22ARC

TonyTheTiger

TonyTheTiger

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Feb 14, 2017
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#1
Are we not talking about this yet?
www.hornady.com

22 ARC - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

The 22 ARC brings you the exceptional power and performance of the 22-250 cartridge, all elegantly packed into the compact and versatile AR-15 platform.
www.hornady.com www.hornady.com
Yes, I'm aware of the 22 Grendel wildcat that's been around forever and is probably the ballistic twin of this. I almost bought a 22G but the stories of having to neck turn scared me off, plus lack of barrel maker options. A factory brass equivalent of it has me interested again.
 
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#2
TonyTheTiger said:
Are we not talking about this yet?
www.hornady.com

22 ARC - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

The 22 ARC brings you the exceptional power and performance of the 22-250 cartridge, all elegantly packed into the compact and versatile AR-15 platform.
www.hornady.com www.hornady.com
Yes, I'm aware of the 22 Grendel wildcat that's been around forever and is probably the ballistic twin of this. I almost bought a 22G but the stories of having to neck turn scared me off, plus lack of barrel maker options. A factory brass equivalent of it has me interested again.
Click to expand...
There's a thread in reloading section.
 
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#3
TonyTheTiger said:
Are we not talking about this yet?
www.hornady.com

22 ARC - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

The 22 ARC brings you the exceptional power and performance of the 22-250 cartridge, all elegantly packed into the compact and versatile AR-15 platform.
www.hornady.com www.hornady.com
Yes, I'm aware of the 22 Grendel wildcat that's been around forever and is probably the ballistic twin of this. I almost bought a 22G but the stories of having to neck turn scared me off, plus lack of barrel maker options. A factory brass equivalent of it has me interested again.
Click to expand...
I like your comment in 6MAX that a 22MAX launching high BC heavies would be interesting and use a 223 bolt face
 
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#6
Neat cartridge that would be hell on small varmints up to deer size game. If it’s as hot as a 22-250, go ahead and order a spare barrel cause you’ll need it in under 2k rounds.

While they were fun, I don’t miss my 22-250’s.
 
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#10
What does this provide over 224 Valkyrie, which was a flop?

TonyTheTiger said:
That's an impressive BC for a 62gr bullet. What's the special sauce?
Click to expand...
The secret is lying. Just kidding. The big cavity behind the tip allows it to increase its length and BC while staying light.

5FF313AE-0B1D-4E4A-B490-A31718D47883.jpeg
 
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#11
PappyM3 said:
What does this provide over 224 Valkyrie, which was a flop?


The secret is lying. Just kidding. The big cavity behind the tip allows it to increase its length and BC while staying light.

View attachment 8257425
Click to expand...
about all I’ve heard is that the Valkyrie is extremely finicky as far as grouping well. Everything Hornady has released since the 6.5 cm seems to be very forgiving. Hopefully this one is too.

Can a Valkyrie be reamed to 22arc?
 
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#12
newguy2k3v2 said:
about all I’ve heard is that the Valkyrie is extremely finicky as far as grouping well. Everything Hornady has released since the 6.5 cm seems to be very forgiving. Hopefully this one is too.

Can a Valkyrie be reamed to 22arc?
Click to expand...
Thanks.

22 ARC does seem neat if it can provide 22-250 like performance in such a small package.

But I’m more interested in these new VT bullets in 5.56 brass.
 
#16
This is the first I've heard of the 22 ARC, but I tend to stick to the basic food groups.. .223, 6.5G, .308, 6.5CM

Hopefully the 22ARC is more successful than the Valk, and Lapua starts making 22 and 6 ARC brass some time soon.
 
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#21
Jsp556 said:
Neat cartridge that would be hell on small varmints up to deer size game. If it’s as hot as a 22-250, go ahead and order a spare barrel cause you’ll need it in under 2k rounds.

While they were fun, I don’t miss my 22-250’s.
Click to expand...
This is not true. It's a lot more complicated than that. I posted a short explanation, well shorter than watching all the podcasts, on how this works in the reloading thread.

It's all about very efficient bullets that match or exceed the performance of the 22-250 - at the long ranges the 22-250 was designed for, with low 52k pressures for ARs and MV in the 3200s for bolt guns, with the same 52K pressures.

