Berger 6.5 Creedmoor Ammunition Match Grade Lapua Brass ?
- Thread starter 3rd shooter
- Start date
Niles has been around here long enough, he doesn't play that game...
I just stumbled across this thread and thought I could add to it. I bought a few boxes of the 135 Classic Hunter, and a few boxes of the 140 Hybrids for some testing in two of my rifles.
Was a pretty nice day.
76 Degrees
60% RH
DA of 2573
Dewpoint of 64
Barometric was 28.78
I shot the 140s out of a Tikka with a Criterion Pre-Fit that is finished at 26 inches with a PVA Brake.
Velocity averaged 2843 out of 9 shots. SD was 7, ES was 24.
The 135s I shot out of my Nucleus, also a Criterion barrel at 26" but with a Rugged Surge on the end.
Velocity averaged 2818 out of 10 shots. SD was 19 and ES was 68. I did have one round that flew at 2765 which was much lower than the rest. If you remove this round, the average was 2824, SD of 5 and ES of 15. Groups were both easily sub MOA.
Was a pretty nice day.
76 Degrees
60% RH
DA of 2573
Dewpoint of 64
Barometric was 28.78
I shot the 140s out of a Tikka with a Criterion Pre-Fit that is finished at 26 inches with a PVA Brake.
Velocity averaged 2843 out of 9 shots. SD was 7, ES was 24.
The 135s I shot out of my Nucleus, also a Criterion barrel at 26" but with a Rugged Surge on the end.
Velocity averaged 2818 out of 10 shots. SD was 19 and ES was 68. I did have one round that flew at 2765 which was much lower than the rest. If you remove this round, the average was 2824, SD of 5 and ES of 15. Groups were both easily sub MOA.
For the record is was 5, 5 with the magnetospeed attached then 12 without, verifying drops from 500-1k and comparing that with my Hornady app, the rest saved for the match that weekend.
Sweetnset up. I'm guessing those re the 140ELDm s? On the 4DOF do you mind sending photos of axial form factor truing screen? Is it anything like the app ?any feedback on that would be greatly appreciatedI shot all 33 at 995 yrds.
I’m shooting the Berger 140 Hybrid factory load. I had to set AFF at 1.05 to get the right drops for 995 yrds.
Oh right on. Can you ou a screen shot of where you manipulate the AFF please. I in no means question your AFF to achieve Impacts at distance I am curious to see what the difference in a standard 5700 Kestrel and 4 DOF look like . I'm trying to use snipers hide members and their resources as an inside look prior to purchasing
I bought a couple cases of the 135 classic hunter to break in my new GAP hunting rifle. First six shots ended up like this. First 3 shot group on the right, second group on the left. 100 yards. Chrono’d 2720, my barrel is a 20” Bartlein #3 8 twist with Ultra7 6.5 on the end.
You can type it in on the 4dof web app and export it to excel.
Also, all I can say is that I don't see any of the issues of BC needing to change at different distances or varying slightly to true to a range. 4DOF with a correct 100 yard zero and it goes out to distance on every range I've been too. Only issue with 4DOF is i wish it had a scope calibration field instead of changing the drop and wind at once.
Shots 16-20 from a brand new PVA 18” Medium Palma 1:8 barrel with 135gr Classic Hunter @ 100yd.
As an intermittent, intermediate hobbyist with maybe 200 rounds downrange YTD, saying I’m pleased with this ammo (especially at the price point) is an understatement.
ETA: velocity is shots 21-25 via Magnetospeed V2
As an intermittent, intermediate hobbyist with maybe 200 rounds downrange YTD, saying I’m pleased with this ammo (especially at the price point) is an understatement.
ETA: velocity is shots 21-25 via Magnetospeed V2
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I think he is being intentionally ironic... his SD was crazy good.
Me for one does not want the supply to run out when everybody realizes what a bargain Berger factory ammo is... and people start hoarding agan.
I got 2825 fps average out of a 26” MPA rifle. Fairly close to the number claimed on the box.
