Best plug and play .223 setup these days

S

SLG

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 2, 2009
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361
#1
I've done some searching over the past couple of weeks or so, but am not finding quite what i'm looking for.

I'm interested in a short, light, handy, .223 bolt gun setup. The mini fix will likely do once it becomes available, but as it is now, it is only .224V, and it is at least a pound heavier than my 308 setup, so not that appealing to me currently.

Used to basically be either a CZ, Kimber or a reworked 700 were your options. I have a Kimber (currently hanging out at my FiL's, for an extended time), I had a CZ, and the 700's never appealed to me for a variety of reasons.

Is Tikka the way to go these days? If so, can I drop it in a chassis for a standard T3? What mags will it work with, given the lack of AI .223 mags these days? MDT 223 mags? Spacers in a 308 AICS mag?

If the Tikka will work like this, then the ability to pull it out and drop a 6.5 into it has some appeal. Anyone done this?

Is there another way I'm missing, or what? What .223 bolt guns are you guys using? Pics would be very appreciated as well.

Thanks for reading the many questions!
 
#3
GGK said:
Tikka t3x varmint in 223. Run MDT mags. Might need a little tweaking to get gun to run with pressure on mag, but they work.
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I was leaning towards the T3X lite, partially for weight savings, partially because I won't need the mag system. Any issues with that I'm unaware of?
 
#4
How well do the tikkas do, especially the light contour ones, with long strings of fire?

My other option is a barrel/mag insert/bolt face for my Blaser. Price is likely fairly close, between the complete rifle/chassis/bits and bobs, vs. the R8 barrel swap. I do know that the R8 does not move its groups when fired fast and hot, so there is that. The minus is the lack of chassis options and the small internal magazine.
 
#6
I have the .223 Tikka Varmint in MDT LSS-XL Gen-2 chassis/skeleton buttstock with Vortex Viper PST Gen-2 5-25. It's a consistent 1/2-MOA platform with factory 69-grain SMKs. The only time I shot on paper at 300 yards, I got a 0.75" 5-shot group - but I attribute much of that to luck as there was a lot of mirage and light full-value crosswind.

But it isn't light, weighing 13 pounds with no mag.

The MDT mags take some breaking in - when new, tight and a bit sticky. Also, single-loading rounds atop an empty inserted mag doesn't work very well - it can be done but requires good timing tapping the bottom of the mag while closing the bolt. My TAC-A1 in 6.5 single-loads easily.

Not sure when the TAC-A1 is coming out in .223 but, had it been anywhere near available when I was ready to acquire a .223, I would have made every effort to go that route simply because I really like the feel of that platform. But again, it's big and heavy.
 
#8
TL3 or origin with your choice of barrel stock and trigger. Cost will be $2000 give or take. Or get a howa mini for less than $1000. Depends on what the purpose of the rifle is. Or maybe even a howa short action would work. I personally would not get the tikka unless you would be happy with the Oem stock.
 
#9
Codiekfx400 said:
TL3 or origin with your choice of barrel stock and trigger. Cost will be $2000 give or take. Or get a howa mini for less than $1000. Depends on what the purpose of the rifle is. Or maybe even a howa short action would work. I personally would not get the tikka unless you would be happy with the Oem stock.
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Why do you say that about the stock? I figure the T3 is super easy to swap to a new stock. Am I missing something?
 
#10
SLG said:
Why do you say that about the stock? I figure the T3 is super easy to swap to a new stock. Am I missing something?
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Well my reason is you have a long action tikka t3x. And you are trying to shoot a super short 223. The magazine feeding issues come into play. It can and has been done by many people to get a t3 to feed from a aics mdt magazine. But personally if I’m going to spend $800 on a rifle then drop it into a $600 to $900 chassis I personally would like a Remington 700 foot print. Which would bring me to a bighorn origin. Now if you buy a tikka and Can get by with the Oem stock then it’s a much better value.
 
#12
Codiekfx400 said:
Well my reason is you have a long action tikka t3x. And you are trying to shoot a super short 223. The magazine feeding issues come into play. It can and has been done by many people to get a t3 to feed from a aics mdt magazine. But personally if I’m going to spend $800 on a rifle then drop it into a $600 to $900 chassis I personally would like a Remington 700 foot print. Which would bring me to a bighorn origin. Now if you buy a tikka and Can get by with the Oem stock then it’s a much better value.
Click to expand...

