SWISS GP11 7.5X55 FMJ LEAD CORE 480 RDS/CASE
480 round case of 7.5x55mm Swiss GP11 ammunition. Sealed case.
edelweissarms.com
GP11 Fans
- Thread starter pmclaine
- Start date
edelweissarms.com
I feel old sitting here reminiscing about all the 60 round battlepacks I used to buy for about 35 cents a round. Now I'm going to go into hoarder mode and limit my K31 shooting...
I gave ten bucks a bag for that stuff many moons ago. Back when I first got my k-31. I paid $2.99 for the separate boxes of ten, but in the bag, it was quite a bit cheaper. I miss those days. I had even thought seriously about starting to reload Berdan due to this cartridge. Then Graf's got boxer brass for them (PPU). The hunt was then on to find a bullet like the Swiss 174. I've never had the ability to get one as good as theirs.
The “Good Old Days”
The list goes on.....
I can remember the Deputy laughing at me when I asked him politely to hold the door open at a Indy1500 Show while I got a running start with the dolly to make it over the door threshold. He did and wished me a good afternoon. Lol
- 9mm Wolf for $70/1K
- 7.62x39 Wolf for $80/1K
- South African 5.56 for $140/case brown tubs for $200
- 7.62x51 Port for $149/1K
- 1919a1 kits for $300
The list goes on.....
I can remember the Deputy laughing at me when I asked him politely to hold the door open at a Indy1500 Show while I got a running start with the dolly to make it over the door threshold. He did and wished me a good afternoon. Lol
Yeah, same here - too much, and it's a shame they are berdan! I tried the hydraulic depriming and hated it.
Settled on PPU brass, 178 ELDM, and 50.2 grains R17. Close enough.
Settled on PPU brass, 178 ELDM, and 50.2 grains R17. Close enough.
Missed one:
1800 rd. of Turk 8mm for $80 I still have 1200 rds. left. It's hot-hot! And, from what I've chronoed and shot, the only thing that ever shot it accurately, was my Turk 1942.
Oh hell yeah...forgot about the 8mm. I still got a bunch of the Turk stuff in the bandoleers, the Yugo or Serb stuff too...or is it Romanian...I dunno...its the stuff in the brown paper boxes stamped ‘56 I think.
The other thing (in my opinion only) that keeps me away from the G11 is that it’s now a finite quantity. It may trickle in now and again at a dribble, but it’s not made anymore. It’s over. It’s like peak oil right? I’d rather find a substitute that is long term and available. Ammo is a fungible.
The other thing (in my opinion only) that keeps me away from the G11 is that it’s now a finite quantity. It may trickle in now and again at a dribble, but it’s not made anymore. It’s over. It’s like peak oil right? I’d rather find a substitute that is long term and available. Ammo is a fungible.
Nope. It's still being made as of 2017. The last run was made in 1995 and the new run has no wax ring and is not crimped. Unfortunately it's still Berdan primed. It's in Canada at a few shooting clubs and in Switzerland in quantity. Once the 1995 run is gone the new schtuff will be showing up in the US. Be patient. Edelweiss is a rip-off with GP11.
Ahh...understood. Thanks for the information and the correction. Everywhere I read said it was done and what was left was the only supply. So much for the “internet of truth” huh?
I received my custom Hornady case for measuring. I had to get a bit innovative with the comparator rod as I have the straight one (as opposed to the curved) and the length and shape of the receiver required a bit of “work around” to get it to work. Unfortunately, the results with the 175smk left a bit to be desired. It appears to be a rather long throat. In order to obtain a .030” jump, the bullet needs to be loaded quite long. It still fits in the magazine, but the amount of bullet in the case mouth is not very substantial. I’m getting a steady reading of 2.515” CBTO using the 175smk and the .30cal comparator insert. I have a test spread loaded with the 165gr PSPCL and the plan now is to see how these shoot before I start experimenting with yet another bullet and powder.
Work once again calls, so all this will be put on hold for another week to 10 days while I go out and do what needs doin’.
I received my custom Hornady case for measuring. I had to get a bit innovative with the comparator rod as I have the straight one (as opposed to the curved) and the length and shape of the receiver required a bit of “work around” to get it to work. Unfortunately, the results with the 175smk left a bit to be desired. It appears to be a rather long throat. In order to obtain a .030” jump, the bullet needs to be loaded quite long. It still fits in the magazine, but the amount of bullet in the case mouth is not very substantial. I’m getting a steady reading of 2.515” CBTO using the 175smk and the .30cal comparator insert. I have a test spread loaded with the 165gr PSPCL and the plan now is to see how these shoot before I start experimenting with yet another bullet and powder.
Work once again calls, so all this will be put on hold for another week to 10 days while I go out and do what needs doin’.
That 175SMK should be a very accurate projectile with the right powder, shallow seat depth and the right neck tension. If you feel like it, give me a buzz on the Swiss Products help line some time. It's on the opening page.
