New Berger 375 bullet 410 hybrid

Sleepertruckguy · Jan 10, 2024

Berger just announced a new cup and core bullet. Looks like a good alternative to the 390 Atip.

375 Caliber 410 Grain Hybrid Target Rifle Bullet

Rugged construction to survive extreme performance conditions. Unprecedented concentricity: less than .0003” runout using J4 Jackets. Hybrid ogive for tunes easy tuning and load development. Doppler verified - less than 1% B.C. variation! 375 Caliber 410 Grain Hybrid Target

bergerbullets.com

Rocketmandb · Jan 10, 2024

FFS - I see more load development in my future.

GIXXER2000 · Jan 10, 2024

I would try some but with a 1-7.5 Twist barrel I don't think the jacket would survive. Would be great in a 1-10 Twist.

DocUSMCRetired · Jan 11, 2024

GIXXER2000 said:
I would try some but with a 1-7.5 Twist barrel I don't think the jacket would survive. Would be great in a 1-10 Twist.

One of the first things we did was make sure they would work in the current generation of ELR Rifles. We tested them at 3300 FPS out of a 1:7 and the bullets showed no degradation of BC or precision. They will work just fine in your rifle.

GIXXER2000 · Jan 11, 2024

Wow that is great to hear.. Thank you for the information I will look to pick some.

BCX · Apr 21, 2024

Has anyone done any testing yet?

Rocketmandb · Apr 21, 2024

BCX said:
Has anyone done any testing yet?

I haven't seen them yet - they don't seem to have shipped.

DocUSMCRetired · Apr 22, 2024

The bullet is in production. Should be on the shelf July ish. But they are being made right now. Possibly earlier though. The initial run will likely be sold out in hours.

bulletbluesky · Apr 22, 2024

Sleepertruckguy said:
Berger just announced a new cup and core bullet. Looks like a good alternative to the 390 Atip.

375 Caliber 410 Grain Hybrid Target Rifle Bullet

Rugged construction to survive extreme performance conditions. Unprecedented concentricity: less than .0003” runout using J4 Jackets. Hybrid ogive for tunes easy tuning and load development. Doppler verified - less than 1% B.C. variation! 375 Caliber 410 Grain Hybrid Target

bergerbullets.com

Very impressive specs.
However, just noticed on that page the following (unhappy) formulation of benefits of BTs:

Don't say hop! until you jumped!

secondofangle2 · Apr 25, 2024

Heavier than ATIP with lower BC. Same price

These will appeal most to the guys who insist on yellow boxes

Im2bent · Apr 25, 2024

secondofangle2 said:
Heavier than ATIP with lower BC. Same price

These will appeal most to the guys who insist on yellow boxes

How is consistency of the Atips and are they ok with fast twist rates?

secondofangle2 · Apr 25, 2024

I have shot them in 10 and 12 twists and they shoot lights out. I don't think I'd go faster than 9. So not a good bullet to transition to if you're shooting long heavy solids in a 7 or 8 twist right now

DocUSMCRetired · Apr 25, 2024

Im2bent said:
How is consistency of the Atips and are they ok with fast twist rates?

In our testing, from 0 - 1800 yards.

The A-Tips have about a 3% shot to shot variation on BC.
The Sierra 350gr have a 0.5% shot to shot BC Variation.
The Lead Core Berger's have a 0.5% shot to shot BC Variation.
The Solid Berger's have about a 0.6% shot to shot BC Variation.
The Cutting Edge Gen 2 Lazer also have around a 0.5% shot to shot BC Variation.

This data is from me scouring the hundreds of PDMs we have developed over the years.

