Garmin vs. Labradar, what do you think is better for (ME).

fpgt72 · Jan 19, 2024

Read a few other posts and what a mess. This is all I want to know.

If you don't want to read all the dribble below.

Airguns, centerfire rifle, black powder large bore rifle, what works best, and by works gives me numbers on the screen. Easy setup, I don't mind a tablet or laptop coming along, but would rather not, record to a SD card or internal would be just fine, that can be downloaded later.

What works better?

Thats it,.....all I want. One one works the best.

Currently I own a "old style" Caldwell chrono, shoot between the hoops kind of thing. I have had to add extra LED lights to the thing as the ones it was built with are not good enough to work well on even a halfway cloudy day. That means an extra battery I need to haul around, along with a tripod for the thing. So I have a big box with the chrono, another big box with the tripod on top of all the other crap I have to take.

It is a big enough pain in the ass I just don't take it anymore. Just let where the holes go in the paper be my guide. Thing is I want that extra data. I shoot LOTS of things that are well over 100 years old, and I don't like to push them that hard. Getting FPS numbers is, at least I see it as where the rubber meets the road. The book might put you in the ballpark, but those numbers out of your rifle over a minimum of 5 rounds tells you the real deal.

What is more easy to setup, more easy to get good results, and not ERR-10 out of. Fuck I hate that Bang 985, Bang 992, Bang 843, Bang error.....ahhhh fuck you machine, I am going to aim lower and blow a 11mm hole right down the middle of you.

I want it to work well on everything from air guns to .30 centerfire to large black powder rifles.....and don't get me started on smoke and this stupid chronograph.....at least I think it is the smoke.

So what is better, I don't want an "old school" chrono where the bullet is measured between two "posts", I don't want anything strapped to the underside of the rifle, as I see that as flat fucking stupid. It is a me thing, don't bother trying to change my mind on it, if that is all you have to offer, thanks but no thanks. I will not buy it.

In my world both these devices are not cheap, so what will work with my stated needs, I will buy one when the snow melts.

Thanks.

Supersubes · Jan 19, 2024

The Garmins haven't been out very long but it certainly appears from the reviews that it isn't even a debate between it an the Labradar when it comes to setup and picking up shots. I’ve had a great Labradar that was trouble free for most guns but it would never pick up black powder, cartridge or muzzleloader. I just got a Garmin and it does this easily.

vh20 · Jan 19, 2024

I have old school, LR, and Garmin. I loved my LR and got along well with it...until the Garmin came out.

Garmin, no contest.

DMP · Jan 19, 2024

Garmin. Used everything thing else.

OREGUN · Jan 19, 2024

Garmin.

LR is not even a consideration.

Rio Precision Gunworks · Jan 19, 2024

Get the Garmin. Until something else comes out or gets update, it essentially put everything else in the stone ages. Pretty rare that a device releases and does this, but Garmin did it.

giumau1 · Jan 19, 2024

What I aleways needed from a chrono is
- Solid v0 measurement even in cluttered environments without rifle interference
- easy export of session numbers to record and manage sd data in the long term
- small form factor a plus

the Xero checks all the boxes brilliantly and more.
LabRadar was a pita in a echoes-prone environment, the app was clearly a beta release never really developed, measuring velocity downrange never worked.

powerspc · Jan 19, 2024

I have both. As with most things there are Pro's and Con's to both. I'm a huge fanboy of Garmin products so the Xero was a no-brainer for me. I love the compactness and portability of the Garmin and it appears to do an excellent job of picking up both rifle and pistol, so far no issues.

The downside of the Garmin for me is the difficulty in getting the data from the device to my computer. The Labradar use a microdisc which makes it simple to transfer the data. The Garmin requires you to use their app on your phone and upload it as a CSV file. That file then needs to be emailed to yourself and the CSV extracted from the email and converted from a CSV to Excel. This has to be done for each session or shot group.

So, if you are checking loads on you .338LM and you shoot five, 5 shot groups, each 5 shot group needs to be converted to a CSV, emailed, extracted and then converted to Excel. It's a lot of work. I thought that since it was a Garmin and could connect through Garmin Express that it would be simple to transfer/upload the data, unless there are some fixes or improvements (or I'm doing it wrong?) in the works, it is a very laborious process right now.

Someone in another thread had asked why would you want to move the data to your computer? 1). I like to keep all my load data online where it is easily accessible and can be backed up. 2). I like to graph certain data when I am looking for nodes, trends, etc. There are lots of reasons and if you want the data on a PC, I would not discard the Labradar. I have catalogued thousands (yes, thousands) of shots using Labradar from both rifle and pistol (sorry no air gun) and can count on 1 hand the number of shots it has missed.