-32 here in Lost Prairie this morning, but with the heated ShootShed, it doesn't stop those who aren't faint of heart. LOL
-32 here in Lost Prairie this morning, but with the heated ShootShed, it doesn't stop those who aren't faint of heart. LOL
Yea, its been quite the winter in the upper plains/midwest too... Lots of snow and cold in the Dakotas...
Thanks for the offer. Just might take you up on that. Let me see where the 165s take me. I have two other projects in que as well. A final test on a .300wm load, and a mid-process development with a 7mm RM. if I get too into the weeds with too many projects, NOTHING gets done! Lol
Quite the setup you got there. I’m jealous. My 100yd “range” backs up to the patio door, so my biggest issue is the dog barking at me because he thinks gunshots=playtime.
Thanks for the offer. Just might take you up on that. Let me see where the 165s take me. I have two other projects in que as well. A final test on a .300wm load, and a mid-process development with a 7mm RM. if I get too into the weeds with too many projects, NOTHING gets done! Lol
Quite the setup you got there. I’m jealous. My 100yd “range” backs up to the patio door, so my biggest issue is the dog barking at me because he thinks gunshots=playtime.
During the winter it's the one we have to use. The 500 yard range is 3' in snow. Too deep to change targets out.
I remember the good old days too.
.22lr Russian Biathlon Match, 500 rounds @ $9.95. From now gone Cascade, greasy, but shot awesome, I should have bought a pallet.
9mm Win or Rem value pack of 100 for $9.95 at Wally World all the time.
5.56 XM 193 Federal brown box, 1,000 rounds $169.95 at shows.
7.62x51 Federal M80, 500 rounds, $119.95 at many gun shows, buy 2, get a better deal.
7.62x39 Lapua, 1200 round case at a Pawn store, $300.00, I stole this!
Man, this hurts!
.22lr Russian Biathlon Match, 500 rounds @ $9.95. From now gone Cascade, greasy, but shot awesome, I should have bought a pallet.
9mm Win or Rem value pack of 100 for $9.95 at Wally World all the time.
5.56 XM 193 Federal brown box, 1,000 rounds $169.95 at shows.
7.62x51 Federal M80, 500 rounds, $119.95 at many gun shows, buy 2, get a better deal.
7.62x39 Lapua, 1200 round case at a Pawn store, $300.00, I stole this!
Man, this hurts!
Wow, does that bring back memories of shooting in N. Syracuse in the late '60's early '70's! My fantastic Dad would drive me (everyone had sets of studded snow tires just for the Winter, October thru March) to a field near our house, get out the cardboard and mat, and we would just plink at everything! Great times, great memories!
Thank you Sir for the trip back to memory lane, I needed it as I am now dealing with his Estate.
I found a case of GP11 online for about .50 per round but my local range doesn't allow FMJ. Alsp the bullets have a jacket that has iron in it so it won't pass the magnet test either.
I bought the 7.5 Swiss dies and loaded my first box of 20 and discovered the sizer die bumps the shoulder back so far that the striker won't hit the primer. Never encountered that before.
Lastly, you guys are a bad in influence. I went to Swiss Products a ordered a scope base and a muzzle brake. They had rings also but I can't imagine they are any good for $13.
I bought the 7.5 Swiss dies and loaded my first box of 20 and discovered the sizer die bumps the shoulder back so far that the striker won't hit the primer. Never encountered that before.
Lastly, you guys are a bad in influence. I went to Swiss Products a ordered a scope base and a muzzle brake. They had rings also but I can't imagine they are any good for $13.
Get the Redding sizer die. The chamber in the 7.5x55 was cut "roomy" so dirty ammo could get shoved in and fired. I think the part number of the die was 91235(?)
Added:
If you have any fresh 7.5 cases, measure them against a fired 7.5 case from your K-31. You will note it is much larger at the shoulder. The tight headspace allows this to be shot safely. It's much like fireforming a case.
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$13 rings? We don't carry rings. Recommended are Warne rings with the 3/8" clamps. Tasco and Millet Tikka are good 0nes too.
Sandwarrior is right about the right dies. Did you happen to buy Lee dies?
"Sriker won't hit the primer". Did you FLS your brass? If this is your first time reloading for this specific caliber, go here and check this out............ www.swissproductsusa.com
Faq's "What is the process" etc for reloading.
Also be sure to read the one on a correct sight picture.
Read the other FAQ's. You'll find some very informative schtuff.
P
Sandwarrior is right about the right dies. Did you happen to buy Lee dies?
"Sriker won't hit the primer". Did you FLS your brass? If this is your first time reloading for this specific caliber, go here and check this out............ www.swissproductsusa.com
Faq's "What is the process" etc for reloading.
Also be sure to read the one on a correct sight picture.
Read the other FAQ's. You'll find some very informative schtuff.
P
A bit more info.
Some aren't aware that the Swiss straight-pull rifles often won't fire if the bolt isn't fully closed before pulling the trigger.
