Rifle Scopes HDMR TEST

psinclair

psinclair

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Jul 11, 2008
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Glasgow, Montana
#1
HDMRtest003.jpg


Chomping at the bit to get this done. I was going to wait for warmer weather, but I got too impatient. It was/is cold, 0*F with 80% humidity. I wasn't far from the truck heater and hopped in every ten shots or so to warm up my hands. There was a slight wind out of the east at about 5mph. After getting my zero and checking my come-ups, I started my test. One shot at the bullseye at 100, then dial for 410M(1.9 mils)and shoot a steel plate, dial back down to 100, tweak the parallax and so on for ten shots total. It returned to zero perfectly on all 30 shots.

group001.jpg


Doesn't hurt to have a tack driving GAP rifle to conduct a little testing with. This rifle was built by Eric Reid when he worked at GA Precision back in 2007. I can blame group number three on my frozen fingers....grin! One nice thing about shooting in these temps is your barrel doesn't get very hot.

HDMRtest001.jpg


My through the scope picture didn't turn out too well but this is the plate at 410 meters I was shooting at. FWIW, it was drilled all 15 times.
 
#2
Re: HDMR TEST

thanks for the review

i know you own quite a few Schmidt's and while i dont expect a $1250 optic to have the same glass at once costing $3k or more these days

how is the glass, clarity and sight picture?
 
#3
Re: HDMR TEST

I bought a few of the first gen HDMR's with the H58 reticle in them and the glass was ok until the highest power, it got blurry at the highest power. In the latest versions I have looked though with the H59 and Tremor reticles the glass is much, much better. Is it on par with S&B glass, probably not but but everyone's notices something different so it is hard to evaluate the glass. The sight picture is very nice and it is real hard to find fault in the scope for most people's uses.
 
#5
Re: HDMR TEST

are the .1 mil markings on the edges very easy to use or do they wash out. in the pic they look tuff to define. Also any idea if there is a way to make a zero stop for one of these?? if someone would post a pic of the scope with the turret take off that would be cool. no one in my area stocks the high end bushnells sportsmans or cabelas does not. so I can't ever seem to get my hands on one.
 
#6
Re: HDMR TEST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cummins cowboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">are the .1 mil markings on the edges very easy to use or do they wash out. in the pic they look tuff to define. Also any idea if there is a way to make a zero stop for one of these?? if someone would post a pic of the scope with the turret take off that would be cool. no one in my area stocks the high end bushnells sportsmans or cabelas does not. so I can't ever seem to get my hands on one. </div></div>

The through the scope picture I posted pretty much blows....I can see the .1 marks easily all the way down to about 5X.

The quality of the glass had me shaking my head. I was amazed.
 
#8
Re: HDMR TEST

Nice review. Couple of questions. What ring height did you use to when you mounted up the scope and how did the power ring turn in the cold weather?
 
#9
Re: HDMR TEST

Waiting for rings also, I acquired a "sample/display with an H59 at the SHOT show, and can't wait to use it. I wish I would have had something to shoot with while in the desert, went sight seeing and saw plenty of coyotes just over the border in AZ.
 
#10
Re: HDMR TEST

FWIW, I got medium height Badger rings from Dustin at GA when I put in my order for the G2. I had the scope mounted today. Factory 20MOA on my FN; mounted with sufficient bell to barrel clearance. Had it out in my backyard afterwards, temp in the high 20's low to mid 30s ambient. Had no problems with turning power ring beyond what appears to be a baseline requiring surprising effort. It sure as hell won't move under recoil
laugh.gif
I'll see if I can get some pics tomorrow taken through the scope. Not sure how to post them here, but I'll give it a try when I get them.

HTH
 
#11
Re: HDMR TEST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice review. Couple of questions. What ring height did you use to when you mounted up the scope and how did the power ring turn in the cold weather? </div></div>

Badger 34MM, 1" high rings. The power ring was a little stiff, but no worse than my S&B's or Hensoldt to turn when it's cold. Same with the parallax and elevation turret.

