Accuracy Issues New Scope

M

MikeMahogany

Private
Minuteman
Nov 20, 2020
47
7
Saskatchewan
#1
I just purchased a new Vortex Diamondback HD 4-16x42mm scope. I installed the rings, bases and torqued all the screws as per the manufactures guidelines. I levelled the scope with a scope level and bore sighted it. I went to the range today and used the same reloads that I shot with my previous scope which produced the target below. The results today weren't even close, so my question is, how does a rifle using the same ammo, bench rests, outside temp. shoot worse in less than a month?

IMG_0535.jpg​
 
#2
MikeMahogany said:
I just purchased a new Vortex Diamondback HD 4-16x42mm scope. I installed the rings, bases and torqued all the screws as per the manufactures guidelines. I levelled the scope with a scope level and bore sighted it. I went to the range today and used the same reloads that I shot with my previous scope which produced the target below. The results today weren't even close, so my question is, how does a rifle using the same ammo, bench rests, outside temp. shoot worse in less than a month?

Click to expand...
Hi Mike - Just a guess, but did you check the 'optical zero' of the scope b4 you mounted it ? I always do since one I bought was wayyy off like your prob. The new scope wasn't zeroed at the mfr, it was shooting about 2" low at 50. I use a mirror to check that opt-zero (Y-tube vids on this). When I mount the scope, I first level the rifle, with the base, in the rest (I use a vise), then level the lower ring, then mount the scope and level off the vertical turret. Then I bore-sight with a laser at 25. That gets me within an inch or so when I first shoot and adjust zero at 25, then go on to adjust for 50. If you followed this sort of zeroing, then you may have a problem with the scope - it does happen.
Good Luck with your prob,
Ed
 
#3
How bad is “shoot worse”? Are the rings and base also new?

Id start by double checking torque on everything I touched. Make sure nothing is moving.

If everything is torqued and it still doesn’t shoot, take it apart, put it back together, try again.

If it still doesn’t shoot, start methodically changing one variable at a time in order of ease.

Different shooter
Different rings
Different base
Different rifle

If it still doesn’t shoot, call vortex and tell them. I haven’t dealt with them but from everything I hear I imagine they’ll make it right.

Frustrating. Sorry. Good luck.
 
#9
Fasteddie01 said:
Hi Mike - Just a guess, but did you check the 'optical zero' of the scope b4 you mounted it ? I always do since one I bought was wayyy off like your prob. The new scope wasn't zeroed at the mfr, it was shooting about 2" low at 50. I use a mirror to check that opt-zero (Y-tube vids on this). When I mount the scope, I first level the rifle, with the base, in the rest (I use a vise), then level the lower ring, then mount the scope and level off the vertical turret. Then I bore-sight with a laser at 25. That gets me within an inch or so when I first shoot and adjust zero at 25, then go on to adjust for 50. If you followed this sort of zeroing, then you may have a problem with the scope - it does happen.
Good Luck with your prob,
Ed
Click to expand...
Hi Ed,

I watched a video on this and referred to the owners manual as well.

I can tell you the screwdriver that Vortex depicts in the owners manually to loosen the turret screws is false in my opinion unless they’re weren’t tightened very much.

I tried all the flathead screwdriver bits that came with my Wheeler torque wrench and a couple of personal ones. The screws were on so tight I ended up stripping the slot and removing some paint around slots.

On the elevation turret there was a white dot on the base that was easy to see, but the one on the dial was a faded brown or gray and extremely hard to see.

The windage turret was worse given there was no mark on the dial to align with the white dot on the base.

I was so mad I called Vortex and spoke with a representative and relayed my entire story. I sent him 15 picture and a long email. He said he would get back to me this afternoon and I’ve heard nothing.

So far, the Vortex scope and company whom many people claim to be top shelf are not living up to the hype in my opinion.

Thanks for your suggestion, it was a great one.
 
#10
Mike2763 said:
How bad is “shoot worse”? Are the rings and base also new?

