Rifle Scopes Unicorn Of AR Rings?

[Snake CharmerXX]

Bought my new SIII 6-24 for my 5R and want to move my Weaver to an AR. So begins the challenge...

I feel like all future mount purchases should have some MOA in them. At least 10, and I'd prefer 20. AR's seem to to need a cantilever mount, and if I can I'd prefer a one piece mount. All that said:

Who can suggest a reasonably cost effective 20moa cantilever set of 30mm rings for an AR? I'm looking for "medium" rise, roughly 35mm rail top to scope center. About 1.38". Trying to stay around $100, not having any luck.

Btw, can anyone share how you correct for ring height calculation when using rings (instead of bases) to add MOA?

Thanks guys/gals.

D

 

[Rockhopper]

Bought my new SIII 6-24 for my 5R and want to move my Weaver to an AR. So begins the challenge...

I feel like all future mount purchases should have some MOA in them. At least 10, and I'd prefer 20. AR's seem to to need a cantilever mount, and if I can I'd prefer a one piece mount. All that said:

Who can suggest a reasonably cost effective 20moa cantilever set of 30mm rings for an AR? I'm looking for "medium" rise, roughly 35mm rail top to scope center. About 1.38". Trying to stay around $100, not having any luck.

Btw, can anyone share how you correct for ring height calculation when using rings (instead of bases) to add MOA?

Thanks guys/gals.

D

not sure i understand exactly, but a burris pepr will run you $80

larue has built in moa. so does aadmount. but those are not $100

 

[Rockhopper]

mamba used to make one too if you can find one. retailed for $130. 25 moa. 1.3" to center.

 

[WaveNature]

not sure i understand exactly, ...

Me neither. Rings sets are always mounted on bases whether the base is integral to the receiver or not. When using rings it's the base that has MOA incline, not the rings.

Anyway, here is a one piece mount that comes pretty close to what you're looking for.
http://www.dnzproducts.com/freedom-reaper-mounts/forward-ring-picatinny-rail/30mm-forward-ring-mount-black-20moa

And here is a link to the same mount for less $ than manufacturers retail.
DNZ Products Freedom Reaper Forward Picantinny Rail-20MOA-Black FREE S&H 121FPT2, 321FPT2. DNZ Products Tactical Rails.

 

[SomeOtherGuy]

ADM has a 20 moa mount now too, probably about tied with Larue for your lowest cost option:

American Defense MFG, LLC | Browse | Scope Mounts | AD-RECON Scope Mount 20 MOA

You said "I feel like all future mount purchases should have some MOA in them." Why? What combination of distance and cartridge are you using that requires an elevated mount?

 

[Snake CharmerXX]

ADM has a 20 moa mount now too, probably about tied with Larue for your lowest cost option:

American Defense MFG, LLC | Browse | Scope Mounts | AD-RECON Scope Mount 20 MOA

You said "I feel like all future mount purchases should have some MOA in them." Why? What combination of distance and cartridge are you using that requires an elevated mount?

howdy!

Think we use slightly different philosophies. If work off a "if i can make it better, why not?" perspective. I doubt I'll ever need more elevation than my scope has, but heck, I gotta buy rings anyway, so... Of course since there is no "need" I sure won't pay a premium for it.


Not that I'm dodging you. This is .223 (ar, yes?). I normally shoot 300. I'm heading up to the UP where we expect to have " use the GPS" kind of range. Not that such a limited use justifies much $$$, but again, if not too expensive, well... Why not?

But not if it screw up ring height, etc..

 

[SomeOtherGuy]

howdy!

Think we use slightly different philosophies. If work off a "if i can make it better, why not?" perspective. I doubt I'll ever need more elevation than my scope has, but heck, I gotta buy rings anyway, so... Of course since there is no "need" I sure won't pay a premium for it.


Not that I'm dodging you. This is .223 (ar, yes?). I normally shoot 300. I'm heading up to the UP where we expect to have " use the GPS" kind of range. Not that such a limited use justifies much $$$, but again, if not too expensive, well... Why not?

But not if it screw up ring height, etc..

