I would like to hear from guys that shoot both that can give me real info. Trying to decide between the two.
260 vs 6.5x47 out to 1000 yards?
- Thread starter EasternNChunter
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I had a 6.5x47 for a little while, I transitioned to .260 after the barrel was shot out. I stuck with .260 as the performance was extremely close (scores averaged the same for similar conditions) and there was more brass and even loaded match ammo available for the .260.
260 shoots faster, but only by about 80-100fps depending on the barrel. So you wouldn't notice a big difference.
Thats very subjective, Chubbles and I have been locked in a battle between his X47 and my .260. While both are extremely accurate, his X47 pushed to near max is pushing 140's at 2800, while my .260 is scorching the atmosphere like a space shuttle at 2940. Even shooting the 130 Berger at 2850 his X47 just matches my .260 shooting cheaper bullets, cheaper brass. So to me, the .260 is the better choice. Let it be known however, I'm no hater of the X47.
Here's a pretty good writeup on both, and the 6.5 Creedmoor:
6.5mm Shootout: .260 Remington vs. 6.5x47 Lapua vs. 6.5 Creedmoor
John
6.5mm Shootout: .260 Remington vs. 6.5x47 Lapua vs. 6.5 Creedmoor
John
I have no experience with 6.5x47 only 260. I run a 260 pretty fast also (don't have a chrono) I just know they are flying faster than 2850.
With a 24"-26" barrel on either you would probably see around 100fps difference. There are some people running 260s to the limit and others running them very conservatively in the 2700fps range. The x47 will give you the ability of a small rifle primer which to some is a big deal. It also has a steeper shoulder and potentially less case stretching and trimming. Throw the ballistics of a 140gr that you plan on shooting at avg 260 speeds of 28-2850fps and then compare them to average x47 speeds in the low 2700s and see how big of a difference it makes. My vote would be x47 for the case design and creedmoor if you wanted a newer style case and 260 speeds.
26" Bartlien 1-8 twist. It's already at the smiths place. I had planned on going 6.5x47 but now going back and forth.
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The 260 will push the same bullets faster at same pressures. The rest is semantics in a nutshell. Either one will do 1000 yards, bu the 260 has a velocity edge. According to many reports the 6.5x47 is easier to find accurate loads with, but I have no experience with it. I've owned two 260's and didn't find either to be finicky. Nodes were clear and consistent and I didn't have to fuss with seating depth any more than any other cartridge to abtain tight groups. You can get Lapua brass for either cartridge, they're really kind of a wash except if loading from a short magazine. 6.5x47 can be loaded with more bullet out of the case and still fit in a mag.
Zak Smith 6.5mm Shootout article linked above really says it all about the 260, 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5x47.
Just to throw a monkey wrench in the debate, there's the 6.5 Super LR to consider also. It's basically a 260 with the 30 degree shoulder and long neck of the 6.5x47. Best of both worlds in theory. Downside is being a wildcat there's no load data readily available and dies are expensive, also having to purchase a custom reamer.
I'm having a 6.5 Super LR built now to try something different. Using my same 260 brass to form 6.5 SLR, just a pass through the die. Easy peasy.
http://6mmar.com/site/mobile?url=http://6mmar.com/65_SuperLR.php#2660
Zak Smith 6.5mm Shootout article linked above really says it all about the 260, 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5x47.
Just to throw a monkey wrench in the debate, there's the 6.5 Super LR to consider also. It's basically a 260 with the 30 degree shoulder and long neck of the 6.5x47. Best of both worlds in theory. Downside is being a wildcat there's no load data readily available and dies are expensive, also having to purchase a custom reamer.
I'm having a 6.5 Super LR built now to try something different. Using my same 260 brass to form 6.5 SLR, just a pass through the die. Easy peasy.
http://6mmar.com/site/mobile?url=http://6mmar.com/65_SuperLR.php#2660
A few differences that come to mind that have not been mentioned.
x47L brass lasts seemingly forever. I have two friends with over 20 firings on there 6.5x47. One of them finally got a case head separation at the 30th firing. Both those guys push there loads too. I've been shooting my 6x47L brass for almost 7 years now! Using said friends brass life examples I have another 5-6 years before replacement is due.
One downside to x47 is you might want to get the bolt bushed because of primer flow issues. Also I've read more than once of x47L shooters getting almost 4000 rounds of barrel life.
Nothing wrong with good ole 260 or 6.5Creed for that matter.
x47L brass lasts seemingly forever. I have two friends with over 20 firings on there 6.5x47. One of them finally got a case head separation at the 30th firing. Both those guys push there loads too. I've been shooting my 6x47L brass for almost 7 years now! Using said friends brass life examples I have another 5-6 years before replacement is due.
One downside to x47 is you might want to get the bolt bushed because of primer flow issues. Also I've read more than once of x47L shooters getting almost 4000 rounds of barrel life.
