XM-3 on CMP, what’s the story behind these?

Chabrone · Mar 8, 2022

Saw this and was curious what the story was. I think I saw one for sale a few years back but didn’t know much about them.

Civilian Marksmanship Program - Promoting firearms safety training!

XM-3 Sniper Rifle S6528482 XM-3 Sniper Rifle S6528482 Up for auction is a DEFENSE ADVANCED RESEARCH PROJECT AGENCY (DARPA) XM-3 Sniper Rifle used by the United States Marine Corps. In mid-2005, DARPA worked with Lt. Col. Norm Chandlers Iron Brigade Armory (IBA) to field items to expeditionary...

cmpauction.thecmp.org

Thanks in advance from an ignorant civilian.

fdkay · Mar 8, 2022

It was a Norm Chandler boondoggle.
They were, however, cool rifles that performed pretty damn well.
The package makes sense, but, as typical, the Gov paid WAY more than they should have.
The PWS could have done the same thing for a significantly lower cost.
Chandler sent the actions to Hart (if memory serves) to be trued and barrels chambered/installed.

USMCSGT0331 · Mar 8, 2022

fdkay said:
Chandler sent the actions to Hart (if memory serves) to be trued and barrels chambered/installed.

This is false, all the work on the XM3's was done in house by the IBA armorers (mainly by Jack and Tiny)

TurboTrout · Mar 8, 2022

Huh

DARPA XM-3

The DARPA XM-3 was an improved variant of the M40A3 sniper rifle designed by DARPA in collaboration with Iron Brigade Armory Ltd. in 2005 and built by the Marine Corps Precision Weapons Shop in 2006. An experimental project that was never official, the XM-3 attempted to solve all the...

guns.fandom.com

Not 15k worth of huh, but huh

USMCSGT0331 · Mar 8, 2022

TurboTrout said:
Huh

DARPA XM-3

The DARPA XM-3 was an improved variant of the M40A3 sniper rifle designed by DARPA in collaboration with Iron Brigade Armory Ltd. in 2005 and built by the Marine Corps Precision Weapons Shop in 2006. An experimental project that was never official, the XM-3 attempted to solve all the...

guns.fandom.com

Not 15k worth of huh, but huh

That site is also wrong, the XM3 rifles were built by IBA, not at PWS. Jack Fields did the metal work and "Tiny" Briggs built the rifles.

fdkay · Mar 8, 2022

USMCSGT0331 said:
This is false, all the work on the XM3's was done in house by the IBA armorers (mainly by Jack and Tiny)

Thanks for the info.
Can you share anything else? They are dandy rifles and likely superior than the heavier than it needs to be M40 series.

MilSurp Gold — The $27,556 XM-3 Sniper Rifle « Daily Bulletin

Would you pay over twenty-seven grand for a slightly-used Rem 700 bolt-action rifle and Nightforce scope? Well somebody did just that recently, paying the princely sum of $27,556.00 for a DARPA XM-3 Sniper Rifle system in a CMP Auction.

bulletin.accurateshooter.com

fdkay · Mar 8, 2022

some Steve Reichert stuff on the XM3

DARPA XM-3 Sniper Rifle

For years Marine snipers have been using their coveted bolt-action M40s (A1/2/3/5) to take out enemies all over the world. These rifles are all built by hand at the Marine Corps Precision Weapons...

www.stevereichert.com

USMCSGT0331 · Mar 8, 2022

fdkay said:
Thanks for the info.
Can you share anything else? They are dandy rifles and likely superior than the heavier than it needs to be M40 series.

MilSurp Gold — The $27,556 XM-3 Sniper Rifle « Daily Bulletin

Would you pay over twenty-seven grand for a slightly-used Rem 700 bolt-action rifle and Nightforce scope? Well somebody did just that recently, paying the princely sum of $27,556.00 for a DARPA XM-3 Sniper Rifle system in a CMP Auction.

bulletin.accurateshooter.com

Any technical information or history of the program is well documented on Steve Reichert's website, there's not much I can add to what he's written, it's great information. My platoon had 4 of these rifles when we were in Fallujah, we only used 2 of them. 2 of the 4 have been sold at the CMP auction site, I purchased the tan painted one in the link you posted.

The XM3 is a fantastic rifle, the only shortcoming is the scope. Some platoons replaced their scopes with the S&B from their A3's, other platoons (such as mine) left the NF scope on the rifle. The rifles are very accurate and will easily shoot 1/2 MOA groups (even my IBA XM3 test rifle shot this well).

This was the first time USMC snipers had in-line night vision (no Simrad caps), a silencer, short barrel, simple stock and an adjustable magnification scope all on one rifle. The XM3 was a complete package with all of these new features, not a random one off prototype that only had 1 or 2 of these features. Also, S&B won their contract in 2006, which is the same time the XM3's were built, so the Corps got 2 adjustable magnification scopes at the same time.

If the XM3 had a better scope, 2 piece scope bases and detachable magazines, it would have been damn near perfect. It was an accurate, lightweight, compact rifle with features that weren't found on the early M40A3's of the time. Later on the A3's got an EFR rail, years later they got a silencer on the A5 and years after that they finally got a barrel chop on the A6. It took over a decade for the Corps to integrate all three of these XM3 features into the M40 series. And then they ended up with the boat anchor Remington RACS chassis.