That said, the answer for me was. . .both. I am using the Garmin mostly now just for pistol and the Labradar for rifle. For pistol I'm not quite as anal, as long as I have general understanding of where the velocity is on a certain load I'm happy. For rifle I need really solid data that I can easily access and return to frequently. YMMV.

308pirate · Jan 19, 2024

powerspc said:
The downside of the Garmin for me is the difficulty in getting the data from the device to my computer. The Labradar use a microdisc which makes it simple to transfer the data. The Garmin requires you to use their app on your phone and upload it as a CSV file. That file then needs to be emailed to yourself and the CSV extracted from the email and converted from a CSV to Excel. This has to be done for each session or shot group.

DeathBeforeDismount · Jan 19, 2024

I think the garmin and its not even close. I upgraded from a MS to a Andiscan over a year ago so been on the small form factor chrono for a while. The convenience of being able to throw in a pack, keep it with you while shooting and even shoot a stage with the chrono is unbeatable.

Labradar and MS are going to be dead as a company unless they come up with something new. Both are obsolete and as you can see buy what they are going for used, not worth much anymore.

I do get a chuckle at all the chads running around screaming garmin, making posts on FB and 50 threads here. This capability has existed for like 2 years with the andi. You would think this thing sucks your dick and licks your asshole they way they gush over it. Like a bunch of children when a new video game console comes out. Its a chrono FFS.

fpgt72 · Jan 19, 2024

powerspc said:
I have both. As with most things there are Pro's and Con's to both. I'm a huge fanboy of Garmin products so the Xero was a no-brainer for me. I love the compactness and portability of the Garmin and it appears to do an excellent job of picking up both rifle and pistol, so far no issues.

The downside of the Garmin for me is the difficulty in getting the data from the device to my computer. The Labradar use a microdisc which makes it simple to transfer the data. The Garmin requires you to use their app on your phone and upload it as a CSV file. That file then needs to be emailed to yourself and the CSV extracted from the email and converted from a CSV to Excel. This has to be done for each session or shot group.

So, if you are checking loads on you .338LM and you shoot five, 5 shot groups, each 5 shot group needs to be converted to a CSV, emailed, extracted and then converted to Excel. It's a lot of work. I thought that since it was a Garmin and could connect through Garmin Express that it would be simple to transfer/upload the data, unless there are some fixes or improvements (or I'm doing it wrong?) in the works, it is a very laborious process right now.

Someone in another thread had asked why would you want to move the data to your computer? 1). I like to keep all my load data online where it is easily accessible and can be backed up. 2). I like to graph certain data when I am looking for nodes, trends, etc. There are lots of reasons and if you want the data on a PC, I would not discard the Labradar. I have catalogued thousands (yes, thousands) of shots using Labradar from both rifle and pistol (sorry no air gun) and can count on 1 hand the number of shots it has missed.

That said, the answer for me was. . .both. I am using the Garmin mostly now just for pistol and the Labradar for rifle. For pistol I'm not quite as anal, as long as I have general understanding of where the velocity is on a certain load I'm happy. For rifle I need really solid data that I can easily access and return to frequently. YMMV.

I am not really a phone or tablet guy. Phones are too small for my old eyes, and I don't own a tablet worth a damn.

That does seem less then ideal, how you need to deal with the CSV file, but at least it is a standard format and working with it is easy.

Sounds like garmin is the way to go

thanks guys.

Zak Smith · Jan 19, 2024

powerspc said:
The Garmin requires you to use their app on your phone and upload it as a CSV file. That file then needs to be emailed to yourself and the CSV

Just a note, there are at least two easier/faster/simpler ways to do that. 1. Just airdrop it right to your computer, or if you don't use a mac, 2. Share it with yourself via Signal and then grab it on your computer side. If you rename the session or add a session note in your phone as you collect the data, then you could have a script on the computer side parse that .csv and automatically merge it with your existing spreadsheet or just rename the file to something more comprehensible than " session_1705682123.csv"

Garmin should add a "Global CSV export" for all sessions that have been synced to the phone.

And they should somehow defer the long syncs that send the update and prevent the update prompt on the device when the user is actually trying to get work done-- IE, not looking for new unexpected interruptions.

