Just wondering out loud, for best accuracy do you really need a muzzle brake with 6.5 CreedMoor? I've shot my rifle without it, there was some more kick but it wasn't bad. Does a brake help the accuracy? If so, how?
For best accuracy do you really need a muzzle brake?
- Thread starter docohm
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A brake is never going to help accuracy. It will help you stay on target better though as it will reduce some felt recoil.
No, proper fundamentals do.
A muzzle brake just makes mistakes in our fundamentals less punishing.
A muzzle brake just makes mistakes in our fundamentals less punishing.
Don't forget to ask about "what grain" bullet and "what twist" for best accuracy. That way you cover all the noob bases right away
No as mentioned a brake helps recoil. Not accuracy.
A brake can help you stay on target more consistently and this can allow you to call your own shots. Which can be a huge advantage when you don't have a dedicated spotter.
The brake doesn’t do anything until the bullet leaves the barrel so it can’t help with accuracy. What it may do is change your psyche to not anticipate recoil or flinch. Although for me a loud brake makes it harder to not anticipate. I think guys would be much better fundamentally if they’d take the brakes off and learn to shoot without them. For a lot of people recoil management is pretty much a thing of the past with the focus on small calibers and heavy rifles. I roll my eyes every time I see a “recoil management” video on social media that involves a 22lb rifle and a brake.
hahaha... tough crowd.
If the shot recoil bothers you, makes you think twice about pulling the trigger, makes you flinch sometimes, resulting in inconsistent fundamentals, then a muzzle brake to reduce the recoil might help you alleviate the "anticipation" of the shot. In this case, it will probably help make you more accurate with the rifle. But muzzle brake in itself does nothing to help improve accuracy of the rifle.
Shooting without a muzzle brake is a great way to help practice recoil management and highlight faults in your shooting fundamentals.
If the shot recoil bothers you, makes you think twice about pulling the trigger, makes you flinch sometimes, resulting in inconsistent fundamentals, then a muzzle brake to reduce the recoil might help you alleviate the "anticipation" of the shot. In this case, it will probably help make you more accurate with the rifle. But muzzle brake in itself does nothing to help improve accuracy of the rifle.
Shooting without a muzzle brake is a great way to help practice recoil management and highlight faults in your shooting fundamentals.
And don't forget that rifle being a little 6mm also. Something you have to use a mag spacer kit to feed reliably. LOL
Really? Can you quantify this statement or even give an example that you know of where this happened?
It's an artifact of button-rifled, and maybe CHF barrels only. I've never seen it in a cut-rifled barrel.
The two instances I've seen it, personally, was a green-mountain .308 barrel that when threaded 5/8-24 a .305" gauge pin fit into the muzzle. A .301 gauge pin slide about .600" down into the muzzle before a hard stop. The other was a Criterion 6mm barrel that a .237" pin would slide .600-.625" into the muzzle. .238 wouldn't start, .236 went all the way through.
Not all button barrels do it, it's related to stress relief. I've seen tens of Benchmark button barrels threaded and never could get a .001" over bore gauge pin to start.
ETA: I can't say if it affects accuracy or not. Unfortunately the .308 barrel was at 16.25" so I couldn't cut it back and see if it shot better without the bell-- it was a 1.5-2 MOA barrel as it was. The Criterion I conterbored back .350" diameter to behind the threads ~.70" deep, then cut a 90 degree crown inside the counterbore. Everything was dialed in good and the cut looked great, but it did not improve accuracy. Barrel was 1.5 MOA before and after.
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Brakes can and do affect precision, they can also affect BC, as do suppressors. By cleaning the exit gasses off the bullet path, incipient yaw can be altered compared to a bare muzzle. There are a couple of research papers on the phenomenon. Dave Emery at Hornady also noted the BC changes after he acquired the Doppler radar unit and began bullet testing. I'm pretty sure Frank has posted that here somewhere.
We have noted the effect here at Gunsite during XLR classes.
