Looking at purchasing another top scope and the Steiner peaked my interest. Anyone have one or used one? How do these compare to the other top tier scopes, USO, Nightforce, Kahles, and Vortex? Any information would be helpful. Thanks
Rifle Scopes Steiner M5xi 5-25x56 worth the price?
- Thread starter Poorboyr
- Start date
I ran a M5Xi 5-25 with the MSR reticle for a few years in matches and general long range shooting. To me, it was a great scope. Tracking was excellent. Turrets were very good. I will always think the second rev indicator is the coolest thing ever (I realize it's probably the least important thing, but dammit it's cool!!). Generous eyebox. Locking diopter ring, if I remember correctly. Very easy to remove parallax. The glass was very good. Steiner's warranty is also very good, but the M5Xi is built like a tank.
While the glass is very good, it's a hair under the Vortex G2 Razor (the scope I ended up trading my Steiner for), which to me is below the Minox ZP5 and S&B. Maybe because mine was used heavily, but the turrets while still very good, weren't as positive as the G2 Razor either. There was a slight, and I mean very slight, bit of mush/play between clicks. I liked the MSR reticle and it served me well for many years, but there are reticles that are easier to use for holdovers. If you're just going to use it for banging steel, it'll perform admirably.
Is it worth the price? It all depends on what you're paying. They retail for over $3k new. At that price, I'd look elsewhere. You can get into a Minox or Kahles at that price point, which to me have better glass. The used market typically sells in the low $2k range, which puts it at the same price as the G2 Razor. Razor is heavier, but has a little better glass and the EBR-2C reticle, which I prefer over the MSR for my purposes, also has the open center dot. The MSR's center cross gets a little thick as you increase magnification. If you can pick one up at a decent price, it's still a great scope.
While the glass is very good, it's a hair under the Vortex G2 Razor (the scope I ended up trading my Steiner for), which to me is below the Minox ZP5 and S&B. Maybe because mine was used heavily, but the turrets while still very good, weren't as positive as the G2 Razor either. There was a slight, and I mean very slight, bit of mush/play between clicks. I liked the MSR reticle and it served me well for many years, but there are reticles that are easier to use for holdovers. If you're just going to use it for banging steel, it'll perform admirably.
Is it worth the price? It all depends on what you're paying. They retail for over $3k new. At that price, I'd look elsewhere. You can get into a Minox or Kahles at that price point, which to me have better glass. The used market typically sells in the low $2k range, which puts it at the same price as the G2 Razor. Razor is heavier, but has a little better glass and the EBR-2C reticle, which I prefer over the MSR for my purposes, also has the open center dot. The MSR's center cross gets a little thick as you increase magnification. If you can pick one up at a decent price, it's still a great scope.
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I have a M5xi 3-15x50 that I use regularly, and had a 5-25x56 at one time. In my opinion, the glass is second to none. I mean, it's extremely good glass. The things are built like tanks. I also currently have a couple of NF scopes (ATACR and NXS), a Kahles 624i Gen 3, and have had Premier and S&B. I prefer the turrets on the Kahles and NF. The turrets on the Steiner are very good, but the clicks are very close together. They are 15 mil per revolution turrets. That doesn't leave a lot of space between clicks. My 3-15 has more defined clicks than the older 5-25 had. It is sometimes hard for me to see exactly what click I'm on, since the marks on the turret are so close together. I prefer the feel of the turrets on the Kahles. To me, those are just about as perfect as a turret can be. Not to close together, not to far apart, and the perfect amount of tactile resistance. The NF turrets are a very close second the the Kahles, again IMHO. The sight picture with the Steiner is just fantastic. I haven't looked through a scope that gave you a better sight picture. Clarity is fantastic. MSR reticle is very usable and not too cluttered. It's a very robust scope. If it had the turrets of the Kahles, it would be the perfect scope, as far as I'm concerned. I can name several scopes that I prefer the turrets to over the Steiner. Again, that's personal preference. Mine both track, or tracked, perfectly. There is no mechanical issue with either of them. I just prefer the way the Kahles and NF turrets feel.
I would not buy one new. You can get them used for MUCH less than the new prices. You can probably get a used 5-25 around $2000 - $2200. I know a guy had a 3-15 in the for sale section for quite a while at $1750. I don't know if it ever sold. At that price, it's a steal. At $3600, I wouldn't buy one. I think their value has really taken a hit by the T5xi fiasco, but the M5 series is solid. They have a lifetime transferable warranty, so you'll be covered even if you buy a used one. At $2000 - $2500, it's one of the best you'll get for the money. At $3500 or so, I wouldn't buy one. I personally like the Kahles and NF turrets a little better, so I'd go that route. But around $2000, it's going to be better than any thing in the price range.
I would not buy one new. You can get them used for MUCH less than the new prices. You can probably get a used 5-25 around $2000 - $2200. I know a guy had a 3-15 in the for sale section for quite a while at $1750. I don't know if it ever sold. At that price, it's a steal. At $3600, I wouldn't buy one. I think their value has really taken a hit by the T5xi fiasco, but the M5 series is solid. They have a lifetime transferable warranty, so you'll be covered even if you buy a used one. At $2000 - $2500, it's one of the best you'll get for the money. At $3500 or so, I wouldn't buy one. I personally like the Kahles and NF turrets a little better, so I'd go that route. But around $2000, it's going to be better than any thing in the price range.