I understand all that - here are some replies:

1) You are probably going to spend more money on an elevated mount for an AR, depending what you would buy if you didn't want elevation. If you were buying Larue or ADM anyway, the cost difference is small, but if you were going to get a PEPR or SSALT, you would be spending more than double.

2) I have elevated mounts but I only put them on rifles where they serve a real purpose - if I don't need the elevation, I would rather have my scope parallel to the bore, it's just more natural looking and feeling to me. Elevated mounts make sense for arc-shooting cartridges, long distances (generally 600+ depending on the load), and scopes with limited internal travel. I mostly use scopes with a lot of internal travel (100 moa or more, for most of them; none less than 64) and have no opportunities to shoot past 600 yards on a regular basis. YMMV, etc.

3) For a .223 specifically, I suggest you look at the drop at various distances. I think you'll find that most .223 loads sufficiently flat shooting that by the time elevation is really needed, the bullet is subsonic or close, and wind drift has probably made you miss anyway. For example, a 55gr FMJ at 3300fps (fast) only needs 18 moa to reach its transonic transition. A 77gr SMK at 2700fps muzzle velocity goes transonic at 725 yards and only needs 23 moa of elevation to get there. Most scopes have enough internal adjustment for that when mounted on a 0 moa rail. Yes, some people use .223 at 1000 yards for competition, but they are mostly using loads that won't fit in an AR15's magazine, often at very high pressures, and in a 30" barrel whenever they can - probably not what you're going to use. For commercial or safe pressure handloads in a 16-20" AR15 you will run out of supersonic velocity before you run out scope elevation.

My 2 cents, do what you want.

 

[RFutch]

Bought my new SIII 6-24 for my 5R and want to move my Weaver to an AR. So begins the challenge...

I feel like all future mount purchases should have some MOA in them. At least 10, and I'd prefer 20. AR's seem to to need a cantilever mount, and if I can I'd prefer a one piece mount. All that said:

Who can suggest a reasonably cost effective 20moa cantilever set of 30mm rings for an AR? I'm looking for "medium" rise, roughly 35mm rail top to scope center. About 1.38". Trying to stay around $100, not having any luck.

Btw, can anyone share how you correct for ring height calculation when using rings (instead of bases) to add MOA?

Thanks guys/gals.

D

Nightforce makes exactly what you are looking for but they are not 100 bucks.

I don't like paying $250 for a mount but I was willing to do it 3 times to have the correct cheekweld.

 

[Snake CharmerXX]

SOG: Yep. Good thought about transonic transition. I'd not thought it to be that bad. Voice of experience says it is. Drat.

For those I'd confused: If a picture means a thousand words, what does a link mean?

Here may be what I'm talking about. Except it might be too high. Nikon's sight hasn't linked to these all week, so i don't know much. http://swfa.com/Nikon-M-Series-XR-30mmMount-P61663.aspx

 

[Cory Lee]

I just switched from the Burris Pepr because I wasn't able to keep a consistent cheek weld with it because it wasn't the right height for me.

I know it's not a one piece but I recommend the Warne 215m rings for an AR. They may not fit a scope with a 50mm objective but they will fit a 44mm easily. They put the scope at the perfect height in my opinion.

 

[Snake CharmerXX]

Rfutch: So I see. Wow$$. Suddenly SOG sounds prophetic..

 

[Snake CharmerXX]

I just switched from the Burris Pepr because I wasn't able to keep a consistent cheek weld with it because it wasn't the right height for me.

I know it's not a one piece but I recommend the Warne 215m rings for an AR. They may not fit a scope with a 50mm objective but they will fit a 44mm easily. They put the scope at the perfect height in my opinion.

Thanks. Oddly, I'd just bagged insisting on 1 piece. No MOA though.

 

[Rockhopper]

SOG: Yep. Good thought about transonic transition. I'd not thought it to be that bad. Voice of experience says it is. Drat.

For those I'd confused: If a picture means a thousand words, what does a link mean?

Here may be what I'm talking about. Except it might be too high. Nikon's sight hasn't linked to these all week, so i don't know much. http://swfa.com/Nikon-M-Series-XR-30mmMount-P61663.aspx

you probably will not get the eye relief you need out of that mount on an AR platform. i would think you would want something a little more forward.

