Please dont flame me..Need some help with scope

M

mag1

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 11, 2012
136
1
52
NJ
#1
This is my first time shooting a rifle with a scope.
Its a Gap-10 .308 20" , Vortex Razor 5-20 mil/mil ebr-2b 1 click=.1mrad. Scope is on a 20moa AD mount.
Ammo used was federal 150 grain.
Set up the target at 100 yards.
I thought it would be easy to sight in, but I had a hard time. It was just a pick up the rifle and go to the range last minute thing.
So after about 15 rounds, I noticed I was shooting over the target and to the right.
I did some experimenting with aiming at different parts on the target, and found if I put the crosshair at the center of the bottom left diamond of the target, I was able to get shots closer to the center of the circular target. The bottom left diamond center is 12" lower and 4" to the left of the center from the circular target.

So I need to use my adjustment knobs, but did not bring my scope booklet with me.
I havent read anything yet, but need to order a book or do some online training definitely.

So looking at the target and where I was shooting, which knobs should I move, which direction, and how many clicks? If this is easy for you pros to explain.
I am looking forward to hitting the range 2x per week starting next week, and picking up a book.
I do have 175 gr match ammo, but didnt want to waste it.


 
#4
Each click with your scope equals .36" at 100yds. So based off your measurements you should give your top turret 34 clicks down and your side turret 11 clicks left

Sent from my POS phone using Tapatalk 2
 
Last edited:
#5
mag1 said:
Thanks. So the top turret I would need to turn it 33 clicks counter clockwise, and the side turret 11 clicks clockwise.
Click to expand...

Correct on windage, but you'll want to go clockwise with the elevation. There should be an arrow showing which direction corresponds to up/down. You'll also want to remove the cap on the elevation turret so that you can take advantage of your scope's zero stop function. It is explains in the manual how to do it, or I could give you some help too.

Sent from my POS phone using Tapatalk 2
 
Last edited:
#6
Start with learning how the scope functions. Top turret is elevation; as you look down on it, counterclockwise will move point of impact (POI) "Up", clockwise will move it "Down". Right turret is windage; as you look at it from the right side, counterclockwise will move POI "Right", clockwise will move POI "Left".

Next, the adjustments (0.1 mrad "clicks" for your scope) are simply an angular measurement. The same is true for MOA. Picture a very small angle extending from the rifle at the line all the way out to the target. The distance between where the two lines intersect the paper is the arc length subtended by that angle. Note, the arc is actually the length of the circle between where the two lines of the angle touch where the radius is the distance between you and the target (in this case 100 yd, see picture below). Although the paper is actually flat and not round, the circle is so large that it is almost flat between the lines, so we ignore the fact that it's flat. An angle of 1.0 mrad subtends an arc of 3.6" at 100 yd; in other words, turning the scope dial 10 "clicks" (1.0 mrad) should cause your POI to move 3.6" in whatever direction you turned the knob. One "click" would be 1/10th that distance, or 0.36" at the target. Because the angle keeps getting bigger as the range increases, so does the arc length, or effective distance one "click" moves your POI. At 200 yd, one click will move it twice as far as at 100 yd, at 300 yd, three times, etc.

Slide1-10.jpg


The above was simply to help you understand how the scope adjustments work; however, it is better not to think in terms of linear distance at the target (ie. how many inches an adjustment will move the POI). The scope reticle is calibrated to show you those "distances" at a specific magnification because it has graduations on the axis like a graph. At the correct magnification, the crosshatched lines designate specific angular measurement (1.0 = one mrad, etc.). All you need to do to figure out the adjustment you need to make that will put your POI the same as your point of aim (POA) is to measure the angular distance on the reticle axis between where your shot landed, and where you actually aimed. If the difference between the two points was 0.5 mrad by the reticle hashmarks, then dial that amount of elevation/windage. Remember, for this to work, the scope needs to be set at the correct magnification, probably 20X for your scope. It's pretty simple, let the reticle do the work for you and don't think in terms of "inches" or some other linear measurement at whatever distance you're shooting. Because the reticle tells you the angular measurement (rather than some linear distance), it doesn't matter how far away the target is. If the POI is 0.5 mrad away from the POA by the reticle hashmarks, that is the correction you need to make with your turrets.