I'm going to use the hell out of this scope the few months and see what I come up with. So far I'm pretty impressed, especially for what these are selling for. As far as George's reticle goes, I wish all of my scopes had it....
 
#12
Re: HDMR TEST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
HDMRtest001.jpg
</div></div>

If I understand how this reticle works, you could hold up to 10mils of elevation without dialing with some windage points available if needed? On a 308 or similar caliber, how many meters would this get you?
 
#16
Re: HDMR TEST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
HDMRtest001.jpg
</div></div>

If I understand how this reticle works, you could hold up to 10mils of elevation without dialing with some windage points available if needed? On a 308 or similar caliber, how many meters would this get you? </div></div>

10 mils is 1020 meters for my .308's shooting 155gr scenars at 2950fps with a 160 meter zero.
 
#17
Re: HDMR TEST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redirt78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice shooting and review. Glad to see an outdoor picture of the reticle.

PGS, what power was the scope on in that picture?

Thanks </div></div>

15X.
 
#18
Re: HDMR TEST

bunch of snow left to shovel, but thought I'd mention that, after getting my bipod attached to my FN, went to my dining room table, set the rifle on my table, and here's a cool feature of the HDMR (or not, as the case may be). While setting it up to take some pics through the scope, focused on a tree about 50 yards or so up in our backyard, unless I head my shooting eye absolutely squared away at the eyepiece, so that I had a perfectly full field, the chromatic aberration and purple/yellow fringing, mostly at 14x and up, was HUGE. Move my eye just a bit, and it all disappeared. I'd be interested in whether or not any of the rest of you all have had this experience. FWIW, the tree is set against a snow covered hill, and that is likely to accentuate the color aberrations.
 
#19
Re: HDMR TEST

Great review and I wish I had a local place to try 400 yards. Picked my HDMR from GAP and talked with Dustin who is the latest addition to the GAP team. Nice guy and very helpful! He gave me the dime tour of the GAP facilities.
 
#20
Re: HDMR TEST

PGS....10 mils is 1020 meters for my .308's shooting 155gr scenars at 2950fps with a 160 meter zero. [/quote said:
Thanks Pat....I'm thinking this could be pretty handy for hunting...no dialing for elevation at normal hunting ranges. Be interested in hearing if the reticle retains good visibility in lower light hunting situations or if a darker background makes it tough to read.
Click to expand...
 
#21
Re: HDMR TEST

We have experienced the same issue with 2 separate HDMR's. Granted there is snow on the ground and it is overcast. Very obvious at 400 yards on black cows and on white steel at 1000. The other issue I have noticed is head position is CRITICAL as is parallax adjustment. The eye releif and and sight picture are great, but your head better be centered.

And a personal preference...the parallax adjust backwards...

Next on the list is to find out if the sunshade threads will take one of the 50mm objectives that USO makes an ARD for...

0<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: copdoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..... unless I head my shooting eye absolutely squared away at the eyepiece, so that I had a perfectly full field, the chromatic aberration and purple/yellow fringing, mostly at 14x and up, was HUGE. Move my eye just a bit, and it all disappeared...... FWIW, the tree is set against a snow covered hill, and that is likely to accentuate the color aberrations.</div></div>
 
#22
Re: HDMR TEST

Do you think the aberrations indicate a defective scope?

Edit: I have a pretty good collection of Nikon photography lenses, manual focus and autofocus, covering the range from 24/f2 to 135/f2. If any one of these had shown this degree of CA and PF, I'd have sent it back.

OTOH, the appearance of the CA and the PF while sighting in clearly indicates that my head is off-center, and, to the extent to which it is, if that affects accuracy, then those color aberrations are striking piece of feedback to get my eye back in the center. All that said, the FOV is superb, and the reticle looks like a winner. Tuesday coming is supposed to be 60 degrees here, so I'm gonna head over to the range and give it a try
smile.gif
 
#25
Re: HDMR TEST

I just got one of these scopes with the Tremor2 reticle. Unfortunately, there is no manual to tell you what the millings are (contacting Horus for more info, will share) but it's a very VERY nice scope for the money.