 

[SomeOtherGuy]

Nikon's sight hasn't linked to these all week, so i don't know much. http://swfa.com/Nikon-M-Series-XR-30mmMount-P61663.aspx

I had that mount briefly - it was OK. Didn't like how the base worked. I was able to get enough eye relief using it with a Nikon M-223 1-4x20mm scope. I've noticed that with the AR15, people vary widely in where they want their scope placed, so it's hard to say whether something that worked / didn't work for me will work, or not, for anyone else. If you do nose to charging handle (especially with a small nose, don't laugh, it matters for NTCH) and have a longer eye relief scope, it may not work. If you like your head farther back or have a shorter eye relief scope, it may be fine.

 

[SomeOtherGuy]

I'm looking for "medium" rise, roughly 35mm rail top to scope center. About 1.38". Trying to stay around $100, not having any luck.

Hadn't noticed the 1.38" height desire before. A while back I compiled that info when I was trying to find taller height mounts for my shooting style. Here are some options close to your desired height:

Nightforce - already mentioned

ADM Recon is 1.38" with 1" rings, 1.47" with 30mm rings, both for standard 0 moa version

MidwayUSA AR-Stoner brand 1 piece mount, with 1" rings it is 1.38", but with 30mm rings it is 1.47".

Armalite mount, with 1" rings it is just 1.25", too low for many people.

GG&G Accucam QD mount #1198 is 1.40", however the cheaper FLT mount is 1.46"

Warne Maxima rings in AR15 height are 1.44", either 1" or 30mm

Extra-high 30mm rings from PRI or TPS (totally different companies) are about 1.40"

 

[Black max]

Egw makes a 20moa riser that you could use. I think midway has them...

 

[Snake CharmerXX]

you probably will not get the eye relief you need out of that mount on an AR platform. i would think you would want something a little more forward.

Thanks for the thought. The rifle's handguard has an extended rail on top.

 

[Snake CharmerXX]

Ring height:

Recall I mentioned i was looking for 1.38" rail to center of scope? The scope is 1.31" radius w/caps on it, so thats seems pretty tight.

Rings seem to be rated in one of two ways; top of rail to bottom of ring (By that measurement I'm looking for .8"), and by top of rail to scope center. By the latter I might as well call it 1.4". (30mm tube)

SOG: Will look at your suggestions. I noted you refer to these as high. I suppose, but in AR terms it seems fairly low. The RRA mount I own now and refuse to keep using is 1.2" rail to bottom of ring. I can't even get a cheek weld, much less maintain one. In any event you'd mentioned, and I failed to comment, about the wisdom of striving for a mount lower to the barrel bore. I agree fully, sorry I failed to be clearer.

I do wonder if charging handle access will be screwed up if I get it as tight as I'm planning.

As always, my sincere thanks to all!

D

 

[Snake CharmerXX]

Hadn't noticed the 1.38" height desire before. A while back I compiled that info when I was trying to find taller height mounts for my shooting style. Here are some options close to your desired height:

Nightforce - already mentioned

ADM Recon is 1.38" with 1" rings, 1.47" with 30mm rings, both for standard 0 moa version

MidwayUSA AR-Stoner brand 1 piece mount, with 1" rings it is 1.38", but with 30mm rings it is 1.47".

Armalite mount, with 1" rings it is just 1.25", too low for many people.

GG&G Accucam QD mount #1198 is 1.40", however the cheaper FLT mount is 1.46"

Warne Maxima rings in AR15 height are 1.44", either 1" or 30mm

Extra-high 30mm rings from PRI or TPS (totally different companies) are about 1.40"

Great list. Thanks!
* NF = too much $$$

* ADM. You bet. Still a little expensive, but the "sw" can be had for about $160 and has 20 moa. Height might be a real good compromise, and reviews on their customer service seem good.

* Stoner= no moa, but what a value!

