wise do a Bighorn, it's on par with a Surgeon but about $200-250 cheaper depending where you are pricing a Surgeon. If you did go with a Surgeon you will be very happy.
All will have issues but Surgeon seems to have the least amount considering the time they have been around.
I love my 591, it's very robust and it just feels great. I would go Bighorn or Surgeon.
If you just want to meet in the middle price wise do a Bighorn, it's on par with a Surgeon but about $200-250 cheaper depending where you are pricing a Surgeon. If you did go with a Surgeon you will be very happy.
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
I had 1 rifle built by GAP with a Surgeon action and currently have a Surgeon Scalpel. Both have worked flawlessly. I also had a GAP built rifle with a Badger action which also worked with zero issues. I have shot all 3 in tactical field matches. You can't go wrong with either.
I had 1 rifle built by GAP with a Surgeon action and currently have a Surgeon Scalpel. Both have worked flawlessly. I also had a GAP built rifle with a Badger action which also worked with zero issues. I have shot all 3 in tactical field matches. You can't go wrong with either.
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Yep, Surgeon's never have issues. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3212571#Post3212571 </div></div>
I'd rather fix an extractor issue on a Surgeon than pay for a Stiller or Lawton and have it re-trued.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Yep, Surgeon's never have issues. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3212571#Post3212571 </div></div>
I'd rather fix an extractor issue on a Surgeon than pay for a Stiller or Lawton and have it re-trued.
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would say Surgeon hands down over either a Lawton or a Stiller. I have heard little positive about recent Lawton actions. A top gunsmith who frequents this site told me he has had to correct a Stiller action more than once. No thanks. I'll 'cry once' and buy the Surgeon. I own 2 Surgeon actions-a 591 and a 1086R. </div></div>
Yep, Surgeon's never have issues. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3212571#Post3212571 </div></div>
I'll put money down that says Lawton will have more problems then a Surgeon any day of the week. It also may hurt on the fact that Lawton is no longer in business.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would say Surgeon hands down over either a Lawton or a Stiller. I have heard little positive about recent Lawton actions. A top gunsmith who frequents this site told me he has had to correct a Stiller action more than once. No thanks. I'll 'cry once' and buy the Surgeon. I own 2 Surgeon actions-a 591 and a 1086R. </div></div>
Yep, Surgeon's never have issues. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3212571#Post3212571 </div></div>
I'll put money down that says Lawton will have more problems then a Surgeon any day of the week. It also may hurt on the fact that Lawton is no longer in business.
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would say Surgeon hands down over either a Lawton or a Stiller. I have heard little positive about recent Lawton actions. A top gunsmith who frequents this site told me he has had to correct a Stiller action more than once. No thanks. I'll 'cry once' and buy the Surgeon. I own 2 Surgeon actions-a 591 and a 1086R. </div></div>
Yep, Surgeon's never have issues. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3212571#Post3212571 </div></div>
I'll put money down that says Lawton will have more problems then a Surgeon any day of the week. It also may hurt on the fact that Lawton is no longer in business. </div></div>
Not defending Lawton, but pointing out that they all have issues (even the beloved Surgeon).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would say Surgeon hands down over either a Lawton or a Stiller. I have heard little positive about recent Lawton actions. A top gunsmith who frequents this site told me he has had to correct a Stiller action more than once. No thanks. I'll 'cry once' and buy the Surgeon. I own 2 Surgeon actions-a 591 and a 1086R. </div></div>
Yep, Surgeon's never have issues. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3212571#Post3212571 </div></div>
I'll put money down that says Lawton will have more problems then a Surgeon any day of the week. It also may hurt on the fact that Lawton is no longer in business. </div></div>
Not defending Lawton, but pointing out that they all have issues (even the beloved Surgeon).
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
I have a GAP crusader with a 7000 action. I also have a Scalpel both in 308. The Surgeon has a taper that actions with ease. The lawton sometimes binds if not lubed properly. Lawton is a less expensive action. There is no comparison between the two, but I still love my Crusader.
I have a GAP crusader with a 7000 action. I also have a Scalpel both in 308. The Surgeon has a taper that actions with ease. The lawton sometimes binds if not lubed properly. Lawton is a less expensive action. There is no comparison between the two, but I still love my Crusader.
