22ARC

[hlee]

Even today, it still doesn't fit in an AR15, and by your own measurements, the 22CM weighs 3 lbs more than a similarly equipped ar15. Fuck, if the drop is what is keeping me from hitting the target, I'll get closer. Hint...

 

[Peterpan]

But by the same token they also lost out on the vastly more profitable opportunity to sell loaded ammo to people with already existing firearms.

On top of that converting 6.5 Grendel to 6 ARC is as simple as running it through a sizing die and trimming it. There have been plenty of 6.5 Grendel shooters bitching that the ARC shooters bought all the brass so that theory doesn’t really hold water.

why would they want to run something like lapua brass when they can get formed hornady ready to load haha and it’s not as simple as just running a piece of 6.5 grendel brass through a 6arc die. it’s necked down and the brass is shoulder bumped 30 thou using good lube.

 

[Peterpan]

There's a Hornady employee that posts here and has stated why Hornady chose the case dimensions they did. We get that you're all poopy pants but maybe don't try to let it ruin your day so much.

we all know why they did it. money money money

 

[PappyM3]

we all know why they did it. money money money

… well, they are a business, so…

But they are very good at getting industry support for cartridges, and that’s a good thing. 6.5 CM has been a massive success and it is a great all around cartridge. The PRCs seem to be a hit too. That doesn’t just happen because Hornady wants to make money. That happens when they’re a good product with wide ranging support. Otherwise they’d end up like 6.8 Western. And you don’t need to use Hornady brass or anything. Part of that industry support they cultivate means products from many different companies, on top of the rather good factory loads. I try not to be a fanboy of anything, but factory ELD-X/M loads have shot incredibly well in all my rifles.

Keep loading older wildcats that helped influence modern factory cartridges if you’d like. Have fun. But that doesn’t make Hornady offerings not worthwhile.

 

[BiggBeans]

we all know why they did it. money money money

well no shit. They are a business after all right?

 

[Gtscotty]

we all know why they did it. money money money

Please stop shitting up the thread.

 

[SixFive-O]

that’s right, the arc has NO optimizations or efficiency increases over a 6mm grendel. in fact it is at a slight disadvantage with a decreased powder capacity. hornady could have redesigned the shoulder of the case to make an actual improvement but didn’t. they just bumped the shoulder down 30 thou and make it to were most people have to hornady components. it’s just a marketing ploy to make people buy their sub par shit.

I'm guessing there are two reasons the 6A case is 0.30 shorter than the 65G:

1. They want to seat their long 6mm 108gr bullets to 2.260 mag length while keeping the bearing surface above the case shoulder; supposedly that's a built-in accuracy feature.

2. They wanted/needed to make the 6A case different enough from 65G so guys didn't jam 65G cartridges into 6A chambers. Greedy lawyers have created hassles for normal people in more ways than I can count....

Having said that, yes, I wish the 6A case was the same length as the 65G case, but it's not a deal-breaker.

 

[Tx_Aggie]

I'm guessing there are two reasons the 6A case is 0.30 shorter than the 65G:

1. They want to seat their long 6mm 108gr bullets to 2.260 mag length while keeping the bearing surface above the case shoulder; supposedly that's a built-in accuracy feature.

2. They wanted/needed to make the 6A case different enough from 65G so guys didn't jam 65G cartridges into 6A chambers. Greedy lawyers have created hassles for normal people in more ways than I can count....

Having said that, yes, I wish the 6A case was the same length as the 65G case, but it's not a deal-breaker.

I'll add another.

3. Robert Whitley and his quest to sue anyone who dared market a straight up 6mm Grendel, sorry "6mmAR."

I think that your #1 is the main reason for the development of the 6 ARC, but Whitley certainly gave a company like Hornady plenty of incentive to think outside the box a bit.

 

[MTSLW]

22 ARC is essentially a 22 Grendel, even uses the same gauges. 6ARC is I believe .030” shorter.

 

[Pat M.]

So, does anyone have any real data on what barrel life is going to be on the 22ARCs?? Thanks guys!!

 

[Cascade Hemi]

So, does anyone have any real data on what barrel life is going to be on the 22ARCs?? Thanks guys!!

As long as it takes for the next fad to come along.

 

[Pat M.]

As long as it takes for the next fad to come along.

I am not interested in "Fads" I am interested in ACTUAL barrel life.....

 

[newguy2k3v2]

I

I am not interested in "Fads" I am interested in ACTUAL barrel life.....

can’t remember where but I thought I saw a builder comment about 4k in regard to 22 grendel.

This one has me interested for a relatively cheap to shoot long range gas gun round that should at least be competitive for local matches. 6 arc has been really impressive but being able to run 88 eld or maybe 90 a tips with a more stable powder like h4350 or stabal 6.5, which I have a bunch of, is appealing.

