Help Choosing a .223 rem

[Porter24]

Im looking to get back into bolt guns. I am not a big semi-auto (AR-15) guy. I have the intentions to get a reload press and start working on making my own loads. I am planning on shoot up to 300-400 yard max. And am a college student so i cant break my bank getting a rifle. Plans are coyote hunt and ground hogs. I have the choices down to a rem 700 sps tac, or varmint. I have also found a used vtr for sale. Any suggestions would be great. I have also considered savage rifles as well. The scope i will be running is a SS 10x

thanks everyone

 

[meyersa88]

I have the SPS tac and I couldn't be happier with it. Took it out to 600 and did pretty damn well with it. I wish it had a faster twist for heavier bullets but I can just get a new barrel for it some day. The varmints twist is slower so if you don't care about what weight bullet you're shooting then I say go with which you like the look of more.

 

[Vio515]

Not sure of your budget, but I would look into the Rem 5R series in .223. Great guns and they need little to no work and come in an H&S Precision stock from the factory. I've one in 308 and it has been an awesome rifle with no smithing needed to get 3/4 moa with FGMM.

 

[ScottyD]

I have a .223 Rem 700 sps with a 20" 1:9 barrel. I've been pretty darn happy with it. The factory barrel has been shooting pretty well for me, although I tried a bunch of factory ammo and the only thing it really likes is 69g FGMM. Check out "mail call mondays" budget tactical video series on YouTube -a lot of good info there. You can do a lot to improve these guns w/out spending too much. I put a B&C stock on mine, and a few other extras w/out breaking the bank, and its been a fantastic shooter. As long as I'm on the ball with my wind calls, it's happy to reach out to 600yds for me. It would be nice to have a faster twist (1:8 or 1:7) to shoot heavier bullets, but otherwise, the rem 700 sps is a great place to start, IMO...

3 69g SMK's @ 100yds:

<a href="http://s104.photobucket.com/user/scottdecapio/media/IMG_1932_zps420e3f40.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m183/scottdecapio/th_IMG_1932_zps420e3f40.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_1932_zps420e3f40.jpg"></a>

 

[korykhunter]

223 is a great cartridge and I don't play favorites but if your on a budget and want a few choices check out ERSHAW.com

 

[Deadshot2]

Not sure of your budget, but I would look into the Rem 5R series in .223. Great guns and they need little to no work and come in an H&S Precision stock from the factory. I've one in 308 and it has been an awesome rifle with no smithing needed to get 3/4 moa with FGMM.

I have a 5-R in .308 and couldn't be happier. Have it in a B&C #2094 just like the one pictured in this thread. Tomorrow morning I will be picking up a Reminton SPS Tactical and my plan is to swap back and forth with the .308 Action in the same stock. Whichever one suits my mood or which one I have ammo loaded for.

The B&C stock has an aluminum action block that is milled so the edges work like a "V" block system. Two screws and my torque wrench makes a quick swap. No bedding required so the stock will hold either action.

What the heck, I can't shoot two rifles at once so I can take whichever one I want out to play and not have to invest almost another "thou" in stock, bipod (I have a Sinclair Tactical) and such.

 

[turbo54]

The factory 223 offerings suck for our game because the rifling twist is too slow.

You want a 1-7, or a 1-8 at the slowest. The 1-9 barrels will handle the 69gr sierras, but that's it. The 69s will be "fun" at 400 yards because the wind will blow them around a LOT.

Meanwhile the 75 and 80gr amax do damned fine.

My suggestion is order a criterion 223 barrel from northland with a 1-7.5 twist (about $350), and look around for a Stevens or Savage donor rifle, which will set you back another $300-$450.

This will make for a highly capable 223.

 

[josephberry]

The factory 223 offerings suck for our game because the rifling twist is too slow.

You want a 1-7, or a 1-8 at the slowest. The 1-9 barrels will handle the 69gr sierras, but that's it. The 69s will be "fun" at 400 yards because the wind will blow them around a LOT.

Meanwhile the 75 and 80gr amax do damned fine.