The symptoms are always the same: "the primer was lightly indented but didn't fire." Sometimes this is followed by "I know the bolt was closed because I checked after the misfire."
When the striker falls with the bolt not fully closed, a shoulder on it hits a projection on the operating rod -
If the operating rod isn't all the way forward, the energy of the mainspring tries to push it the rest of the way. If there isn't any abnormal resistance, it will usually succeed - simultaneously rotating the bolt sleeve to the fully locked position by the action of the middle section of this same projection on the sleeve's cam slot.
Since all this pushing and rotating uses up a good part of the energy stored in the mainspring, often there isn't enough left to fire the primer. The result? "The primer was dented but didn't fire. I know the bolt was closed because I checked after. . ."
If you're having this kind of problem, try checking before pulling the trigger. With the K31, it's easy to see if the bolt is closed by looking at the serial number on the sleeve -
If that number is not at the 12 o'clock position, the bolt is definitely not closed and a misfire is likely. When you're in shooting position, cheek on the comb, concentrating on the sights, you can't see any of this and it feels like the handle is all the way home. On the 1889 and 1911 actions, the serial number doesn't rotate, but you can still check to see if the operating rod is fully forward.
With factory ammunition or good handloads this kind of misfire seldom occurs because the incremental force needed for that last 1/2 inch of op rod travel (when the extractor has to snap over the rim and the final compression of the mainspring occurs) is very small. The momentum of your arm and the bolt does the job easily.
Cases insufficiently resized and bullets seated too long are the usual reasons for enough added resistance to cause a whole string of these "rifle" malfunctions.
*Thanks for the photos Eric*
Some aren't aware that the Swiss straight-pull rifles often won't fire if the bolt isn't fully closed before pulling the trigger.
The symptoms are always the same: "the primer was lightly indented but didn't fire." Sometimes this is followed by "I know the bolt was closed because I checked after the misfire."
When the striker falls with the bolt not fully closed, a shoulder on it hits a projection on the operating rod -
If the operating rod isn't all the way forward, the energy of the mainspring tries to push it the rest of the way. If there isn't any abnormal resistance, it will usually succeed - simultaneously rotating the bolt sleeve to the fully locked position by the action of the middle section of this same projection on the sleeve's cam slot.
Since all this pushing and rotating uses up a good part of the energy stored in the mainspring, often there isn't enough left to fire the primer. The result? "The primer was dented but didn't fire. I know the bolt was closed because I checked after. . ."
If you're having this kind of problem, try checking before pulling the trigger. With the K31, it's easy to see if the bolt is closed by looking at the serial number on the sleeve -
If that number is not at the 12 o'clock position, the bolt is definitely not closed and a misfire is likely. When you're in shooting position, cheek on the comb, concentrating on the sights, you can't see any of this and it feels like the handle is all the way home. On the 1889 and 1911 actions, the serial number doesn't rotate, but you can still check to see if the operating rod is fully forward.
With factory ammunition or good handloads this kind of misfire seldom occurs because the incremental force needed for that last 1/2 inch of op rod travel (when the extractor has to snap over the rim and the final compression of the mainspring occurs) is very small. The momentum of your arm and the bolt does the job easily.
Cases insufficiently resized and bullets seated too long are the usual reasons for enough added resistance to cause a whole string of these "rifle" malfunctions.
*Thanks for the photos Eric*
Another piece of advice for loading for the K31 is to bump the shoulder back the proper amount for "your" specific sizing die and chamber.
Standard for most bolt rifles is a .002 shoulder bump. Well that results in "not enough" shoulder bump for my dies and K31. I think it was .0035" bump before my bolt would close "all" the time, without forcing the bolt closed.
It isn't necessary for the bottom of the die to contact the shell holder, as long as you have the correct amount of sizing you are GTG.
Just last week I had to remove .043" off the bottom of my brand new Hornady 5.7x28 FL sizing die just to get the same amount of shoulder bump as factory ammo has???!!! I hate sending things back! Usually when I do, they - whichever Co, would send another faulty item out as a replacement, so if I can, I fix it myself.
Standard for most bolt rifles is a .002 shoulder bump. Well that results in "not enough" shoulder bump for my dies and K31. I think it was .0035" bump before my bolt would close "all" the time, without forcing the bolt closed.
It isn't necessary for the bottom of the die to contact the shell holder, as long as you have the correct amount of sizing you are GTG.
Just last week I had to remove .043" off the bottom of my brand new Hornady 5.7x28 FL sizing die just to get the same amount of shoulder bump as factory ammo has???!!! I hate sending things back! Usually when I do, they - whichever Co, would send another faulty item out as a replacement, so if I can, I fix it myself.
FLS with a Redding or RCBS will work every time, but it must be a full length size with the press camming over at the top.
And a note: Do NOT fall short of the full length sizing. Swiss cartridges definitely do not like neck or partial case sizing.