The XM3 is a fantastic rifle which paved the way for features on future M40's. Unfortunately, it just seems to be a footnote in USMC sniping history, when in reality it was probably the single best 7.62 bolt action sniper rifle the Corps ever fielded. Even with the wonky NF scope with MOA turrets and mil reticle, it still got the job done and the snipers only had to memorize a new dope.

Here's the rifle I purchased from the CMP. This photo was taken by Sgt Fechner in 2008 at Camp Baharia (near Fallujah) right after he painted it tan:

Here's the same XM3 in a photo from a previous sniper platoon that used the rifle (it remained in Iraq as a regional asset). This is what it looked like when my platoon got the rifle, before Sgt Fechner painted it tan:

My XM3 with PVS-22 attached:

Here's the XM3 with my M40A6:

fdkay · Mar 8, 2022

USMCSGT0331 said:
Any technical information or history of the program is well documented on Steve Reichert's website, there's not much I can add to what he's written, it's great information. My platoon had 4 of these rifles when we were in Fallujah, we only used 2 of them. 2 of the 4 have been sold at the CMP auction site, I purchased the tan painted one in the link you posted.

The XM3 is a fantastic rifle, the only shortcoming is the scope. Some platoons replaced their scopes with the S&B from their A3's, other platoons (such as mine) left the NF scope on the rifle. The rifles are very accurate and will easily shoot 1/2 MOA groups (even my IBA XM3 test rifle shot this well).

This was the first time USMC snipers had in-line night vision (no Simrad caps), a silencer, short barrel, simple stock and an adjustable magnification scope all on one rifle. The XM3 was a complete package with all of these new features, not a random one off prototype that only had 1 or 2 of these features. Also, S&B won their contract in 2006, which is the same time the XM3's were built, so the Corps got 2 adjustable magnification scopes at the same time.

It the XM3 had a better scope and had detachable magazines, it would have been damn near perfect. It was an accurate, lightweight, compact rifle with features that weren't found on the early M40A3's of the time. Later on the A3's got an EFR rail, years later they finally got a silencer on the A5 and years after that they finally got a barrel chop on the A6. It took over a decade for the Corps to integrate all three of these XM3 features into the M40 series. And then they ended up with the boat anchor Remington RACS chassis.

The XM3 is a fantastic rifle which paved the way for features on future M40's. Unfortunately, it just seems to be a footnote in USMC sniping history, when in reality it was probably the single best 7.62 bolt action sniper rifle the Corps ever fielded. Even with the wonky NF scope with MOA turrets and mil reticle, it still got the job done and the snipers only had to memorize a new dope.

Here's the rifle I purchased from the CMP. This photo was taken by Sgt Fechner in 2008 at Camp Baharia (near Fallujah) right after he painted it tan:

View attachment 7823321

Here's the same XM3 in a photo from a previous sniper platoon that used the rifle (it remained in Iraq as a regional asset). This is what it looked like when my platoon got the rifle, before Sgt Fechner painted it tan:

View attachment 7823324

Here's the XM3 with my M40A6:

Awesome photo's thanks.
Is that a spacer system for LOP adjustment?

USMCSGT0331 · Mar 8, 2022

fdkay said:
Awesome photo's thanks.
Is that a spacer system for LOP adjustment?

Yes, they had spacers to adjust LOP

USMCSGT0331 · Mar 9, 2022

https://thecmp.org/cmp-auction-room-readies-rare-and-fascinating-items-for-auction-site/

"Sometimes, out-of-the-ordinary items come to the auction room – like Army Marksmanship Unit 300 meter rifles, Marine Corps Sniper Rifles, paratrooper Carbines and proto-type rifles. Some even come with fascinating histories attached to them, such as an item currently being readied for auction: an XM3 that includes a log book of all of the recorded “confirmed kills” the marksman made with the rifle. Besides the rarity of the log book, the rifle is also one of only 54 ever made – making it even more attractive for gun collectors.

Another rifle similar to the XM3 came with a letter from the Marine who used the rifle in combat. In the letter, the Marine described how a suicide bomber blew up a vest filled with ball-bearings. The Marine said that the rifle, which helped shield him from the ball-bearings, saved his life."

So, do you guys think the CMP still has these rifles on standby waiting to be auctioned? I really want to see photos of the ball bearing shrapnel XM3 (I don't recall that one coming up for sale).

Here's something sort of related to the IBA XM3's, it's a Remington XM3 made by the Remington Custom Shop. I discussed these rifles with a friend who used to work at the Remington Custom Shop and he said they only made a few of these Remington XM3's. I can't remember if they were civilian sales or if they went to a police department, but none of them went to the Corps.

https://shwat.com/i-shot-a-10000-rifle-today-and-some-other-cool-guns-too/

USMCSGT0331 · Mar 9, 2022

XM3 parts photo dump. I sold this rifle to a friend last year and I disassembled the XM3 so he could see each part of the rifle in detail. This was one of the IBA shop guns they used for testing, it's not a DARPA prototype or USMC used. However, it's an original IBA XM3 that was built about the same time as the USMC rifles and it's in the same serial number range. Since it's a test rifle, the barrel is a slightly different length than the USMC rifles and the scope adjustments are also different. Chandler told me that this particular scope came off 1 of the 2 XM3's they sent to the Army for testing and that this is what they requested for the scope turrets. I just thought a detailed parts breakdown might be beneficial for anyone attempting to clone one of these rifles.