Id start by double checking torque on everything I touched. Make sure nothing is moving.

If everything is torqued and it still doesn’t shoot, take it apart, put it back together, try again.

If it still doesn’t shoot, start methodically changing one variable at a time in order of ease.

Different shooter
Different rings
Different base
Different rifle

If it still doesn’t shoot, call vortex and tell them. I haven’t dealt with them but from everything I hear I imagine they’ll make it right.

Frustrating. Sorry. Good luck.
Click to expand...
I should post the target to show you how worse. It was terrible! Vortex wouldn’t appreciate it!

I purchased a new Talley Picatinny rail along with new Leupold PRW2 rings.

Everything was torqued using a Wheeler torque wrench and the manufacture recommended torque settings. When I came home from the range yesterday all the screws still had the correct torque. I then took it all apart amongst a blue cloud of bad language that included Vortex’s name.

This morning I tried resetting the zero and you can read in my reply to Ed how that went.

The weather turned cold today with a oh wind and given I’ve called Vortex, I didn’t go back to the range.

Thank you for your great suggestions.
 
#15
What was the old scope? The diamondbacks are a bit more lower end for their scope lines. While there will be a lot of diamondbacks that work great, there will also be a lot that come from the factory that are ready to break just by putting a few rounds down range. If you can afford better, it will cause less headaches in the end. If not, it's a good thing they have the warranty they do, because you will need it.
 
#16
You have to remember that Vortex has several different lines, diamondback being one of the lower end ones. Their real claim to fame is keeping costs low enough that they can replace scopes that don't meet quality standards (which they are VERY good about). The hype is not necessarily always about quality but the warranty. I'm not trying to bash on Vortex or anything, but its an important distinction between quality control and product replacement.
 
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#17
Yeah the diamondback tactical isnt their top of the line. But also never had any issues with mine. They do have lifetime warranty. I never had use it. But it's there if you need it.

Do you have another scope to use to see if it's the scope/gun.

Doc
 
#18
HMRamateur said:
What was the old scope? The diamondbacks are a bit more lower end for their scope lines. While there will be a lot of diamondbacks that work great, there will also be a lot that come from the factory that are ready to break just by putting a few rounds down range. If you can afford better, it will cause less headaches in the end. If not, it's a good thing they have the warranty they do, because you will need it.
Click to expand...
The old scope was a Nikon Monarch 3 BDC 4-16x42 mm. Thanks for your opinion on where these scopes rate on the quality scale and about upgrading to a higher quality.
 
#19
Xjtony said:
You have to remember that Vortex has several different lines, diamondback being one of the lower end ones. Their real claim to fame is keeping costs low enough that they can replace scopes that don't meet quality standards (which they are VERY good about). The hype is not necessarily always about quality but the warranty. I'm not trying to bash on Vortex or anything, but its an important distinction between quality control and product replacement.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure about the "VERY good about?" I'm shipping this disappointing product back today, but I can tell you, that the grief I've gone through to this point, both on the phone and by email with Vortex hasn't been encouraging. This after sending them an extremely detailed email including 15 photos. One of the representatives I spoke with yesterday stated he'd not seen this much detail in a long time.
 
#20
Doc68 said:
Yeah the diamondback tactical isnt their top of the line. But also never had any issues with mine. They do have lifetime warranty. I never had use it. But it's there if you need it.

Do you have another scope to use to see if it's the scope/gun.

Doc
Click to expand...
I don't have another scope. I sold the one on my rifle and used that money to purchase what was supposed to be a superior scope. Well, I can tell you for certain, based on my day at the range, it isn't.

Service from Vortex so far has not been encouraging!
 
#21
They have a lifetime warranty. They send you an RMA and you ship it to them. They either fix or replace. Send you back fixed/new scope.

Doc
 
#23
@MikeMahogany It sucks you've had issues for sure. I've only sent one personal scope back and didn't have any issues. I use Vortex binoculars at work for emissions testing and they get beat up driving around the desert so we send them back every few years. Hopefully they take care of you and you can either have a decent working scope to use or sell for something else.
 
