Short and light weight upper for hunting 6.8spc/6.5grend/224valk?

[z7.jled]

Looking for a good option for my kids, the ar 15 platform is so light and a carbine gets so short they are hard to beat for kids, but they 5.56 leaves a little to be desired as a deer round. (It works, but I’d like some more oomph)

I can’t find a 16” up around, anyone built a shorty?

 

[srt-4_uk]

Why not 6.8SPC? I feel like that's exactly where it shines.

 

[z7.jled]

Why not 6.8SPC? I feel like that's exactly where it shines.

Maybe, got 6 or 8 months to figure it out, just thinking a 77g Barnes tsx at 2800 FPS would put a hurting on deer and pigs

 

[ramblr72]

Or why not a short 300 Blackout with some 110g TSX?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

The advantage to the Valkyrie is pushing long high BC bullets out of AR15 mag length. If you’re not shooting the high BC bullets there is really no advantage to it over a 223. It won’t do anything with that 77gr that it wouldn’t do from a 223 or even the factory 70gr offering.

For hunting 300BLK is a far better choice if you want more ass than a 223.

 

[Back Spin]

I’m not sure you can get 2800 with the Barnes round out of a 16” barrel for 224V.

my 20” 224V (Craddock Bartlein) gets 2835 with Federal’s factory 78 TSX load.

 

[z7.jled]

I’m not sure you can get 2800 with the Barnes round out of a 16” barrel for 224V.

my 20” 224V (Craddock Bartlein) gets 2835 with Federal’s factory 78 TSX load.

I’m looking at several angles and I’m not sure how to go. The high speed of this tsx bullets out of the valk vs 223 is significant, the valk pushes them harder and imo and experience, to get a blood trial from a 224 caliber you need a pass through, and it’s impact velocity and hydrostatic shock that makes that round lethal

I am bouncing around the idea of a valk, 6.8 Spc or Grendel. The 300bo is another popular option, I think (not 100% sure though) that valk/spc/Grendel will offer more energy over 223/300bo. Trying to balance a small package and light weight/low recoil and maximum hunting performance out to about 100-150yds as my kids get old enough to hunt.

If they were a bit older (when they get older) a 6mm (243 or Creedmoor) bolt gun will be called for, but right now the oldest’s length of pull is 10” and she Can’t offhand anything very well, so tripods and ar’s seem to be a best fit

 

[TonyTheTiger]

@z7.jled do you handload?

 

[z7.jled]

@z7.jled do you handload?

Yes

 

[RyanScott]

The 78 has a BC almost .08 higher than the 70.

 

[roostercogburn98]

150-200 yards why not a 350 legend?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I’m looking at several angles and I’m not sure how to go. The high speed of this tsx bullets out of the valk vs 223 is significant, the valk pushes them harder and imo and experience, to get a blood trial from a 224 caliber you need a pass through, and it’s impact velocity and hydrostatic shock that makes that round lethal

Not sure where you’re getting the idea that the Valkyrie gives higher velocity than the 223, but it’s wrong. Case capacity is virtually identical.

 

[RyanScott]

It’s about 100 FPS faster with like bullets. About 10% more capacity but depending on the load might be less pressure.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Yes

Then the world is your oyster. You should be able to break 2700fps by a bit with 77's in a 16" 223. If you want a really easy wildcat to split the difference in recoil vs energy between 22/26 caliber then a 6 Grendel or 6x6.8 might be the real sweet spot. But inside 200 yards I'd be looking pretty hard at a 350 Legend. Looks like the easy button short range deer smoker with factory ammo.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

It’s about 100 FPS faster with like bullets. About 10% more capacity but depending on the load might be less pressure.

I had two different Valkyries (20” LMT and 22” Craddock Rock Creek) and I got no more velocity with the same bullets that would fit mag length than I would out of the same barrel with a 223 chamber. In fact some of them were slower than I got with 223. Where Valkyrie shines in the long bullets that you simply can’t load mag length with 223.

 

[Crews]

I’m all about Valkyrie for a cheap target rifle/high BC bullets and all that stuff. When it comes to hunting, there’s still no replacement for a decent amount of displacement. My vote goes to 300blk, 6.8SPC, or 6.5 Grendel in a 16” barrel. JP H2 SCS, adjustable gas block, and turn em’ loose.

 

[z7.jled]

Interesting feedback against the valk

I’ve never built at AR, no tools, no workbench, (a point of shame) but I don’t want to experiment for the first time with my kids hunting rifle

Who makes a Good/reliable 6.8 upper? 16-18”, as light as possible while retaining mlok or keymod to support bipod/tripod use? And a threaded muzzle for a can

 

[C_R_Slacker]

6.8 out of a 16" barrel should be more efficient and give more muzzle energy over 223 or valkyrie. 95 grain barnes do the trick.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

300BLK is your huckleberry. Basically 30-30 in an AR-15 if you will. Lots more uppers to choose from than 6.8 and lots more ammo and brass to choose from.

