Starting out
- Thread starter ejennings
- Start date
Hi,
I would not really be concerned about "upgrading" yet because per your post..you do not really have enough experience on the trigger to determine what and how you want to upgrade it.
Shoot the barrel off it as it sits and you will learn what you do/do not like about every part of it so you know what you do/do not want in an upgraded part.
Sincerely,
Theis
I would not really be concerned about "upgrading" yet because per your post..you do not really have enough experience on the trigger to determine what and how you want to upgrade it.
Shoot the barrel off it as it sits and you will learn what you do/do not like about every part of it so you know what you do/do not want in an upgraded part.
Sincerely,
Theis
Just shoot. Get a good scope that you can put on your next, better rifle. Maybe get a good shooting bag or two that help you make a good shooting position.
Spend money on good ammo that actually lets you see if you made the shot right, not junk that has you wondering if you know what you are doing at all.
Spend money on good ammo that actually lets you see if you made the shot right, not junk that has you wondering if you know what you are doing at all.
dont worry about upgrading it right away. shoot it as much as you can afford with good match ammo such as hornady match. if you dont yet have a scope for it then go to the for sale section here and spend as much as you can afford on the best glass you can afford. get a quality base and rings for it also, dont cheap out on rings. Seekins are good for the money. If you dont yet have a bipod for it then go to the accessories for sale section and get a used bipod or order a (from cheapest to most expensive) harris, atlas, thunderbeast, elite iron. then grab a rear bag from the for sale section or order one from tab gear, or fill a sock with sand and tie it off.
if you really want to upgrade it then drop it into a KRG bravo.
if you really want to upgrade it then drop it into a KRG bravo.
Shoot first. Buy a good scope which can be transferred to another rifle. Try OTHER PEOPLES rifles to check out things that might interest you, it's a lot cheaper than buying untested from internet recommendations and finding it doesn't suit you.
I’ve shot probably 30 or 40 rounds through it and I know the trigger is heavier than I’d like it to be and I think the scope is messed up too because I couldn’t get it zeroed, then I got my dad to try it and he couldn’t get it zeroed either. Everything on it is factory right now, including the scope
Best advice I can give (and to back up what some others have said):
Quality Optic:
Nightforce or Leupold
Quality Rings:
Badger
Ammo:
See what match factory your system likes the most then buy a metric fuck ton of it.
Harris (HBRMS) Bipod (6-9” model)
Rear bag/Sand Sock (dont over think these, either make one with poly fill beads or grab something like a solo sack).
Properly mount your scope (there are thousands of resources out there about this) and make sure it tracks.
Invest in a quality/reputable training course. This is a good way to not only solidify your fundamentals but also see and try other gear.
Quality Optic:
Nightforce or Leupold
Quality Rings:
Badger
Ammo:
See what match factory your system likes the most then buy a metric fuck ton of it.
Harris (HBRMS) Bipod (6-9” model)
Rear bag/Sand Sock (dont over think these, either make one with poly fill beads or grab something like a solo sack).
Properly mount your scope (there are thousands of resources out there about this) and make sure it tracks.
Invest in a quality/reputable training course. This is a good way to not only solidify your fundamentals but also see and try other gear.
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What scope? How can you not get it zeroed? Is it randomly shifting leading you to chasing it or do you simply run out of adjustment? If the later, have you released the zero stop to make sure you arent "bottoming out" prematurely?
Take it all apart and put it back together ensuring everything is straight and flush.
Sorry for how vague this has been. It’s a Weaver 3-9x40 scope. The scope just doesn’t seem to adjust consistently. We’ll put 3 or 4 rounds though for each time we adjust. It started by shooting about 2 foot to the right at 100 yards when first started sighting it in. I couldn’t get it to act right so I let my dad try since he has more experience than I do at shooting. He tried for a while and he said each time he’d adjust the scope it didn’t seem to move any. He put a few rounds through and then it started hitting about a foot high even though he had just been adjusting left and right.
Sounds about like I expect a cheap scope thats included with a rifle to act.
Get something better before you waste time pulling any more hair out.
Call camerlandny and see what they can do on an athlon talos btr with a snipers hide discount. Thats my sub $300 scope recommendation.