Nothing wrong with good ole 260 or 6.5Creed for that matter.
I was contemplating building the 260 but ended up with 6.5-47 Lapua after talking to my smith. I think I made the right choice.
Here's two 1000 yard 25 shot group from my last local long range comp. I use 130 grain Berger Match VLD exclusively. I think I placed 2nd and 3rd on two consecutive match behind another 6.5-47 and a 6.5-284.
Here's two 1000 yard 25 shot group from my last local long range comp. I use 130 grain Berger Match VLD exclusively. I think I placed 2nd and 3rd on two consecutive match behind another 6.5-47 and a 6.5-284.
Love mine, but I haven't had a 260 yet. It's being built at the moment assuming I don't jump ship and go with a second 47. The ONLY reason I went 260 is the brass is cheaper and can be made or found easy in the event of another component shortage.
I've only been around a few 6.5x47's but they all shot around 2800 with 26" barrels. I'm having a x47 built right now and plan on seeing above 2800 with it. The wind hold is pretty much the same from 2700-2900. I dial for elevation so it doesn't matter to much to me to have to crank 3-4 extra moa to get to a 1000. Just my .02
I'm getting 2808 fps average from a 26" barrel with my 6.5x47 and 123 smk's . The only thing is I hate chasing the high priced brass. I want a 260 now the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
Yep! The 2 - 25 shot group above was shot with different load. One at 2912 fps with 41.3 grains of H 4350 and another with 40.5 grains with another lot of powder at 2875 fps. No OCW/Ladder mumbo jumbo.
LOL!!! I am wearing you out aren't I?
I am sticking with the 6.5x47! Thanks guys! I'll admit that I tend to overthink things at times. I just don't know enough about this stuff to make an informed decision. This makes things MUCH easier as I have already bought my dies, 200 rounds of Lapua brass, and 4000 CCI 450 primers.
You're going to love this cartridge. Although it was originally designed for 300 meter competition it will perform superbly at 1K.
The barrel I sent to the gunsmith is a 27" blank. I am thinking I will have the smith keep it at 27" vs cutting it to 26".
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You're gonna end with 26" finished length. The smith will cut 1" off to remove the flared end cause by lapping the barrel. I have 25" in mine and I can push the 130 over 2900 fps.
I am trying to...but their hard to get ahold of. I was able to get some 140 VLDs and 123 Scenars. Anybody know when the 130 Hybrids are coming out?
I can drive the 140 gr AMAX at 2840 fps from a 26" barrel with RE17 but still have some 130 gr Bergers to use up loading 36gr Varget behind the 130gr for 2680 fps and it's very accurate. I like the 6.5x47 but never owned a .260
Creedmor is an excellent middle ground. If I weren't such a lapua fanboy I'd have gone it over the 260. I have to say I do love launching 140s at 2900+. Makes for a nice 1k round, matching the ballistics of my current 338 load.
My next 6.5 rifle will be the 260ai or 6.5saum though...
PCR/XLR/TAC338 http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111453_255_zps1b498f0d.jpg http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111325_951_zps290ebdd0.jpg
Damnit! I just sold off a Stiller Spectre action I was going to use to have a 6.5 x 47 Lapua built. I have a .243 and a ton of .243 reloading supplies, and I talked myself into saving a lot of money, upgrading .243 rifles (bought one built on Pierce action that 2 previous owners confirm/claim is .2 minute rifle), going to sell current .243, and then shoot up all my .243 reloading stuff as I learn and get better at reloading and improve my shooting. 6.5x47 is still going to be my next build though, just not starting next month. However, this thread makes me regret my decision, but I"m sure that will change when my upgraded .243 gets here.
My 6.5x47 would shoot bugholes under 300 yards, and was deadly out to 600 but the little 130 VLD was push3d all over the place 8n moderate w8nds at 1 k!
Diego
Diego
I currently am shooting a 6.5X47. It is the most accurate rifle that I have ever owned. I only shoot the 140 Berger Hybrids. It has shot groups in the .0s at 100 and I have shot several groups under 5 inches at 1000. The best group of my life was 2.75 at 1000 with this rifle. I run 37.1 grains of Varget behind the 140 and I get 2794 fps.
Robert Gradous built the rifle.
I got lucky and won the GAP GRIND this year with the rifle. Most people will tell you the 140 is to heavy for a 6.5X47. I disagree. If your looking for a fast flat shooting round go 6mm. If you want a consistent cartridge go 6.5X47 and dont look back
Robert Gradous built the rifle.
I got lucky and won the GAP GRIND this year with the rifle. Most people will tell you the 140 is to heavy for a 6.5X47. I disagree. If your looking for a fast flat shooting round go 6mm. If you want a consistent cartridge go 6.5X47 and dont look back
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I fat fingered that!!!