My tikka 223 feeds just as well from the MDT mag as my friends TL3 in 223 with the same MDT mags.

I dont understand your stance.

What does action manufacturer or length have to do with this?
 
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#13
GGK said:
My tikka 223 feeds just as well from the MDT mag as my friends TL3 in 223 with the same MDT mags.

I dont understand your stance.

What does action manufacturer or length have to do with this?
Click to expand...
Just my opinion trying to help the op. Nothing wrong with the Tikka and they can feed ok from a mdt magazine. Just would not be my choice.
 
#14
I have a Tikka T3x 223 Varmint in a KRG Bravo chassis running MDT mags. Feeds flawlessly. Great trigger, smooth fast action, and an abundance of aftermarket upgrade parts later if you wish. As for converting it into a 6.5 later, you'd need a new bolt regardless of brand.
 
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#15
Thanks guys. A conversion for me, would involve swapping the whole barreled action. One of the appealing ideas of the T3's is the whole barreled action is pretty cheap, and the .22's, .223's and 6.5's are all the same foot print. (mag issues aside)
 
#19
Accurate Mag. A T3X Hunter in .223 would work as well, unless you're shooting heavy strings of fire. Personally, when this barrel is fried on my Varmint, I'll screw a PVA or Bughole pre-fit on it in a different contour.

The KRG X-Ray and Bravo chassis are pretty light.
 
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#23
I have a .223 varmint running CDI bottom metal in the factory stock. I sold the metal AISC Accurate mags and went with MDT mags as you can load longer with them. I am running the 75gr ELDM at 2.49" coal and they feed great. I had to take some material off of the feed lips to clear the bolt, but it was really easy to do. You could buy a T3x lite and drop it into a KRG Bravo and have a lightweight rifle that uses AICS pattern mags.

There are lots of stock options out there for Tikka actions and there are more coming. Grayboe is coming out with a Tikka version, McMillian, Manners, German Gun Stock,.... lots of options.

("Well my reason is you have a long action tikka t3x. And you are trying to shoot a super short 223. The magazine feeding issues come into play. It can and has been done by many people to get a t3 to feed from a aics mdt magazine. But personally if I’m going to spend $800 on a rifle then drop it into a $600 to $900 chassis I personally would like a Remington 700 foot print. Which would bring me to a bighorn origin. Now if you buy a tikka and Can get by with the Oem stock then it’s a much better value. ")

I have a CTR and the Varmint, the length of the bolt throw is controlled by the bolt stop. You do not have long action bolt throw on a .308 or .223 Tikka unless you put a long action bolt stop in it.
 

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#24
260284 said:
I sold the metal AISC Accurate mags and went with MDT mags as you can load longer with them. I am running the 75gr ELDM at 2.49" coal and they feed great.
Click to expand...

Just an FYI, the AM AICS mags can be mod'ed as well. A rat tail file and about 5 mins of time and boom, 75gr ELDM's seated long with no issues.
 
#27
I’ve been running a Remington 700 SPS AAC in .223 in a Magpul stock and have even getting less than half MOA groups with hand loads. I have a sure fire brake, fluted bolt with a knob and gen 1pst. I have almost finished my lad development and have a hunch the gun shoots much better. I’ll post a photo of the rifles and the best group after the next range trip. For a cheap gun it’s a shooter
 
#29
patriot07 said:
The T3/T3x lite, even in 223, does not hold up to long strings of shots. You need a Varmint or CTR if you want to do that.
Click to expand...

I kind of assumed that, but do you think it will do 10 shots even? Or is it a typical light hunter, and may only give 3-5? One of the amazing things about the Blaser system is how even the light weight barrels don't open up or shift.
 
#32
SLG said:
Copy, thanks very much.
Click to expand...

My experience with the t3 lite in 223 has been a little different than that (not disagreeing that your t3 started opening up quickly). Mine puts 3 rounds into about 0.3 and 5 rounds into 0.5 moa comfortably, and I can generally get 10 rounds in 2 or 3 minutes before the barrel heats up too much and accuracy degrades. My dad picked it up for under 500 on gunbroker and accuracy wise it hangs on just fine with my custom 6.5 bolt gun. You probably already know this, but the factory tikka magazines won’t accept the really long heavy bullets. IMO for 500 bucks, it’s a great little gun.
 