Another would be the swfa ss 10 or 12x, its even cheaper used. Its a fixed power scope but its got dependable tracking so that you arent chasing what the scope is actually doing like you are now.
Dont dump money into upgrading a savage axis. Just shoot until you dont like it anymore.
Get something better before you waste time pulling any more hair out.
Call camerlandny and see what they can do on an athlon talos btr with a snipers hide discount. Thats my sub $300 scope recommendation.
Another would be the swfa ss 10 or 12x, its even cheaper used. Its a fixed power scope but its got dependable tracking so that you arent chasing what the scope is actually doing like you are now.
Dont dump money into upgrading a savage axis. Just shoot until you dont like it anymore.
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First, scopes that come with package deals are typically the cheapest, lowest quality that you can find. Having said that..............
Without knowing the actual shooting abilities of the two of you, the fact that neither of you could get the rifle zeroed is not necessarily an indication that the scope is broken/crap.
Most noobs/hunters/casual shooters who come here and think they know even the basics, don't. My observations of, and conversations with, various people at shooting ranges validates my point.
Just being brutally honest.
You gotta upgrade that scope before you waste any more ammunition.
What budget do you have available? How will you use the scope? What ranges? There are several "sticky" links in the Snipers Hide Rifle Scopes forum; start with this one.
When you ask for recommendations, you're going to get a huge pile of "information" to consider - and the problem is you don't have a background to allow you to filter Good Info from bullstuffing. Most of what you get here is Good Info, but there is plenty of garbage too.
I use Vortex scopes because they work and because I bought a used one locally for my son which had a severe flaw not obvious in the store. Vortex sent me a brand new one the next day - they told me straight out that their forever warranty is just that, and it doesn't matter if it was bought used.
I bought three Vortex scopes totaling almost $2000 before I learned what others here say to beginners: read, Read, READ the information here. A lot of what you'll see is "buy once, cry once." There's truth in it, but your journey will offer multiple paths with different needs. For example, I started rifle with a used Designated Marksman AR-15 variant. I put a Vortex Strike Eagle on it, which is totally appropriate for close-in (under 200 yards, 400 yards at a stretch) carbine pursuits. I wanted more range - the rifle was capable of it with match ammo - so I upgraded to a first-gen Vortex of some flavor, I think it was 2.5-10 power. Still not enough, and it was second focal plane (I'm not getting into that here - you need to learn what this means, and it's very very likely you'll need to go with first focal plane). By that point I learned that I wanted more than an AR platform in .223 could deliver. So I sold the whole rig and bought a Tikka T3X TAC A1 in 6.5CM and put a gen-1 Vortex Razor 5-20x50 in Vortex PMR / Seekins (Seekins makes the Vortex rings) rings on it. This rig served me well for a year and a half. I had an opportunity to buy a custom rifle from a friend at an excellent price, so I sold the Tikka for only a couple hundred dollars less than I paid for it (taking barrel life into consideration). I got an excellent deal on a Gen-2 Vortex Razor 4.5-27x56 scope about the same time. The old Razor was put on my .223 Tikka Varmint in an MDT chassis. I have no need to upgrade to any of the more expensive scopes for my centerfire rifles.
I have a Vortex Viper PST 5-25x50 on my Vudoo .22. That scope is also popular for centerfire rifles.
Now, you will likely read some BS here that Vortex scopes break. Uh, sure. Some will break. Toyota Camrys are one of the most boringly reliable cars you can buy, but some of them break. When you sell a cubic crap ton of anything man-made, there will be the occasional problem.
I recommend Vortex because those scopes worked and continue to work for me.
I have also used a couple of Athlon scopes (Argos BTR and Midas TAC) on a couple of friend's/family's .22s. If I hadn't already acquired all the scopes I need, I would definitely consider Athlon at the lower price points. You owe it to yourself to check out CameralandNY's web site - they are a Snipers Hide sponsor ad @gr8fuldoug pays attention to goings-on here - and CALL Doug on the phone to discuss your needs and budget.
Good luck.
EDIT: It's been mentioned, but to reiterate: Do not put a decent scope in cheap rings. That's like buying a Corvette and putting cheap tires on it and expecting Corvette performance out of it. Also, good equipment is easy to resell if you decide not to pursue this sport. I sold my Tikka TAC A1 in one day with multiple offers made on it.