#24
Xjtony said:
@MikeMahogany It sucks you've had issues for sure. I've only sent one personal scope back and didn't have any issues. I use Vortex binoculars at work for emissions testing and they get beat up driving around the desert so we send them back every few years. Hopefully they take care of you and you can either have a decent working scope to use or sell for something else.
Click to expand...
I sent the scope back today, and to be honest, I’m not holding out a lot of hope.

If they say there’s nothing wrong with it, and send it back, then what?

If they claim to have fixed it, did they?

In both cases what if it still doesn’t group?

Bottom line, my confidence in this scope has been lost and I’m not certain it can be regained.
 
#25
MikeMahogany said:
I sent the scope back today, and to be honest, I’m not holding out a lot of hope.

If they say there’s nothing wrong with it, and send it back, then what?

If they claim to have fixed it, did they?

In both cases what if it still doesn’t group?

Bottom line, my confidence in this scope has been lost and I’m not certain it can be regained.
Click to expand...
Thats the good thing about their warranty. I would have ran it over before I sent it to them
 
#27
I know their manual shows them using a large flat bit but I'm sure those are coin slots for the turrets. Sounds like you used the wrong sized screwdriver for those slots, which caused you to chew up the aluminum turret slot. You'd strip any screw hole if you use the wrong tool.
 
#28
Pvt.Donut said:
I know their manual shows them using a large flat bit but I'm sure those are coin slots for the turrets. Sounds like you used the wrong sized screwdriver for those slots, which caused you to chew up the aluminum turret slot. You'd strip any screw hole if you use the wrong tool.
Click to expand...
You hit the nail on the head. I used the largest flat bladed screwdriver I had which was large. I did this based on the owners manual. My rationale was that If I tried what you suggested, and believe me, I thought about it, that would be all Vortex needed to not replace those.

I’ve been using scopes for 48 years, so I’m familiar with using a coin. I wonder if Vortex is? Maybe it’s time to amend their owner’s manual?
 
#29
Vortex will make it right . I bought a strike fire red dot sight from them when they first started making them . after about a year the dot turned into a comet and it ate battery's due to a design flaw . I took it off and threw it in a drawer and thats where it lived for the next 9 years . I was on arfcom and somebody ask for a reccomentation and I told him they were junk . Apparently they have a rep that troll's the optic section because he reached out to me and said send it back and we will fix it or replace it . So the sent me a return label and I put it in the mail . about 10 days later I go an e-mail that said that optic had been discontinued and they no longer had part so they were sending me an up grade model . True to there word a couple of days later there was a new red dot sight in the mail box , So I mounted it on my 12 gauge automatic shotgun and it has held up to a steady diet of double ought buck and 12 gauge slugs . Dont sweat they will make it right .
 
#30
sparky702 said:
Vortex will make it right . I bought a strike fire red dot sight from them when they first started making them . after about a year the dot turned into a comet and it ate battery's due to a design flaw . I took it off and threw it in a drawer and thats where it lived for the next 9 years . I was on arfcom and somebody ask for a reccomentation and I told him they were junk . Apparently they have a rep that troll's the optic section because he reached out to me and said send it back and we will fix it or replace it . So the sent me a return label and I put it in the mail . about 10 days later I go an e-mail that said that optic had been discontinued and they no longer had part so they were sending me an up grade model . True to there word a couple of days later there was a new red dot sight in the mail box , So I mounted it on my 12 gauge automatic shotgun and it has held up to a steady diet of double ought buck and 12 gauge slugs . Dont sweat they will make it right .
Click to expand...
I’m glad that things worked out for you! I’m an old school guy. Trust and respect are earned not given automatically!

This was the first time I used this scope and it failed!

I have no confidence in it!

It will be interesting to see what Vortex says after they examine it.

I guess I’ll remain alert! I’m still as mad as I was earlier this week when this scope failed miserably!
 
