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U.S. Army/Navy/USMC M14-based sniper and DMR/SDM rifles circa late-1960s to late 201Xs
- Thread starter Random Guy
- Start date
OK, an Unertl over an M14 -- that's pretty cool.
A very neat and extremely difficult replica to make of a mid-90s era USMC prototype DMR rifle, when they were testing different configurations. Thanks for the pics, awesome patina on that rifle.
Inspiration for my little winter 2022-23 project is this picture in Peter Senich’s book, The Long-Range War: Sniping in Vietnam (1996). This picture was taken in October 1969, showing two US Army 1st infantry snipers posing with camouflaged/painted M14s. Rifle on the right has the AWC/M84 sniper scope set-up, and the rifle on the left has the night vision rail that was likely used with an AN/PVS-2 night vision scope. Both rifles appear to have “in-country” camo paint jobs, presumably a mixture of black and OD green...so I decided to camo an old stock in a similar manner.
Another inspiration (but in color) – was this vintage camo paint job on a Vietnam era M14 stock. This stock is owned by USMCSGT0331, and he purchased it from a Rock Island auction. It has honest patina and the old paint job appears legit. Note the bare wood spot in this pic from all that spent brass hitting that area - its well used....
Below is the ‘Before picture’ of a Sachs & Sons walnut stock that had a few dings and a small slice of wood missing at bottom of the mag well, making it a good candidate to repair that small void, and then painting the stock. The Majic (brand) oil-based paint used was suggested by Rob Ski, who did a very nice job painting the stock for his XM21 replica. (It’s oil-based paint, flat black and flat OD green, got it amazon.com). It's goes on very thick...
...and here's the 'after pics.' Two coats of black followed by OD green for the pattern. My original AWC scope mount w/ M84 scope is being borrowed by a machinest at the moment, so I put a vintage (1950s/60s era) Kollmorgen 4x Bear Cub scope with an old Bassett scope mount.
(I'm going to swap the optics for the vintage 1967 era AWC mount and M84 scope, once I get it back from the machinest)
Since the M14 on the left in that 1969 picture has the night vision rail attached, presumably for an AN/PVS-2, here's my retro project with a Vietnam era AN/PVS-3 night vision optic. (It's over 50 years old and lacks intensifier tubes, so it's for display only purposes)
It's sort of funny today to see what a "Night Vision Sight Miniaturized" scope looked like back in 1968-70...but it is smaller than the AN/PVS-2.
Anyhow, I'm not much of artist and I need to weather the paint a little bit more, but that's my little retro winter project.
Another inspiration (but in color) – was this vintage camo paint job on a Vietnam era M14 stock. This stock is owned by USMCSGT0331, and he purchased it from a Rock Island auction. It has honest patina and the old paint job appears legit. Note the bare wood spot in this pic from all that spent brass hitting that area - its well used....
Below is the ‘Before picture’ of a Sachs & Sons walnut stock that had a few dings and a small slice of wood missing at bottom of the mag well, making it a good candidate to repair that small void, and then painting the stock. The Majic (brand) oil-based paint used was suggested by Rob Ski, who did a very nice job painting the stock for his XM21 replica. (It’s oil-based paint, flat black and flat OD green, got it amazon.com). It's goes on very thick...
...and here's the 'after pics.' Two coats of black followed by OD green for the pattern. My original AWC scope mount w/ M84 scope is being borrowed by a machinest at the moment, so I put a vintage (1950s/60s era) Kollmorgen 4x Bear Cub scope with an old Bassett scope mount.
(I'm going to swap the optics for the vintage 1967 era AWC mount and M84 scope, once I get it back from the machinest)
Since the M14 on the left in that 1969 picture has the night vision rail attached, presumably for an AN/PVS-2, here's my retro project with a Vietnam era AN/PVS-3 night vision optic. (It's over 50 years old and lacks intensifier tubes, so it's for display only purposes)
It's sort of funny today to see what a "Night Vision Sight Miniaturized" scope looked like back in 1968-70...but it is smaller than the AN/PVS-2.
Anyhow, I'm not much of artist and I need to weather the paint a little bit more, but that's my little retro winter project.
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B Squadron, Delta, early to mid-1980s.
Note the wood-stock Remington 40X repeaters (front and second row), and the single M21 with ART II (front row, right end in Ray-Bans as looking at the group):
Note the wood-stock Remington 40X repeaters (front and second row), and the single M21 with ART II (front row, right end in Ray-Bans as looking at the group):
Sure lo
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Sure looks like I see some Weaver Micro Tracs in there as well. I want to say at least 3 of them are on the Remmy’s. Maybe 4 out of the 5. Interesting pic! Thanks for sharing!B Squadron, Delta, early to mid-1980s.