* Warne didn't have moa

Course I've been assuming if I didn't add MOA I'd be able to find a $100 mount. Maybe not. Just thinking out loud, but I suppose I should select a std level set of rings from above and set a "this works fine" price as a baseline. You're "is it worth it point" probably valid. Should have enough time today to get that figured out. Finally...

Thanks again.

 

[BobinNC]

To the OP: I know you really "want" a one piece mount, but your height and MOA requirements really point to the Badger AR Riser Rail (22 moa cant & 0.430" high & around $100.) and what ever rings (which you may have already) you need to achieve your desired height over the rail. Plus the Badger does extend over the receiver, and allows placement of the rings to achieve optimum eye and scope placement.

One piece OD bases are a great asset, but as your are finding out the trade off is often a lack flexibility that can sometimes trump what ever advantages your getting from the QD feature.

 

[AR is for Argyle]

I went without cant / my hold for 2750 fps is 9.4 MILS (32.7 MOA) at 900 yards:

Center of eyepiece 1.3 “ = 33mm high using (PRI) Precision Reflex Inc. extended cantilever mount –

Link to pri mount:
Precision Reflex - Product Detail - 30mm Cantilever Low Ring Set - $148.50

 

[RFutch]

I went without cant / my hold for 2750 fps is 9.4 MILS (32.7 MOA) at 900 yards:

Center of eyepiece 1.3 “ = 33mm high using (PRI) Precision Reflex Inc. extended cantilever mount –

Link to pri mount:
Precision Reflex - Product Detail - 30mm Cantilever Low Ring Set - $148.50

How do you torque the cross bolts on the base to the rifle. It looks like they just have a thumb screw...

 

[Snake CharmerXX]

So some closure for anybody that happens to Google or Search in the future. Before that though, props to WaveNature: On one of his first posts here he suggested what turned out to be one of my top 3 and I not only didn't realize it, I didn't extend so much as "Thank you" to him. Feeling a bit bad about that. WaveNature sir, my apologies.

Next a link I bumped into that had a LOT of information:
AR15 One-Piece Mounts

Also I did learn Armalite now makes a cost effective 1.45" rise mount now, but it's not the right choice at that price point so who cares? As to the AR Stoner, I realized any scope removal, adjustment, etc resulted in a LOT of screws to dork around with. it's just not a well thought out design.

As a reminder, I'm using a 50MM objective on a 30MM tube. With Butler Creeks I'm 1.31" objective radius on a caliper. My final three choices were:

#3: DNZ Freedom Reaper Forward Mount: 1.375" height, and enough forward mount that you can be leaned into the rifle and still have 4" of eye relief and keep the mount on the receiver.
If I was going to spend that much money I'd buy the ADM hands down. The ADM website is more informative and helpful in every regard, the mount is more flexible, and at this price point you might as well do QD.

#2 ADM Recon: 1.45" height, and enough forward mount that you can be leaned into the rifle and still have 4" of eye relief and keep the mount on the receiver.
I don't feel the need to spend the $ for QD, and it's a bit too many screws to come loose/star wars for something I think of as stick and stones purpose. But you can find them at discount and the Larue not so much.

#1 Leupold IMS Mark 2 w/integral Rails: 1.42" height, and enough forward mount that you can be leaned into the rifle and still have 4" of eye relief and keep the mount on the receiver. I think. This might be close.
But I also have full length rails, the thing is simple, looks well built, and for goodness sake I can have it to my door for $83!! This is THE best buy for this kind of purpose. I'm not convinced this alone will get me the cheek weld I want, but I'm down to about 1/10" of an inch clearance and don't want to take off the scope caps. I'll look at adjustable check pads, Accu-riser I think, as I work out exactly what I want in rise.

My sincere thanks to all (Rockhopper, etc..) for the help! To BobinNC and SOG, I see you guy on here helping a lot of folks. Your contributions to the community are appreciated. In fact, the more I think about things the wise ya'll appear.

Regards,

D

 

[CSTactical]

GDI P-ROM L-Model (Rifle Optic Mount) 30mm 0 MOA or 25 MOA.
Here is a link to GDI P-ROM L-Model mounts

ADM mounts are also very good.

Mike @ CSTACTICAL