My suggestion would be to practice using your turrets and learn how the reticle works for you. You don't even necessarily need to be shooting to familiarize yourself with its use, but in the long run, learning this will be a great help to your shooting. Good luck.
 
#7
The above, plus the manufacturer has built in the direction to move your turrets so you don't have to mentally figure it out. Just turn the knob in the direction you want the bullet to go. There should be arrows on the knobs indicating this direction. As an additional word of caution, Always sight your weapon in at around 25 yds. or so. this is to insure that you are on paper prior to setting up a target at distance. Most ranges require this so shooters aren't sending rounds off the property while guessing where their shots went. Again, most ranges have rules about all rounds impacting the berm. welcome to the sport and good shooting.
 
#8
spelunk said:
Correct on windage, but you'll want to go clockwise with the elevation. There should be an arrow showing which direction corresponds to up/down. You'll also want to remove the cap on the elevation turret so that you can take advantage of your scope's zero stop function. It is explains in the manual how to do it, or I could give you some help too.

Sent from my POS phone using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

Top turret is for elevation and I can only move it counterclockwise
 
#9
gstaylorg said:
Start with learning how the scope functions. Top turret is elevation; as you look down on it, counterclockwise will move point of impact (POI) "Up", clockwise will move it "Down". Right turret is windage; as you look at it from the right side, counterclockwise will move POI "Right", clockwise will move POI "Left".

Next, the adjustments (0.1 mrad "clicks" for your scope) are simply an angular measurement. The same is true for MOA. Picture a very small angle extending from the rifle at the line all the way out to the target. The distance between where the two lines intersect the paper is the arc length subtended by that angle. Note, the arc is actually the length of the circle between where the two lines of the angle touch where the radius is the distance between you and the target (in this case 100 yd, see picture below). Although the paper is actually flat and not round, the circle is so large that it is almost flat between the lines, so we ignore the fact that it's flat. An angle of 1.0 mrad subtends an arc of 3.6" at 100 yd; in other words, turning the scope dial 10 "clicks" (1.0 mrad) should cause your POI to move 3.6" in whatever direction you turned the knob. One "click" would be 1/10th that distance, or 0.36" at the target. Because the angle keeps getting bigger as the range increases, so does the arc length, or effective distance one "click" moves your POI. At 200 yd, one click will move it twice as far as at 100 yd, at 300 yd, three times, etc.

Slide1-10.jpg


The above was simply to help you understand how the scope adjustments work; however, it is better not to think in terms of linear distance at the target (ie. how many inches an adjustment will move the POI). The scope reticle is calibrated to show you those "distances" at a specific magnification because it has graduations on the axis like a graph. At the correct magnification, the crosshatched lines designate specific angular measurement (1.0 = one mrad, etc.). All you need to do to figure out the adjustment you need to make that will put your POI the same as your point of aim (POA) is to measure the angular distance on the reticle axis between where your shot landed, and where you actually aimed. If the difference between the two points was 0.5 mrad by the reticle hashmarks, then dial that amount of elevation/windage. Remember, for this to work, the scope needs to be set at the correct magnification, probably 20X for your scope. It's pretty simple, let the reticle do the work for you and don't think in terms of "inches" or some other linear measurement at whatever distance you're shooting. Because the reticle tells you the angular measurement (rather than some linear distance), it doesn't matter how far away the target is. If the POI is 0.5 mrad away from the POA by the reticle hashmarks, that is the correction you need to make with your turrets.

