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Hunting & Fishing .45 enough for a bear?

G

ghostdog

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 21, 2009
101
0
McLean, VA
#1
So I'm going moose hunting in Alaska in September and I have to bring along a sidearm in case we come across bears or wolves etc. I've been doing this for a few years and my first year I brought a .50 Desert Eagle because someone told me you could never have emough gun against a bear. Each year I down size a little and I've taken to carry a .45. Now I'm starting to wonder if .45 is enough. I'm thinking of going up to 10mm EAA Witness with 15 in the mag. Now remember, we're talking about an Alaskan Grizzly Bear, the largest of the subspecies.

As a sidenote I've heard that self defense/hollowpoint ammo is not the way to go. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
 
#3
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

I've been told the same regarding the .45ACP inadequacy against bears, but I'm guessing it's better than nothing?? I'd think a .44 MAG or a .454 Casual would be better suited for your purpose.
 
#4
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

9mm and 45 ACP will penetrate 9-12 inches, less if you hit bone. Bears have slow heart rates. If you don't break something critical (like a spine) you run the risk of getting mauled and rendered.

A hiker defended his wife and himself within the last year with a 1911, shooting 9 rounds. Park Rangers found the bear approximately 200-250 yards from the shooting site.

Another bear/moose thread here: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...642#Post3447642
 
#5
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I'm going moose hunting in Alaska in September and I have to bring along a sidearm in case we come across bears or wolves etc.</div></div>

Why not just use the rifle you have for moose, I bet it would do better then a 45acp.

I never could understand the ideal of backing up a rifle with a pistol for dangerous game.
 
#7
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I'm going moose hunting in Alaska in September and I have to bring along a sidearm in case we come across bears or wolves etc.</div></div>

Why not just use the rifle you have for moose, I bet it would do better then a 45acp.

I never could understand the ideal of backing up a rifle with a pistol for dangerous game.

</div></div>

Good advice right there.

The best thing you could take along would be a really fat and slow hunting partner.
 
#8
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

I have hunted Ak for over 8 years and I too was concerned about bear protection. I started with a 44 mag and progressed to a 500 s&w. The problem was that I was carring a pistol that weighed as much as a carbine. After 8 years of hunting, i never had to use the handgun but i carried one until i went hunting for mtn goat. I now use a 10mm but I do not always carry it. For me, the pistol is my last defense for a bear attack while I am hooched up. Like the comment above, Use your rifle! FWIW, I think the 45 fits the "under the pillow" requirments for bear protection while you try to get some sleep. IMO the nights in Alaska are when you start to worry about bears.
 
#9
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

+1 on using a rifle; it always packs a much bigger punch than a handgun.

Some of the guys I have fished with carry a short-barreled pump shotgun when salmon fishing; another carries a Marlin Guide Gun carbine in .45-70 with Garrett cartridges, I think.

If you like carrying a handgun, you might consider the .460 Rowland conversion that reportedly gives .44 Magnum performance from a 1911 platform: .460 Rowland Conversion
 
#10
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I'm going moose hunting in Alaska in September and I have to bring along a sidearm in case we come across bears or wolves etc.</div></div>

Why not just use the rifle you have for moose, I bet it would do better then a 45acp.

I never could understand the ideal of backing up a rifle with a pistol for dangerous game.

</div></div>

Good advice right there.

The best thing you could take along would be a really fat and slow hunting partner. </div></div>

Haha. I might have to call up some of my "gravitationally challenged" friends and invite them along. Don't misunderstand me though, if I have my rifle on me I'm gonna shoot it first with that but I might not have easy access to it all the time. If some grizzly mistakes my tent for a burrito in the middle of the night I will need something fast.
 
#16
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

This subject gets brought up every now and then. Let me base my opinions on a few encounters that have happened here in the last few years.
Two guys were fishing the Russian River here on the Kenai Peninsula, they spooked a brown bear sow with cubs. Shotty guy threw his weapon down and ran like a bitch, 9mm semi-auto guy popped her between the running lights and killed her dead. She was charging and he managed a well aimed shot.

A feller I served in the Corps with was hunting moose while carrying a 30'06 and a 44 mag. He surprised a brownie on a moose kill and the bear charged. He got off 2 rifle shots to no avail. The bear took him down and gnawed on him, meanwhile he got his 44 out and shot the bear off of him. He'll always bear the scars but I guarandamntee you he believes in his 44 mag. The bear left and was never found.

My brother shot a black bear from 15 yds with his rifle. The bear was hit well but charged anyway. My bro backpedaled and fell down. He unlimbered my 45 ACP and shot the bear while it was attempting to remove his foot. Dead bear.

Next story you can read here---> http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2387287

IMO, it never hurts to carry the largest bore pistol you can quickly and accurately deploy. Don't carry one you are afraid of. 5 good hits with a 9mm beat a whiff with a 50 S&W anyday.