Update to my previous post. Bought bullet and setback comparators to see if I could take the guesswork out of loading for my k31. Turns out my i wasnt bumping the shoulder back enough and the 180 grain SGKs were loaded too long. Now that I have that straight I hope to find an accurate load with H4350.
I bought a lot of the GP11 back in the olden days when it was cheaper. I find that I'm loading my own for the Desert Tactical barrel I made up using Privi brass, Sierra 175gr matchkings and 51gr of RL17. Half inch at a 100 yds is normal with that rifle. I don't shoot the Straight Pulls much anymore and the MG11 is running Romanian 8mm instead of the harder to get and more expensive 7.5mm. Love the non-corrosive GP11 but I clean the machinegun pretty well regardless so it isn't a problem. I also found the privi brass and matchking load works really well in the PE57.
Frank
Frank
Do a FLS with the RCBS (which I've used for some 45 years) or what we now use is the Redding. Love that one. No adjusting. FULL length size with the press camming over at the top. That's important with the Swiss cartridge.
Read this or go to the FAQ section on my website swissproductsusa.com
My "platform" is the basis upon which all of my load data begins, and it's NOT that hard. You can analyze, illustrate, debate and tweak till the cows come home but it all ends with one single base. Your case preparation.
My credentials? 52 years of reloading and 42 of those devoted to the 7.5 Swiss cartridge. Load data of mine that was in use long before the manuals figured out that their own data was erroneous and based on the wrong rifle. Do I have any magic? Absolutely not. Is there anything mysterious or technically difficult to understand about how I do it? Absolutely not. Have I varied one iota from my original "platform" in case preparation? Absolutely not.... and yet I see a supposed mystique surrounding the reloading for this cartridge evoking all kinds of semi confusing answers that are completely unnecessary.
I won't argue with anyone about presses or dies. This is what works for me, take it or leave it. Want to use a different press or die set? Go for it. After all these years and many thousands of successful rounds downrange, I'm not changing anything, however, advances in technology may now dictate other wise to you.
A) Whatever kind of press you have, using Redding Comp, RCBS dies or your own choice, run the ram all the way up. Turn your sizing/decapping die all the way down against the shellholder. Lower the ram and turn the die down another 1/2 turn or so, maybe even less, but make sure that when you run the ram back up the ram "cams over" at the top of the stroke. This is "full length sizing". I don't want to hear about all of the variables in die setting possibilities with all of the other cartridges you use. For the 7.5 Swiss, make your press cam-over at the top of the stroke to begin. Find a better way for youself later? Why not.
Neck sizing? Forget it. After very few times fired in a k31 your case won't be chambering anyway. Even if you do neck size, your case will have to be hand-fed into the chamber and indexed to exactly the same "o'clock" position every time to be effective. Not all k31 chambers are identical. I do it with a few of my commercial rifles with some success. 7.5 Swiss? Forget it. Its an exercise in futility that won't shade my loads anyway, and there are many local k31 owners that are now believers.
I've used a myriad of presses, both fixed and progressive over the years and the RCBS Rockchucker was my mainstay for load data development until the Dillon 550B came along. We now use a Forster almost exclusively for precision reloading.
Though I have a spread of other mfg's dies, Redding comp is all I use for the 7.5 Swiss. I currently have 6 sets of RCBS as well.
B) Set your decapper to the proper depth allowing just a bit of the tip to appear through the bottom of the shellholder. Screw it in too deeply and you'll bend the shaft and ruin a case. Lock the die into place.
1) Use a case tumbler or a washing machine to get your brass clean. If its a washing machine, put all the brass in a pillowcase, tie the top and wash them in hot water with a good dishwashing soap. Shake all the water out and let them dry overnight on a towel.
2) TTL.... Trim To Length. Our spec will be 2.179 or less. I suggest you don't trim much shorter than 2.160.
Ream and champfer the case mouths. If you don't have that little tool, buy one.
3) Lubing: Use a case lube/pad combo or the new sprays which I consider superior. Plain old Castor Oil works great too (Now preferred). If its a pad, use your fingers to spread the lube evenly over the surface of the pad and roll the cases completely. Use your finger and tip the case mouth down and roll that too. Don't get lube on the shoulders. This type of lube is non-compressible and can dent your case shoulders upon sizing. Use a mouth brush to get inside, but use it sparingly.
Spray: Using a cookie sheet, line it with aluminum foil and lay your cases down on their sides with all the mouths facing toward you. Holding the can at a 45 degree angle, spray from the rear of the cases toward the mouth allowing spray to enter the case mouths. Using the flat of your hand, roll the cases around and hit the case mouths once more very lightly. If it's to be Castor Oil, use it sparingly. It goes a long way.
Spray lube and Castor Oil are not of the non-compressible variety so you won't have a problem with the case shoulders as long as you don't overdo it..