Here's all the parts in one photo:

The barreled action:

Remington 700 short action receiver close-up. The receiver has an "S" prefix serial number, the S indicates that this is a stainless steel receiver. This serial number is right in the middle of the USMC XM3 serial number range. The rear right of the scope base is marked "XM-3" and the rear left of the scope base is marked with the rifle's serial number. The top of the scope base is marked "IRON BRIGADE ARMORY". This is unique to this specific test rifle, the issued USMC XM3's have a shorter scope base which doesn't have any markings on it:

The underside of the receiver, the magazine well is welded to the receiver:

The bolt with a large bolt knob and the last 4 digits of the rifle's serial number stamped on the handle:

The right side of the barrel is marked "P XM-3," the "P" is the proof mark. The left side of the barrel is marked "H-IBA 308 4019." I can't remember what the "H" stands for, so if anyone knows what it is, please post it in this thread. The "IBA" is obviously the maker, "308" is the caliber and "4019" is the last 4 digits of the rifle's serial number.

The muzzle brake is made by SureFire, but is completely sterile. All of the issued USMC rifles have these sterilized SF brakes. This is a small detail that most people overlook when building their XM3 clones.

The McMillan A1-3 stock that was developed specifically for the XM3 program and the Eagle Industries cheek pad:

The entire barrel channel and inletting is filled with a bedding compound in order to seal the exposed fiberglass. The last 4 digits of the rifle's serial number is stamped in the barrel channel. The bottom part of the Colorado Micro Precision EFR is also embedded in the barrel channel:

USMCSGT0331 · Mar 9, 2022

The Badger Ordnance M4 bottom metal is marked with the last 4 digits of the rifle's serial number in 2 places - on the main body of the bottom metal and on the floorplate:

This is the top half of the Colorado Micro Precision (CMP) EFR. There are 2 versions of this rail, the USMC type that doesn't have a rear extension and the non-USMC type that does have the rear extension. If you're building an XM3 clone, this version is the only correct EFR. It's marked with IBA's information on the right side and CMP's information on the left side:

Harris bipod with KMW Pod-Loc and an Uncle Mikes sling swivel attached:

The USMC issued scopes had .25 MOA turret adjustments, this Army scope has a 1 MOA elevation turret and a .25 MOA windage turret. Both versions of the scope have the NightForce mildot reticle with hollow mildots:

That's all the photos I have of this rifle, I hope this is useful information to anyone.

USMCSGT0331 · Mar 9, 2022

Here's a bunch of photos that Sgt Fechner took at Camp Baharia (Fallujah, Iraq) right after he painted the rifle. This is the rifle I bought from the CMP and is 1 of 4 XM3's my platoon had during that deployment. It's amazing to have this much documentation on this rifle!

As I mentioned in a previous post, this is how my platoon received this XM3, before it was repainted. Same rifle, different camo:

Skunk · Mar 9, 2022

I remember that pond….

Chabrone · Mar 9, 2022

USMCSGT0331 said:
https://thecmp.org/cmp-auction-room-readies-rare-and-fascinating-items-for-auction-site/

"Sometimes, out-of-the-ordinary items come to the auction room – like Army Marksmanship Unit 300 meter rifles, Marine Corps Sniper Rifles, paratrooper Carbines and proto-type rifles. Some even come with fascinating histories attached to them, such as an item currently being readied for auction: an XM3 that includes a log book of all of the recorded “confirmed kills” the marksman made with the rifle. Besides the rarity of the log book, the rifle is also one of only 54 ever made – making it even more attractive for gun collectors.

Another rifle similar to the XM3 came with a letter from the Marine who used the rifle in combat. In the letter, the Marine described how a suicide bomber blew up a vest filled with ball-bearings. The Marine said that the rifle, which helped shield him from the ball-bearings, saved his life."

So, do you guys think the CMP still has these rifles on standby waiting to be auctioned? I really want to see photos of the ball bearing shrapnel XM3 (I don't recall that one coming up for sale).

Here's something sort of related to the IBA XM3's, it's a Remington XM3 made by the Remington Custom Shop. I discussed these rifles with a friend who used to work at the Remington Custom Shop and he said they only made a few of these Remington XM3's. I can't remember if they were civilian sales or if they went to a police department, but none of them went to the Corps.

https://shwat.com/i-shot-a-10000-rifle-today-and-some-other-cool-guns-too/

I bet you could call CMP and see how many they have left in addition to the current live auction.

USMCSGT0331 · Mar 9, 2022

Chabrone said:
I bet you could call CMP and see how many they have left in addition to the current live auction.

Nope, a few of us have tried over the past year and they won't give out any information. They used to tell us pretty much anything, but that's changed. We can't even get an idea of how many Unertl scopes they have, years ago they would happily give out that info. A lot has changed since Mark Johnson took over the CMP. There's also some rumors about the XM3 rifles and whether or not they're all going to be sold at auction.