My suggestion is order a criterion 223 barrel from northland with a 1-7.5 twist (about $350), and look around for a Stevens or Savage donor rifle, which will set you back another $300-$450.

This will make for a highly capable 223.

well said, why Remington will not offer a faster twist is a mystery to me.

 

[ScottyD]

Yup, having gone down the classic FNG route with my 1:9, I can definitely see the wisdom in turbo54's advice.

 

[calling4life]

Savage model 12 vlp dbm can be had in a 7twist, but it's heavy. Tikka uses an 8 twist, I have the sporter, though it may be out of your allotted $$ range.

 

[Blacktical]

The factory 223 offerings suck for our game because the rifling twist is too slow.

You want a 1-7, or a 1-8 at the slowest. The 1-9 barrels will handle the 69gr sierras, but that's it. The 69s will be "fun" at 400 yards because the wind will blow them around a LOT.

Meanwhile the 75 and 80gr amax do damned fine.

My suggestion is order a criterion 223 barrel from northland with a 1-7.5 twist (about $350), and look around for a Stevens or Savage donor rifle, which will set you back another $300-$450.

This will make for a highly capable 223.

Will a 1:7 twist rate on an AR-15 work well for a medium distance rifle?

Peaked my interest with this info...

 

[turbo54]

Will a 1:7 twist rate on an AR-15 work well for a medium distance rifle?

Peaked my interest with this info...

My understanding is 1-7 twist ARs are for the purpose of firing the longer tracer bullets...not including the bull barrel varmjnt models.

Twist is twist though, so provided its a good accurate barrel, I'd think it would stabilize and shoot the heavy 75/80 grain bullets fine, with two caveats:

1. The cartridge length is severely limited in an AR magazine so the long heavy high BC bullets will be a single-load affair...that's assuming the chamber is throated deep enough. It probably is.

2. We're talking 16" barrels, and velocity of the 75/80 grain bullets will be limited. I think a "medium range" AR would be better suited for the ~69gr pillsthat are ddesigned to fit a magazine.

 

[Blacktical]

My understanding is 1-7 twist ARs are for the purpose of firing the longer tracer bullets...not including the bull barrel varmjnt models.

Twist is twist though, so provided its a good accurate barrel, I'd think it would stabilize and shoot the heavy 75/80 grain bullets fine, with two caveats:

1. The cartridge length is severely limited in an AR magazine so the long heavy high BC bullets will be a single-load affair...that's assuming the chamber is throated deep enough. It probably is.

2. We're talking 16" barrels, and velocity of the 75/80 grain bullets will be limited. I think a "medium range" AR would be better suited for the ~69gr pillsthat are ddesigned to fit a magazine.

At risking of hijacking this thread I'll asking one more question...

The AR-15 in question is a Colt LE6920 - not sure if that clarifies anything or not.

 

[Deadshot2]

well said, why Remington will not offer a faster twist is a mystery to me.

With their barrels being hammer forged, and the cost of the mandrel being big money, they evidently don't see the potential return. Apparently they are content to do business in the Target/Tactical/Varmint market and ranges of 300-400 yards.

 

[turbo54]

With their barrels being hammer forged, and the cost of the mandrel being big money, they evidently don't see the potential return. Apparently they are content to do business in the Target/Tactical/Varmint market and ranges of 300-400 yards.

Which is a shame. A 20-22" .223 can pretty easily do 2800-2850 with the 80 amax, which rivals the .308" 175smk for BC. Aside from lack of downrange energy, these little suckers really fly NICE. A 600 pack (when available) runs ~$110, so bullets cost about 1/2 as much as good 30cal bullets. It burns just a smidge more than 1/2 the powder of the 30 cal. Really a nice little combo.

Until last weekend, I was under the impression a 1-7 twist wouldn't shoot the lighter bullets well. That is, until I saw a friend with a varmint barreled 1-7 twist AR shoot bugholes with 50gr Vmaxs, as well as 80gr Amaxs.

 

[Gary223]

Thought about a tikka t3? They shoot great from factory and come in 1:8 twist which is good for 75gr amax or 80gr bergers.
Or the lighter 55gr vmax type bullets