Note the wood-stock Remington 40X repeaters (front and second row), and the single M21 with ART II (front row, right end in Ray-Bans as looking at the group):
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Random,
This photo may be of interest to you. This rifle may be in the inventory of the 146th Airlift Wing Security Forces Squadron at Channel Islands Air National Guard Base in CA. Photo was take a few years ago at a joint agency terror training drill at NAS Pt. Mugu. Don't have any specifics on the rifle, but looks unique to be in Air Force inventory. Enjoy.
This photo may be of interest to you. This rifle may be in the inventory of the 146th Airlift Wing Security Forces Squadron at Channel Islands Air National Guard Base in CA. Photo was take a few years ago at a joint agency terror training drill at NAS Pt. Mugu. Don't have any specifics on the rifle, but looks unique to be in Air Force inventory. Enjoy.
Thanks WaywardSon for sharing the pic!
Wish there was a closer pic of the stock. Scope and mount as well.
What do you think Random Guy?
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine insurgent -- possibly captured Israeli rifle:
Interesting scope mount!Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine insurgent -- possibly captured Israeli rifle:
DW
Interesting scope adjustment happening too, lol
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Is that a modified SVD mount? Almost looks like stamped sheetmetal! Rings look like Leupold Rifleman 2-screw.
Everything about the setup screams 5moa+:
- scope/mount/rings
- GI plastic stock with handguard tight to forend and rear handguard clip proud of the handguard
- rigid bipod supported by gas cylinder/barrel
- no cheek riser, though as tall as that mount is he may be using chin-weld
- something not right about the gas cylinder - front ring/locking collar (figure 8) too fat
Judging by the shooter's adjustment of illum during daylight, he was thrown into the ghillie jumper and behind the rifle for the photo OP. Next outfit/photo op will be a standard PFLP-issue "breaching vest"
Everything about the setup screams 5moa+:
- scope/mount/rings
- GI plastic stock with handguard tight to forend and rear handguard clip proud of the handguard
- rigid bipod supported by gas cylinder/barrel
- no cheek riser, though as tall as that mount is he may be using chin-weld
- something not right about the gas cylinder - front ring/locking collar (figure 8) too fat
Judging by the shooter's adjustment of illum during daylight, he was thrown into the ghillie jumper and behind the rifle for the photo OP. Next outfit/photo op will be a standard PFLP-issue "breaching vest"
T-somethin' Weaver (6,10,14, 16, or 24)
What interesting is when I zoom in to the muzzles on some of them 40X's....it looks like some are 30 cal bores but a couple look smaller.
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B Squadron, Delta, early to mid-1980s.
Note the wood-stock Remington 40X repeaters (front and second row), and the single M21 with ART II (front row, right end in Ray-Bans as looking at the group):
Kinda reminds me of this USMC prototype:
Sorry for the bolt gun in the M14 thread, just wanted a slight thread derail since those other 40X photos were posted.
Back to M14 stuff!
Remember my black USMC M14 DMR build, my friend sighted in that rifle and shot this 5 round group at 608 yards, it's definitely a shooter!
That would be awesome, I appreciate the invite! If we went shooting, I'd bring a bunch of cool stuff for you guys to shoot. No point in having really awesome pieces of history if you can't share them with your friends!
Your friend made a sweet video with your USMC DMR! very sexy gun!
I've never seen this configuration before! Looks like a USMC green stock M14 DMR with an old school LaRue STOMP mount and a Horus Vision Talon 1-4x scope (?)
Battle in the Najaf necropolis ~August 2004
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Just me, but I think I`d ditch the red head band before hitting the field!Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine insurgent -- possibly captured Israeli rifle:
Good shit @sinister ! Everyone loves pic threads.
If you got any good ones of SR25's/M110's/Mk 11's in action.. post em up sir!
www.snipershide.com
If you got any good ones of SR25's/M110's/Mk 11's in action.. post em up sir!
History of the SR25
Hey y’all - figured this would get better/more accurate info and/or more responses in the vintage section at this point. At this particular point, I have only 2 questions to start: 1) Chris Bartocci claims that the first SR25’s actually used Remington sourced 5R barrels..?? Is this true? I...
www.snipershide.com
I believe those were Remington 40Xs in 22-250 -- at the time, probably the most consistently precise factory centerfire cartridge to 200-300 yards in production.
I believe the fella in Ray-Bans (and the only one with an M21) is MSG Greg Strom from Wyoming. I'm not sure anyone could tell him he didn't know how to shoot one.
Retired Army Master Sergeant Greg Allyn Strom, 62, Laramie, died Saturday, August 31, 2019 at Hospice of Laramie.