308pirate · Mar 9, 2022

USMCSGT0331 said:
A lot has changed since Mark Johnson took over the CMP.

I remember when he started. Wasn't well received by the clientelle.

USMCSGT0331 · Mar 9, 2022

308pirate said:
I remember when he started. Wasn't well received by the clientelle.

Nope, not in the least bit. But apparently if your friends with him, you get hooked up.......

Chabrone · Mar 9, 2022

Do you still have to be part of a shooting club to bid on CMP auctions? I shoot mostly private land now and dropped my memberships.

fdkay · Mar 9, 2022

USMCSGT0331 said:
Nope, a few of us have tried over the past year and they won't give out any information. They used to tell us pretty much anything, but that's changed. We can't even get an idea of how many Unertl scopes they have, years ago they would happily give out that info. A lot has changed since Mark Johnson took over the CMP. There's also some rumors about the XM3 rifles and whether or not they're all going to be sold at auction.

Knowledge is power, or so they say

USMCSGT0331 · Mar 9, 2022

Chabrone said:
Do you still have to be part of a shooting club to bid on CMP auctions? I shoot mostly private land now and dropped my memberships.

I can't remember any specifics off hand, you'll have to check the CMP's website for any details on prerequisites. I'm a member with the Garand Collector's Association in order to check a box in the CMP requirements. Here's a link to their current purchasing requirements:

https://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/eligibility-requirements/

VargmatII · Mar 10, 2022

What can be said about the factory built Remington XM-3 rifles?

A gun store, which probably is the biggest one in Sweden happens to have an XM-3 in stock. Its the full deployment kit with everything except the surefire suppressor. They have had it in stock since at least 20 years, so its not something people are falling over eachother to get.
Im guessing that the Remington built ones have Remington barrels? Not Hart?
Did Remington make a bunch of these or are they as rare as hens teeth?
It can be had for arount 7000$. Crazy or not?

USMCSGT0331 · Mar 10, 2022

VargmatII said:
What can be said about the factory built Remington XM-3 rifles?

A gun store, which probably is the biggest one in Sweden happens to have an XM-3 in stock. Its the full deployment kit with everything except the surefire suppressor. They have had it in stock since at least 20 years, so its not something people are falling over eachother to get.
Im guessing that the Remington built ones have Remington barrels? Not Hart?
Did Remington make a bunch of these or are they as rare as hens teeth?
It can be had for arount 7000$. Crazy or not?

It would be impossible for that store to have an XM3 for at least 20 years, since the original IBA XM3's built for the Marine Corps were made in 2006, which was 16 years ago. IBA had them available for police and other civilians to purchase from 2006/7 until they shut down however many years ago. The IBA XM3's were available in different packages the most "affordable" being the one without the nightvision and silencer. That package sold for about $8,500 (I don't know the exact number, you guys can Google serial it if you're that interested). This is about what I paid for my first XM3 back in 2012.

IBA didn't sell very many XM3's and that was due to multiple reasons. The first of which was obviously the price. Take away the NF NXS scope and you're still around $7k for the rifle. Think of all the other custom rifle builders in this price range, it's literally anyone you can think of and it's probably going to be a few thousand dollars cheaper than the XM3. Even though the XM3 was a very well built rifle, I'm pretty sure everyone on this forum (myself included and you guys know how much I like the XM3) would choose a Tac Ops over it for about the same price. Additionally, IBA wasn't a very well known company and has always remained rather obscure. GAP, LRI, RWS, etc. were much easier to find and easier communicate with.

These reasons and probably a few others meant that IBA XM3's were never a popular rifle and not many were made over the course of about a decade. Pretty much the only ones out there besides the USMC CMP rifles are the prototype DARPA rifles and the shop's test rifles (the ones that weren't USMC or DARPA). Beyond these, there's probably only a handful of custom orders. I've seen at least a dozen or more IBA Chandler custom rifles (his custom rifles built to the customer's specs) for sale, including one at my local FFL. However, I've never seen a regular 'ol IBA XM3 for sale. Well, I recently sold one of my XM3's to a friend, so 1 XM3 sale in the past decade.

For a collector, finding one of these original IBA XM3's is almost as good as getting one of the USMC CMP rifles. They're literally the exact same, they're in the same serial number range, built by the same guys at the same shop. The only difference is military provenance. People are spending tons of money now trying to find old parts that are no longer made in order to clone an XM3, but it will still never be an actual IBA built XM3.

So, @VargmatII, if your gun store has an original civilian IBA XM3 with everything except the silencer, it's a pretty amazing find, especially for $7,000! Right now the few known civilian XM3's are worth more than their initial $8k+ because they're as close as you can get to a real USMC XM3 without paying real USMC XM3 money. If that's an IBA XM3 kit for $7k and you're a collector, that's an excellent price, buy it. If you're a shooter and not a collector, there's better values and options out there, even though the XM3 is an accurate rifle. If you're a collector who likes to shoot his rare rifles, then you'd like the IBA XM3, buy it.