 

[PappyM3]

I understand making precise chrome lined barrels is a particular skill that takes work. But I’d really like more custom barrel manufacturers to start offering QPQ nitriding as an option for extending barrel life to make some of these hot cartridges a little more usable.

 

[newguy2k3v2]

I understand making precise chrome lined barrels is a particular skill that takes work. But I’d really like more custom barrel manufacturers to start offering QPQ nitriding as an option for extending barrel life to make some of these hot cartridges a little more usable.

I listened to a podcast recently and this was brought up. It sounded like after testing, nitriding had minimal to negative effect on barrel life. You still get fire cracking but the increased hardness makes it more likely for pieces to break loose.

 

[PappyM3]

I listened to a podcast recently and this was brought up. It sounded like after testing, nitriding had minimal to negative effect on barrel life. You still get fire cracking but the increased hardness makes it more likely for pieces to break loose.

Interesting. Do you remember the podcast?

Testing I’ve read about (admittedly only with 5.56) showed long barrel life even with full auto regimens. I don’t have any that testing in the form of a study/paper to reference or anything. But I’m open to other info.

 

[newguy2k3v2]

Interesting. Do you remember the podcast?

Testing I’ve read about (admittedly only with 5.56) showed long barrel life even with full auto regimens. I don’t have any that testing in the form of a study/paper to reference or anything. But I’m open to other info.

I want to say it was one of Erik cortina’s believe the target podcasts with frank green. I’ve listened to quite a few of those lately. I could be wrong about the whole thing though also.

 

[newguy2k3v2]

Interesting. Do you remember the podcast?

Testing I’ve read about (admittedly only with 5.56) showed long barrel life even with full auto regimens. I don’t have any that testing in the form of a study/paper to reference or anything. But I’m open to other info.

Correction. It was the small arms solutions podcast with Monty of Centurion Arms. Around 45 min he’s talking about it.

 

[maddazzshooter]

ARC is optimized for accuracy in a wider spectrum of chambers and function in all known magazines. Hornady introduced a cartridge that performs on par with SPC/Valkyrie without the massive accuracy issues. ARC does not outperform 22/6 Grendel ballistically. Further, since this is a Hornady product you can actually buy loaded ARC over the counter.

If you guys would like more information on why Hornady need to step up look to White Oak Armory, where they show the destroyed BCGs because the chamber and cartridge Designs wasn't quite perfect. IMO, I believe that the chamber cut is probably the critical issue being faced... I just hope that the Industry don't go down the same road like the .224Valkyrie not understanding that it doesn't use 5.56/.223 burn rate powders.....Like the Valkyrie( & 6.5Cm) it uses powders in the 4350 burn rate and will require a rifle+2 gas system or you will continue to destroy the brass cases. I have two guns just waiting on barrels. I hope that Faxon is on board because I've had great success with their barrels ..( own six).. I hope this bring some insight.

 

[maddazzshooter]

corrections

If you guys would like more information on why Hornady needed to step up look to White Oak Armory, where they show the destroyed 6mm ARC BCGs because the chamber and cartridge Designs wasn't quite perfect. IMO, I believe that the chamber cut is probably the critical issue being faced... I just hope that the Industry don't go down the same road like the .224Valkyrie not understanding that it doesn't use 5.56/.223 burn rate powders.....Like the Valkyrie (& 6.5Cm) ( in a .224 bore)it uses powders in the 4350 burn rate and will require a rifle+2 gas system or you will continue to destroy the brass cases. I have two guns just waiting on barrels. I hope that Faxon is on board because I've had great success with their barrels ..( own six).. I hope this bring some insight.

 

[maddazzshooter]

Don’t know and don’t give a shit, my criteria are can I find standard brass and how easy is it to get a barrel. For the vast majority of shooters the bar is even lower, can they buy a factory ammo and a factory rifle. Answering no to any of those limits you to a fraction of a percentage of shooters that want to put in the effort for an obscure cartridge.

Alexander Arms had the opportunity to bring them to market after creating the 6.5 Grendel, they didn’t, Hornady did. It’s like all the .260 guys bitching about the Creed, if someone had done right the first time Hornady would be loading that cartridge, not designing a new one.

you make very good points... and I've a Hand loader for 35yrs!!

 

[Cascade Hemi]

If you guys would like more information on why Hornady need to step up look to White Oak Armory, where they show the destroyed BCGs because the chamber and cartridge Designs wasn't quite perfect. IMO, I believe that the chamber cut is probably the critical issue being faced... I just hope that the Industry don't go down the same road like the .224Valkyrie not understanding that it doesn't use 5.56/.223 burn rate powders.....Like the Valkyrie( & 6.5Cm) it uses powders in the 4350 burn rate and will require a rifle+2 gas system or you will continue to destroy the brass cases. I have two guns just waiting on barrels. I hope that Faxon is on board because I've had great success with their barrels ..( own six).. I hope this bring some insight.

John Holliger has been saying the same thing for the last 15 years. The market plainly disagrees with him... And you too.