 

[346ci]

+1 on 6.8, my 12.5" lays the smack down on deer. Some more velocity would be nice out of a 16". There isn't nothing other than the 6.5g that is going to compare to it out of an AR15.

For the barrel
https://ar15performance.com/inc/sdetail/38010/43897

Blackstone Arms can build you an upper using his barrels

 

[RyanScott]

6.8 is hard to beat for short range shooting. The 90gr gold dot is a screamer.

 

[XLR308]

The 68spc would be my vote as well.
For my youngest sons first hunt he used my 68spc and we killed a few hogs.
Plenty of energy there for putting animals down, good short barrel performance and tons of ammo options off the shelf that you can actually find if you need them.
And if you reload it's an easy round to load for with many different powders that are actually on the shelf when you go looking for them.

 

[Constructor]

300BLK is your huckleberry. Basically 30-30 in an AR-15 if you will. Lots more uppers to choose from than 6.8 and lots more ammo and brass to choose from.

It's not near a 30-30. With the same weight bullets and same length barrel the 30-30 is 3-400fps faster. Everyone compares a 150gr bullet in a 30-30 to a 110 gr bullet in the 300BO.

 

[Constructor]

6.8 working on hogs-

 

[RyanScott]

It's not near a 30-30. With the same weight bullets and same length barrel the 30-30 is 3-400fps faster. Everyone compares a 150gr bullet in a 30-30 to a 110 gr bullet in the 300BO.

It’s not unfair given the higher impact velocities of the 300BLK beyond 150 yards.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

It's not near a 30-30. With the same weight bullets and same length barrel the 30-30 is 3-400fps faster. Everyone compares a 150gr bullet in a 30-30 to a 110 gr bullet in the 300BO.

Smack a deer with a good expanding 110gr bullet from a 300BLK or a good expanding 150gr bullet from a 30-30 at the same velocity and it will never know the difference. Both will have the impact velocity to expand the bullet (given proper bullet selection and range), both will have the energy to fully penetrate, and both will leave a .308 + expanded width wound cavity.

So yes, for the intent and purpose of deer hunting a 300BLK is a 30-30 in an AR15.

 

[XLR308]

Smack a deer with a good expanding 110gr bullet from a 300BLK or a good expanding 150gr bullet from a 30-30 at the same velocity and it will never know the difference. Both will have the impact velocity to expand the bullet (given proper bullet selection and range), both will have the energy to fully penetrate, and both will leave a .308 + expanded width wound cavity.

So yes, for the intent and purpose of deer hunting a 300BLK is a 30-30 in an AR15.

I allways considered the 30 HERRET the AR-15 equivalent of the 30-30 win.
But like you said choose your shots wisely and put them were they count.

Not shitting on the 300BO but a friend I'm going on a hunting trip with in January told me two in their normal hunting group on this trip including himself have shot big hogs with them and they just trotted off and were never recovered.
Just something for the OP to consider if big hogs are on the agenda take something with a little more zip and punch.

 

[346ci]

Other than yotes or other pests I care not to recover, no way I'd run the 300bo for hunting. Much better choices out there for taking game.

 

[Constructor]

Smack a deer with a good expanding 110gr bullet from a 300BLK or a good expanding 150gr bullet from a 30-30 at the same velocity and it will never know the difference. Both will have the impact velocity to expand the bullet (given proper bullet selection and range), both will have the energy to fully penetrate, and both will leave a .308 + expanded width wound cavity.

So yes, for the intent and purpose of deer hunting a 300BLK is a 30-30 in an AR15.

A 300 win mag is about 400fps faster than a 30-30 so is a 30-30 like a 300 win mag? same thing right?

 

[z7.jled]

From a little research and this thread here, and a thread on another forum it seems like I wouldn’t regret a 6.8 spc, 120 grn sst at 2500fps at the muzzle and light barns bullets even faster I’d say it will do the job I foresee. The reason to not stick with 223 that I already have is the lack of a pass through that occasionally happens even when broadside, small bullets going real fast so weird things

 

[Constructor]

I allways considered the 30 HERRET the AR-15 equivalent of the 30-30 win.
But like you said choose your shots wisely and put them were they count.

Not shitting on the 300BO but a friend I'm going on a hunting trip with in January told me two in their normal hunting group on this trip including himself have shot big hogs with them and they just trotted off and were never recovered.
Just something for the OP to consider if big hogs are on the agenda take something with a little more zip and punch.

The 30 Herrett/HRT/Tac 30 will shoot a 130gr MK319 at 2600 out of a 16" barrel and some are pushing the 125MKZ to near 2800 out of a 18". 110s will hit 2800 out of a 16" or apx 400fps faster than a 300BO. 149gr fmj to around 2440 out of a 16". It would be close to a 30-30 if using the same weight bullets and same length barrel for a fair comparison.

 

[RyanScott]

You people think too much. It’s a deer. Hit them right and they will die

 

[XLR308]

The 30 Herrett/HRT/Tac 30 will shoot a 130gr MK319 at 2600 out of a 16" barrel and some are pushing the 120MKX to near 2800 out of a 18". 110s will hit 2800 out of a 16" or apx 400fps faster than a 300BO. It would be close to a 30-30 if using the same weight bullets and same length barrel.