What budget do you have available? How will you use the scope? What ranges? There are several "sticky" links in the Snipers Hide Rifle Scopes forum; start with this one.
When you ask for recommendations, you're going to get a huge pile of "information" to consider - and the problem is you don't have a background to allow you to filter Good Info from bullstuffing. Most of what you get here is Good Info, but there is plenty of garbage too.
I use Vortex scopes because they work and because I bought a used one locally for my son which had a severe flaw not obvious in the store. Vortex sent me a brand new one the next day - they told me straight out that their forever warranty is just that, and it doesn't matter if it was bought used.
I bought three Vortex scopes totaling almost $2000 before I learned what others here say to beginners: read, Read, READ the information here. A lot of what you'll see is "buy once, cry once." There's truth in it, but your journey will offer multiple paths with different needs. For example, I started rifle with a used Designated Marksman AR-15 variant. I put a Vortex Strike Eagle on it, which is totally appropriate for close-in (under 200 yards, 400 yards at a stretch) carbine pursuits. I wanted more range - the rifle was capable of it with match ammo - so I upgraded to a first-gen Vortex of some flavor, I think it was 2.5-10 power. Still not enough, and it was second focal plane (I'm not getting into that here - you need to learn what this means, and it's very very likely you'll need to go with first focal plane). By that point I learned that I wanted more than an AR platform in .223 could deliver. So I sold the whole rig and bought a Tikka T3X TAC A1 in 6.5CM and put a gen-1 Vortex Razor 5-20x50 in Vortex PMR / Seekins (Seekins makes the Vortex rings) rings on it. This rig served me well for a year and a half. I had an opportunity to buy a custom rifle from a friend at an excellent price, so I sold the Tikka for only a couple hundred dollars less than I paid for it (taking barrel life into consideration). I got an excellent deal on a Gen-2 Vortex Razor 4.5-27x56 scope about the same time. The old Razor was put on my .223 Tikka Varmint in an MDT chassis. I have no need to upgrade to any of the more expensive scopes for my centerfire rifles.
I have a Vortex Viper PST 5-25x50 on my Vudoo .22. That scope is also popular for centerfire rifles.
Now, you will likely read some BS here that Vortex scopes break. Uh, sure. Some will break. Toyota Camrys are one of the most boringly reliable cars you can buy, but some of them break. When you sell a cubic crap ton of anything man-made, there will be the occasional problem.
I recommend Vortex because those scopes worked and continue to work for me.
I have also used a couple of Athlon scopes (Argos BTR and Midas TAC) on a couple of friend's/family's .22s. If I hadn't already acquired all the scopes I need, I would definitely consider Athlon at the lower price points. You owe it to yourself to check out CameralandNY's web site - they are a Snipers Hide sponsor ad @gr8fuldoug pays attention to goings-on here - and CALL Doug on the phone to discuss your needs and budget.
Good luck.
EDIT: It's been mentioned, but to reiterate: Do not put a decent scope in cheap rings. That's like buying a Corvette and putting cheap tires on it and expecting Corvette performance out of it. Also, good equipment is easy to resell if you decide not to pursue this sport. I sold my Tikka TAC A1 in one day with multiple offers made on it.
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Spend $15 and sign up for the Snipers Hide training section. Sort by date created, and go through the videos.
Re: scope, yes it is worth upgrading the scope, but I mean it should be able to zero. Cheap scopes usually mean poor quality optics, not accurate tracking, not great max elevation/windage adjustment, but I mean if it's rated for centerfire and you properly torqued the rings down correctly when mounting it, it should hold up. It's not like you're shooting 300winmag or 338 lapua. The 6.5cm shouldn't be that bad.
Usually when scopes are moving all over the place it means the rings weren't torqued down correctly.
Either way, I'd pay the $15 and start the training. Then shoot some rounds. Just shooting 300 rounds down range without any guidance on proper form and technique is also a waste of money too. I love a 1lb trigger, but I can shoot my 4lb trigger just fine too.