DocUSMCRetired · Apr 25, 2024

secondofangle2 said:
Heavier than ATIP with lower BC. Same price

These will appeal most to the guys who insist on yellow boxes

Based on the performance inconsistency of the A-tips. The probability of hit on a standard shooter goes from 50% first round at 1 mile to 31% just with the BC Variation of the A-Tips alone. (Target is a 20" round gong at 1 Mile). That is given ANY of the above mentioned Sierra, Berger, or Cutting Edge bullets. You are cutting your chances of a 1st round hit in half simply by using a bullet with a 3% BC variation bullet to bullet. That probably means a lot, to a lot of shooters.

secondofangle2 · Apr 25, 2024

"It's hard to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair

232593 · Jul 9, 2024

Anyone tested any of them yet with H50BMG, RL50, or 24N41?

NightStash · Jul 9, 2024

DocUSMCRetired said:
In our testing, from 0 - 1800 yards.

The A-Tips have about a 3% shot to shot variation on BC.

The Sierra 350gr have a 0.5% shot to shot BC Variation.

The Lead Core Berger's have a 0.5% shot to shot BC Variation.

The Solid Berger's have about a 0.6% shot to shot BC Variation.

The Cutting Edge Gen 2 Lazer also have around a 0.5% shot to shot BC Variation.

This data is from me scouring the hundreds of PDMs we have developed over the years.

Weird our "3% variation" A-Tips keep winning

DocUSMCRetired · Jul 29, 2024

NightStash said:
Weird our "3% variation" A-Tips keep winning

I don't really care what bullets people use, I simply share data. But I would love to see links to all these national records/titles they are taking over? Let me know when they catch up to the 20+ National Titles and WRs still held by companies like Sierra and others.

Taylorbok · Jul 29, 2024

Has anyone shot these bullets yet?

NightStash · Jul 30, 2024

DocUSMCRetired said:
I don't really care what bullets people use, I simply share data. But I would love to see links to all these national records/titles they are taking over? Let me know when they catch up to the 20+ National Titles and WRs still held by companies like Sierra and others.

The data was in reference to these large caliber 375 bullets as was my response. Show me the last ELR match won with either bullet.

DocUSMCRetired · Jul 31, 2024

NightStash said:
The data was in reference to these large caliber 375 bullets as was my response. Show me the last ELR match won with either bullet.

Berger Bullets have won WLSC, Nightforce ELR, and KO2M plus have done well in European ELR. Including being the first to hit 2 miles in a competition.

Taylorbok · Jul 31, 2024

DocUSMCRetired said:
Berger Bullets have won WLSC, Nightforce ELR, and KO2M plus have done well in European ELR. Including being the first to hit 2 miles in a competition.

Id bet more ELR matches have been won with A-tips vs Bergers. That being said the Berger Solids were basically unobtanium for a long time, maybe this new bullet will sway the crowds but I've still not heard from anyone who's shot it

NightStash · Jul 31, 2024

DocUSMCRetired said:
Berger Bullets have won WLSC, Nightforce ELR, and KO2M plus have done well in European ELR. Including being the first to hit 2 miles in a competition.

Again this was in reference to your "data" about the 375 bullets. So the last win was in 2017 Ko2M before the A-Tips were even available? Seems strange if they are that superior...

Im2bent · Jul 31, 2024

NightStash said:
Again this was in reference to your "data" about the 375 bullets. So the last win was in 2017 Ko2M before the A-Tips were even available? Seems strange if they are that superior...

Pretty sure no one is going to force you to use them.

NightStash · Jul 31, 2024

Im2bent said:
Pretty sure no one is going to force you to use them.

Correct and if they were actually 50% better more people probably would....

secondofangle2 · Aug 1, 2024

DocUSMCRetired said:
The bullet is in production. Should be on the shelf July ish. But they are being made right now. Possibly earlier though. The initial run will likely be sold out in hours.

It’s August 1. Have any been produced yet?

Schw15 · Aug 2, 2024

NightStash said:
Weird our "3% variation" A-Tips keep winning

What bc do you guys run on the a-tips?

secondofangle2 · Aug 2, 2024

Mine fly like the advertised g7 about .495

The CDCs on AB all are around .47-.48

NightStash · Aug 3, 2024

Schw15 said:
What bc do you guys run on the a-tips?