4) Lightly coat the inside of your die with spray lube. Do NOT do this with paste lube. Put a case in the shell holder and run it up firmly but gently. If you feel any resistance, STOP! Lower the ram and check the depth of your decapper. Check to make sure the inside your die was actually polished at the factory. This is not at all unheard of. I've gotten 3 of these over the years and they will not allow you to run the case in.
Assuming your ram cammed-over at the top of the stroke, you should now have a properly sized case that will chamber without any resistance in your chamber.
Have to hit your bolthandle with the palm of your hand to get it to chamber? Projectile seating aside, it won't be because you didn't size your case correctly.
I've read plenty of rationale on chambering, and (without telling you how many Swiss rifles I have) None of mine chamber other than smoothly and easily, without rapping.
5) Clean your primer pockets with the appropriate tool. I use the small, formed wire brush in a plastic handle meant for this procedure. Seat your primers dead flush with the case base.
6) Projectile seating: It is not at all necessary to crimp for the 7.5 Swiss rifles. Crimping introduces a variable that you don't need. The grip of the case mouth on the bullet will not be identical every single time, thus, the unwanted variable.
To determine proper seat depth for any given projectile, keep in mind that the measurement is only valid when the contact of the bullet's ogive and the lands/grooves is determined.
Your manual says OAL is 3.020?... maybe for that bullet that they used, but only for that bullet profile, not all others. Projectile profiles vary from mfg to mfg. So how do you do it?
There are any number of ways, but I've always used the same methodology. Take a sized, empty and unprimed, uncharged case, start a bullet into the case mouth leaving it protruding further than is apparently correct. Place it in the rifle's chamber by hand, ease the bolt into full battery and "smartly" eject it. Measure that OAL and seat it 2 to 4 thousandths deeper. This is a good start. Later, when you've become more deeply involved in data gathering, you may want to play with seat depths to find the sweet spot for your cartridge. I have specifics I use regularly. Bear in mind that the k31 has a short throat, and the k31 typically prefers the ogive very close to the lands.
Yes, there are other ways. If you like your way better .......use it.
Once you determine your chambered OAL for that bullet, screw your seating die down until the mouth of an empty case stops the descent and back it out a full turn. Lock the die in place and back out the seater.
That method is only going to work for one bullet profile, and it its a hollow point its not going to be accurate anway since not all meplats are the same even in the same box. Your bullet seater should be indexed behind the tip ahead of the ogive, not on the tip of the bullet. A Sierra 175 MK is not going to be the same as a Berger 175 VLD at all. Both should index on an area ahead of the ogive, but not all ogives are the same distance from either the case mouth or the bullet tip. If you use just the tip you're going to have two completely different freebores (jump) for the same caliber, weight and charge with likely two different results.
Now measure it and decide how far off the lands you want to begin. Note that figure and begin working out your load, adjusting seat depth as you go. But remember that was only for that bullet profile. Change profiles and you're back to square one.
Find load data that might be in a trusted manual or proven data from the board. Always begin with a lesser load even if the data you find "appears" to be proven.
"Stand up and shoot it like a man!"
Only if Jeff Cooper is watching, otherwise use a bench rest when developing your load data. Use the same rest or bagging methodology every time you shoot. Remove all variables from your data gathering..... and that's the secret, gents. Consistency. Consistency.
Ok, the final step I consider important if you're striving to squeeze every ounce of accuracy out of your Swiss rifles is.............. www.swissrifles.com/sr/pierre/accurizing.html
Does it work? You'd have to ask those who have used the methodology, and there are a lot of them now. I have read a few comments about how it "didn't work for me. A waste of time". It probably was, for those folks. They didn't follow the process correctly and most likely were shooting unproven loads with improperly sized cases or stocks with an unnoticed, inherent problem. All of my rifles are accurized, and every one of them improved forthwith.
To wrap this up, I advise that you remove every single variable that you can think of. When reloading, never vary from your case prep (hopefully successful) formula. When shooting for load data, never vary from your shooting stance/position. Record results from every single target you print. Be careful and I wish you success.
P
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There are a lot of ways to get to the same positive end result. This is one that worked for him, and it works for me with Swiss Rifles. If you find better ways, use them, but be careful. Use manufacturers books and read the cautions and limits.
I should add that we now use Redding Competition bushing dies for almost everything including 7.5 Swiss.
Read this or go to the FAQ section on my website swissproductsusa.com
My "platform" is the basis upon which all of my load data begins, and it's NOT that hard. You can analyze, illustrate, debate and tweak till the cows come home but it all ends with one single base. Your case preparation.
My credentials? 52 years of reloading and 42 of those devoted to the 7.5 Swiss cartridge. Load data of mine that was in use long before the manuals figured out that their own data was erroneous and based on the wrong rifle. Do I have any magic? Absolutely not. Is there anything mysterious or technically difficult to understand about how I do it? Absolutely not. Have I varied one iota from my original "platform" in case preparation? Absolutely not.... and yet I see a supposed mystique surrounding the reloading for this cartridge evoking all kinds of semi confusing answers that are completely unnecessary.
