Will body cams and cell video get cops killed??? This one boils my blood

[Spartan67]

I don’t know you. I only know about you that you just suggested cops shoot someone for disobeying after 2 or 3 commands just so they wouldn’t look bad.

You clearly wrote that.

Ok , Its obvious your not a LEO. The officer is trained to use the level of force 1 level higher then the threat to resolve the situation. The officers did it by the book. Verbal commands, non lethal force, then to deadly force. The perp clearly was a dangerous threat with a deadly weapon in its effective range.
If anything, the perp should have been dropped when he came within 21 ft of the officer the 1st time.
If your never been there, don't sleep in a Super 8 then post.

 

[ArmyJerry]

I’m not LEO but I was Trained to go 10 levels higher than any threat I faced right off. So where does that get us?

Ok , Its obvious your not a LEO. The officer is trained to use the level of force 1 level higher then the threat to resolve the situation. The officers did it by the book. Verbal commands, non lethal force, then to deadly force. The perp clearly was a dangerous threat with a deadly weapon in its effective range.
If anything, the perp should have been dropped when he came within 21 ft of the officer the 1st time.
If your never been there, don't sleep in a Super 8 then post.

 

[supercorndogs]

At 2:29 the perp got danger close and should have been dropped right then. WE were taught that early in training that someone with a knife has the advantage over a holstered gun if the distance is short. Damm fool is lucky to be alive. View attachment 7106775 This is what could have happened.

"Lucky to be alive." Dont pretend if someone touches you with a knife you instantly die. The picture, while completely unrelated to this case, shows some fairly nasty, non- life threatening wounds. I am pretty sure that is the guy who stopped the guy stabbing people in NY correct? Attacked him head on un-armed.

I disarmed kids with shanks at a placement {kid jail/ up to 21} where I worked as a counselor. I helped a bouncer disarm a guy with a knife at a bar. No weapons on us. The bouncer walked up behind me and said "distract him I will get him." I thought, I am happy to take the easy job, because I aint touching him. I started to talk to him and circle him in the opposite direction of the bouncer. He turned his attention away from the guy he had stabbed in the arm. I was ready to run in and grab the arm holding the knife when the bouncer grabbed him. No need, the bouncer hit him so hard the knife flew out of his hand. Dude is probably still feeling it.....10 years later.

 

[JWHITE]

"Lucky to be alive." Dont pretend if someone touches you with a knife you instantly die. The picture, while completely unrelated to this case, shows some fairly nasty, non- life threatening wounds. I am pretty sure that is the guy who stopped the guy stabbing people in NY correct? Attacked him head on un-armed.

I disarmed kids with shanks at a placement {kid jail/ up to 21} where I worked as a counselor. I helped a bouncer disarm a guy with a knife at a bar. No weapons on us. The bouncer walked up behind me and said "distract him I will get him." I thought, I am happy to take the easy job, because I aint touching him. I started to talk to him and circle him in the opposite direction of the bouncer. He turned his attention away from the guy he had stabbed in the arm. I was ready to run in and grab the arm holding the knife when the bouncer grabbed him. No need, the bouncer hit him so hard the knife flew out of his hand. Dude is probably still feeling it.....10 years later.

You can’t pretend that if someone comes at you with a handgun (or any gun for that matter) that you instantly die either.

But what is their intent? The right SOB with a knife gets close to you and you won’t make it. Same with a gun. Luckily a lot of the time the crazy ones aren’t very well trained or informed, but the sun shines on a dogs ass now and then too. Keep rolling those dice sir.

 

[supercorndogs]

You can’t pretend that if someone comes at you with a handgun (or any gun for that matter) that you instantly die either.

But what is their intent? The right SOB with a knife gets close to you and you won’t make it. Same with a gun. Luckily a lot of the time the crazy ones aren’t very well trained or informed, but the sun shines on a dogs ass now and then too. Keep rolling those dice sir.

The effectiveness of a gun is not comparable to a knife, hence the saying. "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight."

"Their intent." No one knows their intent but them.

Play fantasy all you want. You already know if they are waving it around. They are not a master with a knife.

Yep, there is danger in every day life.

"Rolling the dice." Are you speaking of doing my job at the boys ranch, or helping disarm a heavily out numbered guy with knife before he could stab someone again?

 

[JWHITE]

The effectiveness of either compared to one another does not matter. They can both kill you.

Intent- brandish a weapon in a threatening manner...... their true intent doesn’t matter. If I feel threatened, here we go.

You are right about talent with a knife, you’ll prob never see it if they’re talented. That’s why I mentioned luck. Guess the dogs ass statement wasn’t too clear.