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#31
MikeMahogany said:
I’m glad that things worked out for you! I’m an old school guy. Trust and respect are earned not given automatically!

This was the first time I used this scope and it failed!

I have no confidence in it!

It will be interesting to see what Vortex says after they examine it.

I guess I’ll remain alert! I’m still as mad as I was earlier this week when this scope failed miserably!
Click to expand...
Oh thats not the only optic I have had to return . I sent back a bushnell 10x that the erector hung up , a super sniper 10x that had metal shavings floating around and an Athlon Argos btr 6x24x50 sent back twice , the third time they sent a gen2 model I was very seriously considering tying the second Argos to a fence post and trying the sniper through the scope shot but I was pissed about the money so I sent it back . every optic was replaced or repaired vortex is not the only one who has failures from time to time . good luck and I hope they treat you right .
 
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#32
sparky702 said:
Oh thats not the only optic I have had to return . I sent back a bushnell 10x that the erector hung up , a super sniper 10x that had metal shavings floating around and an Athlon Argos btr 6x24x50 sent back twice , the third time they sent a gen2 model I was very seriously considering tying the second Argos to a fence post and trying the sniper through the scope shot but I was pissed about the money so I sent it back . every optic was replaced or repaired vortex is not the only one who has failures from time to time . good luck and I hope they treat you right .
Click to expand...
Thanks for your response. I too have had issues with other scopes, Weaver in the 1970's, Tasco in the 1980's. I chose Vortex based on the hype of their product and warranty. What I absolutely despise is right out of the box, having an issue! Only time will tell what Vortex might or might not do in terms of examining the scope to determine if there's an issue, warranty provided and their recommendations to resolve my issue. To that end, I returned the bases and rings I purchased and will wait to see what Vortex suggests I use, so there's no excuse on their part that the bases and rings were inferior. I'm also contemplating how to remove any doubt in their mind about the installation of the bases, rings and scope.
 
#33
Every company makes lemons that make it past the QC inspections. Vortex is no different and their warranty will ensure that it is made right for you.

As much as the Diamondback is on the lower end of their line, it is still an upgrade to the Monarch you had.

Vortex does have a business model that allows them to put enough profit margin into a product to ensure its profitable even with I believe two full replacements. Its smart business, but it also means that you are basically paying a 200% markup from what they paid to have it manufactured.

Most all scope manufacturers have excellent lifetime warranties.. You can thank Vortex for most of them. One of the best things they have done for the industry was to make lifetime warranties a thing.
 
#34
My guess is the fast focus eye piece is moving. Aim the rifle at something and with the rifle still, wiggle the fast focus eye piece while watching if the reticle moves. My guess is that it does move.

If it does, I'm going to suggest that you get a piece of inner tube for a bicycle and cut off a couple sections about an inch or so long. Stretch a couple of them over the ocular housing and the fast focus eye piece. The tension will stabilize the fast focus lens and keep the POI from changing.

Fast focus eye piece assemblies should always come with a locking nut like on Zero Compromise... They do it for a reason.
 
#35
svthuh said:
Every company makes lemons that make it past the QC inspections. Vortex is no different and their warranty will ensure that it is made right for you.

As much as the Diamondback is on the lower end of their line, it is still an upgrade to the Monarch you had.

Vortex does have a business model that allows them to put enough profit margin into a product to ensure its profitable even with I believe two full replacements. Its smart business, but it also means that you are basically paying a 200% markup from what they paid to have it manufactured.

Most all scope manufacturers have excellent lifetime warranties.. You can thank Vortex for most of them. One of the best things they have done for the industry was to make lifetime warranties a thing.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your response. I guess time will tell based on what Vortex determines to be wrong with my scope if anything.

If something is wrong, and they fix it, can I be sure they did? If something is wrong that can’t be fixed, will I be sent a new scope or the same one?

I agree all manufactures will produce lemons at some point.

I don’t have a lot of confidence in Vortex at the moment.
 
