7mm Options in AI AT or SA AICS rifle?

[NoLegs24]

I think the AT-X will be in hands soon, MHSA had 150 of them already. The bolt faces could be months or years out knowing AI. And then like you said, may be hard to find in stock, etc.

MHSA wouldn’t be taking Pre-orders if they had 150 lol.
Frank’s the one that said that in the video, but he was talking about other rifles. Not the AT-X.

Mile High and EuroOponly have 1. Which is the Pre-Prod version as of now I believe.

With it being a non-bonded AT. Hopefully April timeframe will be legit.

COVID has slowed things down in the UK. Thus the delays in the AX50 ELR and AXSR bolt bodies.

 

[verdugo60]

MHSA wouldn’t be taking Pre-orders if they had 150 lol.
Frank’s the one that said that in the video, but he was talking about other rifles. Not the AT-X.

Mile High and EuroOponly have 1. Which is the Pre-Prod version as of now I believe.

With it being a non-bonded AT. Hopefully April timeframe will be legit.

COVID has slowed things down in the UK. Thus the delays in the AX50 ELR and AXSR bolt bodies.

Ah, that makes more sense. Frank spreading disinformation again, lol. I wondered why they had 150 and wouldn’t be shipping until April.

Maybe you can smoke us all in Wyoming again and take home an AT-X off the prize table?

A 7 SAUM AT-X at the NF ELR would be kinda sweet... just hoping my Zermatt/Trigger Tech holds up in that moon dust.

 

[NoLegs24]

Lol. Yeah. Don’t hold your breath on that. It would be cool if they were to rush accessories out. But their main focus will be the AT-X rifles, I bet. Maybe ship the bare rifles before any accessories become available. Who knows.

I will say the 6.5PRC has been running great in the PSR/ AXMC rifles using the 300WM mags. You can sorta make AX/ AW mags work, but you’re stuck with only 6 rounds vs 10. Shoot matches with it, so I rather go with 10. And you’re not limited by mag length if you want to run heavies with a longer freebore.

But it’s a great idea nonetheless to have it on the AT-X platform. Same action so you can use the same bolts on AT & AX. So guys don’t have to move over to the AT-X necessarily

 

[Glassaholic]

For now my two bighorn origins with interchangeable bolt heads and barrels accomplish that better. One is in my backup chassis with 223 AI barrel for practice and the other is my dedicated match gun. It’s always zeroed and I am more confident in it this way. My second chassis is an XLR magnesium and I have a PROOF CF shouldered pre-fit 6.5 CM barrel I can throw on to hunt with or for a handy field rifle under 12 lbs with optic. Advantage of the Zermatt is that the bolt heads are $125 vs $500+ that I imagine the AI will be.

Tell me more about your setup here. You mention interchangeable bolt heads but you have two separate rifles, so are you actually changing bolt head and swapping a barrel (assume you are using a barrel vice/wrench to do so?) on the different chassis' or are you keeping everything as is?

Doesn't AI guarantee something like 1 MOA or less between different barrel swaps? I had my AT out the other day with my new Tangent and wanted to sight in the 308 barrel (normally shoot a SJA 26" 6.5 Creedmoor and AI 20" 308) and was pleasantly surprised that there was no legitimate windage difference between the two, both shot dead center but the 308 with 185 Juggernauts were impacting lower than my 6.5 Creedmoor which was expected.

 

[verdugo60]

So both actions have 308 bolt heads. On my main action in an XLR Envy chassis I have been running my 6GT comp barrel. I also have a 223 bolt head for that one, and a 223 AI barrel that hammers. So 223 barrel for practice, then with a barrel vice, action wrench and torque wrench the day before a match I switch out bolt head, mag and barrel to my 6mm setup and re-zero. The swap takes 10-20 minutes. So I practice with 223 loaded on a progressive press on full progressive style on my actual comp gun saving barrel and 6mm bullet for matches.

Cool thing is that the Zermatt Origin is machined to such tight tolerance I can literally swap shouldered barrels AND bolt heads between the two and they headspace correctly. I just got the second action “twin” so my comp gun will stay 6mm most of the time and I’ll practice with the 223AI in the lighter but similar magnesium chassis with that second action. Since those two calibers are what I shoot the most of I will have both and hardly have to swap barrels and re-zero.

Then when fall and hunting season rolls around the action with the lighter chassis gets a magnum bolt head, short mag magazine and a 7 Saum Carbon Fiber shouldered barrel and I have 7 Rem mag ballistics in a 10 lb rifle that I was shooting all year as a 223. It becomes a 700 yd+ meat stick. I’ll also probably shoot it in the NF ELR in WY, probably in the heavier chassis for recoil mitigation.

So for the price of a kitted out AI AT-X with a ZCO I have two really accurate rifles in chassis with Gen 2 Razors.

I will say barrel changes are easier with the AI system. I had a 6.5 CM and a 6CM barrel with hardly any poi shift on my AT. Some barrels varied more than others.

With AT and Bighorn swaps I have always been on paper swapping between barrels, usually less than 2 inches offset. For jacking around at the range it’s not a big deal but for a hunt or comp I always had to check zero after a barrel swap with the AT anyways.

So I won’t be scrambling to sell and get another AT-X but they really are the easiest barrels to swap out and if budget isn’t an issue and they roll out reliable 223 and wsm/Saum bolt heads it will be a hard system to beat as a do-all rifle.