Rolling the dice was in reference to willingly opposing someone with a deadly weapon with your bare hands. In a situation where you have no choice, hell yeah let’s do it. But you have to agree that it’s a gamble and if you continue to do such a thing, odds are not in your favor.

 

[DannC]

You did what you needed to do, because you are still here.

I’m not LEO but I was Trained to go 10 levels higher than any threat I faced right off. So where does that get us?

 

[Bullfrog08]

I am confused with the initial response by the two people wearing the blue outfits, why are they pointing guns at a guy with a knife in his hand? Without the backstory, all I see is two guys wearing blue outfits threatening a guy's life, who is holding a knife, for possibly cutting onions at a neighbor' house. The guy with the knife is killed by the two guys wearing the blue outfits.

My point......

If you are wearing a blue outfit and holding a knife at your side to cut onions at your neighbors house and walking down the street, then two guys show up in a orange car, wearing orange jump suits and point guns at you and ultimately kill you while trying to protect yourself.........then how does this story read?

 

[Supersubes]

I am confused with the initial response by the two people wearing the blue outfits, why are they pointing guns at a guy with a knife in his hand? Without the backstory, all I see is two guys wearing blue outfits threatening a guy's life, who is holding a knife, for possibly cutting onions at a neighbor' house. The guy with the knife is killed by the two guys wearing the blue outfits.

My point......

If you are wearing a blue outfit and holding a knife at your side to cut onions at your neighbors house and walking down the street, then two guys show up in a orange car, wearing orange jump suits and point guns at you and ultimately kill you while trying to protect yourself.........then how does this story read?

Yes, you’re very confused.

 

[DannC]

Yes you are very confused. You have created a scenario that did not exist. The officers had info that there was a strange man in their neighborhood carrying a large knife.
Maybe he was going to a neighbors house to cut onions. I think that it would be reasonable to assume that if someone needed onions cut that they might of had some cutting ustensils of their own in what looked to me as a very upscale neighborhood.
Maybe this is a common practice in your neighborhood but not in most of American suburbia.
This was a filmed exercise of suicide by cops. His intent on doing harm was evidenced by his refusal to drop the knife and advanced on the officers.
Maybe he was looking for someone to steal their wallet or to rape and murder your wife or daughter.
One officer almost paid for his humanity by holstering his weapon after firing to retrieve his taser.
The perp is dead so we will never know his true intent. The officers gave him too many chances and lost control of the situation.
They should be commended to for their restraint and I am glad they could go home to their families. Would you have prefered that they remain in their squad cars and not engaged him at all?
To those that opine that the police have no obligation to protect an individual but the community at large, what do you think they did.

 

[deersniper]

Should have shot him in the leg. Or shot the knife out of his hand

 

[DannC]

What if they did shoot him in the leg and bled out because a wounded man with a large knife could not have been given aid. There would be lawsuits for causing pain and suffering. What if the shot to the knife/hand had missed and killed an innocent child standing at a window.

I now realize that many of us in this thread are simply being played. I'm out, but reserve the right to respond to more stupidity.

 

[ArmyJerry]

MEH, ITS A SHIT SHOW, ALL SIDES LOSE, the hatred for the popo builds, coppers are isolating themselves from even their traditional backers, they have been separated by training and militarization, undercurrent of hero mentality. This is all done on purpose, two tiered justice system ensures fealty to the two parties on a local level, union leadership part of the problem. Retards and dogs will pay the highest price but as a tipping point is reached I fear so will cops.

QUOTE="DannC, post: 7833065, member: 109858"]
What if they did shoot him in the leg and bled out because a wounded man with a large knife could not have been given aid. There would be lawsuits for causing pain and suffering. What if the shot to the knife/hand had missed and killed an innocent child standing at a window.

I now realize that many of us in this thread are simply being played. I'm out, but reserve the right to respond to more stupidity.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Bullfrog08]

Yes you are very confused. You have created a scenario that did not exist. The officers had info that there was a strange man in their neighborhood carrying a large knife.
Maybe he was going to a neighbors house to cut onions. I think that it would be reasonable to assume that if someone needed onions cut that they might of had some cutting ustensils of their own in what looked to me as a very upscale neighborhood.
Maybe this is a common practice in your neighborhood but not in most of American suburbia.
This was a filmed exercise of suicide by cops. His intent on doing harm was evidenced by his refusal to drop the knife and advanced on the officers.
Maybe he was looking for someone to steal their wallet or to rape and murder your wife or daughter.
One officer almost paid for his humanity by holstering his weapon after firing to retrieve his taser.
The perp is dead so we will never know his true intent. The officers gave him too many chances and lost control of the situation.
They should be commended to for their restraint and I am glad they could go home to their families. Would you have prefered that they remain in their squad cars and not engaged him at all?
To those that opine that the police have no obligation to protect an individual but the community at large, what do you think they did.