My suggestion would be to practice using your turrets and learn how the reticle works for you. You don't even necessarily need to be shooting to familiarize yourself with its use, but in the long run, learning this will be a great help to your shooting. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much
 
#12
If it were me, I'd start at 30 or 40 yards. Pull the bolt out of the Barrell. Set the gun on a sturdy set of bags/bipod. Look through the barrell with your naked eye, line up the target so it is visible I side the bore as u look through it...now carefully without worrying about how many clicks adjust the turrets until your cross hairs line up with the center of target. Double check now that as you look through the bore you see the target center, and as u look through the scope the cross hairs are seeing the same thing hot seeing through the bore. I do this whenever I swap scopes so I don't have to deal with wasting ammo. This works really well for me.
 
#13
You didn't say where your last shot was so, looking at your 2 shots low and right of the shoot-n-c target:
You need 1.66mil left windage which is between 16 and 17 clicks for you scope.
You need 2.77mil down elevation which is between 27 and 28 clicks for your scope.
Those adjustments should put your next shot at the lower left diamond on target assuming your scope is level and tracking properly.

Next time you start sighting in a rifle try removing the bolt and looking through the barrel to get on target. No need to start any closer than 100yds. You can easily get lined up on a 2'x2' piece of paper at that distance. Once you center the target in the barrel you can dial the scope and watch the reticle move to the center of the target. This will get you very close when done correctly.
 
#15
mag1 said:
I did some experimenting with aiming at different parts on the target, and found if I put the crosshair at the center of the bottom left diamond of the target, I was able to get shots closer to the center of the circular target. The bottom left diamond center is 12" lower and 4" to the left of the center from the circular target.
Click to expand...

1. What I just quoted is your biggest mistake. The next time that you have this out at the range, no matter what make sure you use the same point of aim. Shoot, make your correction, and always hold the same point of aim.

Also, check out youtube, there are many more cost effective methods of zeroing your rifle. I have watched videos where you can zero your rifle in 3-5 shots.

HABIT is taught in the Canadian Army, and if you do it you will fare better than the target you posted.

H - Hold (Think rifle ergonomics, and holding tight but loose. Hold your rifle firm, but not with a death grip)
A - Aim (Self explanatory, know your scope)
B - Breathing (Slow your breathing down, when you take your shot, make sure you are not inhaling or exhaling)
I - Instinctive Position (Position yourself behind your rifle as comfortable as possible, be it prone or bench)
T - Trigger control (Gradually squeeze, not pull! Imagine squeezing an apple with all of your fingers and not just your index finger)
 
#16
longun83 said:
1. What I just quoted is your biggest mistake. The next time that you have this out at the range, no matter what make sure you use the same point of aim. Shoot, make your correction, and always hold the same point of aim.

Also, check out youtube, there are many more cost effective methods of zeroing your rifle. I have watched videos where you can zero your rifle in 3-5 shots.

HABIT is taught in the Canadian Army, and if you do it you will fare better than the target you posted.

H - Hold (Think rifle ergonomics, and holding tight but loose. Hold your rifle firm, but not with a death grip)
A - Aim (Self explanatory, know your scope)
B - Breathing (Slow your breathing down, when you take your shot, make sure you are not inhaling or exhaling)
I - Instinctive Position (Position yourself behind your rifle as comfortable as possible, be it prone or bench)
T - Trigger control (Gradually squeeze, not pull! Imagine squeezing an apple with all of your fingers and not just your index finger)
Click to expand...

Thanks, I was wondering about that..
I actually put it up for sale until I can go shoot again. If it sells before I hit the range, my loss, someones gain.
If it doesnt sell before range day, Im gonna put some more rounds through it and take all of the members advice, esp yours!
Thanks so much
 
#19
I don't see any decent groups. You need to do a lot more reading about scope and rifle function. Find someone in your area to help you learn more of the basics. There are so many facets to this sport. It's certainly much more than buying a rifle, scope and some bullets. It's not at all like buying a pistol, AR or shotgun and just going to the range and firing off a few hundred rounds. As I said lots to learn, but I guarantee, you'll be rewarded with tons of fun in the end.
 