 

[Glassaholic]

^^^ I appreciate you taking the time to explain this. I waffle back and forth between shoulder'd pre-fits on my Bighorn (I have a TL-2 and think I would need to get a TL-3 or Origin if I want to swap bolts heads) and the AI, except for a range gun that will never travel far from my vehicle, I like my rifles light or at least lighter than the typical AI. Since the AT-X is not bonded it has made me wonder if @tmanners Tom might not figure out a mini chassis for the AT footprint to work with his EH1 and other stocks.

 

[beetroot]

^^^ I appreciate you taking the time to explain this. I waffle back and forth between shoulder'd pre-fits on my Bighorn (I have a TL-2 and think I would need to get a TL-3 or Origin if I want to swap bolts heads) and the AI, except for a range gun that will never travel far from my vehicle, I like my rifles light or at least lighter than the typical AI. Since the AT-X is not bonded it has made me wonder if @tmanners Tom might not figure out a mini chassis for the AT footprint to work with his EH1 and other stocks.

I too have been thinking about the possibility of a Manners or similar stock for a hunting set up.

I appreciate that other actions have quick change barrels but them needing a barrel vice, torque wrench, etc, inevitably means I probably wouldn't use the capability.
The AI needing a single Allen head screw with proven repeatability means I'd actually use the system.
I like the idea of interchangeable bolt heads as a cost saving measure but having separate bolts is a bit more idiot proof.

 

[beetroot]

So both actions have 308 bolt heads. On my main action in an XLR Envy chassis I have been running my 6GT comp barrel. I also have a 223 bolt head for that one, and a 223 AI barrel that hammers. So 223 barrel for practice, then with a barrel vice, action wrench and torque wrench the day before a match I switch out bolt head, mag and barrel to my 6mm setup and re-zero. The swap takes 10-20 minutes. So I practice with 223 loaded on a progressive press on full progressive style on my actual comp gun saving barrel and 6mm bullet for matches.

Cool thing is that the Zermatt Origin is machined to such tight tolerance I can literally swap shouldered barrels AND bolt heads between the two and they headspace correctly. I just got the second action “twin” so my comp gun will stay 6mm most of the time and I’ll practice with the 223AI in the lighter but similar magnesium chassis with that second action. Since those two calibers are what I shoot the most of I will have both and hardly have to swap barrels and re-zero.

Do the shouldered barrels return to the same point of impact like the AI does?
As in would you be happy to change a barrel and shoot it a match without having a chance to re-confirm your zero?

 

[verdugo60]

I have not tested enough on the Origin to confirm repeatable POI shift. It’s usually a few months in between barrel changes and now hopefully even less with two of them. I personally wouldn’t feel comfortable doing it with either system without confirming zero, especially for a big match. Most guys like to confirm zero after flying or traveling in local conditions anyways just because .1-.2 mils can make a big difference in that game.

I remember reading that some AT shooters had gotten their system to be pretty repeatable but they had a very specific procedure for re-installing their barrels. It’s something you would need to test in your specific rifle with each barrel. Off hand i think they were using a torque value a bit higher than the recommended 49 lbs in the set screw plus a specific way of screwing the barrel into the receiver. Do some research there with current AT/AX owners.

With the Origin I just torque to 70 ft lbs with a barrel vice that slides into my trailer hitch. As for swapping bolt heads, it’s not much more complicated than swapping the AI AXMC bolt body out. You can install the head off by 180 degrees but it won’t even go back into the gun that way and it’s pretty obvious when the extractor is on the wrong side.

Again, I’m not really recommending one over the other. AI has the more field expedient system, no doubt. The question is whether you want to pay the premium for the AT-X and wait for the extra parts like 223/wsm mags, bolt heads, premium priced barrels, etc. Everything AI just seems to cost more. Or if you’re ok buying an action wrench and barrel vice and using shouldered pre-fits you can throw an Origin or TL3 together now.

For me the hassle of the barrel vice deal was worth the cost savings and versatility of lighter rifles and swappable bolt heads. With AI doing the bolt heads the decision gets harder.

My suggestion: if you can afford the AI, try it out with the 6.5 CM barrel and maybe a common comp caliber like 6 BR, 6CM etc. If you decide you prefer a custom you can always sell the AI, they hold their value pretty well. Zermatts actually do too but AI probably a little more so. Sounds like the wsm bolts are already in the works, might be a while for the 223 conversion if that matters.

 

[verdugo60]

Keep in mind too the Ai spare bolt assemblies are probably going to run $600-$700 at least and the AT magnum ones will sell like hot cakes.

 

[verdugo60]

I swap barrels on a couple of TL3's. I torque them on but don't use a barrel vise. I have AI style wrench flats cut on the end of the barrel and just use a small $30 torque wrench with a 3/4" crowsfoot to grab the barrel on the wrench flats. I torque them on to 40ft/lbs. I just hold the rifle between my feet and knees and put the wrench in the flats to torque. They all return to zero.

The TL3 really is the king of barrel swapping with an integral lug, and $150 bolt heads in .223, SPC/PPC, 308, and Magnum.

FYI, the AT action without trigger is 2.75lb without a trigger

The TL3’s fixed lug would make that easier for sure but it could probably be done with the origin too. I’m pretty pleased with the system they came up with, pretty awesome value.
I need to start load development on my 7SAUM barrel.