West Point Cheating

#2
It happens everywhere. Not saying it is right but it isn't like they killed someone either.

Punish them while in school but let them continue their education and hopefully they can pass along the importance of being honest to those under them.
 
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#4
Dolomite_Supafly said:
It happens everywhere. Not saying it is right but it isn't like they killed someone either.

Punish them while in school but let them continue their education and hopefully they can pass along the importance of being honest to those under them.
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^^^^^Justification?
How about..... these are the fucking rules and there's consequences for violation?
 
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#10
EddieNFL said:
They'll complete their obligatory service and move on to careers in politics. Should be more than a few John Kerrys among them.

Anyone check the insides of their service caps?
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all good reference points, and especially your last sentence... THAT individual should have been known from much earlier in his time at WP... and at the point that he was known, sent out the front gate...
 
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#11
If they had been enlisted they would have made an example of them. They are more worried about who their daddy's are then doing the right thing. My dad was an 0-6 that started as an E-1 and if I got cheating would have said throw the book at him he isn't fit to lead. But I have seen the next generation of officers and they are lacking in everything but gender studies.
 
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#14
sirhrmechanic said:
Honor code is honor code. They should have been tossed. Pour encourager les Autres.

Sirhr
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Absolutely. They should have been tossed. I never had a high opinion of Academy grads and this just adds to that. Going thru Infantry Officer Basic Course back at Ft. Benning I had a pair of Pointers assigned to my squad. You couldn't peer out of that course, but peer reviews were done weekly. They were always pissed they were #8 and #9 on the peer reviews each week, and deservedly so. I was fortunate with my squad though. We had the two West Pointers, a NMMI grad, some ROTC grads, and 4 of us were Infantry Mustangs. Hell, two of them were already tabbed and from 2-75 and 3-75 so there was a lot of knowledge in that squad.
 
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#15
I would love to see some good hammers dropped on these cheaters. And there is also something brewing at Canoe U too. If it was 7 caught, they all might have been tossed out. But 70 would put a dent in the officer program. Not sure on the Army side, but when the Navy does their yearly 'health of the community' briefs for each of the different officer designation, they also include recruitment sources to ensure a healthy pool of butter bars to build from. And a Navy OCS class typically starts at 60 candidates. So losing 70 bodies will have to be made up somewhere else.

I read a few Westies have already 'resigned', and a few more will get escorted off the premises. But I'll bet the rest of them will be allowed to go forward, be stuck with shitty assignments, made to do their mandatory pay back time, and then be informed their futures are not looking good and given the option to drop their letter.
 
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#18
I personally hate and despise all cheaters.
But as the saying goes: "A fish rots from the head down." - When an organization or state fails, it is the leadership that is the root cause.
I guess one can make the argument that these cadets learned from their Commander-in-Chief leadership example currently available on display...
 
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#19
sirhrmechanic said:
Honor code is honor code. They should have been tossed. Pour encourager les Autres.

Sirhr
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^^^This.

We had the same honor code when I was at UVA.

I pledge that I will not lie, cheat,or steal. Period.

First violation gets you dismissed from school.

Single Sanction. You were tried and sentenced by your peers.

There was one exam I really wasnt prepared for so I made a crib sheet and stashed it in the bathroom. Went in to read it, thought about it and figured, "No one else will know, but I will." and flushed it down the toilet.

Now the liberals have weakened it to I dont know what.
 
#20
I'd say they need to be booted out. Just having that certificate from one of the academies, by default ensures (on average) a 10% increase in pay over a non-academy grad.

I've worked with ring knockers from all the academies...I have not been impressed. Only one was worth a shit. The rest were either self serving arrogant assholes, or were just entitled, spoiled leaches, living off the ring status and the work of their peers.
 
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#22
.....Frank Slade: I'm not finished! As I came in here, I heard those words...cradle of leadership. Well, when the bough breaks, the cradle will fall. And it has fallen here, it has fallen! Makers of men, creators of leaders, be careful what kind of leaders you're producing here. I don't know if Charlie's silence here today is right or wrong; I'm no judge or jury. But I can tell you this; he won't sell anybody out to buy his future! And that, my friends, is called integrity. That's called courage. Now that's the stuff leaders should be made of.....
 
