Will body cams and cell video get cops killed??? This one boils my blood

hermosabeach

hermosabeach

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Feb 13, 2012
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#1
Stay frosty

If the police won’t kill him, will they kill him when he attacks a firefighter with his knife??




-- edited to add--
https://georgia.arrests.org/Arrests/Aaron_Hong_15608708/ (not sure if same person or just same name?)
  • #1 Poss Pistol or Revolver x Person under 18yoa
    #2 Possession Of Firearm Or Knife During Commission Of A Felony
    #3 VGCSA Sale, Dist, Poss Dangerous Drugs
    #4 VGCSA Purch, Poss, Manufacture, Dist or Sale of Marijuana




  • --
  • https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/authorities-identify-man-shot-killed-georgia-police-64087348

  • The Georgia Bureau of Investigation said Tuesday in a news release that 23-year-old Aaron Hong was killed by Athens-Clarke County police Monday.
    The GBI says two officers responded to reports of a man causing a disturbance with a butcher knife at an apartment complex






 
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#11
The police are lucky they didn't allow anyone else to be hurt by that suicidal subject due to their inaction. The suspect clearly was ready and willing to do whatever it took to get the police to shoot him.

Body cameras cause some police who lack confidence in their knowledge, skills, and abilities to become squishy because they don't know how or what their policy, case law, and best practices are. These cops are clearly in that group.

As responsibly armed citizens, police, and military: if you are not mentally prepared to use your tools to defend yourself and others against great bodily injury or lethal force, stop carrying or otherwise get out of the profession.
 
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#16
I'll wade a little deeper here.

As a rule, I try not to secind guess what officer's did or didnt do right or wrong in these types of videos. Instead, I like to ask what would I try to do differently should circumstances ever be similar for me.

In this case, using the car to create a barrier. Taser with lethal back-up. Once the two officer's split apart, that should have divided his attention for one to engage.

I don't necessarily disagree with moving to maintain space but at some point, the bad guy makes that decision. He's ignoring commands to drop the knife, then actively starts walking toward the officers. End of the day, he's bought and paid for.

A very good friend on another department faced something like this about a year and a half ago. Guy with a knife charged him and a second officer. Suicide by cop. He said the guy had no malice but was in pain and docs snd meds could do nothing more for him. Ive talked to him at length. The taser was deployed without effect. Time stood still, foot steps crunching almost deafeningly loud. Shots didn't register.

Its the world we live in and we must look at options available until options are no longer available. Then its time to go to guns and live with the consequences.
 
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#17
Seems there’s a need for less leathal options that pack a bit more punch and confidence for criminals armed with knifes, clubs, chains what have you. Something guaranteed to put the receiver in the hospital, but not quite dead.

Watched a video today where the perp ran right through a few shotgun bags. The taser also seems real hit and miss if it hits, then sticks, and then if the target responds.
 
#18
MTN said:
Seems there’s a need for less leathal options that pack a bit more punch and confidence for criminals armed with knifes, clubs, chains what have you. Something guaranteed to put the receiver in the hospital, but not quite dead.
Click to expand...

Something like this would be my first choice, especially if there was a bit of distance.
Just get out of the vehicle with this already in hand:

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#19
The tools exist the problem is, in limited numbers. Not every LEO and every department has them. Even when they do, not always available. Only so much shit you can carry.

This is like the Dinkheller video, these guys weren't mentally prepared to punch somebody's ticket. They were so adverse to pulling the trigger it almost got one of them killed. It did get Dinkheller killed.

Ain't always 'helping people', paperwork, foot chases and reports. Sometimes you're the one who's there when some loon needs to be put down before somebody gets hurt. They got lucky. Cops get lucky a lot, the smart ones realize it's luck, the dumb ones think it's raw ability instead of chance.
 
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#20
I think Officer Harrison is very lucky and needs a little training on when to deploy lethal force. The video says he fired five shots at the suspect and hit him, but then the suspect charges him with the knife and tries to grab his gun...WHICH IS NOW HOLSTERED!?
 
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#21
Sean the Nailer said:
I lasted just over a minute. Exactly how many yards of retreat is required protocol?
Exactly how far away from your squad car is 'good'.?
Exactly how many demand repeats are required before 'that one' matters?
Click to expand...

There are no direct answers to any of your questions. Too many “what if’s” and “it depends”.
 