Re: scope, yes it is worth upgrading the scope, but I mean it should be able to zero. Cheap scopes usually mean poor quality optics, not accurate tracking, not great max elevation/windage adjustment, but I mean if it's rated for centerfire and you properly torqued the rings down correctly when mounting it, it should hold up. It's not like you're shooting 300winmag or 338 lapua. The 6.5cm shouldn't be that bad.
Usually when scopes are moving all over the place it means the rings weren't torqued down correctly.
Either way, I'd pay the $15 and start the training. Then shoot some rounds. Just shooting 300 rounds down range without any guidance on proper form and technique is also a waste of money too. I love a 1lb trigger, but I can shoot my 4lb trigger just fine too.
You can do a trigger mod to the axis if it's not the accutrigger model.
If that barrel is a thin sporter long strings of shots will change point
Of impact when heated up.
Get an swfa 10 or 12x and get a couple of different kinds a good ammo
And find out what shoots best. And then shoot, if you enjoy shooting
You will upgrade before long anyway.
I would suggest some type of front rest over a bipod for new shooters
And get a rear bag or make a beanbag or wadd up a towel.
If that barrel is a thin sporter long strings of shots will change point
Of impact when heated up.
Get an swfa 10 or 12x and get a couple of different kinds a good ammo
And find out what shoots best. And then shoot, if you enjoy shooting
You will upgrade before long anyway.
I would suggest some type of front rest over a bipod for new shooters
And get a rear bag or make a beanbag or wadd up a towel.
Don't turn this one into a project as far as dumping money into it, cut your losses now! Live and learn. It won't be worth much less after you've put a couple hundred rounds downrange than it's worth now.
Look no farther than Reub's post, that's money well spent, and without a doubt an excellent value, as well as a great foundation for upgrades later on.
If you got the Midas TAC it would be years until you needed an upgrade, if ever. But that Talos BTR 4-14x44 that Spife mentioned is a very versatile inexpensive FFP scope with a great reticle in it that many much more expensive scopes fall short in regards to.
I also just purchased the Savage Axis in the 6.5 creedmoor a few weeks ago. I put a 4x12x44 Vortex Crossfire Scope on it. Being who I am I used some Wheeler products to mount the scope. After "breaking in the barrel " at 25 yards using Hornady Precision Hunter ammo. No need to shoot that much farther than that for the procedure. My last 3 shot group pretty much touched. So factory rifle and factory ammo I am satisfied with the rifle. Groups may open up some at longer ranges, which I will be testing soon. It's going to be used for deer hunting so it is good enough for me.
Attachments
Just throw an Athlon Talos on it in some Vortex rings and a Harris bipod be done with it. That’s as far as I would go with this rifle. At best it will be a hunting rig. The stock us severely lacking in the Savage and it’s just not worth it to go down the road of restocking it because you still have a light profile barrel that’s not suited to the task. (Remember 1moa at 100 doesn’t mean the same gun can shoot 1moa at 600. It will likely never be a long range shooter. From there spend your money on ammo and spend your time learning on paper on the 100 and 200 yard range. By the time you start trying to stretch this gun out a bit you’ll have learned enough that you’ll be looking for another gun and will either be over it or will have outgrown the Savage.
If you are still into it, You can get into a Bergara B14 HMR for a grand and likely end up with a 1/2 MOA Shooter using that same Athlon scope and rings to get you started on that journey. But unlike the Savage, you can actually stretch the Bergara out and know you have the platform to do it. From there it’s all on you if you are not getting the accuracy you want.
The Savage if it’s set up properly will get you going enough to tell you if you want to continue down the rabbit hole. Just be aware that it comes at a price.
If you are still into it, You can get into a Bergara B14 HMR for a grand and likely end up with a 1/2 MOA Shooter using that same Athlon scope and rings to get you started on that journey. But unlike the Savage, you can actually stretch the Bergara out and know you have the platform to do it. From there it’s all on you if you are not getting the accuracy you want.
The Savage if it’s set up properly will get you going enough to tell you if you want to continue down the rabbit hole. Just be aware that it comes at a price.
PM me your info I'll send you a Tac Ops Stock Pack for the rear of your rifle free of charge...
What color would you like ? Black , OD or MC ?
Mike R.
