Neck diameter on FL sizer die

[mdesign]

Redding tells me that they have discontinued the service of modifying the neck diameter on their FL sizing dies in preference to their line of bushing dies. (which have never given me great results)

Is there anyone out there that offers this service that I could send my dies to and have the necks opened up a little? I have the sample brass and know the dimensions that I want.

 

[bward]

Re: Neck diameter on FL sizer die

If you don't already have a Redding die, I think you can order them from Forster with custom diameters.

 

[jfseaman]

Re: Neck diameter on FL sizer die

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Redding tells me that they have discontinued offer the service of modifying the neck diameter on their FL sizing dies in preference to their line of bushing dies. (which have never given me great results)

Is there anyone out there that offers this service that I could send my dies to and have the necks opened up a little? I have the sample brass and know the dimensions that I want. </div></div>How far off are you?

Is there any possibility of using an oversize expander to get your larger ID. (Make the expander from the next size up, reduce the size by stoning and sanding in a drill, then polish well)

I got this idea from my RCBS 7.62x54R setup. I have an expander for .310 and .311. Example: I can use the .311 to open up .308 to make 'modified' cases, if I ding the case mouth.

Shipping alone to and from a machinist is probably more than a bushing die.

I'd love constructive criticism of the concept. Perhaps it would work the case mouth too much. New ish to reloading but sometimes the 'uneducated' can provide unique solutions to a challenge.

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: Neck diameter on FL sizer die

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fred Seaman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Redding tells me that they have discontinued offer the service of modifying the neck diameter on their FL sizing dies in preference to their line of bushing dies. (which have never given me great results)

Is there anyone out there that offers this service that I could send my dies to and have the necks opened up a little? I have the sample brass and know the dimensions that I want. </div></div>How far off are you?

Is there any possibility of using an oversize expander to get your larger ID. (Make the expander from the next size up, reduce the size by stoning and sanding in a drill, then polish well)

I got this idea from my RCBS 7.62x54R setup. I have an expander for .310 and .311. Example: I can use the .311 to open up .308 to make 'modified' cases, if I ding the case mouth.

Shipping alone to and from a machinist is probably more than a bushing die.

I'd love constructive criticism of the concept. Perhaps it would work the case mouth too much. New ish to reloading but sometimes the 'uneducated' can provide unique solutions to a challenge. </div></div>Not a bad idea but it does work the brass more than necessary. Also, expander balls are notorious for causing excessive runout if the case material isn't uniform

A better approach would perhaps be to remove the expander ball altogether and then use a separate expander mandrel die with the desired diameter.

When working the brass this much I would suggest annealing every time.

Otherwise invest in a Forster die that does all you need without any "Kentucky Windage" required.

 

[Temp9]

Re: Neck diameter on FL sizer die

What problems have you had with the bushing dies? It seems they're pretty much standard for precision reloading.

 

[mdesign]

Re: Neck diameter on FL sizer die

Unfortuately, I have the Redding dies.

How far off am I? I want to open up about .005 as currently the neck OD of the die is .304 and the expander opens the OD to about .309. Loaded dia is .3125 and I would like to run a case OD of .311 for a neck tension of .0015. When Pat Ryan was at Redding this was what he recommended and we did a lot of dies together. Loaded run-out was usually under .0005 (yes, I turn necks, Pat taught me that as well)

I know Hornady offers this service and it sounds like Forster does as well. Little disappointed in Redding, they used to do such a great job on the details. There is likely another option out there somewhere.

 

[mdesign]

Re: Neck diameter on FL sizer die

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Temp9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What problems have you had with the bushing dies? It seems they're pretty much standard for precision reloading. </div></div>

For me they have always produced more run-out than custom FL dies. I think it has to do with the starting neck OD of the fired case. The necks of some chambers are larger than others depending on how the reamer is used to cut the chamber and sometimes a lot of reducing has to take place to get the OD to the size you want it. For me, the FL die has always handled this variation better than the bushing set-up.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Neck diameter on FL sizer die

I do what LTR David suggests (and others too) which is to neck size with the Lee Collet Die, then follow with the correct body die to bump the shoulders. I find less run-out doing it that way.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Neck diameter on FL sizer die

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Temp9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What problems have you had with the bushing dies? It seems they're pretty much standard for precision reloading. </div></div>

For me they have always produced more run-out than custom FL dies. I think it has to do with the starting neck OD of the fired case. The necks of some chambers are larger than others depending on how the reamer is used to cut the chamber and sometimes a lot of reducing has to take place to get the OD to the size you want it. For me, the FL die has always handled this variation better than the bushing set-up. </div></div>

You need to use a larger step down bushing first, then your final sizing bushing second.

I run two neck bushing dies in tandem for my 308 and 223 carts. For my Savage 10FP, it blows the necks out to .344"-.345", so I use a .339" or .340" bushing in the first die, then whatever bushing I need for the brand of brass I'm using.

For 223, my AR-15 blows the necks out to .254"-.255", so I use a .249"-.250" bushing in the first die.

If you go in steps, you don't over stress the brass and you preserve whatever spring back you might have.

Also, let the bushings free float a bit, by backing off the sizing stem an eigth of a turn. The bushings will then self-center and keep concentricity in check.

Chris

 

[mdesign]

Re: Neck diameter on FL sizer die

Actually, I had excellent results with the Lee collet system back in the day but I did not like the lines it left in the brass where the collet came together. It's been a long time since I used them but if they have addressed that, maybe I should look again. They were probably the best out of the box that I had at the time.

I've heard about guys doing the two bushing step but it seems like a lot of messing around. How good is the concentricity doing it that way, can you expect less than .001?

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Neck diameter on FL sizer die

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, I had excellent results with the Lee collet system back in the day but I did not like the lines it left in the brass where the collet came together. It's been a long time since I used them but if they have addressed that, maybe I should look again. They were probably the best out of the box that I had at the time.

I've heard about guys doing the two bushing step but it seems like a lot of messing around. How good is the concentricity doing it that way, can you expect less than .001? </div></div>

Yeah, expecting less than .001" of runout is going to be pretty lofty, since runout isn't always, or mostly, caused by sizing.

If you don't run them in tandem, you just make a second pass with the second bushing.

For me, I have two extra sizing toolheads for my Dillon 550b, which have the body die and both bushing neck sizers.

Each pull of the handle performs those three steps.

No fuss, no muss.

Chris