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#33
My only experience on this is with my CZ 527 in .223. Its basically the American model but they did a run with a fancier stock (hand rubbed Turkish walnut with rosewood grip caps). I love the gun and it loves 40 grain bullets. Magazines are metal and can scratch up the brass, but a little scotchbrite pad smoothed out the sharp edges on the feed lips. Single feeding is a little tough on brass but that micro mauser claw is so cute its hard to get mad with it. Trigger is solid when used traditionally. Not a fan of the single set function (goes scary light), but some people love it. Dual cocking cams and wonderful mauser extraction make for a smooth action. Tools bolt disassembly is nice too (decock the firing pin, remove the bolt handle and you're done).

The gun shoots very well for me. Only groups I have on hand are the better ones I've shot with it. Its definitely a sub MOA gun, in my experience its sub half MOA as long as you don't run it hot. With 40 grain varmint handloads it shoots very very well. It loves the Hornady 52grn BTHP too. Off the shelf 55 FMJ stuff shoots....well, like its 55 FMJ. Around 1-1.5 MOA depending on the brand. Don't expect to get long strings of fire out of it before it opens up. If I wait about a minute between shots and maybe five or so minutes between groups it shoots very well all day. That's the trade off for the weight. Depending on the use it may not matter to you. As a walking varminter, its hard to beat.

7 pounds 3 ounces as pictured (if the kitchen scale is to be trusted). No offense to everyone else, but there's a difference between lightweight for a tactical gun and lightweight. A Tikka CTR in a chassis is certainly light compared to a 15 pound gun, but its not lightweight. With a smaller scope and ditching the factory steel rings the CZ could easily be sitting around 6 lbs 12 oz. If you want to go even smaller and lighter, CZ says the carbine with irons is sub 6 lbs. If you ask me the carbine in 223 of 7.62x39 would be very hand and tons of fun.

YbtJxMs.jpg


sgbC0H3.jpg


j06vsRB.jpg


Basically my 527 is the best $700 I ever spent. Not for everybody, but fits the bill for me. Let me know if you have any questions.
 
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#36
Thanks for all the replies and info. I've basically decided on a T3 Lite, dropped into a KRG Bravo, and the barrel cut to 16" It will be stiffer than as issued, and maybe that will help with the shot strings staying tight, idk. It won't be thick enough to thread 5/8X24, which is what I need, but I can get it threaded 9/16, and use an adaptor. Sounds like Accurate mags are a fairly sure thing, with the MDT plastic mags a possible second. I have a good source for a T3, just need to order it up and get things going. It is much cheaper than the CTR, and since I won't be using the CTR stock, it seemed silly to pay extra. Also, if the barrel really doesn't do what i want, I'll have spent that much less on the gun and can get the barrel swapped to a Bartlein in short order. I put an email in to Sterk about his parts and am waiting to hear back. Should be a fun little gun when its ready.

For those of you with Bravo's, how do you like the ergos? I plan to get hands on one next week, and assuming its all good, order one.
 
#37
For a little walk about varminter the CZ is wonderful! If 5 shots are enough, and you want light weight, these little rifles are fantastic. Plus that set trigger is a bonus for shooting groups.

I sold a CZ527 17R with 18.5" super lightweight barrel to a friend, man that thing is a laser to 400Y. So is my replacement CZ527 in 5mmFBI, 32's at 3700 fps with 17.7 grains of powder.

Maybe at some point I'll do a 6mmFatRat in one.

223's are too boring to me right now but in a few weeks I'll be playing with my first 223AI in a single shot loading 80's and 90's past the neck shoulder junction.

The only thing I've had against Tikka is it's a long action.
 
Last edited:
#39
I too have never had a cratered primer in my RPR 223. I believe in most cases it was do to poor reloading methods. It’s light weight ish and has an adjustiable stock with readily available magazines. All that for about $850. Just a thought.
 
#40
Another Casual said:
My only experience on this is with my CZ 527 in .223. Its basically the American model but they did a run with a fancier stock (hand rubbed Turkish walnut with rosewood grip caps). I love the gun and it loves 40 grain bullets. Magazines are metal and can scratch up the brass, but a little scotchbrite pad smoothed out the sharp edges on the feed lips. Single feeding is a little tough on brass but that micro mauser claw is so cute its hard to get mad with it. Trigger is solid when used traditionally. Not a fan of the single set function (goes scary light), but some people love it. Dual cocking cams and wonderful mauser extraction make for a smooth action. Tools bolt disassembly is nice too (decock the firing pin, remove the bolt handle and you're done).