The two boys wearing the blue outfits instigated the violence when they pointed the loaded guns at that guy. There is no way to see it any differently. Remove the color of the outfits, the titles and watch the video, In your mind, put white wife beaters and tats on the guys wearing blue, and then put a blue suit with a silver shinny thing on the guys chest holding the knife.....then watch the video!

Two guys started violence, ended the violence and will be appluaded for the violence. All the other guy did was carry a knife through the wrong neighborhood. I would have put the knife down had I been him, as I want to see tomorrow, but it doesn't make it right! Who knows the guys intent, but maybe a talking too could have prevented this???? Then if he charged, they could have responded.

This reminds of the time in High School when we played Laser tag and the police showed up because somebody seen kids running around with guns. Only it had a differnt ending.........No guns were drawn on us, no swat team showed up, just the local cop and told us to call into the station before we played again, so they could avoid wasting gas..........

 

[W54/XM-388]

Should have shot him in the leg. Or shot the knife out of his hand

Maybe if he was standing still and you had a marksman with a rifle trained on him from a good distance.

Charging the police as they are backing up with just handguns? Nope, they are going to be doing good to hit center mass in a tight enough group to put them down. (As shown by the first round of shots not stopping the threat).

Trying to use Lethal Force tools in a non-lethal way could be very problematic.

 

[deersniper]

Maybe if he was standing still and you had a marksman with a rifle trained on him from a good distance.

Charging the police as they are backing up with just handguns? Nope, they are going to be doing good to hit center mass in a tight enough group to put them down. (As shown by the first round of shots not stopping the threat).

Trying to use Lethal Force tools in a non-lethal way could be very problematic.

If this guy can shoot a gun out of a hand with a rifle at 87 yards, surely a cop can shoot a big knife at less than 5 yards

Video: Sniper shoots gun out of suicidal man's hand

Watch Sniper shoots gun out of suicidal man's hand and other Firearms videos on Police1

www.policeone.com

 

[deersniper]

 

[Inifinty]

Should have shot him in the leg. Or shot the knife out of his hand

Not everyone can operate a pistola like Buster Scruggs. The officers did not want to shoot the target while he wasn't charging in hope that he would not commit to stabbing and slashing.



If the target is somewhat stationary at a distance you might be able to take out the legs. Hip joint is probably the better immobilizing target if that's your intent. Then again a shot may initiate a charge from the guy holding the knife. And once they are running at you fully committed with a knife, that knife will likely find its mark unless the shooter can take out the brain or spine while both are in high speed motion. A taser has probably less of a chance at stopping a clothed determined adversary in full charge.

Skip to the 7:25 mark to see how hard it might be to stop a knife once it is in committed motion. There's almost a minute of running and stabbing and slashing going on there before a bullet finally immobilizes the attacker.

 

[acudaowner]

Another reason I could not be a cop , I would have shot him at the top of the hill when he walked by the white truck as a bullet catch if they missed 2 yells of drop and he still kept walking drop him . Walking backwards over 100 yards then shoot , and let him get back up that's crazy in my mind if he still had the knife that cop would not be seeing his family again . God bless the men and women who do those jobs , as well as emts both jobs that I could never do .

 

[Inifinty]

If this guy can shoot a gun out of a hand with a rifle at 87 yards, surely a cop can shoot a big knife at less than 5 yards

Video: Sniper shoots gun out of suicidal man's hand

Watch Sniper shoots gun out of suicidal man's hand and other Firearms videos on Police1

www.policeone.com

The guy is seated, fully stationary, and keeps placing his weapon in the same pose.. makes for a pretty clean shot. Much different that someone sauntering around on two feet with a weapon moving in hand.

 

[TheGerman]

Worst draw, presentation and grip. EVER.

PS - When you draw a weapon, dont ever put it away unless the threat is gone. I thought they taught this shit?

 

[DannC]

Many people in this thread need to watch the second video in MTN's post #168 in this thread several times and decide if this is the outcome you want.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Many people in this thread need to watch the second video in MTN's post #168 in this thread several times and decide if this is the outcome you want.

In that video the authorities were moronically stupid and paid for it dearly....

 

[Inifinty]

In that video the authorities were moronically stupid and paid for it dearly....

You see that hesitation with trying to talk the perp down quite a lot though. And the hesitation is probably fed by the pressure of video oversight over every move and word said. Going back to the topic of this thread.

Oversight is fine I suppose as long as the departments enable their police to protect themselves and bystanders more than the person causing danger to others.

 

[ArmyJerry]

I am on board taking the cameras away as long as we take the guns away and give them billy clubs instead.

 

[Zorrosdens]

Wouldn’t work of course.