If the rifle at your gun store is one of the Remington Custom Shop made XM3's, it's almost worth picking up at that price, since they originally sold for around $10,000. It's obviously not an IBA rifle and they were built using a 40X receiver instead of a stainless "S" prefix receiver like the USMC rifles. The markings will also be different and they're built by gunsmiths who didn't build the USMC rifles. To answer your question about what barrel the Remington XM3 used, they used a Hart barrel. And this is just for the Remington XM3 that looks like the IBA XM3 (there's also another version of the Remington XM3). This particular version was listed in Remington's catalogs around 2009/10 and I doubt they sold too many.

Just like the IBA XM3 this one was very expensive, but it's also less desirable to collectors because it's not an IBA rifle. Let's say it's 2012 and you want to buy an XM3, do you buy one from the original XM3 gunsmith or do you buy a more expensive copy from Remington? I was in this exact situation at one point and I bought the IBA rifle. So, if it's a Remington XM3 at your gun store, you can see why it's been sitting there for so long. Collectors don't really want it because it's not an IBA rifle and it's built on the wrong receiver. Shooters don't want it because they can buy pretty much anything else for less money and will be a better suited rifle for that person (custom build spec'd out by the user who's focused on shooting and not collecting, it doesn't have to be locked into the XM3 style). So, you have 2 groups of gun buyers, collectors and shooters, both passing over the Remington XM3.

There was also another type of "XM3" that was built by the Remington Custom Shop and that is the one I posted a photo and link to earlier in this thread. That's was the Custom Shop's attempt to upgrayedd the XM3 into a more modern sniper rifle. So, the added detachable magazines, a different muzzle brake and the painted the rifle in a camo pattern. And I think that's it. And this rifle was also $10,000. I think they only made 2 of these, they weren't a very popular rifle.

@VargmatII, sorry for the extremely long and boring analysis on the rifles, so I'll just give you short answer here:

If it's an original IBA XM3, buy it. $7k is a great price on a real IBA XM3, but since it's been sitting there forever you might be able to make an offer and get an even better deal.
If it's a Remington XM3, buy something else (unless the XM3 is your Holy Grail rifle and you absolutely need any kind of XM3 clone).

I hope this helps you out, but it also might be a bunch of late night gibberish. Please take some photographs of the rifle and kit the next time you're in that gun shop, I think everyone in this thread would love to see what it looks like!

Also, here's a link to the 2010 Remington catalog, their version of the XM3 is on pages 48 and 49:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://cartridgecollectors.org/content/catalogs/REMINGTON/2010-Remington-Retail%20Catalog-Full%20Size.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj4y4f-lbv2AhUUKn0KHaGPA304FBAWegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw2pkw3_NUd8RHUxj7cG4OA9

And a Tac Ops version of the XM3 would be awesome!

VargmatII · Mar 10, 2022

USMCSGT0331 said:
It would be impossible for that store to have an XM3 for at least 20 years, since the original IBA XM3's built for the Marine Corps were made in 2006, which was 16 years ago. IBA had them available for police and other civilians to purchase from 2006/7 until they shut down however many years ago. The IBA XM3's were available in different packages the most "affordable" being the one without the nightvision and silencer. That package sold for about $8,500 (I don't know the exact number, you guys can Google serial it if you're that interested). This is about what I paid for my first XM3 back in 2012.

IBA didn't sell very many XM3's and that was due to multiple reasons. The first of which was obviously the price. Take away the NF NXS scope and you're still around $7k for the rifle. Think of all the other custom rifle builders in this price range, it's literally anyone you can think of and it's probably going to be a few thousand dollars cheaper than the XM3. Even though the XM3 was a very well built rifle, I'm pretty sure everyone on this forum (myself included and you guys know how much I like the XM3) would choose a Tac Ops over it for about the same price. Additionally, IBA wasn't a very well known company and has always remained rather obscure. GAP, LRI, RWS, etc. were much easier to find and easier communicate with.

These reasons and probably a few others meant that IBA XM3's were never a popular rifle and not many were made over the course of about a decade. Pretty much the only ones out there besides the USMC CMP rifles are the prototype DARPA rifles and the shop's test rifles (the ones that weren't USMC or DARPA). Beyond these, there's probably only a handful of custom orders. I've seen at least a dozen or more IBA Chandler custom rifles (his custom rifles built to the customer's specs) for sale, including one at my local FFL. However, I've never seen a regular 'ol IBA XM3 for sale. Well, I recently sold one of my XM3's to a friend, so 1 XM3 sale in the past decade.

For a collector, finding one of these original IBA XM3's is almost as good as getting one of the USMC CMP rifles. They're literally the exact same, they're in the same serial number range, built by the same guys at the same shop. The only difference is military provenance. People are spending tons of money now trying to find old parts that are no longer made in order to clone an XM3, but it will still never be an actual IBA built XM3.

So, @VargmatII, if your gun store has an original civilian IBA XM3 with everything except the silencer, it's a pretty amazing find, especially for $7,000! Right now the few known civilian XM3's are worth more than their initial $8k+ because they're as close as you can get to a real USMC XM3 without paying real USMC XM3 money. If that's an IBA XM3 kit for $7k and you're a collector, that's an excellent price, buy it. If you're a shooter and not a collector, there's better values and options out there, even though the XM3 is an accurate rifle. If you're a collector who likes to shoot his rare rifles, then you'd like the IBA XM3, buy it.