The result is very high performance with low pressures, longer barrel life and better accuracy.

Here's the link to my post:

www.snipershide.com

22 ARC

Not ground breaking, but should be a fun little cartridge. Probably gonna have to spin one up eventually. Yes, I know the Valkyrie exists, but it's all but dead because of poor support originally from Federal. Was already thinking about doing a 22 BR, but having factory ammo with support from a...
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com
 
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#22
Macht said:
@Ledzep Do you happen to have any barrel length/velocity charts for 22 ARC like the 6mm one you've posted in the past?
Click to expand...

Not yet. I'll look up data we have on a few barrel lengths but trends (velocity loss per inch) should be very comparable to the 6mm ARC. Very similar family of powders, actually will be quite a bit of overlap.
 
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#25
FredHammer said:
More than likely 25fps per inch. "Ish" LOL
Click to expand...
The short video below shows real time Garmin chrono numbers as the guy is shooting a bolt action with what I surmise must be the 67gr VT on the 22 ARC. It's showing 3200 and change. Oh, and Hornady always uses a 24-inch barrel for bolt velocities. From experience with the 6 ARC velocities should be less but similar in a 20-inch barreled gasser ~3000.

That starts at ~20-second mark - must be full screen to see the numbers on the Garmin :

 
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#27
Peterpan said:
if you want 22-250 performance buy a 22-250 or a 220 swift. the issue is, these people are trying to get a semi auto, specifically an ar-15 platform gun, to preform up to bolt action standards. the ar15 wasn’t designed for this, but it’s fun to watch people try and try to make it work.
Click to expand...
🤷‍♂️ With that line of thinking, we never should have converted flint lock muskets to use percussion caps. We never would have started using minié ball bullets. We never would have gotten accurized gas guns that have started to supplant bolt guns. Optimization, adaptation, and innovation are at the core of human advancement. Many new/updated things turn out to be failures, but we keep trying, in everything.

Why want something that is smaller, lighter, less recoil, but with nearly the same performance? Should we discount the attempt purely because it is, in part, to accommodate a particular platform?
 
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#28
Peterpan said:
if you want 22-250 performance buy a 22-250 or a 220 swift. the issue is, these people are trying to get a semi auto, specifically an ar-15 platform gun, to preform up to bolt action standards. the ar15 wasn’t designed for this, but it’s fun to watch people try and try to make it work.
Click to expand...
That's some fudd-ass dogmatic shit. Stay in the dark. We are pumping the light here!
 
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#31
TonyTheTiger said:
I got an email from Craddock about 22ARC barrels. On Hornady's website they have a list of partners on the development, Faxon and BA were on there, but no thanks.
Click to expand...
Perhaps the magical properties of this round will allow it to shoot well out of terrible barrels🤣
speaking of that Bear Creek is missing from this list!
 
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#32
TonyTheTiger said:
That's an impressive BC for a 62gr bullet. What's the special sauce?
Click to expand...
Special sauce is "light-for-length" design. Same external shape and dimensions as a heavy target bullet, say, an 88gr — but filled with a smaller amount of lead at 62gr to keep velocity up.

If one isn't careful, that's a recipe for making a bullet unstable in flight as air pressure on the nose tips it more easily cuz the weight is too rearward. Hornady, in their podcast about it, says they're aware of the issue and have designed it to avoid those detrimental physics.

Closest analogy I can think of is Lapua's 6.5 100gr Scenar target bullet, which was, literally, only about half filled with lead — but worked.
 
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#34
PappyM3 said:
🤷‍♂️ With that line of thinking, we never should have converted flint lock muskets to use percussion caps. We never would have started using minié ball bullets. We never would have gotten accurized gas guns that have started to supplant bolt guns. Optimization, adaptation, and innovation are at the core of human advancement. Many new/updated things turn out to be failures, but we keep trying, in everything.

Why want something that is smaller, lighter, less recoil, but with nearly the same performance? Should we discount the attempt purely because it is, in part, to accommodate a particular platform?
Click to expand...
well by all means keep trying the same thing and expecting different results. ur one of those ar15.com guys aren’t you.
 