Thanks for sharing your review!
 
#29
Re: HDMR TEST

My experience with the Bushnell, it's optics as well as the parallax were completely unacceptable this price range. My friend and I took his HDMR out to our competition this past weekend to look through it because it was not mounted in a rifle yet. We steadied on the bench while looking at our targets downrange so we could compare it to his Vortex PST and my S&B. Upon observing at full 21x power, we noticed extreme chromatic aberration in which the white targets had a huge blue "shadow" above every target as well as the edges. Also, as we adjusted the parallax, we noticed that it would NOT focus at 1000 yards while on full power. The most we could get focused was 800 yards, and that was just barely. It would focus when you took the power down to 18x, but not any higher. The likes, I liked the feel of the turrets and even the locking turret. The clicks were positive, and solid. I also really like the glass below 18x power. It was clear and sharp up until above 18x. This scope also feels like it is built like a tank.

For $1399, the above problems should not be present. For instance, the Vortex PST in my opinion outperforms this particular HDMR in everything we've seen so far. Based on that the PST tracks flawlessly, so it can only be just as good in terms of tracking, and the optics in the HDMR made it unusable on full power past 700 yards...not to mention the PST is half the price. The only grounds the HDMR wins in is the HDMR is very compact, and I could flatten the PST by hitting it with the HDMR.

Disclaimer: My friend is sending the scope back to be inspected or replaced...so we're hoping it was just a lemon because we were both really excited for the release of the HDMR.
 
#30
Re: HDMR TEST

I took my scope out and I dont have any of the problems mentioned above. I've read about someone having those problems here on the hide besides you and he sent his scope to bushnell, got it back in perfect condition. Maybe you just got a lemon.
 
#31
Re: HDMR TEST

my only complaint is for a 34mm tube, its a bit low on elevation... i think it like 90 MOA or so... comparing it to the razor or SWFA at 120.. but for normal people that may be fine.. but since i have access to a 1 mile range, lots of adjustment is handy...
 
#32
Re: HDMR TEST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oham1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I took my scope out and I dont have any of the problems mentioned above. I've read about someone having those problems here on the hide besides you and he sent his scope to bushnell, got it back in perfect condition. Maybe you just got a lemon. </div></div>

The scope remau308 is referring to is mine. I think it is just a lemon. Its to be expected when a new product comes out. Im sure Bushnell will take care of it for me. Under 700-800 yards is works great, but you can definitely see a nice blue outline of the white targets we use at Hardrock. I passed the scope around to several shooters out there that were all interested in this new scope. No one could get the targets focused enough at those ranges.
I am waiting on my Spuhr to come in from Bigjoe's group buy so I could run my S&B and used my SFP Vortex PST. I cant say enough good about the PST. I honestly thought it would not return to zero since I cranked so much on the knobs, but It did great and I could see my hits at 1000 at 24x with no probs at all. I noticed many other guys out there were running PSTs and had the same compliments on the scope.

I Do love the adjustments on the HDMR and the GAP reticle is sweet. Shooting at closer ranges I might have never noticed a problem, but at 800 and beyond everyone kept trying to turn the side parallax knob, but it was maxed out at infinity.
 
#33
Re: HDMR TEST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My experience with the Bushnell, it's optics as well as the parallax were completely unacceptable this price range. My friend and I took his HDMR out to our competition this past weekend to look through it because it was not mounted in a rifle yet. We steadied on the bench while looking at our targets downrange so we could compare it to his Vortex PST and my S&B. Upon observing at full 21x power, we noticed extreme chromatic aberration in which the white targets had a huge blue "shadow" above every target as well as the edges. Also, as we adjusted the parallax, we noticed that it would NOT focus at 1000 yards while on full power. The most we could get focused was 800 yards, and that was just barely. It would focus when you took the power down to 18x, but not any higher. The likes, I liked the feel of the turrets and even the locking turret. The clicks were positive, and solid. I also really like the glass below 18x power. It was clear and sharp up until above 18x. This scope also feels like it is built like a tank.

