The more I read, the less I feel I know what to do.....

[bruddah]

I have 2 different lots of virgin .308 brass (200 from each lot).

I bought a FL RCBS set of X-dies because I thought it'd be cool to not have to keep trimming the brass (the X-dies claim to fame is that it limits growth).

Then I read neck sizing and bumping the shoulder back was the best way to go.

Then I read FL sizing every time is the way to go because most people see no benefit from neck sizing only.

So what the heck is the way to go???

I also have a couple of specific questions.

1) If I FL size, but only size the case down far enough to bump the shoulder for reliable chambering, is my neck going to be properly sized?

2) If I only size far enough down to make sure the shoulder is barely bumped back enough to provide proper functioning, will the X-die still limit growth???

This question is in specific to my Savage Model 10 .308 but I suppose it could be applied to any bolt action rifle.

Is there a consensus on this matter??

Thanks in advance!

 

[hondo1312]

There are 2 consensii on the matter. My opinion...just pick one and go with it. That said, I use the Redding 3 die sets, so I neck size in one step and bump the shoulder back .002 in another. My handloads shoot great; they are definitely not the limiting factor in my target-hitting ability.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

I have no knowledge of "x-dies." That said, from what I have read and experienced, I am of the belief that F/L sizing is the way to go.
I use a F/L die, with the expander ball removed, currently, as I have had a set of competition dies, F/L with neck bushing on order for about 10 months now. I have had good success with the F/L dies, but am very careful to adjust them for only enough clearance for chambering ease.
It seems that the consensus from what I have read about neck sizing only is that you will need to F/L size every so-many sizings anyway. This would indicate that you have a variable case capacity between the first firing after F/L sizing and the last neck sizing before F/L sizing again. This would lead to possible variances in pressures/velocities because of case capacity. That seems to be the most prevalent argument that I have read against neck sizing only.
Having now put forth my opinion, I also look forward to further discussion/debate on this issue.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

I have no knowledge of "x-dies." That said, from what I have read and experienced, I am of the belief that F/L sizing is the way to go.
I use a F/L die, with the expander ball removed, currently, as I have had a set of competition dies, F/L with neck bushing on order for about 10 months now. I have had good success with the F/L dies, but am very careful to adjust them for only enough clearance for chambering ease.
It seems that the consensus from what I have read about neck sizing only is that you will need to F/L size every so-many sizings anyway. This would indicate that you have a variable case capacity between the first firing after F/L sizing and the last neck sizing before F/L sizing again. This would lead to possible variances in pressures/velocities because of case capacity. That seems to be the most prevalent argument that I have read against neck sizing only.
Having now put forth my opinion, I also look forward to further discussion/debate on this issue.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

There are 2 consensii on the matter. My opinion...just pick one and go with it. That said, I use the Redding 3 die sets, so I neck size in one step and bump the shoulder back .002 in another. My handloads shoot great; they are definitely not the limiting factor in my target-hitting ability.

Thanks hondo for your input. I would love to try the three step method, but I am still waiting on my neck bushing F/L dies. I wish this bs on wait times for supplies would end.....

 

[milo 2.0]

1. The x die will size your neck.

2. You have to set the mandrel in the x die to function the way it's designed. If you unscrew it and set the lock ring, I'm talking the top, or black parts, it wont or cant work.

I bought into the x-die theory, and still have a couple, I have mine set to work on .223 brass, but if you initially trim like directions say, it will be a long time before your brass grows .020" where it's needed. Today, I think of it as a joke, brass flows toward the case mouth when fired, so it grows in length, it would be nice to see captured in video, so one could understand more. If brass grows to a certain length, and then comes into contact with the mandrel, it has go somewhere?? Sooner or later without trimming, you're going to have to be crunching cases.
Don't shit can the die though, it still works as a regular die with the mandrel backed off, and it doesn't have the screw sticking out the top to take the skin off your forearms and hands.

For a bolt gun, trim your brass when needed, and yes it will work for any bolt gun, or semi gun as well.

If there is a consensus, I'm sure because of cost, most people shy away from them, but I will say, it's one of RCBS's best dies!

 

[milo 2.0]

For the debate of neck vs fl sizing, I do both, but. I'll rebarrel a gun, and with new brass neck size till I get a few rough chambering cases, from then on they will only be fl sized. I've galled my bolt lugs, and had to fix that, and at the same time had to set a barrel back, with 50 rds through it because cases weren't sized right. When stupid costs you 300.00, you take a different approach!!

Neck dies are good to have around, I load on a concrete floor, and any case that hits the floor lands neck down, so reshaping them is easy without lube. My advice, just buy them both and figure out a mix with them, there really is no right or wrong way, just do what works for you!
Just remember, when you have to force the bolt, or hammer the bolt closed on a case, in your head you reason that brass will give before steel, Think Again, HARD.

More advice, I like bushing dies, both kinds, if for some reason your loaded rounds wont chamber, a fl bushing die will double as a body die with the bushing and expander removed. And with lube and care, resize loaded rounds.

 

[bruddah]

This helped me to understand it a little bit more.

Reloading: RCBS X-Die Complete Tutorial - YouTube

 

[bruddah]

So after watching the video a couple of times, I don't see any reason why one cannot adjust the X-die to simply bump the shoulder back. The mandrel is adjusted independently of the die body. Set up the die to the proper shoulder setting, and then bring the mandrel down to come into contact with the case mouth.

Anyone see any flaw in my reasoning?

 

[Sniper Uncle]

In theory, I agree fully. I would be interested in feedback from one who has actually tried it in practice...

 

[Enough Said]

Sucks not having a Redding Competition Set for each caliber.

Now a distant memory.

 

[PharmShooter]

It sounds like to me you're an intelligent person that is smart enough to know that there is a limit to how smart you are which in and of itself is a sign of intelligence if that makes any sense at all. With that being said, I have often felt the same way relative to reloading. There are some many schools of thought. Everyone has an opinion and a compelling case for why they're right and of course with empirical evidence to back up their assertions. I continue to experiment and try to keep doing what I think works best for me. Results so far are pretty good, but I continue to seek out further refinements of my basic procedures. Have fun and good luck...