If the rifle at your gun store is one of the Remington Custom Shop made XM3's, it's almost worth picking up at that price, since they originally sold for around $10,000. It's obviously not an IBA rifle and they were built using a 40X receiver instead of a stainless "S" prefix receiver like the USMC rifles. The markings will also be different and they're built by gunsmiths who didn't build the USMC rifles. To answer your question about what barrel the Remington XM3 used, they used a Hart barrel. And this is just for the Remington XM3 that looks like the IBA XM3 (there's also another version of the Remington XM3). This particular version was listed in Remington's catalogs around 2009/10 and I doubt they sold too many.

Just like the IBA XM3 this one was very expensive, but it's also less desirable to collectors because it's not an IBA rifle. Let's say it's 2012 and you want to buy an XM3, do you buy one from the original XM3 gunsmith or do you buy a more expensive copy from Remington? I was in this exact situation at one point and I bought the IBA rifle. So, if it's a Remington XM3 at your gun store, you can see why it's been sitting there for so long. Collectors don't really want it because it's not an IBA rifle and it's built on the wrong receiver. Shooters don't want it because they can buy pretty much anything else for less money and will be a better suited rifle for that person (custom build spec'd out by the user who's focused on shooting and not collecting, it doesn't have to be locked into the XM3 style). So, you have 2 groups of gun buyers, collectors and shooters, both passing over the Remington XM3.

There was also another type of "XM3" that was built by the Remington Custom Shop and that is the one I posted a photo and link to earlier in this thread. That's was the Custom Shop's attempt to upgrayedd the XM3 into a more modern sniper rifle. So, the added detachable magazines, a different muzzle brake and the painted the rifle in a camo pattern. And I think that's it. And this rifle was also $10,000. I think they only made 2 of these, they weren't a very popular rifle.

@VargmatII, sorry for the extremely long and boring analysis on the rifles, so I'll just give you short answer here:

If it's an original IBA XM3, buy it. $7k is a great price on a real IBA XM3, but since it's been sitting there forever you might be able to make an offer and get an even better deal.

If it's a Remington XM3, buy something else (unless the XM3 is your Holy Grail rifle and you absolutely need any kind of XM3 clone).

I hope this helps you out, but it also might be a bunch of late night gibberish. Please take some photographs of the rifle and kit the next time you're in that gun shop, I think everyone in this thread would love to see what it looks like!

Also, here's a link to the 2010 Remington catalog, their version of the XM3 is on pages 48 and 49:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://cartridgecollectors.org/content/catalogs/REMINGTON/2010-Remington-Retail%20Catalog-Full%20Size.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj4y4f-lbv2AhUUKn0KHaGPA304FBAWegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw2pkw3_NUd8RHUxj7cG4OA9

And a Tac Ops version of the XM3 would be awesome!

Hi!

Well, then I over estimated the time frame a bit, but for sure, its been there for 15 years give or take. I know since it was around that time I got my hunters certificate and I was amazed that there was a Remington 700 for that kind of money. At that time I knew next to nothing about different military rifles. Now, with years down the road with lots of reading, shooting and compeating I have at least a bit more ground to stand on.

The rifle is an XM-3 no doubt about it. Allthough I will have to ask the gun shop about a photo of the reciever to see what kind of marking and serial# it has.

In all, it is a very very peculiar find in a Swedish gun shop, as there really is no given market for an XM-3 here. And that is the given reason why its been sitting on a shelf all these years.
It has the green MacMillan stock, hinged floor plate and Surefire muzzlebrake. It comes with the Nightforce NXS scope with NF ultralight rings and harris bipod, as well as a leather rifle sling. There is also a stock pack of some sort and cleaning kit, all in a plastic hard case (peli?).

Also, there really is no kind of "clone" rifle sceene here in Sweden. Pretty much no one cares about stuff like that. With few exceptions. There is a Norwegian guy who built a M40A5 and I put a Mark 13 mod 5 (ish) rifle together a few years ago.
Remington rifles in general fetch a really low second hand market price and if one where to get the XM-3 and regret it. I am sure that it would be a VERY hard sale at even half the price. To me, one of the biggest drawbacks on getting the XM-3 is that it would pretty much be impossible to get the surefire suppressor for it. And I pretty much always shoot suppressed.

And thank you for a very thorough reply.

fdkay · Mar 10, 2022

VargmatII said:
Hi!

Well, then I over estimated the time frame a bit, but for sure, its been there for 15 years give or take. I know since it was around that time I got my hunters certificate and I was amazed that there was a Remington 700 for that kind of money. At that time I knew next to nothing about different military rifles. Now, with years down the road with lots of reading, shooting and compeating I have at least a bit more ground to stand on.

The rifle is an XM-3 no doubt about it. Allthough I will have to ask the gun shop about a photo of the reciever to see what kind of marking and serial# it has.

In all, it is a very very peculiar find in a Swedish gun shop, as there really is no given market for an XM-3 here. And that is the given reason why its been sitting on a shelf all these years.
It has the green MacMillan stock, hinged floor plate and Surefire muzzlebrake. It comes with the Nightforce NXS scope with NF ultralight rings and harris bipod, as well as a leather rifle sling. There is also a stock pack of some sort and cleaning kit, all in a plastic hard case (peli?).