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#23
unfortunately this is related to the religion in youth thread.
people used to think they would pay for all their sins eventually.
now most believe there is no overwatch.
they don't do whatever is right, they do whatever they think they can get away with.
people like that should never be military leaders. jmo.

/not religious
 
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#24
Ring knockers can be a fucking pain. The good news is they usually self identify and unless they are in your CoC, they are easy enough to avoid. The good Academy grads are the ones who take their rings off and get to work. And some you have to drag out of them where they earned their commission from because they hate being associated with the ring knockers. Sad thing is the Navy will still promote Canoe U grads even to command levels as long as they do not publicly embarrass themselves or the Navy. I just saw a video where a ring knocker is now the XO of a carrier. I have no idea how he graduated from Annapolis and still be the living embodiment of George Costanza.
 
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#25
Same here you cheat your gone.

It was that way at UNT, it's that way in the nuclear industry, it's that way for Professional engineer licensing. Nuclear and PE you get caught cheating your banned for life.

That's bullshit. They should be gone.
 
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#26
Dang, I graduated from a state university, in the late '80s. Man, if you were caught cheating, on anything, you were out! I remember one, or two students who made the mistake of cheating. They were gone, never heard from, again.
 
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#27
Maggot said:
^^^This.

We had the same honor code when I was at UVA.

I pledge that I will not lie, cheat,or steal. Period.

First violation gets you dismissed from school.

Single Sanction. You were tried and sentenced by your peers.

There was one exam I really wasnt prepared for so I made a crib sheet and stashed it in the bathroom. Went in to read it, thought about it and figured, "No one else will know, but I will." and flushed it down the toilet.

Now the liberals have weakened it to I dont know what.
Click to expand...
My junior high school and high school had an honor code in the same vein. Had to write it out or just sign at the bottom of the paper. I don't know what the punishment for it was 'cause I never broke it, but a couple of dipshits were caught cheating on their finals my senior year of high school and the disciplinary staff interrogated every student in that exam room the next day.

In college we never had to sign anything like that but there was an honor code and there were certainly consequences if caught cheating. Again, I don't know what exactly they were 'cause I never broke it. I expect they were listed in the student handbook and individual professors might've had their own addenda to them. Academic probation, having your credit hours docked, being expelled from the course and/or school. Not sure about trial-by-peers but that could've been one too.
 
#28
IrishWind said:
Ring knockers can be a fucking pain. The good news is they usually self identify and unless they are in your CoC, they are easy enough to avoid. The good Academy grads are the ones who take their rings off and get to work. And some you have to drag out of them where they earned their commission from because they hate being associated with the ring knockers. Sad thing is the Navy will still promote Canoe U grads even to command levels as long as they do not publicly embarrass themselves or the Navy. I just saw a video where a ring knocker is now the XO of a carrier. I have no idea how he graduated from Annapolis and still be the living embodiment of George Costanza.
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1608824792913.png
 
#36
oneshot86 said:
100%
PERIOD

if i would have cheated on a test in the NCO Acadamy in 88, i would have been marched out of the main gate and had my stripes ripped off
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Ditto. I attended the SNCO Academy over Thanksgiving (many years ago). One E-8 in the class was stationed in Germany and asked to be released early on Wednesday so he could travel home. Commandant denied his request. He came up with some reason why he couldn't attend afternoon classes and left anyway. When he showed up Monday morning, he was escorted to the Commandant's office and sent back to his unit. Later heard he received an ART 15 and forced to retire.

Back in the 80's, we had a regular rotation to Panama. It was common to send personal items in conexs being shipped back and forth. A MSgt decided he could avoid customs and ship back several cases of the local spirits. Reduced to TSgt, fined and later that year denied re-enlistment. Separated at 16 years. All he had to do was claim it on the customs form. I've brought back all kinds of crap and never had to pay the duty. Agents aren't going to do the paperwork to collect a few bucks.
 