The effect is not great, on the order of 1/4 MOA or less on precision and changing G1 BC values by amounts between .02 - .005
There is also the possible effect on barrel harmonics with a given load changing simply due to the weight of the device.
Does the brake affect accuracy? Different question. The reduction of recoil may help the shooter with proper follow-through and thereby improve that shooters accuracy with that rifle. Considering the bone-crushing recoil of the 6.5 Creedmore, I doubt that it has much of an effect in this case.
We have noted the effect here at Gunsite during XLR classes.
The effect is not great, on the order of 1/4 MOA or less on precision and changing G1 BC values by amounts between .02 - .005
There is also the possible effect on barrel harmonics with a given load changing simply due to the weight of the device.
Does the brake affect accuracy? Different question. The reduction of recoil may help the shooter with proper follow-through and thereby improve that shooters accuracy with that rifle. Considering the bone-crushing recoil of the 6.5 Creedmore, I doubt that it has much of an effect in this case.
You mean like a 6br with a 26" MTU in a Whiskey 3 with all the weights ...and a Razor Gen II on top?
Yeah. Good times. Thats a behemoth compared to my Tikka T3x lite 7mm RemMag 168gr 3000fps load in a Manners MCS LOLLLLL. 8.5 pounds with optic, no brake.
#fundamentals
Hey DOGPILE!
No Brake not necessary. Brakes can help with recoil management and staying on target for spotting impacts.
They also help with pissing off the neighboring shooters. This can be a good or bad thing.
Roughly at 300 Win Mag recoil can become uncomfortable in certain rifles, where a brake can assist for long sessions. As calibers increase beyond that (it pretty loose) a brake is more and more a necessary addon even in heavy target rifles for comfort.
The only reason I have a break on my 308 and 6.5 is because the brake is part of QD mount for supressor and they don't make a FlashHider mount with 5/8-24 threads. (see also point 2 on whether I am being nice or not at the range).
No Brake not necessary. Brakes can help with recoil management and staying on target for spotting impacts.
They also help with pissing off the neighboring shooters. This can be a good or bad thing.
Roughly at 300 Win Mag recoil can become uncomfortable in certain rifles, where a brake can assist for long sessions. As calibers increase beyond that (it pretty loose) a brake is more and more a necessary addon even in heavy target rifles for comfort.
The only reason I have a break on my 308 and 6.5 is because the brake is part of QD mount for supressor and they don't make a FlashHider mount with 5/8-24 threads. (see also point 2 on whether I am being nice or not at the range).
. But please explain, and continue digging a hole....
......
Again whether there is a little or not the question is does it effect accuracy and the answer is no from all the rifles out there with brakes.
I thought you were an asshole at first, but I have come to admire your dry smart ass brutally honest posts.
It's like kimchee, gefilte fish, or balut................an acquired taste
I tell that to people about scotch too, but even seasoned bourbon drinkers think I’m nuts to like scotch. Just picked this up after tasting it at a friend's:
For those that aren’t snobbish purists and just want smooth tasty sippin’ whiskey. Not as nice as a good sherry cask Glenmorangie, worthy worthy of conspicuous consumption.
Sorry for the left turn, Clyde. I don’t have too many doubts about the fact that improperly stressed metal moves when material is removed. We now have two anecdotal accounts of measured changes under a heavy relief cut and barrel threading. I do not dismiss it, though will always appreciate further confirmation in modern precision barrels.
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How does it compare to J Walker Black? Cause that's the only scotch I've had.I tell that to people about scotch too, but even seasoned bourbon drinkers think I’m nuts to like scotch. Just picked this up after tasting it at a friend's:
View attachment 7448678
For those that aren’t snobbish purists and just want smooth tasty sippin’ whiskey. Not as nice as a good sherry cask Glenmorangie, worthy worthy of conspicuous consumption.
Shame on you. Go buy any of the Islay single malts. Talisker, Laphroaig, Lagavulin, Oban, Ardbeg and others. You don't have to get fancy, the 10 yo will do.