Also, there really is no kind of "clone" rifle sceene here in Sweden. Pretty much no one cares about stuff like that. With few exceptions. There is a Norwegian guy who built a M40A5 and I put a Mark 13 mod 5 (ish) rifle together a few years ago.
Remington rifles in general fetch a really low second hand market price and if one where to get the XM-3 and regret it. I am sure that it would be a VERY hard sale at even half the price. To me, one of the biggest drawbacks on getting the XM-3 is that it would pretty much be impossible to get the surefire suppressor for it. And I pretty much always shoot suppressed.

And thank you for a very thorough reply.

The Remington produced XM3 was a custom shop rifle, so that accounts for part of the premium, it apparently was a trued 40X that did indeed come with a hand lapped Hart barrel.
Here is a link to the 2009 catalog, you have to get down to the bottom at the custom rifle pages.
File was too large to upload
https://cartridgecollectors.org/content/catalogs/REMINGTON/2009-Remington-Retail Catalog.pdf

Kilosierra · Mar 10, 2022

USMCSGT0331 said:
And a Tac Ops version of the XM3 would be awesome!

I believe that would be the Tac Ops Whiskey 51.

D_TROS · Aug 17, 2022

USMCSGT0331 said:
...

If the XM3 had a better scope, 2 piece scope bases and detachable magazines, it would have been damn near perfect. It was an accurate, lightweight, compact rifle with features that weren't found on the early M40A3's of the time. Later on the A3's got an EFR rail, years later they got a silencer on the A5 and years after that they finally got a barrel chop on the A6. It took over a decade for the Corps to integrate all three of these XM3 features into the M40 series. And then they ended up with the boat anchor Remington RACS chassis.

...

Curious why you would ask for a 2 piece scope base?

thanks!
DT

Chabrone · Aug 17, 2022

I probably don’t need to post this but I’m out on price so here you go.

Civilian Marksmanship Program - Promoting firearms safety training!

XM-3 Sniper Rifle S6539494 XM-3 Sniper Rifle S6539494 Up for auction is a DEFENSE ADVANCED RESEARCH PROJECT AGENCY (DARPA) XM-3 Sniper Rifle used by the United States Marine Corps. In mid-2005, DARPA worked with Lt. Col. Norm Chandlers Iron Brigade Armory (IBA) to field items to expeditionary...

cmpauction.thecmp.org

Bigfatcock · Aug 17, 2022

Were any ever fielded with a fluted barrel?

USMCSGT0331 · Aug 17, 2022

D_TROS said:
Curious why you would ask for a 2 piece scope base?

thanks!
DT

For 2 reasons, the first is that it makes it easier to reach into the receiver port. There's different reasons as to why you'd need to do this, but a 1 piece scope base blocks some of the area and makes it slightly more difficult get in there. This is something that could be important on a rifle that's being used in combat.

The second reason is something that Mike from Tac Ops has observed. As many of you know, his rifles are spectacular and he strives strives to squeeze out every last bit of accuracy a rifle is capable of. He's observed that the one piece scope bases can have a slight effect on accuracy (he went into further detail on how, I just don't remember everything he said). I have tons of rifles with one piece scope bases that shoot great and I doubt I'd ever notice any change if the single piece scope base were switched with a 2 piece set. It's something that a really great shooter/gunsmith has personally seen over the past few decades building sniper rifles for countless military units, law enforcement agencies, government agencies and civilians. This is his recommendation and I just listen to a lot of what he has to say.

So, it's just a minor change that might have a few useful qualities, whether noticeable or not.

USMCSGT0331 · Aug 18, 2022

Bigfatcock said:
Were any ever fielded with a fluted barrel?

One of them

Bigfatcock · Aug 18, 2022

USMCSGT0331 said:
No, not that I know of. Norm said they experimented with different barrel lengths and barrels fluting with the prototypes, but the flutes didn't end up on the USMC rifles

I sent you a PM.

Forgetful Coyote · Aug 18, 2022

VargmatII said:
Hi!

Well, then I over estimated the time frame a bit, but for sure, its been there for 15 years give or take. I know since it was around that time I got my hunters certificate and I was amazed that there was a Remington 700 for that kind of money. At that time I knew next to nothing about different military rifles. Now, with years down the road with lots of reading, shooting and compeating I have at least a bit more ground to stand on.

The rifle is an XM-3 no doubt about it. Allthough I will have to ask the gun shop about a photo of the reciever to see what kind of marking and serial# it has.

In all, it is a very very peculiar find in a Swedish gun shop, as there really is no given market for an XM-3 here. And that is the given reason why its been sitting on a shelf all these years.
It has the green MacMillan stock, hinged floor plate and Surefire muzzlebrake. It comes with the Nightforce NXS scope with NF ultralight rings and harris bipod, as well as a leather rifle sling. There is also a stock pack of some sort and cleaning kit, all in a plastic hard case (peli?).