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
If I were to build on a 2 lug action I would hands down go with a Surgeon after having owned many rifles built on different actions. It is a shame what happened with Lawton after Barney passed. I too have heard less than desierable things about some Stillers but have not seen anything first hand. If you are going with a builder who has an action being made for them by Defiance you may want to look into using their action. I have seen the APA Genesis action and it is everybit as nice as a Surgeon and I am sure the GAP Templar is as well. I think there are a few others who use Defiance made actions. I would also give strong consideration to the Big Horn, they look very nice as well. Tha bad thing is you have a lot of actions to choose from and that makes it hard, the great thing is you will not go wrong with any of these choices. Good luck and enjoy!
If I were to build on a 2 lug action I would hands down go with a Surgeon after having owned many rifles built on different actions. It is a shame what happened with Lawton after Barney passed. I too have heard less than desierable things about some Stillers but have not seen anything first hand. If you are going with a builder who has an action being made for them by Defiance you may want to look into using their action. I have seen the APA Genesis action and it is everybit as nice as a Surgeon and I am sure the GAP Templar is as well. I think there are a few others who use Defiance made actions. I would also give strong consideration to the Big Horn, they look very nice as well. Tha bad thing is you have a lot of actions to choose from and that makes it hard, the great thing is you will not go wrong with any of these choices. Good luck and enjoy!
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
From my limited experience, Lawton had issues before Barney passed. In 07, I orderd a complete action with a 8week lead time. 24 weeks later it delivered and wasn't what I ordered.
The lead time wasn't really the issue, more the run-around I got on the phone and empty promises. At one time they even offered to ship me a blem.
From my limited experience, Lawton had issues before Barney passed. In 07, I orderd a complete action with a 8week lead time. 24 weeks later it delivered and wasn't what I ordered.
The lead time wasn't really the issue, more the run-around I got on the phone and empty promises. At one time they even offered to ship me a blem.
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
I just went through this process, and narrowed it down to Stiller, Surgeon and Badger Ordenance. The issues I came across are:
1. Availability
2. Availability
3. Availability
I was looking for a .338 LA based on a REM700LA to put in an AICS. Surgeon only has their XL, which doesn't fit the REM700LA AICS, and according to Jason there, they don't even have the REM700LA on the schedule or any immeadiate plans to put one on the schedule. You can't get a AICS or AX chassis for the XL according to Jason, only through Surgeon when you buy their rifle. Now I dont' have any issue with this, its their choice what to make and sell, but it did limit my options.
I taked to Russ at Stiller, and my local smith had good things to say about all 3 actions. The problem with the Stiller, is its also a 4 month wait for the next run. My smith found a Stiller action for me, so its on order. Badger Ordinance would have been my next choice.
The Bighorn is a great looking action, and I spoke with AJ who seems real upstanding. But they don't yet make one for .338...
I just went through this process, and narrowed it down to Stiller, Surgeon and Badger Ordenance. The issues I came across are:
1. Availability
2. Availability
3. Availability
I was looking for a .338 LA based on a REM700LA to put in an AICS. Surgeon only has their XL, which doesn't fit the REM700LA AICS, and according to Jason there, they don't even have the REM700LA on the schedule or any immeadiate plans to put one on the schedule. You can't get a AICS or AX chassis for the XL according to Jason, only through Surgeon when you buy their rifle. Now I dont' have any issue with this, its their choice what to make and sell, but it did limit my options.
I taked to Russ at Stiller, and my local smith had good things to say about all 3 actions. The problem with the Stiller, is its also a 4 month wait for the next run. My smith found a Stiller action for me, so its on order. Badger Ordinance would have been my next choice.
The Bighorn is a great looking action, and I spoke with AJ who seems real upstanding. But they don't yet make one for .338...
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Yep, Surgeon's never have issues. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3212571#Post3212571 </div></div>
I'd rather fix an extractor issue on a Surgeon than pay for a Stiller or Lawton and have it re-trued. </div></div>
Hi Jayman
Now I got curious. Could you elaborate on this? If you prefer , send a private message , I would like to know whats wrong.
Thanks
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Yep, Surgeon's never have issues. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3212571#Post3212571 </div></div>
I'd rather fix an extractor issue on a Surgeon than pay for a Stiller or Lawton and have it re-trued. </div></div>
Hi Jayman
Now I got curious. Could you elaborate on this? If you prefer , send a private message , I would like to know whats wrong.
Thanks
Re: Why Surgeon over Lawton for custom build?
Banard SM for a repeater
Stolle Viper for a single shot....I want to build off a viper VERY badly, and most likely will for my next rifle
Banard SM for a repeater
Stolle Viper for a single shot....I want to build off a viper VERY badly, and most likely will for my next rifle
