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Redding neck sizer bushing question

earthquake

earthquake

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Minuteman
    • Jul 30, 2009
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    #1
    ****I'm editing this old post so as not to start a new one. See post #26 below.




    Hi, I'm gradually building my first reloading set and am buying dies for my 6.5 Creedmoor. I already have purchased a Redding Competition seating die, and am now about to buy the Redding FL sizing die. My question though is about the bushings for neck tension. I'm reloading for a bolt gun if that helps or makes any difference.

    How do I know which one I'll need?

    Is this something I won't know until I start to reload? Or should I just buy a few in a certain range now?

    I'll be starting out by reloading the factory Hornady ammo brass I'm in the process of shooting right now. It looks like from the Midway/Redding websites that "<i>To determine proper Bushing size, measure the outside neck diameter of a loaded cartridge with a precision micrometer, then subtract .001" to .002", to allow for brass spring back and bullet tension.</i>" So if I'm reading this right, I use a micrometer to measure one of my loaded (unfired) pieces of factory Hornady 140 Amax rounds, then subract the .001" or .002" from that measurement? What if I'll be using different bullets than the Amax? I picked up some Berger 130 VLD's to try as well eventually.

    I hope this isn't a dumb question, thank in advance!
     
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    #2
    Youre going to need the VLD micrometer first of all if you use VLD's. Otherwise I went .002 smaller than the diameter of a loaded round I was using and it works great. I also got two bushings smaller and larger just in case I was to use different bullets or if the bullets were loose when seated and I didn't want to crimp.
     
    #4
    COfox said:
    "<i>To determine proper Bushing size, measure the outside neck diameter of a loaded cartridge with a precision micrometer, then subtract .001" to .002", to allow for brass spring back and bullet tension.</i>" So if I'm reading this right, I use a micrometer to measure one of my loaded (unfired) pieces of factory Hornady 140 Amax rounds, then subract the .001" or .002" from that measurement? What if I'll be using different bullets than the Amax?
    Click to expand...

    Correct, I use a .289 in my .260.

    The bushing won't change when your bullet selection changes, the bullet diameter remains constant. It will change when using a different brand of brass if the neck is a different thickness.
     
    #5
    To find the correct bushing for any load you measure the diameter of the neck of a loaded round and then subtract 0.001" or 0.002" - that will be your bushing size to start with.

    The 6.5 Creedmoor factory ammo typically measures around 0.290"....Hornady and Creedmoor Sports recommends using a 0.288" bushing for bolt guns. .288" is a good starting point, but some guys experiment with different bushings to see what shoots best in their gun.
     
    #10
    I use a 0.292" bushing with my Lapua 260 Rem brass with 142 SMK's. That gives me about 0.002" springback. I did an accuracy test between the 0.292" and 0.293" bushings at 600 yards this past winter and the 0.292" (0.002" springback) won by about 1/2" smaller group.
     
    #11
    I usually neck turn my rifle brass just to knock off the high spots, then like redding suggests: "To determine proper Bushing size, measure the outside neck diameter of a loaded cartridge with a precision micrometer, then subtract .001" to .002", to allow for brass spring back and bullet tension."

    So far its worked out good. Just a thought, hope this helps.

    J
     
    #12
    Jayman_10X said:
    I use a 0.292" bushing with my Lapua 260 Rem brass with 142 SMK's. That gives me about 0.002" springback. I did an accuracy test between the 0.292" and 0.293" bushings at 600 yards this past winter and the 0.292" (0.002" springback) won by about 1/2" smaller group.
    Click to expand...

    same here 292 on lapua using scenar 139 and 140 smk
     
    #15
    My necks running the 140 vld are .292" BUT my particular rifle shoots better with a .287 bushing. Don't ask cause I don't know why. Also you ought to think about the whidden fl bump bushing die. It takes redding bushings and once you got it set its pretty close all the way threw on bumping. There are some more cool features that I know are there but can't come to mind. On the vld stem. It's just as good as the comp series by redding. Just spend the 150$ on the series d set, or just get the seater but I assure you it's just as good. I've got 4 sets of comp seater dies by redding and knowing now what I didn't know then I'd have bought the series d die set and the vld seater stem for all of them and saved myself a few $'s. hope this helps
     
    #16
    Bumping this thread as I now have both dies (Redding comp seater and FL sizing). I got a Lee precision breech lock kit from my pops for a housewarming gift, I have 8lbs of powder, 600 bullets of various types, brass and 2k Fed 210M primers. In a week or so I'll need to order this neck bushing and the VLD seating dial. Will be building the bench this weekend, but that's another story. I picked up Berger's reloading manual.

    I guess the question I still have is that I'm getting confused when they say "...measure a loaded cartridge..." Is this one of my loads, which then if it's loaded, I already had to have a neck bushing in the die right? Or are they saying measure some factory ammo you bought from Hornady to see what size neck bushing you would THEN need to BUY so you can size your loaded ammo correctly? Chicken or egg kinda thing right? I have to buy a neck bushing in order to LOAD a round first, but how can I measure a loaded round if I can't load one because I don't have a neck bushing?