#38
#42
Blutroop said:
Make em go.. enlisted
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I had a guy in my tech school class that got booted from the AF Academy and was serving as enlisted to pay back what he owed Uncle Sam. He wouldn't talk about why or what happened that got him booted out of the Academy. I don't know where he ended up, but he made it through tech school.
 
#43
I'm not defending it, but I do see in a lot of colleges where even faculty will regard some classes as jokes. When your faculty acts this way I can see why some might be more inclined to cheat, especially if your classmates are receiving better marks in this manner. There's also some pretty crappy teachers who just don't care. But if you get caught you should get the hammer as you knew the consequences and the integrity of the institution and fellow students needs to be upheld. It is sad that increasingly students aren't even ashamed of admitting this behavior.
 
#44
Wanna take a guess what happens if you get caught cheating at any of the NCO school houses in the army and I'm sure the Marines are the same way ....

Let's just say there wouldn't be any "rehibilitating".... your ass would be gone and your life would be extremely uncomfortable on the way out with what I would expect would be a push for a dishonorable discharge to follow you around for the rest of your life


But the supposed cream of the crop for officers get rehibilitation... disgusting
 
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#45
Huskydriver said:
Wanna take a guess what happens if you get caught cheating at any of the NCO school houses in the army and I'm sure the Marines are the same way ....

Let's just say there wouldn't be any "rehibilitating".... your ass would be gone and your life would be extremely uncomfortable on the way out with what I would expect would be a push for a dishonorable discharge to follow you around for the rest of your life


But the supposed cream of the crop for officers get rehibilitation... disgusting
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Yes, but NCO schools are populated by individuals who earned their positions with years of sweat, blood and real leadership ability.

Academies, at least these days, seem to be populated by the spawn of important daddies and those who pass litmus tests of Communist Senators and Congressmen.

Oaths are apparently to the Redbook and to Bernie now.

They need to eject every single one of these dishonorable cheaters with extreme prejudice... and if that means busting them to private and sending them to the lowest billet in the biggest craphole in the entire operation area of the USA... then this needs to happen.

EVERY SINGLE ONE of these cheaters needs to be punished to the fullest extent possible.

The next generation of Plebes and Cadets will honor their oaths. Because they will know that cheating will result in three years of burning shitters and polishing boots until their debt to American Taxpayers is paid.

Honor. It is a thing.

SIrhr
 
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#46
sirhrmechanic said:
Yes, but NCO schools are populated by individuals who earned their positions with years of sweat, blood and real leadership ability.

Academies, at least these days, seem to be populated by the spawn of important daddies and those who pass litmus tests of Communist Senators and Congressmen.

Oaths are apparently to the Redbook and to Bernie now.

They need to eject every single one of these dishonorable cheaters with extreme prejudice... and if that means busting them to private and sending them to the lowest billet in the biggest craphole in the entire operation area of the USA... then this needs to happen.

EVERY SINGLE ONE of these cheaters needs to be punished to the fullest extent possible.

The next generation of Plebes and Cadets will honor their oaths. Because they will know that cheating will result in three years of burning shitters and polishing boots until their debt to American Taxpayers is paid.

Honor. It is a thing.

SIrhr
Click to expand...

Polishing boots was so pre 2006....
 
#49
And old thread, but there is a current news update: Eight cadets got expelled, a few resigned, and 51 cheaters are still on track to graduate. Clown world.

One of my best memories from my university days a long time ago was one of my profs announcing just prior to an exam "If I catch anyone cheating I will do everything I can to get you thrown out of the university." Amen.

www.nbcnewyork.com

51 West Point Cadets Caught Cheating Must Repeat a Year

West Point officials say most of the 73 West Point cadets accused in the biggest cheating scandal in decades at the U.S. Military Academy are being required to repeat a year and eight were expelled.
www.nbcnewyork.com www.nbcnewyork.com
 
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