I won't argue with anyone about presses or dies. This is what works for me, take it or leave it. Want to use a different press or die set? Go for it. After all these years and many thousands of successful rounds downrange, I'm not changing anything, however, advances in technology may now dictate other wise to you.
A) Whatever kind of press you have, using Redding Comp, RCBS dies or your own choice, run the ram all the way up. Turn your sizing/decapping die all the way down against the shellholder. Lower the ram and turn the die down another 1/2 turn or so, maybe even less, but make sure that when you run the ram back up the ram "cams over" at the top of the stroke. This is "full length sizing". I don't want to hear about all of the variables in die setting possibilities with all of the other cartridges you use. For the 7.5 Swiss, make your press cam-over at the top of the stroke to begin. Find a better way for youself later? Why not.
Neck sizing? Forget it. After very few times fired in a k31 your case won't be chambering anyway. Even if you do neck size, your case will have to be hand-fed into the chamber and indexed to exactly the same "o'clock" position every time to be effective. Not all k31 chambers are identical. I do it with a few of my commercial rifles with some success. 7.5 Swiss? Forget it. Its an exercise in futility that won't shade my loads anyway, and there are many local k31 owners that are now believers.
I've used a myriad of presses, both fixed and progressive over the years and the RCBS Rockchucker was my mainstay for load data development until the Dillon 550B came along. We now use a Forster almost exclusively for precision reloading.
Though I have a spread of other mfg's dies, Redding comp is all I use for the 7.5 Swiss. I currently have 6 sets of RCBS as well.
B) Set your decapper to the proper depth allowing just a bit of the tip to appear through the bottom of the shellholder. Screw it in too deeply and you'll bend the shaft and ruin a case. Lock the die into place.
1) Use a case tumbler or a washing machine to get your brass clean. If its a washing machine, put all the brass in a pillowcase, tie the top and wash them in hot water with a good dishwashing soap. Shake all the water out and let them dry overnight on a towel.
2) TTL.... Trim To Length. Our spec will be 2.179 or less. I suggest you don't trim much shorter than 2.160.
Ream and champfer the case mouths. If you don't have that little tool, buy one.
3) Lubing: Use a case lube/pad combo or the new sprays which I consider superior. Plain old Castor Oil works great too (Now preferred). If its a pad, use your fingers to spread the lube evenly over the surface of the pad and roll the cases completely. Use your finger and tip the case mouth down and roll that too. Don't get lube on the shoulders. This type of lube is non-compressible and can dent your case shoulders upon sizing. Use a mouth brush to get inside, but use it sparingly.
Spray: Using a cookie sheet, line it with aluminum foil and lay your cases down on their sides with all the mouths facing toward you. Holding the can at a 45 degree angle, spray from the rear of the cases toward the mouth allowing spray to enter the case mouths. Using the flat of your hand, roll the cases around and hit the case mouths once more very lightly. If it's to be Castor Oil, use it sparingly. It goes a long way.
Spray lube and Castor Oil are not of the non-compressible variety so you won't have a problem with the case shoulders as long as you don't overdo it..
4) Lightly coat the inside of your die with spray lube. Do NOT do this with paste lube. Put a case in the shell holder and run it up firmly but gently. If you feel any resistance, STOP! Lower the ram and check the depth of your decapper. Check to make sure the inside your die was actually polished at the factory. This is not at all unheard of. I've gotten 3 of these over the years and they will not allow you to run the case in.
Assuming your ram cammed-over at the top of the stroke, you should now have a properly sized case that will chamber without any resistance in your chamber.
Have to hit your bolthandle with the palm of your hand to get it to chamber? Projectile seating aside, it won't be because you didn't size your case correctly.
I've read plenty of rationale on chambering, and (without telling you how many Swiss rifles I have) None of mine chamber other than smoothly and easily, without rapping.
5) Clean your primer pockets with the appropriate tool. I use the small, formed wire brush in a plastic handle meant for this procedure. Seat your primers dead flush with the case base.
6) Projectile seating: It is not at all necessary to crimp for the 7.5 Swiss rifles. Crimping introduces a variable that you don't need. The grip of the case mouth on the bullet will not be identical every single time, thus, the unwanted variable.
To determine proper seat depth for any given projectile, keep in mind that the measurement is only valid when the contact of the bullet's ogive and the lands/grooves is determined.
Your manual says OAL is 3.020?... maybe for that bullet that they used, but only for that bullet profile, not all others. Projectile profiles vary from mfg to mfg. So how do you do it?
There are any number of ways, but I've always used the same methodology. Take a sized, empty and unprimed, uncharged case, start a bullet into the case mouth leaving it protruding further than is apparently correct. Place it in the rifle's chamber by hand, ease the bolt into full battery and "smartly" eject it. Measure that OAL and seat it 2 to 4 thousandths deeper. This is a good start. Later, when you've become more deeply involved in data gathering, you may want to play with seat depths to find the sweet spot for your cartridge. I have specifics I use regularly. Bear in mind that the k31 has a short throat, and the k31 typically prefers the ogive very close to the lands.