He was born in Laramie March 27, 1957, son of Roy Allyn Strom and Joan Nazarenus Strom.
He married Vicki Lynne Keeter November 10, 1995 in Fayetteville, North Carolina while stationed at Fort Bragg.
He attended Prep and graduated from Laramie High School in 1975. He attended the University of Wyoming. He received an Associate of Science in General Education from Troy State University in 1990.
He entered the US Army in 1978. He was assigned to the United States Army Marksmanship Unit in 1979. From 1979-1988 he served with the Service Rifle section as Instructor/Shooter. MSG Strom is the only shooter to win all three major matches, the US Army Championships, the Interservice Championships and the National Championships in the same year (1987). He won the President’s Match twice, 1980 and 1984. The last decade of his Army career was spent with 1st Special Forces Operation Detachment-Delta. He retired in 2000 after 22 years military service.
I googled that picture, which I associated with the Delta team who was part of the 1980 Iran Hostage effort. Below is the caption from where it comes from. So that class picture is a bit earlier, apparently taken in 1979, just before they started training for Operation Eagle Claw.
...Here's a picture from April 1980 with I suspect some of the same men in civilian clothes - but the same black caps...
Caption: Members of Delta Force board a cargo plane in Wadi Kena, Egypt, to fly to Masirah, Oman., Public Domain
Another picture from that same era (note the date).
Fwiw, detailed history of Operation Eagle Claw. Hard lessons were learned in the tragic aftermath, and USSOCOM was formed as a response.
(Some historians have written that Jimmy Carter's presidency was doomed after April 1980, due to this failed mission and the loss of 8 soldiers)
How The Iran Hostage Rescue Was Supposed To Go Down If It Hadn't Ended Early In Disaster
Operation Eagle Claw was amazingly complex with incredible risks at every turn. Here is exactly how it was supposed to go down, step by step.
www.thedrive.com
....Anyhow, just wanted to correctly date that 'class picture' of Delta team to 1979, just prior to Operation Eagle Claw.
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Here's a (bad) picture of my M14 from the late 1980'ies while serving in the Norwegian National Guard.
The M14 is made by Winchester. Mount is SWAN (?) and scope is S&B 6x42 "PM2" with BDC clicks from 1 - 800m.
The M14 is made by Winchester. Mount is SWAN (?) and scope is S&B 6x42 "PM2" with BDC clicks from 1 - 800m.
I knew I saw that picture somewhere...Pre-Kevlar helmet, pre-M16A2, early 1980s it looks like, M21 with ART-II:
Yes, MP40.
The Military Police did not like the conversion to MP5 in the 80'ies. They thought the "fear factor" was much higher with the MP40 because that's what the Gestapo used in their 0400 hour house calls and other unpleasant actions during ww2. Nothing could compare to that.
The MG42s and MG34 in the picure are converted to 7.62NATO.
The pistol is a Glock 17. The Norwegian Army adopted the Glock in the 80'ies as Pistol P80.
The Military Police did not like the conversion to MP5 in the 80'ies. They thought the "fear factor" was much higher with the MP40 because that's what the Gestapo used in their 0400 hour house calls and other unpleasant actions during ww2. Nothing could compare to that.
The MG42s and MG34 in the picure are converted to 7.62NATO.
The pistol is a Glock 17. The Norwegian Army adopted the Glock in the 80'ies as Pistol P80.
Pictures of US Special Forces soldiers with an unusual XM25/M25 sniper rifle. This was taken in Iraq in 2003. In the background are Kurdish soldiers.
What is unique about this rifle (aside from the fact that not many were made 30 years ago), is that it has the old Pachmyar buttpad on the McMillan M1A stock, instead of the typical M14 buttplate. The rubber buttpad configuration was something that 10th SFG SOTIC instructor Thomas Kapp (RIP) had specified with McMillan back in the late 1980s/early 90s. These are the only pictures I have ever seen of the original XM25/M25s being used in Iraq.
Here's my XM25 replica/tribute build circa late 1980s era that has the same configuration as seen in those pics. (Coincidentally, I added some old green M22 binocs to this picture a while back, and I spotted the same 7x50mm military binocs are seen in those circa 2003 pictures from Iraq):
What is unique about this rifle (aside from the fact that not many were made 30 years ago), is that it has the old Pachmyar buttpad on the McMillan M1A stock, instead of the typical M14 buttplate. The rubber buttpad configuration was something that 10th SFG SOTIC instructor Thomas Kapp (RIP) had specified with McMillan back in the late 1980s/early 90s. These are the only pictures I have ever seen of the original XM25/M25s being used in Iraq.
