is there something to hold your rifle so you can really dial it in?

[thegee]

I don't know the terminology, i'm new..but what I wanted to ask was is there some sort of device that you can lock your rifle in so it doesn't move...so that when you're sighting in at various distances you take your own human element out of the equation and just need to adjust for distance/wind/etc?

We were sighting our guns in at 100 yards and my friend had a lead sled..i have no gun experience so i thought it was really cool.
But when we set it up and shot, the recoil on his gun was really strong..as it got darker, i could see the fire/flames/whatever shoot out the front of his gun and could see the rifle kick up into the air after each shot.
Also the lead sled would slide around every time i bumped into it...(not bumped into it..but when i stuck my cheek down, or whatever)

Is there something that totally locks the gun in so you can just adjust your turret as needed and pull the trigger so there is absolutely no movement?
or is that something that would be bad for the gun?

as noted above, i'm not a gun guy...brand new to hunting...but am very very interested in learning all i can so that one day I'll be able to shoot mid/long range with confidence.

Thanks.
_Michael

 

[JimLee]

When I was young and new to hard recoiling rifles I made a bench that I could lock down my .300 WSM on. 3 destroyed scopes later I realized all that energy has to go somewhere. The trick is to make the recoil manageable, not completely eliminate it IMO.

 

[thegee]

Thanks JimLee.
Appreciate it...I don't really have the experience, and not a lot of street smarts (just being honest. LOL) but I thought that there could be problems, hence my "or is that bad for the gun" comment.

Thanks again!!!
-Michael

 

[JimLee]

No problem. I'm no expert by any means but after my failed attempt I just went into the mindset of trying to mitigate recoil as best I could. There are actually some articles and videos about it floating around. I also have a lead sled, one of the ones that will hold 50 pounds of lead shot up front. That extra weight helps quite a bit but I still fight with it to get it re-positioned after every shot when i'm shooting something with a good amount of recoil. I've seen other shooting rests that have shock absorbers built into them and ones with straps and a metal hook that that attaches to the front of a shooting bench, but I think all of them move somewhat after shooting and you have to have some patience and reset. Since i've learned some recoil mitigation techniques I don't really ever use the lead sled anymore. I think like most things long range shooting, consistency is the key. If your fundamentals are good and repeatable and you are handling your recoil the same every shot, you will get good groups (if the rifle and ammo are capable of producing them). Maybe someone with some experience with other types of rests will chime in with some good info as well.

 

[Eustice]

The idea behind the lead sled is the rifle doesn’t move when you put your cheek on it or pull the trigger. Ideally you should be aligning the scope on the target in the sled then simply touching the trigger only enough tonfire the round. The rifle will jump and the sled may move but it shouldn’t matter. Move the sled and rifle back in to position and put the crosshairs back on the target.

If you bolt the rifle down to where it doesn’t move you have the chance to ruin your scope. As said before, all that energy has to go somewhere.

I would recommend shooting the rifle off sandbags and actually being behind it. I feel like if it’s going to be you shooting the rifle in competition or hunting then the human element needs to be involved. The lead sled isn’t going into the stand with you. Make yourself a better shooter. Rather than eliminate the human element, make the human element better and more reliable.

 

[thegee]

Eustice!
Awesome advice, thank you so much!

 

[Eustice]

Also, don’t chase single shots. Do 3-5 shit groups and adjust off the center of the group. Attempt to do the same thing every time.
Breathe, Relax, Aim, Sight (alignment/picture), Squeeze, Reaquire

As you practice you will notice your shot groups you are using to adjust will tighten up. Walk them closer to the center of the target. Grid style targets with 1” squares help quite a bit for this. I’ve been drawing grids on cardboard for targets making the boxes 0.25 Mils. Or just use a ruler to measure how far up/down and left/right you are then adjust from there.

Taking your time and not chasing single shots will probably expend less ammo in the long run.

 

[GrandpaDeadLegs]

What kinda guns you got? Different techniques the guys can offer for different calibers, stocks, etc...