For $1399, the above problems should not be present. For instance, the Vortex PST in my opinion outperforms this particular HDMR in everything we've seen so far. Based on that the PST tracks flawlessly, so it can only be just as good in terms of tracking, and the optics in the HDMR made it unusable on full power past 700 yards...not to mention the PST is half the price. The only grounds the HDMR wins in is the HDMR is very compact, and I could flatten the PST by hitting it with the HDMR.

Disclaimer: My friend is sending the scope back to be inspected or replaced...so we're hoping it was just a lemon because we were both really excited for the release of the HDMR.</div></div>

I just got my HDMR replacement from Bushnell. It is perfect, at least when tested under the same conditions as the original one. I'll be mounting it in the next couple days to test it further, but I can say that the one I sent back was defective right out of the box. It was among the first run of 200 and I had gotten it by way of GAP's group buy. It had the same phenomenon yours appears to have had. Folks at Bushnell customer service are in my experience absolutely first rate.

HTH,

tony
 
#34
Re: HDMR TEST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: copdoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My experience with the Bushnell, it's optics as well as the parallax were completely unacceptable this price range. My friend and I took his HDMR out to our competition this past weekend to look through it because it was not mounted in a rifle yet. We steadied on the bench while looking at our targets downrange so we could compare it to his Vortex PST and my S&B. Upon observing at full 21x power, we noticed extreme chromatic aberration in which the white targets had a huge blue "shadow" above every target as well as the edges. Also, as we adjusted the parallax, we noticed that it would NOT focus at 1000 yards while on full power. The most we could get focused was 800 yards, and that was just barely. It would focus when you took the power down to 18x, but not any higher. The likes, I liked the feel of the turrets and even the locking turret. The clicks were positive, and solid. I also really like the glass below 18x power. It was clear and sharp up until above 18x. This scope also feels like it is built like a tank.

For $1399, the above problems should not be present. For instance, the Vortex PST in my opinion outperforms this particular HDMR in everything we've seen so far. Based on that the PST tracks flawlessly, so it can only be just as good in terms of tracking, and the optics in the HDMR made it unusable on full power past 700 yards...not to mention the PST is half the price. The only grounds the HDMR wins in is the HDMR is very compact, and I could flatten the PST by hitting it with the HDMR.

Disclaimer: My friend is sending the scope back to be inspected or replaced...so we're hoping it was just a lemon because we were both really excited for the release of the HDMR.</div></div>

I just got my HDMR replacement from Bushnell. It is perfect, at least when tested under the same conditions as the original one. I'll be mounting it in the next couple days to test it further, but I can say that the one I sent back was defective right out of the box. It was among the first run of 200 and I had gotten it by way of GAP's group buy. It had the same phenomenon yours appears to have had. Folks at Bushnell customer service are in my experience absolutely first rate.

HTH,

tony </div></div>


Tony PMsent
 
#38
Re: HDMR TEST

Just got two HDMRs in from Horus with the Tremor2 recticle.They both are showing extreme purple and yellow chromatic abberations at 15x and beyond.If I call Steve Hanna at Bushnell will he replace both optics?Thanks
 
#39
Re: HDMR TEST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TexasReaperM40</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just got two HDMRs in from Horus with the Tremor2 recticle.They both are showing extreme purple and yellow chromatic abberations at 15x and beyond.If I call Steve Hanna at Bushnell will he replace both optics?Thanks</div></div>

I'd love to hear more about this! Were you able to get them replaced? Being colorblind, I'm not confident that I'm actually able to detect chromatic aberrations myself. Has anyone else experienced this issue in their HDMR?
 