Here's my XM25 replica/tribute build circa late 1980s era that has the same configuration as seen in those pics. (Coincidentally, I added some old green M22 binocs to this picture a while back, and I spotted the same 7x50mm military binocs are seen in those circa 2003 pictures from Iraq):
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This is interesting. In 2000 when I was on the security forces staff (Pentagon) we were struggling with new mission profiles that considered a designated marksman requirement (flyboys hated the word sniper) so we could reach out to mid-range (600yds). We were still carrying A2s (until post 9-11 when we bullied our way into the M4 production line) and needed something in the inventory to consider. Since the Army was heavily into the M24, there were loads of M21s available; some could have easily been requisitioned and made it to units as it was not a HQ level decision, individual units could procure. IIRC, Guard and Reserve units jumped at the chance. Not saying this rifle took that path, but post 9-11 the M21s were again being routinely fielded and no longer available for transfer.
Great read. Lots of history here. Wish a good book on this was put together. Sinister?
Ukraine, November 2023:
Amateur hour there... Bet that dude's dead
Naw, that helmet in the window will fool 'em.
Digressing, but Ukrainian snipers who are still alive have acquired a lot of combat exposure. A new record was reportable reached this month, a Russian invader hit at a whopping 3800 meters.
www.kyivpost.com
Apparently a domestic sniper rifle called the “Lords Horizen” using a special Cartridge 12.7x114 "HL:
The 12.7x114 "HL" cartridge can be used as a more efficient alternative to the 14.5x114 cartridge by simply replacing the barrels in appropriate anti-material rifles or machine guns. The set of combat characteristics of the cartridge 12.7x114 "HL" significantly exceeds 14.5x114 (up to 35%), has a smaller recoil momentum, allows the use of shorter barrels and reduces the total weight of the weapon up to 40%.
The bullet maintains supersonic speed over the distance of 2700 m.
Combined (simultaneous) equipment of the cartridge 12.7x114 "HL" with gunpowder with different combustion progression allows to reach 1100 m/s ar a match bullet weight of 750 gr and a barrel length of 1200 mm, and maintain the supersonic speed of the bullet at a distance of more than 3100 m.
Ukrainian Sniper Sets New World Record with 4 km Fatal Shot on Russian Soldier
The precision shot beats the previous record set by a Canadian sniper in Iraq in 2017.
www.kyivpost.com
Apparently a domestic sniper rifle called the “Lords Horizen” using a special Cartridge 12.7x114 "HL:
Cartridge 12.7x114 "HL" is designed to destroy lightly armored vehichles, anti-tank missile systems (ATGM), enemy firing points, as well as to conduct counter-sniper combat from distances unattainable to enemy calibers or laser anti-sniper systems.
The 12.7x114 "HL" cartridge can be used as a more efficient alternative to the 14.5x114 cartridge by simply replacing the barrels in appropriate anti-material rifles or machine guns. The set of combat characteristics of the cartridge 12.7x114 "HL" significantly exceeds 14.5x114 (up to 35%), has a smaller recoil momentum, allows the use of shorter barrels and reduces the total weight of the weapon up to 40%.
The bullet maintains supersonic speed over the distance of 2700 m.
Combined (simultaneous) equipment of the cartridge 12.7x114 "HL" with gunpowder with different combustion progression allows to reach 1100 m/s ar a match bullet weight of 750 gr and a barrel length of 1200 mm, and maintain the supersonic speed of the bullet at a distance of more than 3100 m.
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Digressing, but Ukrainian snipers who are still alive have acquired a lot of combat exposure. A new record was reportable reached this month, a Russian invader hit at a whopping 3800 meters.
Ukrainian Sniper Sets New World Record with 4 km Fatal Shot on Russian Soldier
The precision shot beats the previous record set by a Canadian sniper in Iraq in 2017.
If it's like the guy above posing for Instagram....doubt many are staying alive very long... and most of us have our bullshit flags out big time in regards to that shot......straight propaganda
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I’m sure it was 50 percent luck at that distance. I understand that the U.S. has trained many Ukrainian snipers, presumably SOCOM-based trainers:
www.cbsnews.com
That hunt continues, with both U.S. and Ukrainian-made weapons. Many use American scopes and American .338 caliber rifles, and the unit told CBS News that 90% of its ammunition is also from the U.S.
Commissar wears a U.S. flag patch on his uniform.
"Americans have helped Ukraine a lot and taught me a lot," he said. "I wear this as a sign of respect."
***
Why Ukraine's elite snipers, and their U.S. guns and ammo, are more vital than ever in the war with Russia
CBS News gets access to the secretive world of Ukraine's elite snipers and sees why they're so important in the war with Russia.
www.cbsnews.com
Commissar wears a U.S. flag patch on his uniform.
"Americans have helped Ukraine a lot and taught me a lot," he said. "I wear this as a sign of respect."
***
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