 

[FatBoy]

Thegee,

Eustice gave you some great advice. To follow up on that I'm going to give you an example of why a sled may not be such a great idea.

I compete NRA Prone, which is shooting from a sling and coat, prone. Like almost everyone else, I load test from a bench or off a bipod. The position one takes when they are behind a rifle as opposed to slung up with a rifle is quite a bit more rearward. Once I have a load and a good zero on the bench I sling uo to set my final zero. Almost always my zero out of a sling and coat is 2-3 MOA left and 1-2 MOA down. I believe this is because the rifle is being acted on by forces it wasnt subjected to on the bench, and the recoil of the rifle is slowed down significantly while in the coat.

Shooting off bags, etc is a good idea to rough you in, but personally I like to set a final zero shooting in a manner I am most likely to use the rifle. Is its Ninja type shit, I just zero prone and make sure I can see through the scope in F'd up barricade or rooftop positions. It's close enough for me, but I don't compete that style so take it with a grain of salt.

I know this deviated a little from your initial question, and the answer to that is a "return to battery" rig, but those are all but useless for setting a final zero as they really do take the human factor out.

 

[steve123]

Sell the LS and buy a real benchrest set up. Research what BR shooters use, there are entry level rest's, etc. The rifle needs to be able to track straight back to get full accuracy potential but there's more too it than that.

 

[308pirate]

Thegee,

Eustice gave you some great advice. To follow up on that I'm going to give you an example of why a sled may not be such a great idea.

I compete NRA Prone, which is shooting from a sling and coat, prone. Like almost everyone else, I load test from a bench or off a bipod. The position one takes when they are behind a rifle as opposed to slung up with a rifle is quite a bit more rearward. Once I have a load and a good zero on the bench I sling uo to set my final zero. Almost always my zero out of a sling and coat is 2-3 MOA left and 1-2 MOA down. I believe this is because the rifle is being acted on by forces it wasnt subjected to on the bench, and the recoil of the rifle is slowed down significantly while in the coat.

Shooting off bags, etc is a good idea to rough you in, but personally I like to set a final zero shooting in a manner I am most likely to use the rifle. Is its Ninja type shit, I just zero prone and make sure I can see through the scope in F'd up barricade or rooftop positions. It's close enough for me, but I don't compete that style so take it with a grain of salt.

I know this deviated a little from your initial question, and the answer to that is a "return to battery" rig, but those are all but useless for setting a final zero as they really do take the human factor out.

This.

I come from a sling shooting background and saw the same thing Chris describes above. For that reason long ago I decided to learn to shoot well enough that I could do all my zeroing using the same support method and same position that the rifle will be used for real.

 

[thegee]

...I know this deviated a little from your initial question...

Not at all... I'm really appreciating all the info shared in these forums.
Thanks a lot!!

 

[2ndamendfan]

I could be wrong but if i remember correctly there have been quite a few broken stocks on lead sleds also. People using a ton of weight to keep it from moving.

To the OP, i understand were you are coming from. No matter if I shoot a .5 group or a 2.5 group I always wonder how much of it was ME. On the .5 group, should it have been a 2.5 and I just got lucky. That is why i hate shooting groups. I will say, the more you do it, the more you will see what you, the rifle, ammo is capable of.
Keep everything the same as much as possible. I enjoy the act of shooting, and shoot alot of different guns. But when I shoot for accuracy I only shoot one. I have 3 others I want to try, but I am still figuring myself out. Using the same gun, same ammo and averaging I can see that the gun should be a 1.0 -.75 MOA gun. When it is worse than that I can normally find fault with myself. Takes a lot of rounds down range to start to focus on little stuff you are doing. My $0.02

 

[LucasJ1990]

I go back and fourth with this. It is hard to shoot a tight group sometimes when its just off the bipod and bag, but that is how I have been doing it for awhile now. I used a rifle rest a couple of times as well, but I would never try to eliminate recoil altogether due to the scope issues that can come about.