The gun shoots very well for me. Only groups I have on hand are the better ones I've shot with it. Its definitely a sub MOA gun, in my experience its sub half MOA as long as you don't run it hot. With 40 grain varmint handloads it shoots very very well. It loves the Hornady 52grn BTHP too. Off the shelf 55 FMJ stuff shoots....well, like its 55 FMJ. Around 1-1.5 MOA depending on the brand. Don't expect to get long strings of fire out of it before it opens up. If I wait about a minute between shots and maybe five or so minutes between groups it shoots very well all day. That's the trade off for the weight. Depending on the use it may not matter to you. As a walking varminter, its hard to beat.

7 pounds 3 ounces as pictured (if the kitchen scale is to be trusted). No offense to everyone else, but there's a difference between lightweight for a tactical gun and lightweight. A Tikka CTR in a chassis is certainly light compared to a 15 pound gun, but its not lightweight. With a smaller scope and ditching the factory steel rings the CZ could easily be sitting around 6 lbs 12 oz. If you want to go even smaller and lighter, CZ says the carbine with irons is sub 6 lbs. If you ask me the carbine in 223 of 7.62x39 would be very hand and tons of fun.

YbtJxMs.jpg


sgbC0H3.jpg


j06vsRB.jpg


Basically my 527 is the best $700 I ever spent. Not for everybody, but fits the bill for me. Let me know if you have any questions.
Click to expand...

Wow that's a beautiful piece of wood. I had a 527 American 223 for a number of years that I used as a walking varmint rifle, it was very accurate. I've been toying with the idea of getting another American or a Varmint in 204 ruger.
 
#41
I had a CZ 527 Carbine. Tough to beat the accuracy/value/weight of the CZ stuff, and they usually have pretty passable wood for post 1964. In this case, I'm looking to build a rifle that my kids can shoot, but that I can also take out and play with, hence the chassis requirement for the adj. LOP. The Bravo seems relatively light for a chassis, and still gives me all the adjustment and options I could want for modern stuff. I was looking at the XLR Envy originally, as those just call to me, but at about twice the price and a pound heavier, it didn't seem as good an option for the little ones to use. Is there another chassis I'm overlooking? I hate the MDT stuff, and love the AI stuff, but too heavy for this.
 
#43
SLG said:
I've done some searching over the past couple of weeks or so, but am not finding quite what i'm looking for.

I'm interested in a short, light, handy, .223 bolt gun setup. The mini fix will likely do once it becomes available, but as it is now, it is only .224V, and it is at least a pound heavier than my 308 setup, so not that appealing to me currently.

Used to basically be either a CZ, Kimber or a reworked 700 were your options. I have a Kimber (currently hanging out at my FiL's, for an extended time), I had a CZ, and the 700's never appealed to me for a variety of reasons.

Is Tikka the way to go these days? If so, can I drop it in a chassis for a standard T3? What mags will it work with, given the lack of AI .223 mags these days? MDT 223 mags? Spacers in a 308 AICS mag?

If the Tikka will work like this, then the ability to pull it out and drop a 6.5 into it has some appeal. Anyone done this?

Is there another way I'm missing, or what? What .223 bolt guns are you guys using? Pics would be very appreciated as well.

Thanks for reading the many questions!
Click to expand...
Mate,

I’ve got to add my voice to the chorus of support for the T3x Varmint or super Varmint in .223. I have one with a 1:8 twist and they are outstanding as an out of the box performer.
 
#44
delinquent pleb said:
Mate,

I’ve got to add my voice to the chorus of support for the T3x Varmint or super Varmint in .223. I have one with a 1:8 twist and they are outstanding as an out of the box performer.
Click to expand...
Don't know if you saw the "conclusion", but I bought a T3 lite stainless. Its a laser gun. I like it so much, I also have a T3 SS Varmint on the way. :)
 
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#45
SLG said:
Don't know if you saw the "conclusion", but I bought a T3 lite stainless. Its a laser gun. I like it so much, I also have a T3 SS Varmint on the way. :)
Click to expand...
Great move!

I brought a .260Rem in Tikka Stainless lite and it shot beautifully out of the box. I promptly rebarrled it to a Comp barrel (hardy Med Varmint, 1:8tw,26”) but If I do more hunting I will likely pick up a another stainless lite. You will not regret the Varmint either.
 
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