    I just don't want to fuck this up!
     
    #18
    It's a bit of a hassle. In theory, neck thickness x 2 + bullet diameter - 0.002" should work.

    And it does if you turn necks.

    If you don't, your neck thickness can vary by more than 0.001" within a given lot. In fact, in some cases, you'll see it vary by .001" on a single case, depending on where you measure. For an example, I measured some Norma 6mmXC brass straight out of the box:

    Norma 6mm XC Brass

    And that's pretty good brass.

    So the best answer if you really want consistent tension is to turn necks. That will put them all within a few tenths of each other and more or less perfectly even.

    If you don't want to do that, then measure up some cases - a good sampling, not just one or two, figure out where the average is, and do the math above.

    Be prepared to buy another bushing that's + or - .001" from where you started if your'e picky.
     
    #19
    It doesn't matter what loaded round you use to measure the neck diameter. The important thing is it's on the brass you're going to use. So you could just measure one of the factory Hornady rounds you have. You can then take that number, subtract off 0.002" and that's the bushing you need.

    I learned something else about this whole thing over the last 9 months with my first neck sizing die. If your chamber is such that the neck diameter of a fired case is more than about 0.004", you should neck size in two steps. Otherwise, if you have to decrease the neck diameter by say, 0.007", if you use the bushing that you think should give you what you need, it'll actually cause the neck diameter to be less than that. In my case, the expander button in the die opened up the neck diameter to where it needed to be, but I thought the whole idea of neck bushings were so you didn't need the expander bushing.
     
    #20
    COfox said:
    Bumping this thread as I now have both dies (Redding comp seater and FL sizing). I got a Lee precision breech lock kit from my pops for a housewarming gift, I have 8lbs of powder, 600 bullets of various types, brass and 2k Fed 210M primers. In a week or so I'll need to order this neck bushing and the VLD seating dial. Will be building the bench this weekend, but that's another story. I picked up Berger's reloading manual.

    I guess the question I still have is that I'm getting confused when they say "...measure a loaded cartridge..." Is this one of my loads, which then if it's loaded, I already had to have a neck bushing in the die right? Or are they saying measure some factory ammo you bought from Hornady to see what size neck bushing you would THEN need to BUY so you can size your loaded ammo correctly? Chicken or egg kinda thing right? I have to buy a neck bushing in order to LOAD a round first, but how can I measure a loaded round if I can't load one because I don't have a neck bushing?

    I just don't want to fuck this up!
    Click to expand...

    If you already have a Redding Competition Seating die you only need to buy a VLD stem and DO NOT need to buy a complete micrometer seat stem. This will save you $$$. A quick call to Redding tech support will get you a part number for the VLD stem. They vary in length depending on cartridge so Redding tech will need to know what cartridge you are using. Sinclair stocks many of them or can order for you.

    If you are going to reload the brass from the factory ammunition you already have just measure the neck on the loaded cartridge you have now and subtract .001-.002" for your bushing. Measure at multiple points around the neck and use the smallest dimension to calculate bushing size. I myself would lean towards .002" under neck diameter. Other bullets will not vary enough to worry about in the future. If you purchase different brass in the future you may need a different bushing.
     
    Last edited:
    #21
    Measure a loaded round you have right now and buy two bushings...one that is .002 under this number and one that is .003 under. Once you find the bullet/primer/powder/seating depth combination that works best for your chamber, you can play with neck tension to see if groups tighten up. I did a test recently doing this with a 6BRX and found that my .266 bushing with neck turned blue box lapua was still the best neck tension for this rifle.
    As others have said, neck turn the brass (even if it is a no-turn chamber) to get consistent neck tension. If you turn the necks, you will need to buy another bushing or two from what you purchase initially to get proper neck tension...the fun never ends :).
     
    #22
    Thanks guys...that helps to clear up the misunderstanding I was having. I'll measure, order, and call Redding support for the stem.

    * edit to add: Titanium or steel bushings?
     
    Last edited:
    #24
    COfox said:
    This: VLD stem at about $19


    Instead of this: VLD micrometer at about $36

    ??
    Click to expand...

    Yes. Although the link shows a complete die you will only get the stem. I have purchased 5 or 6 from Sinclair. The complete stem shown in the Midway link will not work on a Comp Seat die. They are designed for a standard seat die. Call Sinclair or Redding tech so you get the correct length stem. My guess for a 6.5 Creedmoor will be part number #55746

    This is what they look like REDDING COMPETITION STANDARD LENGTH VLD SEATER STEMS | Sinclair Intl

    With Ti Nitride bushings you can get away with no lube on the neck if you wish. If you are full length sizing you'll be lubricating the case and neck anyway. Nothing wrong with the uncoated steel. I have and use both.
     
    Last edited:
    #25
    Well I think I screwed this up! For some reason, instrument error(?) I measured 0.295" with digital calipers. Recently I was given a Starrett 1" micrometer and measured a Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor cartridge's neck at 0.2766" but I'd already ordered a 0.294" bushing....Frack!