Thanks for the information on the scope. It's interesting that you say how great the glass is. That seems to be what the issue is with the scope. But glass is very different to different eyes. How close was it to the Kahles glass, because that's the other scope I'm looking at.
Honestly, the glass between the Steiner, Kahles, NF, and S&B is very hard for me to differentiate. It does come down to individual taste. I'm not sure I could say one is better than the other. All very clear and sharp. I do like the reticle choices offer by Kahles and the turrets better than the others. If I had to choose one of them, at approximately the same price, I'd pick the Kahles.
With the S&B 5-25 P4F running $2250 at Optics Planet, the question becomes is the M5xi $900 better than the S&B? For me that answer is hell no.
Guess I'm the odd one out. I had the scope model in question and found the glass lacking to say the least. From 5-15X it was good, 15-20X became somewhat darker and the colors began to wash out and at the top of the mag range colors were washed out and a darker image compared to its competition. Contrast was ok, image resolution was good at best but comparing it directly to a 25X Schmidt I felt it got smoked. Even its earlier built 16X brethren bitch slapped it in the glass department. The 16X is the best scope Steiner has made, wish they would bring it back.
It tracked perfect, as others have opined the dou-scale knob is pretty slick, illumination was basically worthless as I had the MSR model. Take deadheads advice and don't pay full price for a new one, the price isn't worth it. I wouldn't pay more than $2k for one tops.
It tracked perfect, as others have opined the dou-scale knob is pretty slick, illumination was basically worthless as I had the MSR model. Take deadheads advice and don't pay full price for a new one, the price isn't worth it. I wouldn't pay more than $2k for one tops.
Holy hell, that is a good deal! And, I prefer CW turrets. But, I'm left-handed so I suspect the illumination knob would get in my way. Does anyone have any input on this? Thanks
I am left handed, and I have both CW and CCW turrets. Both work just fine for me. What is your question exactly?
It looks like they are now sold out. I would call Optics Planet. They may still be honoring the deal. I don't remember the exact price but it was less than $2250.
Sorry, my question is will the illumination knob on a S&B get in the way for a lefty. It sticks out to the left.
Sorry I misunderstood. I am left handed but all of my rifles are right-side bolt (which I actually prefer for the mostly prone shooting I do). Looking at my rifles and picturing where the bolt would be if it was on the other side, the bolt certainly wouldn't be impeded by the knob, but it might cramp your hand a bit depending on how you grip the bolt knob. Nothing too serious. You might have to adjust your hand position a little bit but I don't think it would be a problem.
Thanks. I gave them a call but they are out. They weren't able to tell me what the price was either.
I missed out on the gen2 Xr as well, guess I will just keep checking their site.
Seems like I miss out on the sweet deals. The Minox zp5 went for $2300 on Amazon a few weeks ago. They quickly fixed the pricing. I have the steiner military and the M5xi. Good scopes. Really like them and the glass on my M5xi is great. It is subjective though. Everyone's eyes are different. I wouldnt pay the asking price for the M5xi new. I have the 3-15 and picked it up brand new for $1625. As mentioned in another post, I think the T5xi turret cluster fuck has put steiner in a lower position in the top tier scopes.
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The Steiner 5-25MSR was my first high end scope. I've never been behind a Kahles or a SB but I got a screaming deal from Liberty Optics and never looked back. I got a NXS 2.5-10x32 before that, it was the only scope I have ever looked through before that. Having said that, I have looked through a lot of camera lenses from crap Sigmas to multi thousand dollar Nikon glass. I feel like the glass in the Steiner equals my Nikon 70-200 f2.8 when it comes to chromatic aberration and resolution.
Since getting it I have looked through a NF ATACR 4-16, and Gen2 Razor. Maybe it's just my brain trying to tell me I made the right decision but I feel the glass on the Steiner is better.
I find the turrets to be very good. Positive and firm. I can count clicks with my eyes closed and not get lost if need be.
I recently picked up a used Steiner Military 4-16 as well. The torrents on that scope are not as good but still miles ahead of my NXS. One Steiner being CCW and one being CW is a bit annoying but I can deal.
Im almost certain a Steiner Military 5-25 can be had for less that $3k. Botach had them on sale for something like $2K a few months back.
Since getting it I have looked through a NF ATACR 4-16, and Gen2 Razor. Maybe it's just my brain trying to tell me I made the right decision but I feel the glass on the Steiner is better.
I find the turrets to be very good. Positive and firm. I can count clicks with my eyes closed and not get lost if need be.
I recently picked up a used Steiner Military 4-16 as well. The torrents on that scope are not as good but still miles ahead of my NXS. One Steiner being CCW and one being CW is a bit annoying but I can deal.
Im almost certain a Steiner Military 5-25 can be had for less that $3k. Botach had them on sale for something like $2K a few months back.
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