#35
FredHammer said:
That's some fudd-ass dogmatic shit. Stay in the dark. We are pumping the light here!
Click to expand...
i’ve seen the light about 30 years ago when whitley necked down the 6.5 AA grendel. to 6mmAR your about a third of a century behind the light, man. but hornady is doing it so it must be cutting edge. haha.

let’s take a 6mm grendel and neuter it by 30 thou neck it down and not change the shoulder angle. Brilliant……. brilliant
 
#36
Peterpan said:
well by all means keep trying the same thing and expecting different results. ur one of those ar15.com guys aren’t you.
Click to expand...
🤣 Is that it?

Peterpan said:
i’ve seen the light about 30 years ago when whitley necked down the 6.5 AA grendel. to 6mmAR your about a third of a century behind the light, man. but hornady is doing it so it will have industry support and have more factory ammunition and barrel options it must be cutting edge. haha.

let’s take a 6mm grendel and neuter it by 30 thou neck it down and not change the shoulder angle. Brilliant……. brilliant
Click to expand...

Fixed it for you. Not everyone wants to run wildcats.

Also, apparently you’re a time traveler because 6.5 Grendel was not around 30 years ago.
 
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#41
PappyM3 said:
🤣 Is that it?



Fixed it for you. Not everyone wants to run wildcats.

Also, apparently you’re a time traveler because 6.5 Grendel was not around 30 years ago.
Click to expand...
the 6mm arc and 22 arc were wildcats until they weren’t. i don’t care if people want to shoot saami spec cartridges, just don’t try to blow smoke up my ass about how much faster or more efficient it is just to make yourself feel better.
 
#42
Peterpan said:
the 6mm arc and 22 arc were wildcats until they weren’t. i don’t care if people want to shoot saami spec cartridges, just don’t try to blow smoke up my ass about how much faster or more efficient it is just to make yourself feel better.
Click to expand...
And most people didn’t give a shit about them until they were no longer wildcats.

And don’t be blind with bias, Hornady has frequently been optimizing and making these cartridges more efficient compared to the similar wildcats. Now, how much optimization? Usually not much. Maybe not enough for someone already invested in previous similar cartridges to switch. But the optimizations are there.

It really boils down to availability though. Hornady releasing cartridges generally means they will be readily available along with tooling and barrels. It’s not even reloaders vs everyone else. There are tons of reloaders who avoid wildcats because they want readily available brass and factory loads they can get anywhere to supplement their pet loads.
 
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#43
With the specific example of Grendel variants, the only advantage (to dedicated reloaders) of the 22arc over the 224 AR/Grendel/lbc/predator/whatever is the availability of correctly stamped brass. Going from 6.5 Grendel to 224 predator is a single step through the 224 AR/Grendel/lbc/predator/whatever sizing die. Dies are available from Hornady. I bought mine when I bought my 224 pred barrel.

Having readily available factory ammunition for benchmarking, reclaiming brass, and plinking is a secondary advantage.
 
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#44
PappyM3 said:
And most people didn’t give a shit about them until they were no longer wildcats.

And don’t be blind with bias, Hornady has frequently been optimizing and making these cartridges more efficient compared to the similar wildcats. Now, how much optimization? Usually not much. Maybe not enough for someone already invested in previous similar cartridges to switch. But the optimizations are there.

It really boils down to availability though. Hornady releasing cartridges generally means they will be readily available along with tooling and barrels. It’s not even reloaders vs everyone else. There are tons of reloaders who avoid wildcats because they want readily available brass and factory loads they can get anywhere to supplement their pet loads.
Click to expand...
ok. well what are these optimizations and efficiency increases you speak of ethe 22arc has over a 22grendel?? or the 6arc over a 6mm grendel??

and i don’t give a shit what cartridge people shoot. i’m just tired of hornady and hornady fan boys blowing smoke up everyones ass about their “new and improved” cartridges
 
#45
Peterpan said:
ok. well what are these optimizations and efficiency increases you speak of ethe 22arc has over a 22grendel?? or the 6arc over a 6mm grendel??

and i don’t give a shit what cartridge people shoot. i’m just tired of hornady and hornady fan boys blowing smoke up everyones ass about their “new and improved” cartridges
Click to expand...
Don’t know and don’t give a shit, my criteria are can I find standard brass and how easy is it to get a barrel. For the vast majority of shooters the bar is even lower, can they buy a factory ammo and a factory rifle. Answering no to any of those limits you to a fraction of a percentage of shooters that want to put in the effort for an obscure cartridge.