Is any of that better than my Seagrams 7 Crown?Shame on you. Go buy any of the Islay single malts. Talisker, Laphroaig, Lagavulin, Oban, Ardbeg and others. You don't have to get fancy, the 10 yo will do.
Wow this is a shit show. Why do a lot of us use brakes? Because even when shooting those little 6mm or even 223’s off a barricade it helps you stay on target or get back on target faster. I shot a 8lb 7 mag without a break when I was younger to but it does not lend itself to the kind of shooting some of us do.
Had a lame-o job with a bunch of millenials, but we started a whiskey club at work. Got the Glenlivet rep to have a tasting of various scotches. Plus we all chipped in and bought various crap every month. Got to taste a $200 scotch. Well I did it, Did not obtain nirvana, but meh.
In true big boi fashion I won the taste contest to ID bourbon, sythetic bourbon, scotch, and some 4th random crap I don't remember (Japanese whiskey I think).
Its like guns, the more I taste em, them more I like em all. Blended, single malt--man there is some good stuff out there. Plus, you don't have to buy that $200 bottle. Monkey Sjoulder is on the list--going through a Ardberg right now. Plus now they have american smoked/peated whiskey. Holy crap, slap my ass and call me charlie I love that stuff. We need like a whole nother thread for this....
In true big boi fashion I won the taste contest to ID bourbon, sythetic bourbon, scotch, and some 4th random crap I don't remember (Japanese whiskey I think).
Its like guns, the more I taste em, them more I like em all. Blended, single malt--man there is some good stuff out there. Plus, you don't have to buy that $200 bottle. Monkey Sjoulder is on the list--going through a Ardberg right now. Plus now they have american smoked/peated whiskey. Holy crap, slap my ass and call me charlie I love that stuff. We need like a whole nother thread for this....
Sad to say, I wouldn't know. Need to try the Seagrams 7. The Islay malts are an aquired taste. Som compare them to chewing on a tarred rope.
Come on. A little "tongue in cheek"...
You use a break because you need to spot a hit or miss, not because you need the precision it provides.
I use a can/supressor when I compete to save my hearing and that of my competitors, but I practice without because I consider recoil management a priority.
A break is to placate your inner vagina.
The Awesomely accurate F class and BR rifles don’t use brakes, just sayin,,,,,
The Awesomely accurate F class and BR rifles don’t use brakes, just sayin,,,,,
No when you want to clear a PRS barricade in under 50 seconds you want to stay on target and be able to run your bolt without moving your head but that’s just one aspect of this sport. I see brakes in ELR also. I don’t run my can because it gives a longer recoil impulse than my Area 419 break.
D
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Don't get me started on brakes. So, you found out it wasn't bad. Even a .300 H&H isn't bad. The combat proven 1903 Springfield didn't have a brake for Krist's sake. PRS is not WWI and II or Korea as well as Vietnam.
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^^^^^^
Notorious muzzle break cheerleader and fanboy.
You mean you don't like 30 lb 6BRs?
Yes, you want as little movement of the rifle as possible. Doesn't matter if its PRS or ELR or what the reasons are.
And in competition you use whatever is allowed and what everyone else is using to get ahead or to keep up.
But if you can handle recoil without aids, you will do even better with. And yes som aids require practice. And some aids work better under certain circumstances.
What it boils down to, for me, is that gear will not make you a better shooter.
I'm a rum and rye whiskey man myself
Royal Navy Pusser's Rum, Royal Navy Pusser's Gunpowder Proof, Mount Gay, Gosling's Black Seal, and Bulleit Rye are all on my recent rotation.
You don't have a fucking clue about what we're talking about here.
None of your drivel has anything to do with the RIFLE'S accuracy and precision.
I shoot over 7000 rounds a year I think I might have a clue I have owned everything from a 300 wsm and 300 win mag to a host of 223. Maybe your offend because you don’t know what the hell your talking about. I shoot my rifles with brakes, suppressors and bare and they group the same. The point of brakes to me is for competition as I was explaining dip shit.