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#23
ArmyJerry said:
Why did the cops put themselves in that position?
Click to expand...
They escalated it/him right from the roll up, "we be the cops an have guns". Then as soon as they started backing up that was in an of it's self empowered him.
Once they had backed up so far, he knew he was in control an then showed them he was. Retreat is a signal to many ED dirtbags an that only gives them a reason to proceed. When you roll up on a weapon call, you better have your wits about you.
 
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#24
Slash0311 said:
I'll wade a little deeper here.

As a rule, I try not to secind guess what officer's did or didnt do right or wrong in these types of videos. Instead, I like to ask what would I try to do differently should circumstances ever be similar for me.

In this case, using the car to create a barrier. Taser with lethal back-up. Once the two officer's split apart, that should have divided his attention for one to engage.

I don't necessarily disagree with moving to maintain space but at some point, the bad guy makes that decision. He's ignoring commands to drop the knife, then actively starts walking toward the officers. End of the day, he's bought and paid for.

A very good friend on another department faced something like this about a year and a half ago. Guy with a knife charged him and a second officer. Suicide by cop. He said the guy had no malice but was in pain and docs snd meds could do nothing more for him. Ive talked to him at length. The taser was deployed without effect. Time stood still, foot steps crunching almost deafeningly loud. Shots didn't register.

Its the world we live in and we must look at options available until options are no longer available. Then its time to go to guns and live with the consequences.
Click to expand...

I agree with using the car as a barrier.

My question is, as a LEO, dont you think the officer made a mistake in getting so far from his car. There were likely other weapons in it, not to mention the car itself.

Easy to armchair QB but I dont think I would have allowed that to happen.
 
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#25
No, I don't think body cams and cell phone videos will get cops killed. I think trying to blame inaction or hesitation on video is bull shit.

I think the police that have been caught doing illegal things on body cams, are proof of two things. They don't think about them much, and every single officer should be wearing one, that can't be turned off. It is a witness there for the safety of everyone.

Its not like a cop can't murder you and get away with it, just because its on video. Ask Daniel Shaver's family.
 
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#26
Again, I try very hard not to second guess the actions of others.

I would say getting that far away from your vehicle is unusual. But playing a little devil's advocate, staying in the street to maintain distance may have been the better option rather than risk tripping and falling in landscaping or on curbs. (Thats why I find its never easy to second guess)

When I look at options available to me, I'm very limited. Typically Im on the streets alone. County deputies back me up but can be several minutes away. Taser or baton are the only non-lethal options I have. Guy with a knife means deadly force. Looking at it from that view, I'd have no choice but to shoot. Alone means non-lethal isn't going to be considered when going up against lethal force. I can agree with giving space and multiple commands. As in the case with my buddy I mentioned above, some guys just won't give you any other option. That's on them.

Unfortunately in this day and age of body cams, the public would loose their shit if they only give someone one command to drop a weapon (even though they'd be absolutely justified at that point) its a real catch-22. Look like a gun happy jack boot thug out to off someone or look like a pussy giving too many commands to drop the knife. That's why I hate body cameras. Id say a good two or three commands and pull the trigger just because of appearance (what burns my ass even suggesting that. Body cameras will get officers killed for that reason)

One of my first thoughts though was about a traffic risk to the officers when they walked into the intersection. Focus would have been on the guy with the knife and not watching for cars.
 
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#27
MTN said:
Seems there’s a need for less leathal options that pack a bit more punch and confidence for criminals armed with knifes, clubs, chains what have you.
Click to expand...

Knives and impact weapons are deadly weapons. Courts all over the country at every level of the judiciary have ruled so with boring regularity. State statutes define them as such almost universally.

Why are you advocating a less-lethal response to an assault with a deadly weapon?

Assume a threatening posture while armed with a knife, chain, pipe, bat, crowbar, axe handle, etc, and like slash said, you're bought and paid for. You will get shot.
 
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#30
For the record for any that may not know...

The use of force continuum allows officers to generally go one level up from what's being used against them. But as with this video knives are deadly wespons so there's no up from that.

The only way I would even consider ANY non-lethal option would be from behind cover or barrier AND a second officer there with lethal back up.

Against a determined opponent, the time to figure out if a taser was unsuccessful and the transition to deadly force can be enough to get you killed.
 