We have ave only ever ran a CDM.

Schw15 · Aug 3, 2024

DocUSMCRetired said:
Berger Bullets have won WLSC, Nightforce ELR, and KO2M plus have done well in European ELR. Including being the first to hit 2 miles in a competition.

Any new news on the release date of the new bullet?

secondofangle2 · Aug 3, 2024

It will be ready right about the time the ingenuity precision trickler is released

Tyler Kemp · Aug 16, 2024

I for one am excited to see if these expand. Because something is wrong in my brain.

ReturnFire · Aug 29, 2024

Has anyone shot these yet?

ReturnFire · Aug 29, 2024

I’m trying to decide if I should sell the 400 CEB’s that I have and commit to the lead core Berger’s or stick with the solids and learn the intricacies of shooting those

secondofangle2 · Aug 30, 2024

Abandon the solids

But try the beegers first

Taylorbok · Aug 30, 2024

ReturnFire said:
I’m trying to decide if I should sell the 400 CEB’s that I have and commit to the lead core Berger’s or stick with the solids and learn the intricacies of shooting those

I'd never shoot CEB's especially the 400 Lazers. You can send them to me for proper disposal.

BCX · Aug 30, 2024

Any word on the next production run of the 410s?

ReturnFire · Aug 31, 2024

I was able to find some in stock so I’ll be trying them out at the end of the month

Asgard1 · Sep 3, 2024

If the .375 bergers are as good as the 6mm 7mm .308 it will be very secessful. Have yet so see a hornady shoot as consistant as berger does in f class . A-tips may currently be doing OK in sports like elr. But still fall short when compaired to CEB in heavy and burgers in light class.

NightStash · Sep 3, 2024

Asgard1 said:
If the .375 bergers are as good as the 6mm 7mm .308 it will be very secessful. Have yet so see a hornady shoot as consistant as berger does in f class . A-tips may currently be doing OK in sports like elr. But still fall short when compaired to CEB in heavy and burgers in light class.

What do you mean by the A-Tips fall short of CEB? Do you mean leading the biggest ELR series by a large amount? I get messages after every match where guys watch A-tips perform looking to switch.

Asgard1 · Sep 3, 2024

NightStash said:
What do you mean by the A-Tips fall short of CEB? Do you mean leading the biggest ELR series by a large amount? I get messages after every match where guys watch A-tips perform looking to switch.

In the past 5 years in the United States how many elr matches did hornady win compaired to Ceb .

NightStash · Sep 3, 2024

They haven't even been available for five years lol. There is nothing wrong with CEB and they worked well for us also. There is major benefits to A-Tips though which is why we shoot them and many are now seeing making the switch.

Asgard1 · Sep 3, 2024

I am guessing a larger splash is more beneficial then having narrower vertical shot string.

bulletbluesky · Sep 4, 2024

Will they publish CDM in subsonic region (0.6-0.99 Mach) for this bullet?
In the case they tested it; ultra long range shooters would like to have it

NightStash · Sep 4, 2024

Asgard1 said:
I am guessing a larger splash is more beneficial then having narrower vertical shot string.

Keep believing that, we will keep winning.

bulletbluesky · Sep 6, 2024

Perhaps A-tips have lower limit of deformation than the others in comparative tests? If the tests of BC consistency were conducted close to max allowed loads and higher twist rates than necessary, that might explain 3% variance. Just a thought

Asgard1 · Sep 6, 2024

Bcsd is a variance from shot to shot so that's not the cause. It's generally somthing like ware, eroation, fire cracking or just inconsistency in bullet manufactoring

bulletbluesky · Sep 6, 2024

Asgard1 said:
Bcsd is a variance from shot to shot so that's not the cause. It's generally somthing like ware, eroation, fire cracking or just inconsistency in bullet manufactoring

Well, from shot to shot they could be differently deformed. Inconsistency in manufacturing could be another explanation. I wouldn't know because I never used A-tips (or anything else in .375 caliber)

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