2794 is my velocity.
Im using a Bartlein Heavy Palma Barrel that is 26.5 inches long. Some guys run the 140 at 2750. Others run it at 2800. I dont think you should get it going over 2800 because if you shoot in the rain something is going to give
I would be very happy if could run the 140s at 2800. The only powder I have been able to get for it is Reloader 15 (2 lbs) and Reloader 17 (2 lbs). I did find some 130 VLDs at Third Generation last night. I already got a 500 piece box of 140 VLDs and 3 boxes of 123 scenars.
If any of you guys know where to find some other powders or are willing to sell yours, please PM me. I can trade you some H1000.
If any of you guys know where to find some other powders or are willing to sell yours, please PM me. I can trade you some H1000.
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Hey JR, 6x47 is pretty consistent too. Granted I've never shot in the 0's for 5 shots but I have shot a few in the .1's and quite a few in the .2's. A friend has witnessed many different outings where we checked our 100Y zero first with 3 shots and the 3 shots were touching, this went on for almost a year. One group at 1000Y gave a 1.25" tall/3.5" wide and that was 6 six shots, they were all on a MGM mini popper.
I'll probably never win a big tactical match but it sure isn't for lack of consistency of the cartridge. Oh and you certainly deserve a big congrats on your win!
Flatter, without sacrificing TOO much in the wind.
In my 26" 260 I ran 140s @ 2810fps with H4350 for best accuracy; with 130gr VLDs I was in a node about 2960fps with H4350 and north of 3000fps with a fairly mild load of RL17.
Point the 130s, and your G1 goes up to near .600; that combined with the velocity delta makes them a GAME CHANGA
Tac, any barrel blank must be cut at least one inch. I shoot 6.5 Creedmoor and with my 26" barreled Surgeon vs. a 27" barrel GAP there is no difference in DOPE at 1k yds. Given the similarity between 6.5 CM and the 47, I would expect there to be little difference between 26" and 27" barreled 47's.
I really want to try a 6X47. I have the dies and a reamer I just have not done it. Mainly because of barrel life of the 6mm vs the 6.5. I have shot out 5 6XC barrels and I do not get the barrel life some do. But people have diffrent definitions of accuracy and when to pull a barrel. I have shot amazing groups with the 6XC and not to long ago I would have told you I would not shoot anything else. If I were going to shoot a 6mm my first choice would be a 6X47 and second choice would be a 6 creedmore.
I can only tell you what I have seen on a regular basis. For some reason the 6mm are more finicky to me. They just dont shoot as good day in and day out. I have no scientific explanation for it. I chrono every time I go to the range and keep great records of velocity and SD. With the 6.5X47 I have seen to lowest SDs day in and day out that I never thought were possible. Barrel life should at least 1000 rounds better than a 6mm. The down side is that the 6.5 is not nearly as flat shooting.
I am a die hard Berger Hybrid fan!!!! 6mm 105s, 6.5 140s, and 7mm 180s. To me they are the game changer!! Not near as seating depth sensitive as a VLD. Shoot better for me than a Vld, and have a higher bc than a VLD of the same size. WHY SHOOT A VLD??? Sell them and buy HYBRIDS!!!
If berger made a 130 Hybird would I give it a try....FOR SURE. They have tried to do so. But have not been happy with the results.
SInce they dont Ill stick with the 140 Hybirds
Bottom line though. It does not matter what caliber you choose. If its built right using quality components then it will shoot very very good. There are pros and cons on any caliber. You have to choose what is the best fit for you.
Don't sweat it so much! Let Mr. English do his thing and shoot the darn thing! U will be VERY happy with the 6.5x47L, it is a fantastic cartridge, SIMPLE to load for, minimal recoil and extremely efficient. Don't get caught up in the "I would be happy if I could..." , use the projectile that the rifle likes and have at it, they all pretty much work just fine.. I cream 12"x 12" plates at 1K with ease using the 123 Scenars and 37.4 grs of RL15 or 38.0gr Varget out of ALL of my 6.5's. I have 3 6.5x47's and they all shoot the same loads darn there the same, 2 are 8 twists, 1 is an 8.5 twist and they all have different barrel lengths. I just did a brief load work up with Varget and 139 Scenars for a friend of mine that has a very inexpensive TC Icon setup with a 9 twist Hart barrel and this was the best I got out of it at 100 yards:
(36.0gr Varget / 139 Lapua Scenar / New Lapua brass / Remington 7 1/2 primer)
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Haha, I feel the same, except opposite, if I were to go 6.5 there would be no other consideration but x47L.
My previous and 3rd 6x47 barrel, which was Melonited, lasted 3200 rounds/2 years. But I've pretty much decided I'm going to put a fresh barrel on every autumn and sell the old one with some life left in it for a few bucks to recoup some of the cost of the next. That's one huge benefit to 6.5x47L in my book is the extra barrel life over 6mm.