#40
Re: HDMR TEST

See my post above. The G2 I got from the Group Buy from GAP had this problem. I talked first with Dustin who sent me to Bushnell and I had a replacement in a little over a week. So, far I've not seen any CA problems at all, though we have not had any snow against the background of which the CA was most apparent.

HTH, tony
 
#41
Re: HDMR TEST

FWIW, I just mounted my HDMR w/ T2 reticle on my FN TSR. Really, really bright day out, hard sun and clear blue sky where I am
smile.gif
With an off-gray colored target, there was and a bit of CA or purple fringing and no yellow ring around the FOV at any power beginning with 21x. Supposed to snow a bit overnight so I'll get to check it out tomorrow AM with that as a backdrop.
 
#43
Re: HDMR TEST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wizdumb</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TexasReaperM40</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just got two HDMRs in from Horus with the Tremor2 recticle.They both are showing extreme purple and yellow chromatic abberations at 15x and beyond.If I call Steve Hanna at Bushnell will he replace both optics?Thanks</div></div>

I'd love to hear more about this! Were you able to get them replaced? Being colorblind, I'm not confident that I'm actually able to detect chromatic aberrations myself. Has anyone else experienced this issue in their HDMR? </div></div>

I just got back from the range with my HDMR I bought through the group buy. I mounted it to the rifle last night, since I just received the 34MM rings yesterday. I zeroed it on the rifle this morning.
I was only able to shoot at 100 yards in a partially enclosed range. I noticed some blue fringe around the edges of my white target paper. I was shooting at 8"X11" white printer paper mounted on brown cardboard. It was overcast. I will need to get out with it and test it some more at different yardages/ objects, but it does have me concerned. I don't see this in my Nightforce or IOR.
 
#44
Re: HDMR TEST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jpspeeddemon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">do the turrets have revolution indicators/numbers so u know which rev you're on? I saw a video of one that didn't have any. </div></div>

Yes, the turret base has horizontal hashes. My scope's 100 yd. zero is at the 3rd hash mark. I can spin up or down and can easily return to my original zero when I'm back at the 3rd hash mark and on "0" on the turret .
 
#45
Re: HDMR TEST

My HDMR has nearly 34 mils of elevation adjustment. At first I thought I wasn't counting correctly but that is what it has mechanically anyway. I haven't shot it at the extremes to check for actual movement of the impact point.
 
#46
Re: HDMR TEST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TxShooter63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My HDMR has nearly 34 mils of elevation adjustment. At first I thought I wasn't counting correctly but that is what it has mechanically anyway. I haven't shot it at the extremes to check for actual movement of the impact point. </div></div>

That's funny. Yesterday, I was counting my total elevation also and came up close to the the same number. I was also scratching my head. My 100 yard zero came to 15 Mils up from bottom, using a 20 MOA base ( I was a bit disappointed). Mechanically, I still have 18.5 Mils of upward travel left in the turret. A total of 33.5 Mils.

I attached my Leupold collimator to the scope and it tracks from bottom, all the way up to 33.5 Mils.
 
#48
Re: HDMR TEST

FWIW,

snowed pretty good over night. set scope up on rifle on dining room table, cleared the weapon, bolt back, opened sliding glass door, sighted in at 21x on the tree up in the back. GRRRRR Purple fringing along one edge of tree trunk, yellow on the other edge; all branches were also "fringed." Mind, however, this was not nearly as serious as my first copy, but it clearly is NOT good to go, under these optical conditions. Just to make sure, I have two Zeiss photography lenses, a 50mm and 100mm, both with f2 apertures. Not a whit's worth of any fringing, 50mm is a 1300 lens.

I'll be talking Monday with Steve Hanna. This one's gonna have to be replaced, though I feel badly in a way because under normal shooting conditions, I didn't see any fringing at all, so that's the last info he's gotten from me
frown.gif
And damn, I like this scope!!! Turrets, click sound and feel, turrets, and yes the Horus reticle
laugh.gif


I'd recommend that any of you all who are having this kind of problem to give Bushnell Performance Optics a call and talk with Steve.

tony
 
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