Garmin hit it out of the park with this unit.

powerspc · Jan 19, 2024

Zak Smith said:
Just a note, there are at least two easier/faster/simpler ways to do that. 1. Just airdrop it right to your computer, or if you don't use a mac, 2. Share it with yourself via Signal and then grab it on your computer side. If you rename the session or add a session note in your phone as you collect the data, then you could have a script on the computer side parse that .csv and automatically merge it with your existing spreadsheet or just rename the file to something more comprehensible than " session_1705682123.csv"

Garmin should add a "Global CSV export" for all sessions that have been synced to the phone.

And they should somehow defer the long syncs that send the update and prevent the update prompt on the device when the user is actually trying to get work done-- IE, not looking for new unexpected interruptions.

Garmin hit it out of the park with this unit.

Thank you! I fooled around with some conversion programs that were supposed to take the Garmin .FIT files to Excel but they didn't appear to work correctly. I'm not a MAC user so I'll look into Signal. In any case, there should be a way to just grab the files from Garmin Express or even easier, just connect the device to your PC and save them off. Even if Signal is another solution it's still, basically, a work around. My guess is that Garmin will remedy this in future updates. The device itself is excellent, it's only the interface with the PC that is problematic and even then, likely not a problem for many users!

pronelife · Jan 19, 2024

The LabRadar requires too much attention during sessions whereas the Garmin just works. The labradar required me to carry a tripod and external power bank/cables while hooking up the external trigger which I had to fiddle with when I switched from suppressed to non-suppressed. Took me 10 minutes to setup/tear down. The app would stop communicating with the radar unit bc they haven't figured out how to do bluetooth and told me for three years, "we're working on it." When I thought my LR was broken I wasn't sad at the thought of going back to a MagnetoSpeed.

The Garmin just works. Full Stop. Garmin spent last summer at key matches doing final testing and collecting feedback from the community. I don't ever remember hearing LabRadar attending matches let alone paying attention to feedback.

fpgt72 · Jan 23, 2024

pronelife said:
The LabRadar requires too much attention during sessions whereas the Garmin just works. The labradar required me to carry a tripod and external power bank/cables while hooking up the external trigger which I had to fiddle with when I switched from suppressed to non-suppressed. Took me 10 minutes to setup/tear down. The app would stop communicating with the radar unit bc they haven't figured out how to do bluetooth and told me for three years, "we're working on it." When I thought my LR was broken I wasn't sad at the thought of going back to a MagnetoSpeed.

The Garmin just works. Full Stop. Garmin spent last summer at key matches doing final testing and collecting feedback from the community. I don't ever remember hearing LabRadar attending matches let alone paying attention to feedback.

That speaks volumes to me. I like companies that listen to their customers. Come April, guessing the world will thaw by then it will be coming home with me.

Skunkworx · Jan 23, 2024

I used to be able to look beyond all the little Labradar quirks with the original app (big bulky fragile, have to use weird triggers or have special setups for suppressed weapons, the app, aiming it, connectivity issues, missed shots etc). It app was easy to use and intuitive. But when they released the latest app, it’s honestly god awful. So all those little quirks that were easy to overlook just became frustrating and annoying that I didn’t want to use my LR except when absolutely necessary.
Fast forward to the new garmin, I can toss it into my small range bag and it works right out of the box without the quirks or accessories. It just flat works. The app is easy to use as well.

fpgt72 · Jan 23, 2024

Skunkworx said:
I used to be able to look beyond all the little Labradar quirks with the original app (big bulky fragile, have to use weird triggers or have special setups for suppressed weapons, the app, aiming it, connectivity issues, missed shots etc). It app was easy to use and intuitive. But when they released the latest app, it’s honestly god awful. So all those little quirks that were easy to overlook just became frustrating and annoying that I didn’t want to use my LR except when absolutely necessary.
Fast forward to the new garmin, I can toss it into my small range bag and it works right out of the box without the quirks or accessories. It just flat works. The app is easy to use as well.

You are saying all the reasons I am leaving my existing chrono at home....less the triggers and such. It is just so big and bulky.

I think I have found a winner, something that will just work, and fit inside the bag I already haul with me, not taking two more bags to get the numbers I want.

Terry Cross · Jan 23, 2024

fpgt72 said:
Read a few other posts and what a mess. This is all I want to know.

If you don't want to read all the dribble below.

Airguns, centerfire rifle, black powder large bore rifle, what works best, and by works gives me numbers on the screen. Easy setup, I don't mind a tablet or laptop coming along, but would rather not, record to a SD card or internal would be just fine, that can be downloaded later.

What works better?

Thats it,.....all I want. One one works the best.