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#31
The environment was fairly controlled and cleared of civs, so I don't disagree with giving him the space. Biggest error was officer # 2 attempting to holster his weapon at the second advance by the dude after he had been shot by officer 1. The knife was already on the ground and I think officer 2 decided to go hands on, and never got his weapon holstered, and he almost paid for it. Bet he is glad his partner was a good shot.
 
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#32
I agree that the more the officers backed up, the more the dude was empowered (in his own mind). Also with all the backpedaling, one could have easily tripped and the knife person could have been on him in 2 seconds. With the distance between officers widening, the could be a one dead leo story.

They got lucky, perhaps this learning experience will save them at a future date.
 
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#33
308pirate said:
Knives and impact weapons are deadly weapons. Courts all over the country at every level of the judiciary have ruled so with boring regularity. State statutes define them as such almost universally.

Why are you advocating a less-lethal response to an assault with a deadly weapon?

Assume a threatening posture while armed with a knife, chain, pipe, bat, crowbar, axe handle, etc, and like slash said, you're bought and paid for. You will get shot.
Click to expand...

Not advocating a policy one way or the other. Seen video after video where departments go to non leathal means up against armed people. That’s thier choice, just saying it seems they could use something better.
 
#37
308pirate said:
Bro, it's obvious that you have an agenda that I don't share. I'll leave it at that.
Click to expand...


Cuz the guy was a totally normal dude walking down the street with a knife until the cops got there, and THEN he became homicidal and suicidal. Those dang cops!

Amazed that the hide puts up with so much of AJ’s bs.
 
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#38
clcustom1911 said:
The police are lucky they didn't allow anyone else to be hurt by that suicidal subject due to their inaction. The suspect clearly was ready and willing to do whatever it took to get the police to shoot him.

Body cameras cause some police who lack confidence in their knowledge, skills, and abilities to become squishy because they don't know how or what their policy, case law, and best practices are. These cops are clearly in that group.

As responsibly armed citizens, police, and military: if you are not mentally prepared to use your tools to defend yourself and others against great bodily injury or lethal force, stop carrying or otherwise get out of the profession.
Click to expand...


T.J. Hooker would have used his banned night stick to disarm the punk and subdue him.

 
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#40
Considering how much (at least around here), they spend on every possible toy for the police department and such, I don't think it would be too much to ask them to add a $3k large game net capture system to the kit.

I'm pretty sure one or 2 uses instead of having to shoot someone would cover the cost of a whole bunch of them.

It changes the game a lot because you then don't have only 1 option and you have the option to just roll up and deploy one or two of them immediately if the situation looks dicey.
 
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#44
vh20 said:
I think Officer Harrison is very lucky and needs a little training on when to deploy lethal force. The video says he fired five shots at the suspect and hit him, but then the suspect charges him with the knife and tries to grab his gun...WHICH IS NOW HOLSTERED!?
Click to expand...
I think Officer Harrison needs a career change.........they need welders in Midland TX for the oil boom...........
 
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#45
W54/XM-388 said:
Considering how much (at least around here), they spend on every possible toy for the police department and such, I don't think it would be too much to ask them to add a $3k large game net capture system to the kit.

I'm pretty sure one or 2 uses instead of having to shoot someone would cover the cost of a whole bunch of them.

It changes the game a lot because you then don't have only 1 option and you have the option to just roll up and deploy one or two of them immediately if the situation looks dicey.
Click to expand...

Unless that net is made of steel wire, what fucking good is it draped over a guy who has a sharp blade in his hand?

While the net immobilizes the subject from going anywhere, it doesn't completely immobilize the arms. One of those arms still has a fucking blade attached to the end of it. So now who's going to go hands on with a guy who can still stab anyone who comes within arm's reach? YOU?
 
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#49
ArmyJerry said:
not true, if they are doing constitutional things i have no problem and 100% support them.
Click to expand...
Copy that. I have yet to find a police-related article you have agreed with ? ..

... because a while back you said the Constitution doesn't mention police ???

It's all good. I have 13 work days left of being a road pirate anyway. Then I just be a Paramedic doing Paramedic things.
 
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#50
vh20 said:
I think Officer Harrison is very lucky and needs a little training on when to deploy lethal force. The video says he fired five shots at the suspect and hit him, but then the suspect charges him with the knife and tries to grab his gun...WHICH IS NOW HOLSTERED!?
Click to expand...

Try this video, because that's not what happened at all.

 
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