Yes, there are other ways. If you like your way better .......use it.
Once you determine your chambered OAL for that bullet, screw your seating die down until the mouth of an empty case stops the descent and back it out a full turn. Lock the die in place and back out the seater.
That method is only going to work for one bullet profile, and it its a hollow point its not going to be accurate anway since not all meplats are the same even in the same box. Your bullet seater should be indexed behind the tip ahead of the ogive, not on the tip of the bullet. A Sierra 175 MK is not going to be the same as a Berger 175 VLD at all. Both should index on an area ahead of the ogive, but not all ogives are the same distance from either the case mouth or the bullet tip. If you use just the tip you're going to have two completely different freebores (jump) for the same caliber, weight and charge with likely two different results.
Now measure it and decide how far off the lands you want to begin. Note that figure and begin working out your load, adjusting seat depth as you go. But remember that was only for that bullet profile. Change profiles and you're back to square one.
Find load data that might be in a trusted manual or proven data from the board. Always begin with a lesser load even if the data you find "appears" to be proven.
"Stand up and shoot it like a man!"
Only if Jeff Cooper is watching, otherwise use a bench rest when developing your load data. Use the same rest or bagging methodology every time you shoot. Remove all variables from your data gathering..... and that's the secret, gents. Consistency. Consistency.
Ok, the final step I consider important if you're striving to squeeze every ounce of accuracy out of your Swiss rifles is.............. www.swissrifles.com/sr/pierre/accurizing.html
Does it work? You'd have to ask those who have used the methodology, and there are a lot of them now. I have read a few comments about how it "didn't work for me. A waste of time". It probably was, for those folks. They didn't follow the process correctly and most likely were shooting unproven loads with improperly sized cases or stocks with an unnoticed, inherent problem. All of my rifles are accurized, and every one of them improved forthwith.
To wrap this up, I advise that you remove every single variable that you can think of. When reloading, never vary from your case prep (hopefully successful) formula. When shooting for load data, never vary from your shooting stance/position. Record results from every single target you print. Be careful and I wish you success.
P
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There are a lot of ways to get to the same positive end result. This is one that worked for him, and it works for me with Swiss Rifles. If you find better ways, use them, but be careful. Use manufacturers books and read the cautions and limits.
I should add that we now use Redding Competition bushing dies for almost everything including 7.5 Swiss.
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zfk55r, thanks for the very detailed post re reloading the 7.5 Swiss. Your experience is much appreciated, but can I ask for one more piece of wisdom?
"Find load data that might be in a trusted manual or proven data from the board. Always begin with a lesser load even if the data you find "appears" to be proven."
...neither Sierra 5th Edition or Nosler's current reloading book list the 7.5x55mm Swiss. Berger does list this round and lists about 6 powders, and Hornady lists 7 powders, but I was curious what specific powder and weight gave you best accuracy with something common like a 175 SMK bullet. Any advice is appreciated, knowing that one must always work up slowly, thanks.
"Find load data that might be in a trusted manual or proven data from the board. Always begin with a lesser load even if the data you find "appears" to be proven."
...neither Sierra 5th Edition or Nosler's current reloading book list the 7.5x55mm Swiss. Berger does list this round and lists about 6 powders, and Hornady lists 7 powders, but I was curious what specific powder and weight gave you best accuracy with something common like a 175 SMK bullet. Any advice is appreciated, knowing that one must always work up slowly, thanks.
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Are you sure about Sierra? The one in the armoury library has a section of 5 different projectile profiles.
Ok, so......... if you go here and click on the FAQ, you'll find some 50 years of load data compressed down to just the best performing projectile profiles and powders. www.swissproductsusa.com
Click on the "What Projectiles and powders should I begin with" For today, there is one setup that's not yet there. I've not posted it there yet because every single rifle, pistol and revolver in the armoury have hBN slurry sealed bores, and we only fire ICPs..... but........ I was out there early this morning and found the old pre-hBN data we used. The projectiles are the SMK175, the Berger VLD175 and the Hornady ELD190's. The powder is RE17 and if you begin with 49gr and work your way up, you'll get to a very accurate load. Start with 45gr for the 190's.
Take the time to go through the FAQs on the website. I've been transferring my archives from swissrifles dot com over the past couple of months. I'm one of the 2 founders of www.swissrifles.com s0me 20 years ago, but I'm now retired. My son is now the Chief Mod there. You'll see the Swis Products page there in the Forums section. Lots of info there.
The process for slurry sealing and Impact Coated Projectiles will be there in a few more days. Tripling barrel life is a huge deal for us here at the SP armoury.
