SCAR MK20S Limited Release
- Thread starter Blackjack988
- Start date
If that's the video you based your decision off of, I'd go back and watch it again. The only con against the gun itself was a reciprocating charging handle. Everything else was the stuff they put on it and the steel case ammo they fed it.
Oh i watched it. The guy said he and his seal team members that used the scar in real world situations all threw them out as soon as they could due to reliability. Why spend that kind of money on something that is proven unreliable. I decided to spend less money on a cz bren 2. I think both the bren and the scar are more a "novelty" gun since you can build or purchase a good AR15 or AR10ish for a lot less. I just chose to spend less on a novelty gun and I like cz and their products more. I'm not saying the scar isn't a worthy gun to purchase I just dont want to buy it for that price. Oh and the Bren 2 has a non reciprocating charging handle. Lol
I have the 5.56 version but the 308 is supposed to be available in 2019. That's the one problem with CZ , getting their products into the states. The good thing is their price but the availability is always an issue.
It's funny how the group think evolves in the gun world.
Years ago, "conventional gun wisdom" told us that the DI M4/M16's were a very unreliable and outdated design. Supposed incidents of malfunction during the Vietnam conflict were cited as proof. There were similar stories being passed around during the recent OIF and OEF conflicts, some of which generated news stories. Truth be told, most of the major reliability issues with were related to maintenance issues and/or sub-par components being manufactured (sometimes by 3rd party, non-OEM, companies); the design itself was perfectly functional and reliable. In all my service experiences, I never had any serious issues with that weapon. Neither did any of my acquaintances. And sure enough, DI AR's are still selling strong within the civilian community and the LE/military communities.
So a few SEAL's don't like the SCAR....big whoop. They're entitled to their opinion, just like everyone else. There are plenty of others (military, LE, and civilians) who have put thousands of rounds through those rifles and have mostly good things to say about them. Other than a few stock components that were having premature malfunctions, that weapon has a pretty solid track record in terms of reliability.
It's petty and stupid to make an arbitrary assessment of a weapon based on an internet video and a few forum posts.
Years ago, "conventional gun wisdom" told us that the DI M4/M16's were a very unreliable and outdated design. Supposed incidents of malfunction during the Vietnam conflict were cited as proof. There were similar stories being passed around during the recent OIF and OEF conflicts, some of which generated news stories. Truth be told, most of the major reliability issues with were related to maintenance issues and/or sub-par components being manufactured (sometimes by 3rd party, non-OEM, companies); the design itself was perfectly functional and reliable. In all my service experiences, I never had any serious issues with that weapon. Neither did any of my acquaintances. And sure enough, DI AR's are still selling strong within the civilian community and the LE/military communities.
So a few SEAL's don't like the SCAR....big whoop. They're entitled to their opinion, just like everyone else. There are plenty of others (military, LE, and civilians) who have put thousands of rounds through those rifles and have mostly good things to say about them. Other than a few stock components that were having premature malfunctions, that weapon has a pretty solid track record in terms of reliability.
It's petty and stupid to make an arbitrary assessment of a weapon based on an internet video and a few forum posts.
I may have owned every assault rifle that was made available in the US. The bren. The daewoo. The scar. 251 different ar15/10 rifles, piston and DI. The robinson XCR...every bullpup available...Every HK gun. The only thing i may not have covered is every AK variant, but then again maybe not.
The rifle i would take to a war with China when they got to the mountains of Colorado would be a 16” radian model 1 with a proof cf barrel and NF optics. The rifle i choose to keep with me on my person and close is a Sig Rattler SBR.
That said, i wouldn’t ask someone if they were fucking stupid if they handed me almost any of the other ones out of the trunk of their car. Very few commercially available semi auto rifles in the states are actually junk, and most of those aggregate to the cheap AKs and ARs.
I did get in a bit of a scuffle with armed individuals after being issued an early bushmaster with an aimpoint on it. Made me a little nervous...
The rifle i would take to a war with China when they got to the mountains of Colorado would be a 16” radian model 1 with a proof cf barrel and NF optics. The rifle i choose to keep with me on my person and close is a Sig Rattler SBR.
That said, i wouldn’t ask someone if they were fucking stupid if they handed me almost any of the other ones out of the trunk of their car. Very few commercially available semi auto rifles in the states are actually junk, and most of those aggregate to the cheap AKs and ARs.
I did get in a bit of a scuffle with armed individuals after being issued an early bushmaster with an aimpoint on it. Made me a little nervous...
I respect the opinion of the Men (and Women), that actually have used the weapon systems in real world applications. That video does give me pause about the SCAR.
That being said, I have used the 17s for a while now, in very dirty, wet, and dry sandy conditions, and have not experienced the malfunctions reported. My sample of "1" may be a misrepresentation though... as mine is also sub MOA accurate.