Alexander Arms had the opportunity to bring them to market after creating the 6.5 Grendel, they didn’t, Hornady did. It’s like all the .260 guys bitching about the Creed, if someone had done right the first time Hornady would be loading that cartridge, not designing a new one.
 
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#46
Peterpan said:
ok. well what are these optimizations and efficiency increases you speak of ethe 22arc has over a 22grendel?? or the 6arc over a 6mm grendel??

and i don’t give a shit what cartridge people shoot. i’m just tired of hornady and hornady fan boys blowing smoke up everyones ass about their “new and improved” cartridges
Click to expand...

ARC is optimized for accuracy in a wider spectrum of chambers and function in all known magazines. Hornady introduced a cartridge that performs on par with SPC/Valkyrie without the massive accuracy issues. ARC does not outperform 22/6 Grendel ballistically. Further, since this is a Hornady product you can actually buy loaded ARC over the counter.
 
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#47
that’s right, the arc has NO optimizations or efficiency increases over a 6mm grendel. in fact it is at a slight disadvantage with a decreased powder capacity. hornady could have redesigned the shoulder of the case to make an actual improvement but didn’t. they just bumped the shoulder down 30 thou and make it to were most people have to hornady components. it’s just a marketing ploy to make people buy their sub par shit.
 
#48
CMP70306 said:
Don’t know and don’t give a shit, my criteria are can I find standard brass and how easy is it to get a barrel. For the vast majority of shooters the bar is even lower, can they buy a factory ammo and a factory rifle. Answering no to any of those limits you to a fraction of a percentage of shooters that want to put in the effort for an obscure cartridge.

Alexander Arms had the opportunity to bring them to market after creating the 6.5 Grendel, they didn’t, Hornady did. It’s like all the .260 guys bitching about the Creed, if someone had done right the first time Hornady would be loading that cartridge, not designing a new one.
Click to expand...
i can see the advantage of the 6.5 creed over a 260. esp in the mag length area but the arc has no advantages over the 6mm grendel ballistically. and hornady purposefully shorted the arc shoulder 30 thou instead of extending the shoulder of the case say 2 thou just to be greedy. they didn’t do shooters any favors. they just purposefully made it harder to use anyone else’s brass for the arc. which wouldn’t be that terrible if their brass wasn’t soft shit.
 
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#49
Peterpan said:
i can see the advantage of the 6.5 creed over a 260. esp in the mag length area but the arc has no advantages over the 6mm grendel ballistically. and hornady purposefully shorted the arc shoulder 30 thou instead of extending the shoulder of the case say 2 thou just to be greedy. they didn’t do shooters any favors. they just purposefully made it harder to use anyone else’s brass for the arc. which wouldn’t be that terrible if their brass wasn’t soft shit.
Click to expand...

But by the same token they also lost out on the vastly more profitable opportunity to sell loaded ammo to people with already existing firearms.

On top of that converting 6.5 Grendel to 6 ARC is as simple as running it through a sizing die and trimming it. There have been plenty of 6.5 Grendel shooters bitching that the ARC shooters bought all the brass so that theory doesn’t really hold water.
 
#50
Peterpan said:
that’s right, the arc has NO optimizations or efficiency increases over a 6mm grendel. in fact it is at a slight disadvantage with a decreased powder capacity. hornady could have redesigned the shoulder of the case to make an actual improvement but didn’t. they just bumped the shoulder down 30 thou and make it to were most people have to hornady components. it’s just a marketing ploy to make people buy their sub par shit.
Click to expand...

There's a Hornady employee that posts here and has stated why Hornady chose the case dimensions they did. We get that you're all poopy pants but maybe don't try to let it ruin your day so much.
 
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