The 9mm dude carried/practiced with his on a regular basis. It worked for him. The guide in the linked story had a cannon and it worked as well. He was able to get shots on target. Heavy, hard bullets work best. Forget about hollow points and always have a primary weapon that you can depend on. IMO, in the subject of bear defense, a handgun is not a primary weapon.

If moose or caribou hunting it behooves a guy to carry a rifle capable of taking down a brownie with authority. The 30 cal magnums are OK but marginal, the use of excellent expanding weight retaining bullets such as Barnes TSX and TTSX in the 30 cals will improve your luck greatly. 338 Win Mag and 375 H&H are fairly popular up here with the emphasis on 338. A lot of hunters are too spooky to go heavier.

So to sum it up, use the biggest rifle and handgun you can shoot quickly and accurately without worrying about recoil or having it affect your shooting abilities.

Disclaimer: These are only my opinions and may vary widely from the vast majority of American hunters.
smile.gif
 
#17
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LegioX</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This subject gets brought up every now and then. Let me base my opinions on a few encounters that have happened here in the last few years.
Two guys were fishing the Russian River here on the Kenai Peninsula, they spooked a brown bear sow with cubs. Shotty guy threw his weapon down and ran like a bitch, 9mm semi-auto guy popped her between the running lights and killed her dead. She was charging and he managed a well aimed shot.

A feller I served in the Corps with was hunting moose while carrying a 30'06 and a 44 mag. He surprised a brownie on a moose kill and the bear charged. He got off 2 rifle shots to no avail. The bear took him down and gnawed on him, meanwhile he got his 44 out and shot the bear off of him. He'll always bear the scars but I guarandamntee you he believes in his 44 mag. The bear left and was never found.

My brother shot a black bear from 15 yds with his rifle. The bear was hit well but charged anyway. My bro backpedaled and fell down. He unlimbered my 45 ACP and shot the bear while it was attempting to remove his foot. Dead bear.

Next story you can read here---> http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2387287

IMO, it never hurts to carry the largest bore pistol you can quickly and accurately deploy. Don't carry one you are afraid of. 5 good hits with a 9mm beat a whiff with a 50 S&W anyday.

The 9mm dude carried/practiced with his on a regular basis. It worked for him. The guide in the linked story had a cannon and it worked as well. He was able to get shots on target. Heavy, hard bullets work best. Forget about hollow points and always have a primary weapon that you can depend on. IMO, in the subject of bear defense, a handgun is not a primary weapon.

If moose or caribou hunting it behooves a guy to carry a rifle capable of taking down a brownie with authority. The 30 cal magnums are OK but marginal, the use of excellent expanding weight retaining bullets such as Barnes TSX and TTSX in the 30 cals will improve your luck greatly. 338 Win Mag and 375 H&H are fairly popular up here with the emphasis on 338. A lot of hunters are too spooky to go heavier.

So to sum it up, use the biggest rifle and handgun you can shoot quickly and accurately without worrying about recoil or having it affect your shooting abilities.

Disclaimer: These are only my opinions and may vary widely from the vast majority of American hunters.
smile.gif
</div></div>

Damn. Those are some interesting stories. Thanks.
 
#18
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

I love my 45acp and decide to make it work for California Bears ( far smaller than Alaska Bears) and pigs

I got 45 Super Brass.

Added a recoil buffer type guide rod for 10mm and heavier springs to tame recoil.

Used Power Pistol Powder

230 Copper Plated Round Nose

I run the 230s at 1000 fps and they hit hard and group well. I know I could push harder but I dont want to beat frame anymore than have to. This is not a load I would shoot for fun but it kills well.

For Alaska I thing I would wnat 45/70 guide gun and no pistol smaller than 44 Mag
 
#19
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

Use the rifle. If the bear disarms you of your rifle then use whatever magnum caliber revolver you have on your hip.....and since he was close enough to take your rifle away, shoot all six!
smile.gif
 
#21
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

You can do a 460 rowland conversion to your 1911 and it'll be plenty for bear. It's roughly a $300 upgrade to your gun, that you can pull your barrel and put your regular 45 acp back into play.

Brownells has the kit or look at clark's custom guns.

I've just ordered a kit meself.

Cheers,
Breeze
 
#22
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

I lived in AK for 8+ years and the 10mm was starting to get some interest. The concept was based on it being a backup first and foremost, 15 quick shots, good hard cast lead loads being available for deep penetration, and the ability to shoot one handed if needed.

If I was still up there it would be what I would look at.