 

[MarinePMI]

Lead sleds and such (IMO) are designed to test rifle accuracy/load development, not to zero the rifle. The sled allows the shooter to shoot many more rounds than they normal could tolerate, on heavy recoiling rounds. It was not intended to be used to zero a rifle, because HOW the rifle recoils will change between the sled and a human.

Like mentioned previously by a few, even in positional shooting, you will often see shooters adjust their sights between offhand and prone positions. This is (largely) due to the position altering HOW the rifle recoils (off hand being more dynamic in movement, than say the prone).

The heavier recoiling the cartridge/rifle, the more significant the change will be.

 

[LucasJ1990]

Lead sleds and such (IMO) are designed to test rifle accuracy/load development, not to zero the rifle. The sled allows the shooter to shoot many more rounds than they normal could tolerate, on heavy recoiling rounds. It was not intended to be used to zero a rifle, because HOW the rifle recoils will change between the sled and a human.

Like mentioned previously by a few, even in positional shooting, you will often see shooters adjust their sights between offhand and prone positions. This is (largely) due to the position altering HOW the rifle recoils (off hand being more dynamic in movement, than say the prone).

The heavier recoiling the cartridge/rifle, the more significant the change will be.

this makes me feel a little more comfortable using a lead sled to shoot for grouping lol. Sometimes I wonder how these guys shoot such tight groups off a bipod (I can do it, but not ALL the time).

 

[Lowlight]

You are zeroing the rifle to YOU,

Especially with a new shooter with a lot of bad habits, that is gonna be part of your zero in order to hit where you are aiming. This is not benchrest shooting, this is practical shooting, you cannot have it both ways.

Let's face it, you have no clue how to shoot, you go through the motions and are repeating what you might have seen, but essentially you have no skills. So if you zero the rifle in a sled it will be zeroed sans the shooter, but once you insert the shooter the human factor will move to the front and center and it will not be zeroed anymore unless you shoot it in the sled again.

Learn the Fundamentals of Marksmanship, learn about your influences on the rifle and how that will affect your POA vs POI.

The human factor is one of the biggest variables, removing it in the way suggested is not marksmanship,

This is cause and effect, if you do this then that will happen.

 

[Kasey]

I don't know the terminology, i'm new..but what I wanted to ask was is there some sort of device that you can lock your rifle in so it doesn't move...so that when you're sighting in at various distances you take your own human element out of the equation and just need to adjust for distance/wind/etc?

We were sighting our guns in at 100 yards and my friend had a lead sled..i have no gun experience so i thought it was really cool.
But when we set it up and shot, the recoil on his gun was really strong..as it got darker, i could see the fire/flames/whatever shoot out the front of his gun and could see the rifle kick up into the air after each shot.
Also the lead sled would slide around every time i bumped into it...(not bumped into it..but when i stuck my cheek down, or whatever)

Is there something that totally locks the gun in so you can just adjust your turret as needed and pull the trigger so there is absolutely no movement?
or is that something that would be bad for the gun?

as noted above, i'm not a gun guy...brand new to hunting...but am very very interested in learning all i can so that one day I'll be able to shoot mid/long range with confidence.

Thanks.
_Michael

So lots of great advice above, but in part you state "...i'm not a gun guy...brand new to hunting..but am very very interested in learning all i can so that one day I'll be able to shoot mid/long range with confidence." Please learn to shoot, with a high degree of confidence before shooting at a game animal. A TON can be learned dry firing (mimicking shooting the firearm without ammunition in it ) when not at the range - BE SURE TO FOLLOW ALL SAFE FIREARMS HANDLING RULES AND ESPECIALLY THAT THE FIREARM DOES NOT HAVE ANY AMMUNITION IN IT. A sunny day at the range, when you chose the time and place to shoot, you're calm and conditions are perfect, is rarely duplicated while hunting big game! We are obligated to give wild game animals a swift and humane kill.