    0.0184" is a big difference I would think. For anyone that has or can measure Hornady factory ammo, what sounds more correct, a 0.295" neck, or a 0.277" neck?

    *Edit to add: Bullet measured alone with Starrett micro is 0.2513"...does that sound right? 140 Hornady Amax, 6.5mm....that comes out to 6.38mm by my calculations...maybe my micrometer is off too...shit.
     
    Last edited:
    #26
    Long time since I posted this, but I just now got around to loading my first batch.

    So, I think I messed this up. I measured my fired cases at .295 and so I thought -0.002 was 0.293" I got the .293 and a .294 bushing and they didn't work obviously. I then got a .292 and while it works and I can't get the bullets out by hand, I've found a few of my cases where I could do that, or they fell right in. Now I'm second guessing that all my bullets are w/o the proper neck tension. I pulled some with my kinetic hammer puller and they came out pretty easy. With the proper math, it looks like I need the 0.289" bushing. brass thickness (0.0135") x2 + bullet diameter (0.264") - 0.002" = 0.289"

    Is this an issue? Should I pull them all and wait to test until I get a smaller bushing? What may I see in my results in an OCW I want to try this weekend?

    Thanks.
     
    #27
    I'm not sure about your math. The easiest way to find bushing size is to have a properly loaded round and measure at the neck, then subtract .002". To me a 291 may be all you need by your statements. This gets pricey not knowing.

    Neck tension is funny, work hardened brass with a lot of spring-back, when seating bullets will feel like not enough tension. Anneal the brass and it comes back.

    I went through this with a 6BR, now my bushing is .006 under, have a bullet line in the neck because it's compressed so much. But to me I like the feel of seating now, but am overworking the piss out of the necks. Accuracy is there, and no shortage of brass so I'm staying the coarse.
     
    #29
    COfox said:
    No kidding! I've got three of these damn things at $25 ea and two I can't use...maybe all three! Very frustrating...
    Click to expand...

    Yes, It can get expensive. So I can use all of the different types of 308 brass that I have, I use Redding TiN bushings in .337",.335",.333" .331" and .329". The way I justify it is all of my once fired brass I have is free, free, free. I'm fortunate to have a lifetime supply of brass.

    Instead of using a Caliper to get my measurements, I used a 0-1" Mic. It's a very old analog one, but the measurements I got from it were right on the money.
     
    #30
    +1 on using a micrometer. Best bet for a critical measurement.

    .290 or .291 have worked for me reloading .260 & 6.5x55

    I've used the Redding steel bushings in a pinch. They're a little less.

    Also have a few of the RCBS bushings. Even less money.

    That being said, the TiN bushings are by far the nicest to use.
     
    #31
    COfox said:
    Long time since I posted this, but I just now got around to loading my first batch.

    So, I think I messed this up. I measured my fired cases at .295 and so I thought -0.002 was 0.293" I got the .293 and a .294 bushing and they didn't work obviously. I then got a .292 and while it works and I can't get the bullets out by hand, I've found a few of my cases where I could do that, or they fell right in. Now I'm second guessing that all my bullets are w/o the proper neck tension. I pulled some with my kinetic hammer puller and they came out pretty easy. With the proper math, it looks like I need the 0.289" bushing. brass thickness (0.0135") x2 + bullet diameter (0.264") - 0.002" = 0.289"

    Is this an issue? Should I pull them all and wait to test until I get a smaller bushing? What may I see in my results in an OCW I want to try this weekend?

    Thanks.
    Click to expand...

    You need to measure a loaded case, not a piece of fired brass. For this, you can undersize the neck, seat a bullet, and measure. Different mfrs of brass have different thickness, and require different bushings.

    Don't measure brass thickness and the. Start doing math. You want to use measurements based on what is actually happening, not what "should" happen
     
    Last edited:
    #32
    COfox said:
    Well I think I screwed this up! For some reason, instrument error(?) I measured 0.295" with digital calipers. Recently I was given a Starrett 1" micrometer and measured a Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor cartridge's neck at 0.2766" but I'd already ordered a 0.294" bushing....Frack!

    0.0184" is a big difference I would think. For anyone that has or can measure Hornady factory ammo, what sounds more correct, a 0.295" neck, or a 0.277" neck?

    *Edit to add: Bullet measured alone with Starrett micro is 0.2513"...does that sound right? 140 Hornady Amax, 6.5mm....that comes out to 6.38mm by my calculations...maybe my micrometer is off too...shit.
    Click to expand...

    Either your mic is off or you are not using it correctly. The bullet should be exactly .264 with little to no variance.
     
    #33
    In addition, there is no way .277 is right. You are gonna be in the area of the 290s with a 6.5. Keep in mind that hornady brass is paper thin. I have to size down .003 from my normal 308 bushing to seat hornady brass
     
    #34
    Redding Neck Bushing Tips - YouTube
    This same info was mentioned by an earlier poster and if ya had any questions they have some great CS if you are still in question on anything! I have called them several times and they have sent me in the rite direction with out any double,guessing or buying 5 or 6 bushings when ya needed 3 !
     
    Last edited:
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