Charlie
 
#24
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

Nope. Lived there for 2 years when I was 20-22 and always carried an 18 inch barrel 12 guage. Worked for fishing outfit with guys who had guided for 20+ yrs, ran remote fishcamps with videos that looked like Katmai during a busy salmon run, and guiding all the AK big game in the fall. They all made me get a good 12 gauge since I was familiar with it and it was more affordable. They said a 45-70 was a good choice, and a 44mag handgun with full loads and hard solid bullets in case everything else went wrong. These were guys who were raised in AK by parents who lived there before it was a state, ie, they had some real experience to base their opinions on. A good family friend who lived in the bush until a few years ago has killed more bears with a 12 guage than all other firearms combined. Just what I have learned by people I consider smart and very experienced.
 
#25
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ghostdog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does the .460 Rowland conversion kit come with a magazine? How many rounds does the magazeine hold?</div></div>

You use your regular magazines. The .460 Rowland case is just a bit longer than the .45 ACP to prevent the high pressure cartridges from chambering in an unmodified barrel.
 
#26
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

The only thing that stop a charging bear is another bear.

On a more serious note I have seen a conversion kit for the Glock 20 or 21 to swap uppers for a .50 cal.
 
#27
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWYI</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> never could understand the ideal of backing up a rifle with a pistol for dangerous game. </div></div>

A sidearm is effectually a false sense of security in bear country. Although as mentioned it could be effective as a last resort, you would be much better served with a 12 gauge and slugs. Of course carrying a shotgun along with a rifle, or while in camp, or in the middle of a fishing stream is pretty much impractical. If you HAD to use handgun in defense of a bear attack you would want as suggested a .454 Casul or a SW .50 cal. but they take training to shoot effectively and are heavy to carry...........just like your .50 DE. Just take your .45 as while a bear attack is real in the backcountry it is also a very remote possibility and in the end having it on your hip will make you feel more secure and you can relax and enjoy your hunt.
 
#31
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Will</div><div class="ubbcode-body">45 ACP will work fine ... pop your partner in Knee and then all you got to do is distance yourself from the mayhem !! Oh crap, would I really do that ??!! heh heh heh </div></div>

Haha. That's messed up.
 
#33
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

What unit are you headed to? Just curious...

I used to pack a .454 Casull for the toothy critters when I didn't feel like lugging a long gun. Now, I just carry a 22" 338wm with irons and 275gr pills when I'm out and about and not hunting. Handguns can be really nice if your wanting to have a firearm with you, but also need to have your hands free to work. If your going to carry one, I would lean towards something of the .44mag, 454 casull flavor. It's got plenty of wallop and is also benign enough that most can learn to shoot them well. I'm sure the 45acp is better than nothing, but it certainly wouldn't be my first choice. My first choice will always be a long gun unless completely impractical. Just my .02.

Enjoy your trip this fall. (I hope this is legible, I'm having trouble keeping my eyes open. It must be time to hit the rack.)
 
#34
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ykrvak</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What unit are you headed to? Just curious...

I used to pack a .454 Casull for the toothy critters when I didn't feel like lugging a long gun. Now, I just carry a 22" 338wm with irons and 275gr pills when I'm out and about and not hunting. Handguns can be really nice if your wanting to have a firearm with you, but also need to have your hands free to work. If your going to carry one, I would lean towards something of the .44mag, 454 casull flavor. It's got plenty of wallop and is also benign enough that most can learn to shoot them well. I'm sure the 45acp is better than nothing, but it certainly wouldn't be my first choice. My first choice will always be a long gun unless completely impractical. Just my .02.

Enjoy your trip this fall. (I hope this is legible, I'm having trouble keeping my eyes open. It must be time to hit the rack.) </div></div>

I think it's Unit 20. I fly up there once a year to moose hunt with my buddy. We're going about 60 miles NE of Fairbanks up the Chena River. We take a bush plane out and float hunt all the way back to Fairbanks. It's the highlight of my year.
 
#35
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

Sounds like a good time. Do you fly into Van Curler's (sp) on the east fork? I've done some stomping around in that neck of the woods although it's been a while. The leaves have started to change a bit out my way and it's been raining like crazy. Must mean moose season is right around the corner. Again, good luck and enjoy your trip.
 
#36
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

I spend a ton of time in the bush, weight is the biggest factor. Personally, I carry a 10MM, it's light, holds lots of rounds, easy to shoot. Remember, the pistol is for when he is on top of you, it's the last thing before you go for your knife! Try shooting a 500 or a 460 one handed. Personally, I think the 45 is just a bit slow, but it's better then nothing.
 
#37
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

I wonder if anyone ever defended themselves against a BIG bear with a handgun at contact range and ended up stuck under a dead 1000 pound hunk of meat?

In that case I would rather suffocate under it's carcass knowing I foiled the attempt to eat me that be eaten alive.

Or even worse, getting stuck under the dead bear only to have another bear come bye and eat you.
 