You didn't clarify whether you were referring to the LR LX or the original form LR when comparing to the Garmin.

Regardless of which LR you are wanting to compare, the concern will be the same.
The convenience of data transfer to your PC is a moot point if you are struggling to get data in the first place.

The original format LR can be picky AF. Depending on your range environment, you may have to add additional accessories to it in order to achieve a reasonable % of shot captures. Even then, there is a user learning curve that must be performed before you get somewhat decent range sessions.

If you are referring to LR's newly introduced (like just a week ago) LX model, I would be doubly concerned.
The only reason their LX model project exists is because Garmin time traveled into the future and allowed the shooting public to look at chronographs through a totally different metric.

Garmin should have named their new chrono the Death Star because it killed planet MS and planet LR.

LR never took any of the years long known issues and weaknesses with their existing product seriously. What makes you think they will mount a successful campaign with their LX model that they seemingly had to build from the ground up in just months?

Garmin is a mature company with lots of talent and business expertise. I would bet that they protected their IP via Patents, etc. before launching their C1. No one and I mean no one saw the C1 coming. If any gun queers (and we have a lot on this forum alone, me included) would have caught wind of even a rumor, there would have been a year old thread with 10,000 pages here.

LR would have to navigate around Garmin's exact approach to their C1 which may or may not have left any obvious alternate paths to success available. I would not want to bet LR built an equivalent mousetrap much less a better one given their history and the short time frame to execute.

My advice would be to snag the Garmin and follow Zak's guidance on moving your data.
Again, having data to move in the first place is kinda key.

.

Terry Cross · Jan 23, 2024

Mini-Rant.

Can't help but wonder how long it will be before Caldwell announces a tiny version of their Chinesium Velociradar?
You can bet your ass that Caldwell already has a Garmin C1 in the hands of one of their mainland China partners being reverse engineered.
You can equally bet your ass that they will have a budget priced POS version out soon because China (and Caldwell) gives zero fucks about Patents and I.P. protections.

.

FuhQ · Jan 23, 2024

Have had my MSv2 for a decade, this year… Have a Bulletseeker Mach4, and a Garmin Xero. Almost bought a LR before the Garmin was announced, but waited. Glad I did. LR sucks, everyone I know with one has to fight with it constantly, and LR treats their customers like shit, with virtually zero support after the sale.

Get the Garmin.

fpgt72 · Jan 23, 2024

Terry Cross said:
Mini-Rant.

Can't help but wonder how long it will be before Caldwell announces a tiny version of their Chinesium Velociradar?
You can bet your ass that Caldwell already has a Garmin C1 in the hands of one of their mainland China partners being reverse engineered.
You can equally bet your ass that they will have a budget priced POS version out soon because China (and Caldwell) gives zero fucks about Patents and I.P. protections.

.

Garmin has little to worry about me going to a "cheaper" version.

I am not one to say "i buy american or I buy nothing". I know that is not the real world. However when something is clearly stolen and a ripoff, I will stand my ground and buy "the real deal".

I also know a little bit about complex Chinese "electrical components". There are some things the chinese do very well, there are other things they don't, or can't. This is an example of thing they can't do.

vh20 · Jan 23, 2024

fpgt72 said:
I also know a little bit about complex Chinese "electrical components". There are some things the chinese do very well, there are other things they don't, or can't. This is an example of thing they can't do.

So is sharpening.

metroplex · Apr 24, 2024

I currently run the LabRadar only because I got it before the Garmin came out. the C1 looks more convenient to use which is one reason I wasn’t using it as much nor the magnetospeed

BugIn762 · Apr 24, 2024

Garmin.

Nail gun...... 235 fps velocity.

Daisy BB gun.......274 fps velocity.

My Garmin has only dropped two shots, Two times I forgot to start the session.

There is a you tube video showing a Labradar being slingshotted over the Garmin. It took several tries , but I think they got a 104 fps reading.

BugIn

cas6969 · Apr 24, 2024

The only problem I've had with the Garmin is it's so small I forget I have it with me and forget to use it.

johnnyvw · Apr 25, 2024

I hate technology that is difficult to use. That said, I found transfering the sessions from phone to PC to excell was stupid easy. Hell, it's more trouble to list stuff on ebay these days. Super compact size, has worked 100% so far (as long as I remember to start the session lol) I can't imagine a better, easier to use product. If they come out with a unit to compete with a Kestrel, they'll own that market too.
BTW, if you look at the Garmin website to see the products they make (like helicopter auto-pilot systems) you'll see how they can produce something like this. It was eye-opening for me, I thought they only made watches and GPS units. Those are the consumer level "toys".