#36
PracticalTactical said:
My guess is the fast focus eye piece is moving. Aim the rifle at something and with the rifle still, wiggle the fast focus eye piece while watching if the reticle moves. My guess is that it does move.

If it does, I'm going to suggest that you get a piece of inner tube for a bicycle and cut off a couple sections about an inch or so long. Stretch a couple of them over the ocular housing and the fast focus eye piece. The tension will stabilize the fast focus lens and keep the POI from changing.

Fast focus eye piece assemblies should always come with a locking nut like on Zero Compromise... They do it for a reason.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the suggestion. I sent the scope back to Vortex early this week.
 
#37
MikeMahogany said:
Thanks for your response. I guess time will tell based on what Vortex determines to be wrong with my scope if anything.

If something is wrong, and they fix it, can I be sure they did? If something is wrong that can’t be fixed, will I be sent a new scope or the same one?

I agree all manufactures will produce lemons at some point.

I don’t have a lot of confidence in Vortex at the moment.
Click to expand...
They will either fix it or send you a new one. Whichever is cheaper for them. If you still believe the scope is junk when they send it back, try the nightforce torture test on it and send it back to them. You will definitely get a new one after that.
 
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#39
I had a Viper HS crap out after 50 rounds of 308. Reticle would just shake when adjusting elevation. Vortex (midwayusa) fixed/replaced it and I sold it upon return and upgraded to the Viper PST.

The PST parallax knob would turn freely but the scope was locked on about 25 yards. Junk from the box

Got a brand new replacement in 2 days and sold the scope immediately

I’m a huge fan of the AMAZING Vortex customer service. Unfortunately I no longer trust the scope themselves

But be confident they’ll take of you. They were very prompt and professional with me

Only other CS I’ve had to use was Burris and they took care of me great as well. That was just for what looked like a fingerprint inside the scope lens. Was annoying in bright light but used the scope for years without issue before sending in
 
Last edited:
#41
I don’t know anyone personally who owns a razor but that seems to be the line where vortex actually hold up.

An F Class team member was bragging up his refurbished Golden Eagle when I was shopping for a scope. The same scope crapped out 2 weeks later during the team practice session where I was supposed to test it out in case I wanted to buy one

Needless to say I went with a NF competition...
 
#42
hafejd30 said:
I had a Viper HS crap out after 50 rounds of 308. Reticle would just shake when adjusting elevation. Vortex fixed it and I sold it upon return and upgraded to the Viper PST.

The PST parallax knob would turn freely but the scope was locked on about 25 yards. Junk from the box

Got a brand new replacement in 2 days and sold the scope immediately

I’m a huge fan of the AMAZING Vortex customer service. Unfortunately I no longer trust the scope themselves

But be confident they’ll take of you. They were very prompt and professional with me

Only other CS I’ve had to use was Burris and they took care of me great as well. That was just for what looked like a fingerprint inside the scope lens. Was annoying in bright light but used the scope for years without issue before sending in
Click to expand...
You received a new scope in 2 days? I sent my scope away on Thursday morning early. The post office tracking system says Vortex won’t get it until February 12th. I’m guessing that being a Friday they won’t open the box until the 15th, so who knows when I’ll see anything.
 
#43
MikeMahogany said:
Thanks for your response. I guess time will tell based on what Vortex determines to be wrong with my scope if anything.

If something is wrong, and they fix it, can I be sure they did? If something is wrong that can’t be fixed, will I be sent a new scope or the same one?

I agree all manufactures will produce lemons at some point.

I don’t have a lot of confidence in Vortex at the moment.
Click to expand...
So this is the deal. You need to quit acting like a diva. You bought a cheap Chinese scope and it was broken. Get over it. Do you know how many scopes that I’ve used and broke..... and they were the top of the line scopes too.
All I’m saying is scopes are mechanical, they break. Period. All scopes will break. Some scopes break more than others. I don’t care for Vortex scopes and don’t use them. But give them a chance before you trash them. The company deserves that. If they don’t resolve your problem, then go to town. If you are scared to use Vortex scopes, go to another company.
I’m sure Vortex will fix this, but either way good luck with whatever you decide.
 