Ok, so......... if you go here and click on the FAQ, you'll find some 50 years of load data compressed down to just the best performing projectile profiles and powders. www.swissproductsusa.com
Click on the "What Projectiles and powders should I begin with" For today, there is one setup that's not yet there. I've not posted it there yet because every single rifle, pistol and revolver in the armoury have hBN slurry sealed bores, and we only fire ICPs..... but........ I was out there early this morning and found the old pre-hBN data we used. The projectiles are the SMK175, the Berger VLD175 and the Hornady ELD190's. The powder is RE17 and if you begin with 49gr and work your way up, you'll get to a very accurate load. Start with 45gr for the 190's.
Take the time to go through the FAQs on the website. I've been transferring my archives from swissrifles dot com over the past couple of months. I'm one of the 2 founders of www.swissrifles.com s0me 20 years ago, but I'm now retired. My son is now the Chief Mod there. You'll see the Swis Products page there in the Forums section. Lots of info there.
The process for slurry sealing and Impact Coated Projectiles will be there in a few more days. Tripling barrel life is a huge deal for us here at the SP armoury.
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Well...never say never right?
Kids back off away at school, life settled down a bit, back to more frivolous endeavors. Shelf in the loading room still has the test run of 165gr PLSP ready to going in a bit dusty MEC box. I figured I needed a place to start and gauge accuracy and progress so sprung for three bricks of the GP11. Hopefully, a box or two tops to get tuned in and a base for comparison of the hand loads.
Still torn between getting a set of diopters or sticking glass on it. (It’s a 1911 that shows some promise.) The end of September will find me with some free time and at the usual pasture for a bit of LR shooting. (~1000yds) The goal is to have this project set up (with whatever sighting system I decide) and ready to ding some steel. Of course, suggestions and insight on the above are always recommended.
Diopters. I had glass on my K31 for a while, and it shot great but somehow it just ruined the character of the rifle, kinda like having a 10" touchscreen in the dash of an otherwise original 69 Camaro. Worked great but didn't fit.
I have yet to toss or recycle GP11 empties.
Very interesting. I've heard of guys machining pockets before but have never seen this product.I have yet to toss or recycle GP11 empties.
It's perfectly doable to reload for Berdans. Unfortunately, here in the U. S. we didn't adopt that system, so nothing is made for it to do that here that is economically viable. Cuz I think hell yeah, I'd reload Swiss cases! And 8mm, and 6.5, 5.56, and 7mm....I have yet to toss or recycle GP11 empties.
Lots of Swiss rifles in the SP armoury, but......... The G11 has been my favorite since 1959 when I bought my first one. It's also the reason we developed the Clamp On Mount for the G11. It will take either a scope of the new G11 Diopter system, which now will go to 1,200+ yards..
https://www.swissproductsusa.com/product-page/1911-clamp-on-scope-mount
https://www.swissproductsusa.com/product-page/p11-diopter
https://www.swissproductsusa.com/product-page/1911-clamp-on-scope-mount
https://www.swissproductsusa.com/product-page/p11-diopter
Yes, your mount and diopter are sitting in my cart waiting for a decision...
I agree with the above cereal guy...something about sticking target turret glass on a 1916 produced gun is not sitting well with me. I’ve done a bit of searching on diopter sights (I have zero experience beyond the Williams sight on my Winchester) but have concern on the compatibility with my 56yr old WalMart cheater glasses wearing eyes.... I WANT the diopter to work, but “want” and “results” are the hang up here...
A question as long as you’re here if you don’t mind. A bit confused looking at the diopter sight options listed. For the G11, do I order the “P11” sight? If so, I’m reading that the 1.5x magnifier is NOT compatible? Is there a way around this? I was hoping to use that lens as a added crutch for my eyes.
Thanks.
I agree with the above cereal guy...something about sticking target turret glass on a 1916 produced gun is not sitting well with me. I’ve done a bit of searching on diopter sights (I have zero experience beyond the Williams sight on my Winchester) but have concern on the compatibility with my 56yr old WalMart cheater glasses wearing eyes.... I WANT the diopter to work, but “want” and “results” are the hang up here...
A question as long as you’re here if you don’t mind. A bit confused looking at the diopter sight options listed. For the G11, do I order the “P11” sight? If so, I’m reading that the 1.5x magnifier is NOT compatible? Is there a way around this? I was hoping to use that lens as a added crutch for my eyes.
Thanks.
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Yes, I think it is now. I'll ask my son on the morning. I thought we had threaded all of the new G11 front sights.
For me, the magnification means nothing, but the real reason I use one is that it clarifies the target very clearly. And the PII is the correct Diopter for the G11 rifle.
Standby:
Very, very interesting indeed!I have yet to toss or recycle GP11 empties.
If I did not invest in [insanely expensive] Norma brass some time ago, I would definitely test the tool.
Because, judging, by .388, RUAG brass is absolutely great.
Did anyone already play with the russianreloads tool for 7.5.ch? How is it?
Good morning. The front sight for the G 11 is threaded on both sides. The shooter side is threaded for the Anschutz adjustable aperture and the target side is threaded for the Eagle eye aperture.
