Need advice on flyers

[88blazer]

Hey guys, I'm new here and wanted to see about some input on my flyers I'm getting. This target was at 100yds at KRRC, Bremerton, WA. These are typical targets for my 204. 3 possibly 4 in one hole, then a flyer or two! Savage Mod 12 action with a Select Match Shilen Barrel

Here's what I've got;
cleaned brass inside and out
uniformed primer pockets
flash holes uniformed
turned necks
trim cases all the same (0 tolerance)
fire formed brass, neck sized only, shoulder checked and bumped back as needed
weight sorted brass within 1/2gr 98.0 to 98.5 in lot
sorted GM205M primers, 3.6g and 3.7g batches
weight sorted bullets, 40 gr V-Max and (50gr Berger same group problems) switched to V-Max since Berger discont. 50's, want to test Berger 40's, but none in stock anywhere yet.

Two cases weighed .2gr heavy, two cases had necks .001 thinner, and I had two flyers. I have not annealed my necks yet after 6 reloads. I have 650 Tempilaq on the way after reading here about it. Do you guys think the annealing is the problem with neck tension or neck thickness off by .001 case weight off by .2gr? Maybe little bit of everything?

Any input sure would help! There is a 100 to 300 match in my area beginning in two months. Sure would be nice to get this resolved before then. Been frustrating chasing this little accuracy demon!

 

[diverdon]

Are you asking why your five round group is not the size of your three round group?

 

[wvlapua]

Rifle doesn't like the bullets..your twist is likely too slow. I have great success with 39g sierra bk over 30.0g of BL-C(2) in a hornady case and win primer. My rifle is a Remington xr-100 rangemaster with 14 twist. The blitzking has the best bc in its class and is very easy to load. This load shoots well in the 3 rifles it has been fired with. Howa, rem 700 and xr100.

 

[88blazer]

That target R2 (row 2 in my test loads) is a 5 shot group. IMR-4064, 26.0gr in my first post.

R3 target, was IMR-4064, 26.5gr. The group opened up a little. My gun has always likes lower charges.
As you can see in the second target, three grouped and two flyers. Look at the brass data. The ID of the neck on two of them was .205 and 3 was .207. Just like in that last target, two light cases, 3 heavy at 98gr.

My group pattern keeps repeating. I just want to know why I always get two flyers. Its rare i get three perfectly through one hole, but once in a while it happens. just like David Tubb printed a 10 shot 1000 yd 2.5" group at the NRA shoot this last summer with his 6mmXC, rare but it happens.

wvlapua, I'll try the BK. Mine is a 9 twist, but it should work fine. Just wish Berger didn't discontinue the 50's. sure did love them!

 

[308Gunner]

Not trashing you but it very well could be shooter error, 3 shot groups won't tell you much it is the 4th and 5th that will have you shaking your head. I say this because you have a bughole for 3 shot you look @ the target and say don't screw this up and you push the trigger or you are not ligned up correctly ect. From what the way you explapned your reloading technique is solid, something to look @ good luck

 

[wvlapua]

My 308 did the same thing with berger 155.5 fullbores. It was very repeatable..to fix the issue I loaded them as close to lands as I could and they now shoot extremely well. But they won't fit in a mag.

 

[88blazer]

Not trashing you but it very well could be shooter error, 3 shot groups won't tell you much it is the 4th and 5th that will have you shaking your head. I say this because you have a bughole for 3 shot you look @ the target and say don't screw this up and you push the trigger or you are not ligned up correctly ect. From what the way you explapned your reloading technique is solid, something to look @ good luck

You could be right. The neck thickness and case weight shouldn't make that much difference I thought. It seems like I get three together, then the flyers. I just might be getting nervous trying to get that one hole group and screwing it up on the last two. My hold, position, a lot of things I might be changing without realizing it. I might take a little break between each shot and relax. See if that helps. Like playing pool, I run it down to the 8 ball, then choke, every time!

 

[88blazer]

gunner, I thought about that. I could be choking at the last second! I need to pay closer attention next trip out.
wvlapua, I do have quite a bit of room to play with before getting too close to the lands. I might play a little with that too. It may just be I'm not settling into the same position every time. I'll at least anneal the necks and take that out of the equation when my temp paint gets here. If neck tension is an issue, it should help. If it doesn't help, probably is me. just got to figure out what I'm doing different each shot.

 

[JeffinTX]

you listed your rifle action and barrel, and your loads, but not the stock, bedding, scope, and front/rear rest. (There are other things like shooting technique, how well are you watching wind (yes, even at 100yd if you're shooting BR), stock tape, the type of sand in the bags, etc...) If you're wanting to shoot short range bench rest groups, then those other little details matter alot. There's a world of difference between shooting 0.5's versus ones and twos. I wouldn't really expect a varmint gun to realistically take on a dedicated BR gun.

 

[88blazer]

Thanks Jeffin, you gave me something to research. Leather sand bags front and rear. I use regular play sand from Walmart. Does different sand make a difference in the way it absorbs energy? I do have the accustock, can't afford new furniture yet. Stock tape??? I had 50yd and 100yd flags, both still when fired. Like you said, I might be asking too much from a varmint gun. Thats what my dad said too.lol.

 

[JeffinTX]

the "real" BR shooters often use talc and/or Teflon tape on the stock where it rides on the bags to allow the gun to recoil, or "track" so that it recoils straight and consistently i.e. the stock doesn't hop, etc. Inconsistencies in how the gun tracks will lose a BR match. They use "heavy sand", which sets up firmer in the bags than playbox sand. Not to mention their 6ppc with 50x March scope, $1k front rest, etc. That 6ppc replaced the .222's years ago, mainly because it wins, so your caliber and cartridge is at a disadvantage as well.

 

[Thumper580]

Seat the bullets around 010 off the lands.... Take a break between shots and BREATHE. It's surprising how the sight picture clears up and calms down.