#20
Don't sell it please! You'll regret it later.

A better idea is to maybe pick yourself up a .22 rifle, mount the Vortex on it and learn how the scope functions, without worrying about the cost of ammo or recoil management.

Sorry about the joke posted, but that's a hell of a first scoped rifle to learn on.

I try to shoot my .22 everyday, it's hell fun and hell cheap. :)
 
#21
I'm at a loss for words. Your first time to shoot a rifle with a scope and your getting trigger time with a very nice rifle. I've been saving for over two years for my project, hoping to pull the trigger by Oct. 1 I'd keep the rifle, get some help, and have fun. Good luck.
 
#22
Hey, I guess they got you squared away above on how to adjust your group. So I'm chiming in to say you should do a search for "shooting math" or "understanding MOA and mils" and there is a pretty good paper this fellow wrote that actually includes the basic trig and angular measurements you need to know in a very simple and easy to understand way. In fact, he beats it to death. I'm assuming you need this info, you'll be a lot better shooter once you understand the angular measurements and how they apply to shooting.

Good luck, safe shooting! Sorry I couldn't give you the actual link, it was while since I read it but that search should turn it up.
 
#23
mag1 said:
Thanks, I was wondering about that..
I actually put it up for sale until I can go shoot again. If it sells before I hit the range, my loss, someones gain.
If it doesnt sell before range day, Im gonna put some more rounds through it and take all of the members advice, esp yours!
Thanks so much
Click to expand...


DO NOT SELL IT! You only live in NJ, that's not that far for me to drive down in person and slap you upside the head.

The first thing to figuring this out is always maintain the same point of aim for the group that you are firing. Perhaps even bring the rifle to your gunsmith and get them to give the rifle a once over and help you to mount the scope properly. Keep us posted!
 
#24
mag1 said:
This is my first time shooting a rifle with a scope.
Its a Gap-10 .308 20" , Vortex Razor 5-20 mil/mil ebr-2b 1 click=.1mrad. Scope is on a 20moa AD mount.
Ammo used was federal 150 grain.
Set up the target at 100 yards.
I thought it would be easy to sight in, but I had a hard time. It was just a pick up the rifle and go to the range last minute thing.
So after about 15 rounds, I noticed I was shooting over the target and to the right.
I did some experimenting with aiming at different parts on the target, and found if I put the crosshair at the center of the bottom left diamond of the target, I was able to get shots closer to the center of the circular target. The bottom left diamond center is 12" lower and 4" to the left of the center from the circular target.

So I need to use my adjustment knobs, but did not bring my scope booklet with me.
I havent read anything yet, but need to order a book or do some online training definitely.

So looking at the target and where I was shooting, which knobs should I move, which direction, and how many clicks? If this is easy for you pros to explain.
I am looking forward to hitting the range 2x per week starting next week, and picking up a book.
I do have 175 gr match ammo, but didnt want to waste it.


Click to expand...

I'd really like to flame you; but instead, I'll just suggest, why not use your own brain to learn how to adjust your scope. After all, you have the booklet, right? And, since it appears you know how to read, as well as comprehend, it shouldn't be too much of a learning challenge; plus, learning it on your own rather, than having someone tell you how to do it, can be fun, who knows what you may discover.

Now, since I'm certain you are not stupid, just ignorant, I do wonder why you would select a scope with a specialty reticle not already knowing what benefit such a design would inspire. You seem to be a copy of the folks with the "deer in the headlights" look I see most every day who are in the market for a scope to complement their "precision rifle". These folks are totally clueless about what reticle and/or what adjustment scheme would best serve their needs. They just want to buy what their favorite scope guru suggests; but, you seem too smart to buy a scope so stupidly. I conclude therfore that you are just funning us, is that right?
 
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