I think I might just message Mike and ask for some stuff since and claim he offered it since he’s giving out so much if it these days.
Is the Axis an Axis II model? Does it have the plastic stock or the wooden one? Did it come with a factory scope and mounts? Was it previously owned? How long has it been since it left the factory?
I experienced the very same zeroing issues with my own Axis II 30-06 Long action, but the action length is not the issue.
The scope mounting was faulty, and this was a design flaw at the time. The Kaspa scope was also very cheap quality and could have been a factor as well. No matter how I tried to adjust it, no zeroing effort was a success. I was ready to throw in the towel and sell it; but is decided to get down to basics and fix the problem outright because it grated against my character to just dump a problem on someone else. Another might have just sold it to someone unsuspecting and been done with it; and I wonder whether that's what happened to you.
First off, don't be getting angry at anyone; it was a very common problem back about a decade ago, and is not so unusual with lowest-price-point rifles. You get what you pay for. Nobody was expecting something as basic as a design flaw and it went undiagnosed by most people.
Next, don't go off the deep end puzzling out what to do about it. The mounts could use an upgrade no matter what else is going on, and dropping big bucks on a minimalist rifle is poor economics. Lower grade mounts and rings will not compete with the top tier stuff, but they will resolve a faulty design issue.
Here's what I did, and I am probably Cheapskate Number One here on The 'Hide.
I started with a decent but affordable scope base. Then, some inexpensive rings from a respected producer. These are not the items I used, but they are in the same category. The base provides a mounting slope of 20MOA, which is suitable for the 6.5 Creedmore. Remove the scope and base(s?) that came with the rifle (I'm assuming it is a 40-44mm objective and a 1" tube). Reinstall the scope with the items I've suggested, following the instructions included with the new parts. They usually provide the proper wrenches and fasteners. Install things quite tight, but don't go Gorilla on the screws (I.e., don't strip the screws). When you tighten down the scope ring caps, give a care to getting the cross hairs relatively level and the scope about as far forward in the rings as you can while still having the scope tube fitting neatly into the rings. If you put the eye to the scope while holding the rifle properly and the picture looks dark around the edges, the scope is too far forward.
No matter what else you do, getting a functional base and rings onto the rifle is essential. Getting the rifle functional comes first; perfection comes later. With the expected luck, this should solve the zeroing problem.
I know this sort of 'gunsmithing' may seem daunting at first, but it's really not all that hard to do. I'm also making a number of assumptions about you and your gear, but I'm erring on the side of keeping it simple while still getting the improvement we seek. There's also a lot of excellent advice in the posts above as well. I just think it's best to keep it simple, affordable, and basic at the very beginning.
Give the rifle a try at zeroing again.
If still no joy, the scope becomes the next thing to address. This being your first personally owned rifle, I assume the only scope you own is the one that came on it, and at this point, it could also be a part of the problem. Still keeping this simple and inexpensive, it's time to shop for a scope.
It's decision time. Is this rifle going to be a larger game hunter, or will varmints and target shooting be the main objective? Two choices, Bigger Game, or Varmint. Note that the 3-9 scope mentioned here already comes with rings. These are low tier items, but they work well enough. I actually shot 1000yd F Open competition with the Varmint scope for a couple of years. It got me on the target and kept me there just fine over all that time. Simply replace the existing scope with the new one just the same as above.
As first rifles go, this about as much as you really want to be doing right now. If things aren't working perfectly; get some local help from an experienced shooter. Have them go over the scope mounting, setting anything right that's off kilter; then spend your time on practice, and your money on some decent, but not exquisite, ammunition.
Getting off on the right foot about the marksmanship task is also the right thing to start out with right off the bat. This is a genuine step in the right direction. For what it's worth, Frank Galli is the head Honcho here at Snipers' Hide; and the book is about his life's work.
Greg
I experienced the very same zeroing issues with my own Axis II 30-06 Long action, but the action length is not the issue.
The scope mounting was faulty, and this was a design flaw at the time. The Kaspa scope was also very cheap quality and could have been a factor as well. No matter how I tried to adjust it, no zeroing effort was a success. I was ready to throw in the towel and sell it; but is decided to get down to basics and fix the problem outright because it grated against my character to just dump a problem on someone else. Another might have just sold it to someone unsuspecting and been done with it; and I wonder whether that's what happened to you.