R,
jmw
That being said, I have used the 17s for a while now, in very dirty, wet, and dry sandy conditions, and have not experienced the malfunctions reported. My sample of "1" may be a misrepresentation though... as mine is also sub MOA accurate.
R,
jmw
There is a .mil poster floating around showing the optics/lasers/etc that had to be hardened to hold up the scar17
The Magpul Masada was released publicly in 2007 at SHOT show.
The first Bren 805 was demonstrated to the Czech Army procurement arm in 2006. It predates both the ACR (Masada) and the SCAR.
That said, almost all of them could be considered “HK G36 - Generation 2 and not made by HK”
The G36 was a fantastic design made stupidly by complete assholes...
The first Bren 805 was demonstrated to the Czech Army procurement arm in 2006. It predates both the ACR (Masada) and the SCAR.
That said, almost all of them could be considered “HK G36 - Generation 2 and not made by HK”
The G36 was a fantastic design made stupidly by complete assholes...
Clearly doesn’t care to sell it then. I have four scars, great rifles. But a mk20s is simply trying to make an outdoor cat an inside cat.
Sounds great! Please let us know how you like it and how it shoots when you get it.
R,
jmw
I'm dismissive of the gun gossip and armchair quarterbacking that runs rampant on these firearm discussions.
As I noted earlier, we see the "experts" to chime in with their "experiences," though oddly enough they inevitably resort to name-dropping [insert SOCOM unit here] to reinforce their "observations," anecdotally of course.
The Mk 20 has literally just hit the FFL network. Other than a few industry insiders and certain military units, I can't think of anyone who has had extensive hands on with this weapon. If you want to criticize the rifle from behind your keyboard, go ahead....just don't get defensive when people question your credibility.
Online videos and internet forum discussions should be considered when deciding on a firearm purchase, albeit with a grain of salt; they should not be the basis for making such a decision.
May not shoot it
Ahh... what a shame. But, seems like a good collectors piece too.
R,
Jmw
Dang FN doesnt play around they are already here I already have it. Man this sucker is a good bit stouter then the 17s. Seems very solid form my finger banging, but the actual rifle despite the heavier profile barrel is quite light weight and feels really good. The Cheek rest is my favorite part for my fat face. Case is really nice with some FN sticker logos on it. The G. trigger in this feel lighters then my SCAR 17 with SST installed, but im sure its just the newness factor setting in.
It has FN South Carolina engraved on it? Prob why it showed so fast
It has FN South Carolina engraved on it? Prob why it showed so fast
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im waiting for the LE package to end and buying one, cash already on hand. it will sit next to my (2) SCAR 16s & (1) 17. My set ups are: 16=CQB (t2), 16=reg barrel (elcan1-4x), 17=CQB (elcan 1-4x) & finally soon a 20S=LR (optic??) *unfort, I have drank the Kool-Aid & love it!
There are plenty of SCAR variant haters out there, and they are entitled to their own opinions based off their firsthand experiences. Just like any brand of weapon, you will find issues from the manufacturer out of every production batch. The SCAR is no different in that respect. I have used the MK17 on 3 centcom deployments now, through good and extremely shitty weather. One experience that sticks with me was when I used it in a severe dust storm for multiple days engaging the enemy, without one single failure, and no cleaning.
All that said, I have also had my fair share of problems I had to work through, because that can happen when you are pushing thousands of rounds through the gun in a few weeks. The point with that is that I identified the source of the problem (FTF, FTE, etc.) and worked through the problem every time, and more importantly I did it while in training. I will absolutely never take an unproven weapon in to combat with me.
The reality is that most guys buying the civilian SCAR variants will never need to use the weapon in a warfighting capacity, and are moreless going to use it at the range plinking, or hunting.
The MK17 has been a fruitful system for me and many other coworkers because I/we had the patience to work the problems. To be honest, most of the problems I have seen with SCAR variants were operator error, but the guys are too prideful to admit it was their fault so they blamed it on the system. 99% of the time I saw failures or heard a guy complaining about them, I would ask them if they checked or changed their suppressor setting for any reason. They would quickly recognize it was operator error vice a true malfunction, fix the setting, and charlie mike. Not owning operator error and blaming the weapon for a failure is no different than blaiming a suppressor for getting shot off when you forgot to ensure it was properly locked down.
Things I don't like about the MK17 and MK20s:
MK17- Trigger sucks, reciprocating charging handle, and ambi mag release.
MK20- Recip charging handle, ambi mag release and weight.
All in all, I believe SCAR variant platforms are super accurate rifles for a gas piston system. You can hit consistently at 7-800yds with the 13" bbl. I've also put the MK20 through its paces in training and overseas. Great gun as well. With an optic and suppressor the recoil is negligible, so no fears of an optic breaking due to shock from the cyclic impacts. I've taken it out to 1500yds with a 50/50 hit ratio and it'll do 1 MOA all day long. I mention the 50% hit ratio at 1500 because that is well out of the 20s max effective range. One of my coworkers just used it recently to dump a few shitheads. Needless to say, he's a big fan as well.