#38
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

I would take no less than a 44mag or 10mm. I would be very tempted to take a 500 S&W, 460 or 454 Casual. Since it sounds like you make this trip regularly, I would definitely think that it would be a worthwhile purchase. I would get them compensated so that you can shoot them and stay on target better. Get some penetrating rounds, no HP's and no lead cast. Just my $.02.
 
#39
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

My vote is for the 10mm. Easy to carry, manageable recoil with power. I know that a deer is nothing compared to an Alaskan Grizzly but I shot a whitetail at 25 yards with 180 gr. HSM brand production ammo and it dropped dead on the spot.
 
#41
Re: .45 enough for a bear?


It's interesting, but not rare, how men feel like they need a big gun.

Pepper Spray is far more reliable, affective, prudent and intelligent than a large and heavy sidearm that's expensive, another item to keep track of, might not work, to risk losing in the river or to a thief.

To a bear that has shit in the woods since day one a gun shot might sound like lightning which the bear hears often, and consequently, unlikely to startle the bear because its a common sound. Instead, the whooshing, high velocity sound of pepper spray, and its strange, colorful, blasting, appearance to the bear, in addition to the equally as yet un-experienced, excruciating pain of pepper in the nasal cavity and eyes - one may well argue is more likely to deter a bear than a few pistol bullets fired in fear of one's life that strike, not the bear, but harmlessly whiz on by instead.

What are the odds of your fearfully fired pistol bullet striking a small, vital area of a bear's body that is charging you while you are uncontrollably shitting in your pants because your never-before-experience of a huge wild animal such as a bear, gnashing at the teeth, is approaching like a locomotive approaching a Hot Wheels model race car stranded on the tracks, and at about the same speed as the locomotive? Be a sissy. Get the pepper spray for bears and use the handgun for an anchor or ballast on your canoe. Both are more prudent uses.

The unwise, unprepared, un-smart humans get devoured.
 
#44
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It's interesting, but not rare, how men feel like they need a big gun.

Pepper Spray is far more reliable, affective, prudent and intelligent than a large and heavy sidearm that's expensive, another item to keep track of, might not work, to risk losing in the river or to a thief.

To a bear that has shit in the woods since day one a gun shot might sound like lightning which the bear hears often, and consequently, unlikely to startle the bear because its a common sound. Instead, the whooshing, high velocity sound of pepper spray, and its strange, colorful, blasting, appearance to the bear, in addition to the equally as yet un-experienced, excruciating pain of pepper in the nasal cavity and eyes - one may well argue is more likely to deter a bear than a few pistol bullets fired in fear of one's life that strike, not the bear, but harmlessly whiz on by instead.

What are the odds of your fearfully fired pistol bullet striking a small, vital area of a bear's body that is charging you while you are uncontrollably shitting in your pants because your never-before-experience of a huge wild animal such as a bear, gnashing at the teeth, is approaching like a locomotive approaching a Hot Wheels model race car stranded on the tracks, and at about the same speed as the locomotive? Be a sissy. Get the pepper spray for bears and use the handgun for an anchor or ballast on your canoe. Both are more prudent uses.

The unwise, unprepared, un-smart humans get devoured. </div></div>

Sweet, sounds like something to carry next to my 10mm.
 
#45
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about a .22. Couple of those in your hunting buddy knees and you can just walk away :)</div></div>

Shane? Is that you? I thought you died near the end of season 2.
 
#46
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

No real experience to add, but do have something I think is funny. A guy that used to hang out at the local gun shop was from Alaska and the subject of whether 357 mag, and 45 acp were enough for grizzly came up from time to time. Here is how the conversation always went.
Guy from Alaska: "Take a 357 mag/45 acp, just make sure to file off the front sight and you will be fine"
Some redneck: "Why would I file off the sight?"
Guy from Alaska: "So it hurts less when you piss off a bear with the pistol and he shoves it up your ass."

He was actually a fan of the bear sprays, but if he also liked having a 44 mag or bigger, granted this is all hearsay so take it with a grain of salt.
 
#48
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: phillipjr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">buy a 500s&w and not look back
wink.gif
</div></div>

try shooting it one handed, if he is on top of you taxing your ass, your not going to have two hands to use that hand cannon.
 
#49
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

Not sure if you have seen the show Alasks State Troopers? Everytime those guys went into the brush, they had a 12ga with Slugs. Yea, it might be a little heavy, but atleast you have the ultimate protection IMO..
 
#50
Re: .45 enough for a bear?

LMMFAO! Good point!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alaskaman 11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: phillipjr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">buy a 500s&w and not look back
wink.gif
</div></div>

try shooting it one handed, if he is on top of you taxing your ass, your not going to have two hands to use that hand cannon. </div></div>
 
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