First off, don't be getting angry at anyone; it was a very common problem back about a decade ago, and is not so unusual with lowest-price-point rifles. You get what you pay for. Nobody was expecting something as basic as a design flaw and it went undiagnosed by most people.
Next, don't go off the deep end puzzling out what to do about it. The mounts could use an upgrade no matter what else is going on, and dropping big bucks on a minimalist rifle is poor economics. Lower grade mounts and rings will not compete with the top tier stuff, but they will resolve a faulty design issue.
Here's what I did, and I am probably Cheapskate Number One here on The 'Hide.
I started with a decent but affordable scope base. Then, some inexpensive rings from a respected producer. These are not the items I used, but they are in the same category. The base provides a mounting slope of 20MOA, which is suitable for the 6.5 Creedmore. Remove the scope and base(s?) that came with the rifle (I'm assuming it is a 40-44mm objective and a 1" tube). Reinstall the scope with the items I've suggested, following the instructions included with the new parts. They usually provide the proper wrenches and fasteners. Install things quite tight, but don't go Gorilla on the screws (I.e., don't strip the screws). When you tighten down the scope ring caps, give a care to getting the cross hairs relatively level and the scope about as far forward in the rings as you can while still having the scope tube fitting neatly into the rings. If you put the eye to the scope while holding the rifle properly and the picture looks dark around the edges, the scope is too far forward.
No matter what else you do, getting a functional base and rings onto the rifle is essential. Getting the rifle functional comes first; perfection comes later. With the expected luck, this should solve the zeroing problem.
I know this sort of 'gunsmithing' may seem daunting at first, but it's really not all that hard to do. I'm also making a number of assumptions about you and your gear, but I'm erring on the side of keeping it simple while still getting the improvement we seek. There's also a lot of excellent advice in the posts above as well. I just think it's best to keep it simple, affordable, and basic at the very beginning.
Give the rifle a try at zeroing again.
If still no joy, the scope becomes the next thing to address. This being your first personally owned rifle, I assume the only scope you own is the one that came on it, and at this point, it could also be a part of the problem. Still keeping this simple and inexpensive, it's time to shop for a scope.
It's decision time. Is this rifle going to be a larger game hunter, or will varmints and target shooting be the main objective? Two choices, Bigger Game, or Varmint. Note that the 3-9 scope mentioned here already comes with rings. These are low tier items, but they work well enough. I actually shot 1000yd F Open competition with the Varmint scope for a couple of years. It got me on the target and kept me there just fine over all that time. Simply replace the existing scope with the new one just the same as above.
As first rifles go, this about as much as you really want to be doing right now. If things aren't working perfectly; get some local help from an experienced shooter. Have them go over the scope mounting, setting anything right that's off kilter; then spend your time on practice, and your money on some decent, but not exquisite, ammunition.
Getting off on the right foot about the marksmanship task is also the right thing to start out with right off the bat. This is a genuine step in the right direction. For what it's worth, Frank Galli is the head Honcho here at Snipers' Hide; and the book is about his life's work.
Greg
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me personally id keep it cheap simple and fun giving you loads of time to save up for a really expensive new rifle if you want one . But buy good glass the whole buy buy once cry once really saves money in the long run , take a class or 6 plan a vacation around a class learn shoot enjoy . Good luck to you and what ever you buy may it serve you well .
got to love older post that make there way back around especially when they are 2018 or older I found a site that had a post still circulating 15 years after the person who posted it had past away .but it's good to see his post was still around and circulating .
Why do you think I offered a Free Tac Ops Stock Pack ? LMAO It's all good a few of you guys pm'd me and I'll send some out in a few days
Mike R.
Ah shit, it would have worked?!Why do you think I offered a Free Tac Ops Stock Pack ? LMAO It's all good a few of you guys pm'd me and I'll send some out in a few days
Mike R.
He must be giving it all away since all the products are out of stock on his website lol. They do look pretty sweet though.
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You want one too ? Hurry up and pm me before I change my mind lol I only have OD in stock...
Mike R.