I agree concerning the Berger Hybrids, what a great design! I first tried their 230's in my 30-375R. That bullet is amazing in the wind and super easy to find a load with! In fact I gave a best guess on what depth would work, found the best powder charge via a ladder test and shot this steel at 970Y.
Shortly after I went on to win a ELR match with that load. I was happy about the win of course but really exited to hit that 2356Y plate!
I'm doing some load work right now with the Berger 105 Hybrids in my new 6x47 barrel. Same thing...picked a depth and nearly half the groups are in the .2's.
WHY SHOOT A VLD... Your absolutely right. Been there-done that, man I got tired of chasing lands to keep my rifle shooting it's best. I like the DTACS also and have used them for the last 3 years because of their jump tolerance.
I have shot through 3 6.5 x 47 L barrels mainly shooting at 1,000 yards and I think it is an amazing round for accuracy and how easy it is to load for. The sweet spots on the 6.5L are extremely wide so if you develolop a load at 20°F and then shoot it in the summer at 90° you are still usually in the sweet spot. The only rounds I have loaded that had wider sweet spots were the 6mm BR and wildcats based off of that round. I have shot LR F-class for the last 4 years with the 6.5L and have not worried about the loss of speed compared to the 260.
The 260 is a great round also ust a little more finicky than the 6.5L, I would have set up for the 260 instead of the 6.5L 5 years ago if Lapua would have been making 260 brass then like they do now. Five years ago the 6.5L was pretty new and I did not know anyone who was shooting it so it was a shot in the dark to go with it, given the inherent accuracy I am glad I made the decision.
A caveat: I am switching to a 280 AI for LR F-class for a little better ability to hadle the wind.
The 260 is a great round also ust a little more finicky than the 6.5L, I would have set up for the 260 instead of the 6.5L 5 years ago if Lapua would have been making 260 brass then like they do now. Five years ago the 6.5L was pretty new and I did not know anyone who was shooting it so it was a shot in the dark to go with it, given the inherent accuracy I am glad I made the decision.
A caveat: I am switching to a 280 AI for LR F-class for a little better ability to hadle the wind.
My 6x47L has been amazing (by my standards, only been shooting rifle 2 years). Most everything I put in it has shot well....SD has been 2 to 7. First time I've had 4-5" groups at 900. Right now shooing 40.3gr N160 and 105 hybrids @ 3075. With a APA LB brake I'm seeing trace at short distances. Fed well from AW mags...but not perfectly, get a rare jam that usually goes in the second push. Served me very well at the Grind.
Bullets are cheaper (for now) if your a hybrid addict like most of us...so I like to think that offsets the cost of barrel life vs. the 6.5. You'll pay 280$ more for 3500 140 hybrids vs 105 hybrids, but you'll have to buy roughly 1.4 barrel(s) (3500 rounds / 2500 rounds). The way I shoot I'll be lucky to get 2000...so this math is wishful thinking.
That said, probably going to get me a 6.5x47L barrel spun up next since I haven't shot it yet. I like that high BC on the 140's, and wouldn't be inclined to neck turn and fire form like I do on the 6x47L.
Bullets are cheaper (for now) if your a hybrid addict like most of us...so I like to think that offsets the cost of barrel life vs. the 6.5. You'll pay 280$ more for 3500 140 hybrids vs 105 hybrids, but you'll have to buy roughly 1.4 barrel(s) (3500 rounds / 2500 rounds). The way I shoot I'll be lucky to get 2000...so this math is wishful thinking.
That said, probably going to get me a 6.5x47L barrel spun up next since I haven't shot it yet. I like that high BC on the 140's, and wouldn't be inclined to neck turn and fire form like I do on the 6x47L.
This thread combined with a phenomenal deal on a GAP 6.5x47 Lapua barreled action I stumbled across on here last night has led me to purchase said barreled action. I am now a 6.5x47 Lapua owner! I will be selling both of my .243's, one of which I haven't even shot yet.
The rifle has an Obermeyer 8.4 twist M24 contour barrel finished at 26". Previous owner says 142 smks, 140 amax, 140 hornady bthp, and 140 barnes match burners, all have shot inside 0.5" @ 100 yards with h4350. Should I be looking at something with a little lower weight in the 130'ish range since my twist is at 8.4 instead of 8?
Damn....I'm all kinds of jacked up to get this rifle!
The rifle has an Obermeyer 8.4 twist M24 contour barrel finished at 26". Previous owner says 142 smks, 140 amax, 140 hornady bthp, and 140 barnes match burners, all have shot inside 0.5" @ 100 yards with h4350. Should I be looking at something with a little lower weight in the 130'ish range since my twist is at 8.4 instead of 8?
Damn....I'm all kinds of jacked up to get this rifle!
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