LA260 · Apr 25, 2024

The only place I had issues with Garmin so far has been in an indoor pistol range. It would pick up random shots form the people shooting on both sides. Most people will not be using the C1 this way so it's not a big issue but something to keep in m ind.
Also, exporting a individual shot string is fine, but exporting a session is a hassle.

Snuby642 · Apr 25, 2024

I got to try the Garmin at an indoor rifle range.
Fast setup .
It wasn't hampered by centerfire 2 lanes away but I wasn't aware of what type of muzzle devices the others were using.

Got to get some funds cut loose.

Steel+Killer · Apr 28, 2024

When I first saw the thread title I thought "surely this guy must be joking" then I saw the date on the OP.

Asking this question now is like asking "What wheels would work best square or round?"

Thats how far the C1 blows the MS and the LR out the water.....IMO

I sold a guy at my hunt club my MS with all the accruements for $200 and I feel like the biggest dick / cocksucker because I really like this dude, but hey $200 bucks is $200 bucks!

johnnyvw · Apr 30, 2024

And he's thinking he saved $400 over buying a Garmin...so I wouldn't sweat it

metroplex · May 3, 2024

I just got my Garmin Xero C1, but knowing how all of my Garmin products are - they will work great for the first 1-2 years and then weird sh*t starts to happen. I've been using all types of Garmin products since 2006, even the C1's box looks just like what they have been using for the past 12+ years. Hah.

Zak Smith · May 3, 2024

???

I have a Garmin 401 that I've been actively using for close to 15 years.
I had a Garmin GPS 40 (circa mid 90's) that worked until it was lost or given away in the late 2000's.
I had a Garmin GPS III (c.a. late 90's) that worked until I ran it over with my truck.
I still have various car and motorcycle GPS's from 2005-2015 that still work fine.

metroplex · May 3, 2024

Zak Smith said:
???

I have a Garmin 401 that I've been actively using for close to 15 years.
I had a Garmin GPS 40 (circa mid 90's) that worked until it was lost or given away in the late 2000's.
I had a Garmin GPS III (c.a. late 90's) that worked until I ran it over with my truck.
I still have various car and motorcycle GPS's from 2005-2015 that still work fine.

Garmin Forerunner 101
Garmin Forerunner 305
Garmin Forerunner 910XT
Garmin Vivoactive HR
Garmin Swim
Garmin Forerunner 935
Garmin GLO
Garmin Index S2 (WiFi Scale)
Garmin cadence/speed sensor v1
Garmin cadence/speed sensor v2
Garmin heartrate strap sensors / triathlon version

I have a Garmin Forerunner 101 from 2006 that still works, but sometimes it will take forever for a GPS signal to lock on. Forerunner 305 still works, but sometimes it locks up necessitating a hard reset or soft reboot or some odd button combination to get going. Garmin Vivoactive HR that eventually just died and wouldn't turn on. Garmin Swim that has issues syncing. Garmin Forerunner 910XT that has been fine, but occasionally will take longer than normal to lock onto GPS or has issues syncing data. Garmin Forerunner 935 that I am currently using... works great for the first 1-2 years, then afterwards it may start an activity for 2 seconds and then locks up for 20 seconds, losing all fitness data during that time. Not to mention the myriad of small problems syncing or losing Bluetooth connection. Garmin GLO that sometimes has problems locking onto GPS.

There was also a known issue with the GPS chipsets that Garmin started using. It's been 12 years so I forget the name of it, but there was an issue where it can take several minutes for satellite lock. During the Detroit Marathon I saw a few people have issues with those specific models at the start line, whereas my Forerunner 910XT got a signal within seconds (it had the legacy chipset).

I have the current Garmin WiFi scale that is able to upload my weight via WiFi 95% of the time. The other 5% it takes forever to get a WiFi connection (with the router within 5 feet away) or forever to upload the data.

The Vivoactive HR was the only one that really died out of the blue during the first day of the COVID19 lock-down pandemic. I think it was from the obstacle course races I did (Tough Mudder / Warrior Dash etc) that eventually did it in.

The Garmin cadence speed sensor v1 would sometimes get flaky with the ANT+ signal. The v2 has worked well so far

So I will say this again, they all generally work fine for the first 1-2 years and then small issues start to show up based on my experience. Hopefully the Xero C1 remains problem-free.

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Garmin vs. Labradar, what do you think is better for (ME).

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