Hornady used to print the load recipe on their ammo boxes, and back in 2010 it was Hodgedon H4350, and yes they listed 2710 fps for the 140s. I get 2750 fps from their latest 140 Match ammo, from a 26” barrel. The newer 140 ELMD match ammo is likely loaded with a proprietary blend (they decline to say what they now use, like all of their competitors). A 24” barrel would likely give 2710-2730 fps.
Does anybody know what primers Berger use in their loaded ammo? I heard Lapua bought a primer company as well.
Does anybody know what primers Berger use in their loaded ammo? I
primers in 6.5 are fed 210 or CPI 200
primers in 6.5 are fed 210 or CPI 200
Resurrecting a very old thread:
Shot 2 boxes of the factory Berger ammo, very accurate, so kept the SRP brass, neck turned all 40 cases down to 12.2 thou, then culled out the worst 10. AMP annealer gave a code of 0145. Reloaded this batch 12 times, then started to see neck splits! Mostly FL sized with a Whidden non-bushing die. Sizing button was picked for minimum neck tension (1.3 thou), so not working the brass all that much.
Have never seen Lapua brass develop neck splits. Original Lapua reloading brass (also neck turned to 12.2 thou) gave an AMP code of 0155, much higher than what i saw for the Berger factory ammo. Second batch of factory ammo did better, around 14 reloads so far, no neck splits, still doing well.
I am starting to wonder if the Berger ammo use the same quality Lapua brass as what Lapua sells for reloading purposes... or do they use their ‘seconds’ for ammo?
Shot 2 boxes of the factory Berger ammo, very accurate, so kept the SRP brass, neck turned all 40 cases down to 12.2 thou, then culled out the worst 10. AMP annealer gave a code of 0145. Reloaded this batch 12 times, then started to see neck splits! Mostly FL sized with a Whidden non-bushing die. Sizing button was picked for minimum neck tension (1.3 thou), so not working the brass all that much.
Have never seen Lapua brass develop neck splits. Original Lapua reloading brass (also neck turned to 12.2 thou) gave an AMP code of 0155, much higher than what i saw for the Berger factory ammo. Second batch of factory ammo did better, around 14 reloads so far, no neck splits, still doing well.
I am starting to wonder if the Berger ammo use the same quality Lapua brass as what Lapua sells for reloading purposes... or do they use their ‘seconds’ for ammo?
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Sounds to like the Amp code was what did your brass in. Did you Aztec a split case to see if the code has changed closer to 155?
I’ve never seen factory loaded Lapua brass that wasn’t every bit as good as their empty stuff. Now, that doesn’t mean the Berger stuff is, but I doubt it would be different.
I’ve never seen factory loaded Lapua brass that wasn’t every bit as good as their empty stuff. Now, that doesn’t mean the Berger stuff is, but I doubt it would be different.
Could well be. Yes the AMP code on another intact case from the split neck brass batch was lower, around 0145. Which i think means i was way over annealing the cases?
Probably self-inflicted. So the lesson is: Melt one average weight case from each batch, even if you think it should be the same as the prior batch. Neck thickness was very similar to prior batches, and they were all neck turned to the same value. But brass composition occasionally shifts, even for Lapua. This batch has been dumped. Oh well.
Live and learn i guess!
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My thought as well, but my thicker brass gave 0148/0150 code, then after neck turning (2 thou thinner) it gave 0143/0145... so it seems thin brass gives lower nrs. Is that what you see as well?
Anyway, i need to stop resisting melting one case per batch. I just lost 45 cases worth $1 each. That would have covered 45 batches...
Thinner cases means less material, which requires less heat to anneal. I’m guessing the AMP numbers boil down to “how much heat do we put into each case”.
Aztec mode seems to be measuring the conductivity of the brass, which is affected by heat. There’s more at play than just thickness vs temperature.
Yep, it seems you cannot assume that the code that works on one batch of Lapua SRP brass will be correct for another batch of Lapua brass sent out months later. Even if the necks have identical thickness.
I just hated melting one piece of precious brass every time, and getting almost the same code... so i stopped. That turned out to be a mistake.
If I'm following, it sounds like the mistake came from, "Aztecing" the Berger ammo, getting a lower code, and using it which resulted in underannealing, overworking, and subsequently neck splitting. If you HAD just used the same higher code as before, you probable never would have known.
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