Anyhow, just wanted to chime in with my .02.
All that said, I have also had my fair share of problems I had to work through, because that can happen when you are pushing thousands of rounds through the gun in a few weeks. The point with that is that I identified the source of the problem (FTF, FTE, etc.) and worked through the problem every time, and more importantly I did it while in training. I will absolutely never take an unproven weapon in to combat with me.
The reality is that most guys buying the civilian SCAR variants will never need to use the weapon in a warfighting capacity, and are moreless going to use it at the range plinking, or hunting.
The MK17 has been a fruitful system for me and many other coworkers because I/we had the patience to work the problems. To be honest, most of the problems I have seen with SCAR variants were operator error, but the guys are too prideful to admit it was their fault so they blamed it on the system. 99% of the time I saw failures or heard a guy complaining about them, I would ask them if they checked or changed their suppressor setting for any reason. They would quickly recognize it was operator error vice a true malfunction, fix the setting, and charlie mike. Not owning operator error and blaming the weapon for a failure is no different than blaiming a suppressor for getting shot off when you forgot to ensure it was properly locked down.
Things I don't like about the MK17 and MK20s:
MK17- Trigger sucks, reciprocating charging handle, and ambi mag release.
MK20- Recip charging handle, ambi mag release and weight.
All in all, I believe SCAR variant platforms are super accurate rifles for a gas piston system. You can hit consistently at 7-800yds with the 13" bbl. I've also put the MK20 through its paces in training and overseas. Great gun as well. With an optic and suppressor the recoil is negligible, so no fears of an optic breaking due to shock from the cyclic impacts. I've taken it out to 1500yds with a 50/50 hit ratio and it'll do 1 MOA all day long. I mention the 50% hit ratio at 1500 because that is well out of the 20s max effective range. One of my coworkers just used it recently to dump a few shitheads. Needless to say, he's a big fan as well.
Anyhow, just wanted to chime in with my .02.
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Kind of a funny story but one of the biggest bucks I have seen taken 2 years ago in my area was with a SCAR17s and an elcan 4x. The weight and light recoil makes it a fun hunting rifle, but you do get some funny looks from the other hunters.
I have seen some of these rifle shoot very tight little groups at 100 with Academy Federal gold ammo.
That's good stuff right there. A good friend also has one and bagged a nice buck with it a few years back. They are nice and light with a simple optic mounted, but tend to get heavy quick when lights, lasers and bipods get added for work purposes.
Federal Gold match?
Some Mk20 teaser porn while the rest of you peasants wait...
Courtesy of Kyle at Parker Mountain Machine.
Courtesy of Kyle at Parker Mountain Machine.
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A buddy and I both received these yesterday. Put the vudu on mine.
Should get to the range this week...
Should get to the range this week...
This is how i felt after watching it as well. I wonder how the gas was on that rifle also. The switch could have been flipped. I always considered the SCAR one of the rifles that ate just about everything it was fed . I dont have a problem with the charging handle after moving it to the other side. Im sure it gets heavy with other things on it, but so do all rifles.
What really struck me is how they just prefer 5.56 over 7.62. I always have seen and heard the opposite. Suppose it could be mission specific. A mk18 is tough to beat on weight.
FWIW, Std edition models are on the way. Mine is on a Brown Truck inbound. It was $3995. Pics after next Monday.................
I emailed them this week from my .mil address, and they said they weren't officially released and had no military pricing for the 20s.
Ahh... okay. Please keep us informed. I'll do the same if I find out anything.
R,
jmw
As someone who has a decent amount of trigger time behind these I can say that they shoot well. I personally will be waiting for the ones that aren’t in a kit to come out. FN has been making these things for the military for at least 5 years now and I am really surprised that it took them this long to come out on the civilian market. The mil ones had a different case setup but still had the super scar trigger and came with the issued atlas bipod. The military kits also had a bunch of additional accessories with them. They were issued with night force 3-15 scopes with the h59 reticle but I have seen some with a leupold 3-15 as well but those were not as common. The only reason I kinda want one is that it is what I carried but I will wait for the individual rifles to come out. They are cool to look at and shoot but if you are just wanting the best shooter, I think that you can do a little better for the price somewhere else. I would be happy to answer any other questions you guys have about the MK20 since the rifle in these kits appears identical to the mil one with the exception of the muzzle device since the mil rifles came with a QD surefire suppressor.
Thanks for posting!
Did your issued ones have the badger Mount for the Harris?
2 Allen heads holding it in our quick release lever?
Did your issued ones have the badger Mount for the Harris?
2 Allen heads holding it in our quick release lever?
What kind of accuracy were you getting? With what ammo? Reliability? Any issues overall?
R,
jmw
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