That's moving right along, reminds me a bit of the little 30BR.

 

[XLR308]

You people think too much. It’s a deer. Hit them right and they will die

You didn't hear it from me but I may have personal knowledge of a nice Hill Country 10 point killed with a 22lr and CCI stinger shot through the lungs that didn't walk three steps before dropping dead. ?

 

[RyanScott]

My dad and his brothers were raised on fresh venison all year round.

 

[z7.jled]

You people think too much. It’s a deer. Hit them right and they will die

I know they die, a 223 rem is lethal on deer and pigs, no doubt. But when you shoot one and the bullet liquifies the vitals but doesn’t exit the deer and the deer runs 100yds through a thicket or over the next ridge, a larger hole and an exit would are really nice to help with a blood trail. I’ve killed a few critters, I’ve seen a few get shot as well, I’ve never seen a chest shot from a 5.56 drop one in its tracks, they usually run a little, I’m looking for a blood trail

 

[RyanScott]

Smallest I’ve used was 30 Soviet. It worked. But where I hunt the deer are large and the leaves are all down. Easy tracking.

 

[Constructor]

I know they die, a 223 rem is lethal on deer and pigs, no doubt. But when you shoot one and the bullet liquifies the vitals but doesn’t exit the deer and the deer runs 100yds through a thicket or over the next ridge, a larger hole and an exit would are really nice to help with a blood trail. I’ve killed a few critters, I’ve seen a few get shot as well, I’ve never seen a chest shot from a 5.56 drop one in its tracks, they usually run a little, I’m looking for a blood trail

Exactly, pick the right tool for the job and make the job easier. Some choose the wrong tool then they say they have bad luck when their shit runs off.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

A 300 win mag is about 400fps faster than a 30-30 so is a 30-30 like a 300 win mag? same thing right?

For the purpose of killing deer 300 yards and in, absolutely.

 

[RyanScott]

Charlie Sisk pointed out that you can’t kill anything with a 300 weather by that you can’t kill with a 308, you can do it farther, that’s all.

 

[Constructor]

Is Charlie Sisk the guy everyone followed over here from barfcom?

 

[buckshotbarlow]

Constructor has the tac6 stuff, you cannot overlook it for deer...It's gonna be my gun this year...22" barrel on a 95gr smk! Deer meat in the freezer without a problem. I shot the 75gr vmax's on pdogs, worked ok. But anything based off of the grendel or 6.8 case in a 18" barrel will be fine.

 

[Constructor]

Constructor has the tac6 stuff, you cannot overlook it for deer...It's gonna be my gun this year...22" barrel on a 95gr smk! Deer meat in the freezer without a problem. I shot the 75gr vmax's on pdogs, worked ok. But anything based off of the grendel or 6.8 case in a 18" barrel will be fine.

Nice versatile round but wildcats are best left to experienced reloaders who know exactly how to work up loads.

 

[RyanScott]

Is Charlie Sisk the guy everyone followed over here from barfcom?

I doubt it. He’s a well regarded builder of hunting rifles.

 

[LeadZeke]

12.5in 6.8SPC is what you want. Building the AR is also what you want. If you don't want to build yourself, MSTN puts together some seriously kick-ass lightweight rifles. I'd recommend the V7 lithium alloy parts + smoke composites carbon fiber furniture. Can get sub 5lbs pretty easily like that.

 

[buckshotbarlow]

12.5in 6.8SPC is what you want. Building the AR is also what you want. If you don't want to build yourself, MSTN puts together some seriously kick-ass lightweight rifles. I'd recommend the V7 lithium alloy parts + smoke composites carbon fiber furniture. Can get sub 5lbs pretty easily like that.

i would stay with a legal barrel though for your state...12.5" could get you into some hot water with a warden if it is against the books... always make sure your mags are capped to the local limits also...

 

[z7.jled]

12.5in 6.8SPC is what you want. Building the AR is also what you want. If you don't want to build yourself, MSTN puts together some seriously kick-ass lightweight rifles. I'd recommend the V7 lithium alloy parts + smoke composites carbon fiber furniture. Can get sub 5lbs pretty easily like that.

While an SBR or an AR pistol would make a sick short and light gun, I’m gonna stick to 16”, a pencil barrel and the right hand guard make it pretty handy.

 

[packratt]

Another thing to consider is what regulations allow. In some states .223/.224 is too small of a bullet.

 

[RyanScott]

You can hunt deer with 22 center fire in 40 states.

 

[bullseye13]

I love my 16" grendel. Its handy, puts an ass whoopin on deer and coyotes. 300blk and 6.8 are great as well. I Went with the grendel because of all the 6.5 bullets I already have. The hornady custom 123sst have been fine for the ranges I've used, and wolf 100gr FMJ for 20-30 cents a round give me more time behind the rifle.