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#44
Poorboyr said:
So this is the deal. You need to quit acting like a diva. You bought a cheap Chinese scope and it was broken. Get over it. Do you know how many scopes that I’ve used and broke..... and they were the top of the line scopes too.
All I’m saying is scopes are mechanical, they break. Period. All scopes will break. Some scopes break more than others. I don’t care for Vortex scopes and don’t use them. But give them a chance before you trash them. The company deserves that. If they don’t resolve your problem, then go to town. If you are scared to use Vortex scopes, go to another company.
I’m sure Vortex will fix this, but either way good luck with whatever you decide.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your response except for the, "quit acting like a diva." Not convinced was required, but, I'll leave it there.
 
#45
MikeMahogany said:
You received a new scope in 2 days? I sent my scope away on Thursday morning early. The post office tracking system says Vortex won’t get it until February 12th. I’m guessing that being a Friday they won’t open the box until the 15th, so who knows when I’ll see anything.
Click to expand...

Yes. Keep in mind ups/usps etc wasn’t as much a mess as they are now. They handled a lot less packages and there wasn’t the lost packages there are now etc.

The first time (Viper HS) I called vortex, they said they did not have a replacement for me and gave me the estimated time it would take to fix the current scope. They suggested I contact midwayusa which is who I purchased it from. I sent to midway and they sent me a replacement. I told them my plan to upgrade to the pst and asked to pay the difference so they would send me the pst instead. No dice. They also didn’t have those in stock at time. So I had a new HS to me in normal amount of time. Sold it

Purchased PST. PST was crap from the box. Called vortex and gave them an ear full. Called on Monday. They sent me a replacement scope which arrived Wednesday morning. Inside the box was my new scope and a packaging label which I was to use on the same box to send in broken scope. New scope out, old one in, fixed the label to the box and dropped off at my lgs about 1 mile away where ups frequently picks up and drops packages. After the drop off never heard another word about the broken scope.

Sold the new pst immediately and bought another Sightron SIII

This was probably 2013 ish. Vortex also sent me a bunch of stickers and what not for the inconvenience. So I do technically still have a few vortex products, they’re just stickers stuck on my gun cabinets and tool boxes. So far the stickers haven’t failed me
 
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#47
You will get it, just might take a few weeks. If it makes you feel any better, I’m getting ready to send back my Tangent Theta that won’t hold zero. They all can have issues regardless of who makes it.
 
#48
MikeMahogany said:
Update. Vortex Canada advised me on February 12, 2021 they would be replacing my scope. Haven't received the scope and have sent an email and left a voice message and had no response.
Click to expand...
The entire freight carrying industry was challenged by the issues Covid presented, compounded with last weeks arctic blast that froze 2/3ds of the country and its a real mess. I am just now receiving packages that shipped as much as 3 weeks ago as a result.
 
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#50
Either way Vortex will take care of you.

To everyone.....the scope is mechanical. I’ve seen plenty of them go sour!

I had a $3k plus March scope go sour in the middle of a big F class match. Pissed wasn’t the word for it. Had to send it all the way back to Japan on my dime to get it looked at/warranty work done. Which in my opinion shouldn’t have been the case. That was back around 2009. So they’re warranty and or place you need to send it to has probably changed since then. At least I hope it has.

When dry firing the gun you could see the cross hairs bouncing! That’s one way to check to see if the scope is holding zero. Dry fire it and watch the cross hairs.

You can also line the scope up on a hard object like a telephone pole. Run the elevation dial full up and full down and watch the vertical cross hair. If you can see the cross hair wander off the vertical line.....scope isn’t tracking.

And do the same thing with the horizontal cross hair. Put it on a nice horizontal line (like the edge of a curb etc...) run the windage knob full left and right. Same thing...if you see the cross wandering.....scope isn’t tracking.

The scope could not be holding zero and the above tests not show anything so bluntly like that. So just a suggestion.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
 
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