Also, there really is no kind of "clone" rifle sceene here in Sweden. Pretty much no one cares about stuff like that. With few exceptions. There is a Norwegian guy who built a M40A5 and I put a Mark 13 mod 5 (ish) rifle together a few years ago.
Remington rifles in general fetch a really low second hand market price and if one where to get the XM-3 and regret it. I am sure that it would be a VERY hard sale at even half the price. To me, one of the biggest drawbacks on getting the XM-3 is that it would pretty much be impossible to get the surefire suppressor for it. And I pretty much always shoot suppressed.

And thank you for a very thorough reply.

What are some of the more popular rifles in the Swedish shooting scene?
Also, are Schultz & Larsen barrels very common over there? They have a reputation(at least from what I hear) as basically the best barrels made in Europe going back decades and decades, next to Grunig & Elmiger(but they only make tubes for their own rifles and dont sell separately AFAIK) now that Border is no longer..

@Bigfatcock nice to see you in vintage bud. This is the best section on SH by far. Nothing but class acts in here eg: @sirhrmechanic @buffalowinter @sandwarrior @pmclaine etc etc

superdave269 · Sep 11, 2022

USMCSGT0331

Can you tell me what model Harris bipod that is on your rifle? I think it should be marked.
Thanks

me124704 · Sep 12, 2022

superdave269 said:
USMCSGT0331
Can you tell me what model Harris bipod that is on your rifle? I think it should be marked.
Thanks

I believe that’s the S-BRM.

superdave269 · Sep 12, 2022

Thank you. I am going to order one from Harris.
Have a good day!

USMCsean · Sep 14, 2022

Forgetful Coyote said:
What are some of the more popular rifles in the Swedish shooting scene?
Also, are Schultz & Larsen barrels very common over there? They have a reputation(at least from what I hear) as basically the best barrels made in Europe going back decades and decades, next to Grunig & Elmiger(but they only make tubes for their own rifles and dont sell separately AFAIK) now that Border is no longer..

@Bigfatcock nice to see you in vintage bud. This is the best section on SH by far. Nothing but class acts in here eg: @sirhrmechanic @buffalowinter @sandwarrior @pmclaine etc etc

The Sauer STR (Scandinavian Target Rifle) is, or at least was, a very popular rifle over in Sweden for competition shooting.

VargmatII · Sep 14, 2022

Forgetful Coyote said:
What are some of the more popular rifles in the Swedish shooting scene?
Also, are Schultz & Larsen barrels very common over there? They have a reputation(at least from what I hear) as basically the best barrels made in Europe going back decades and decades, next to Grunig & Elmiger(but they only make tubes for their own rifles and dont sell separately AFAIK) now that Border is no longer..

Sauer STR/SSG3000 are very common, as stated. Also there are a lot of Tikkas and the old diopter shooters still use a lot of old Mauser C96 of various kinds.

The top Swedish PRS guys run Defiance and KS arms seems popular too.

S&L barrels seems to have been more popular back in the 90-ies. The top barrel brands used now seems to be IBI, Bartlein and Krieger.
The STRs can have barrels from Sauer, Blaser, S&L, Heym and Norma. It all depends on what your local shop has available and how picky you are.

USMCsean · Sep 16, 2022

I've always wanted to have a Sauer STR, but unfortunately, they aren't really available in North America.

cherokeefan03 · Sep 16, 2022

fdkay said:
some Steve Reichert stuff on the XM3

DARPA XM-3 Sniper Rifle

For years Marine snipers have been using their coveted bolt-action M40s (A1/2/3/5) to take out enemies all over the world. These rifles are all built by hand at the Marine Corps Precision Weapons...

www.stevereichert.com

Steve Reichert could tell me the sky was blue and I would think he was full of shit.

VargmatII · Sep 16, 2022

USMCsean said:
I've always wanted to have a Sauer STR, but unfortunately, they aren't really available in North America.

Its a good rifle, a bit cumbersome but not too bad. The ability to change barrels with a hexkey is great and the action is very slick.
I ran one for about two years before I sold mine to Mr.Spuhr himself.

kft101 · Sep 21, 2022

Not to hijack this thread, but what’s better than having one XM3 (clone) at the Thunder Ranch Mid-Range Rifle course this past weekend? How about two?

teufelhunden · Sep 21, 2022

Love those XM3/S&B’s

5RWill · Sep 27, 2022

Mine is finally done. Foaming at the mouth to go shoot it. Also wish i could find a CMP mount

5RWill · Sep 27, 2022

kft101 said:
Not to hijack this thread, but what’s better than having one XM3 (clone) at the Thunder Ranch Mid-Range Rifle course this past weekend? How about two?

View attachment 7960930 View attachment 7960931

More details please. And footage if you have it

5RWill · Oct 8, 2022

kft101 · Oct 9, 2022

5RWill said:
More details please. And footage if you have it

If you insist. Here’s a pic from the course of Mr. Thunder Ranch himself trying to spoon me.

pmclaine · Oct 9, 2022

kft101 said:
If you insist. Here’s a pic from the course of Mr. Thunder Ranch himself trying to spoon me.
View attachment 7973175

You don’t look to be resisting’ much…..

kft101 · Oct 9, 2022

pmclaine said:
You don’t look to be resisting’ much…..

Didn’t say I was resisting.

Having trouble using the site?

XM-3 on CMP, what’s the story behind these?

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