 

[Zack_va248]

So lots of great advice above, but in part you state "...i'm not a gun guy...brand new to hunting..but am very very interested in learning all i can so that one day I'll be able to shoot mid/long range with confidence." Please learn to shoot, with a high degree of confidence before shooting at a game animal. A TON can be learned dry firing (mimicking shooting the firearm without ammunition in it ) when not at the range - BE SURE TO FOLLOW ALL SAFE FIREARMS HANDLING RULES AND ESPECIALLY THAT THE FIREARM DOES NOT HAVE ANY AMMUNITION IN IT. A sunny day at the range, when you chose the time and place to shoot, you're calm and conditions are perfect, is rarely duplicated while hunting big game! We are obligated to give wild game animals a swift and humane kill.

this.

 

[mdmp5]

The most sturdy device I know of is a rail gun mount. You bolt in a barreled action and the recoil moves straight back, and then you push it forward again to reset. In theory it should eliminate every variable until the trigger is pulled. In practice, it can still throw flyers

 

[texasleftychef]

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/rifle-sled-rest.6877761/

 

[Seymour Fish]

I don't know the terminology, i'm new..but what I wanted to ask was is there some sort of device that you can lock your rifle in so it doesn't move...so that when you're sighting in at various distances you take your own human element out of the equation and just need to adjust for distance/wind/etc?

We were sighting our guns in at 100 yards and my friend had a lead sled..i have no gun experience so i thought it was really cool.
But when we set it up and shot, the recoil on his gun was really strong..as it got darker, i could see the fire/flames/whatever shoot out the front of his gun and could see the rifle kick up into the air after each shot.
Also the lead sled would slide around every time i bumped into it...(not bumped into it..but when i stuck my cheek down, or whatever)

Is there something that totally locks the gun in so you can just adjust your turret as needed and pull the trigger so there is absolutely no movement?
or is that something that would be bad for the gun?

as noted above, i'm not a gun guy...brand new to hunting...but am very very interested in learning all i can so that one day I'll be able to shoot mid/long range with confidence.

Thanks.
_Michael

Michael, just say no to any lead sled type device. You can learn a lot about how to hold a rifle by

I don't know the terminology, i'm new..but what I wanted to ask was is there some sort of device that you can lock your rifle in so it doesn't move...so that when you're sighting in at various distances you take your own human element out of the equation and just need to adjust for distance/wind/etc?

We were sighting our guns in at 100 yards and my friend had a lead sled..i have no gun experience so i thought it was really cool.
But when we set it up and shot, the recoil on his gun was really strong..as it got darker, i could see the fire/flames/whatever shoot out the front of his gun and could see the rifle kick up into the air after each shot.
Also the lead sled would slide around every time i bumped into it...(not bumped into it..but when i stuck my cheek down, or whatever)

Is there something that totally locks the gun in so you can just adjust your turret as needed and pull the trigger so there is absolutely no movement?
or is that something that would be bad for the gun?

as noted above, i'm not a gun guy...brand new to hunting...but am very very interested in learning all i can so that one day I'll be able to shoot mid/long range with confidence.

Thanks.
_Michael

Michael, lots of good advice given. I’ll add : get a spring powered air rifle and practice basic marksmanship. These will quickly reveal an improper or inconsistent hold, poor trigger squeeze etc. at home, in your garage, and cheaply. What you learn here will transfer to rimfire and centerfire. To zero a centerfire for hunting, use sandbags off a bench and grip/hold the gun exactly as you will hunting, with a hand gripping the forend, and that hand resting on top of the front bag. Seymour

 

[mdmp5]

 

[Bozo]

>"...I'm not a gun guy...brand new to hunting..but am very very interested
in learning all I can so that one day I'll be able to shoot mid/long range with confidence."

IMHO: Go with something cheap to shoot... and low recoil.

Start with a .22 Learn to shoot it accurately at 50 yards, then move to 100 yards.
Then go with a .223 Learn to shoot it accurately at 100 yards, then 200, and maybe 300-600 yards.
From there on... 6.5 Creedmore, 308 Win. Go from 100, 200, 600... then up to to 1000 yards.
At that point... you can probably pick most any larger 'magnum' caliber... (if you want).

Point is. Don't start with a .300 or something magnum .
It will eat your wallet and wear out your shoulder.