Entry Level Rifle Choice

hlpressley · Mar 28, 2024

Hello all. Looking for opinions from the more experienced. I have been a pistol shooter for many years and like to think I’m relatively decent. I understand the fundamentals of shooting. However, I have little to no precision rifle experience and have a strong desire to learn some long range techniques and skills. I plan to take a few classes and maybe even shoot a match or two down the road. I’d like to stay around $2000 +/- to start, including an optic. Pretty certain I’m going to go with something chambered in 6.5 CM, but I’m undecided on the actual rifle. What would you recommend and why?

Thanks in advance!

Keeper22 · Mar 28, 2024

Will the rifle be a play gun (matches and classes) or do you intend to maybe hunt with it?

hlpressley · Mar 28, 2024

Keeper22 said:
Will the rifle be a play gun (matches and classes) or do you intend to maybe hunt with it?

Good question. Likely no hunting. Land to hunt around my area is virtually impossible to find so I seldom do any hunting.

moaorbust · Mar 28, 2024

You can get a new Howa 6.5 barreled action for $500, a used Vortex PST2 MIL reticle for $600, a Boyds At-One stock for $300 and that leaves money for rings, base, rear bag and bipod. Perfect for starting and I had a similar setup. Your opinions may drastically change as your knowledge and skill increases. Focus on technique and you can buy the fancy stuff later.

Baron85 · Mar 28, 2024

If it’s matches and long range only and weight isn’t a concern, I would be looking at Tikkas. They offer prefit barrels, plenty of stocks/chassis for future upgrades and factory rifles are plenty accurate.

I would look at this one. https://www.eurooptic.com/Tikka-T3x-CTR-65-Creedmoor.aspx

Would make a great entry that can be upgraded to a rifle that won’t hold you back in the future or would be easy to sell if you wanted to upgrade in the future. Add a trigger spring, scope, and go shoot.

Edited to add that I have a tikka 223 that started as a basic varmint and I have slowly added and changed things over the years. It now rides in a XLR envy chassis, KRG Midas 2 stage trigger, PVA barrel. I have won a match with it and honestly love the rifle more than the older bighorn I had. My biggest complaint on the tikka is that proof doesn’t make a comp barrel prefit which is the biggest reason I built a lone peak so I could order barrels off the shelf.

tacoman69 · Mar 29, 2024

Tikka CTR or tikka stainless in a krg Bravo topped with a Trijicon tenmile 3x18 ffp (can be found around $1000 on dvor)

stevieb92 · Mar 29, 2024

Another good option other than the Tikka is a Bergara HMR or the Bergara HMR Pro. The HMR Pro has some additional features that increase the price a little over the standard HMR, but IMHO those upgrades are worth it. Here's a thread with more info on the HMR Pro in 6.5 Creedmoor that I put together while ago that you may find interesting.

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/bergara-hmr-pro-6-5-creedmoor-load-development.7181261/

If you can stretch your budget a little more over the price point of the HMR Pro, I'd move to the Zermatt Origin or an American Rifle Company CDG action with a prefit barrel.

Dead Eye Dick · Mar 29, 2024

OP you doing it backwards. Your first step, rather than purchasing a rifle is to take a good class, one that offers loaner rifles. There you can learn about the sport, learn what you like and don‘t like about the the rifles, learn if this is really your cup of tea.

In PRS it’s very easy to spend some very big bucks. Big bucks on equipment that in the end, you can’t use that winds up in the back of a closest and gun safe, collecting dust. And that money could have been spent on better equipment that you can really use.

There are many good classes offered, not cheap but real money savers in the end. A few I know of are Robert Brantley, @RobertB at Big River Ballistics in Central Mississippi, also offers classes at Arena Training Center in West Georgia, our own Frank Galli @Lowlight offers classes around the nation and particularly in the western half of the nation and K&M Training center in Western Tennessee. There are plenty of others, but these are the three good ones that I know of.

Newbie2020 · Mar 29, 2024

I highly recommend The Snipers Hide class with Frank Galli @Lowlight and Marc Taylor @Enough Said . I’ve been to several and they all have made me a better shooter.

I agree with the above post. The classes taught me how to properly use my equipment, but also taught me what equipment is needed vs just gucci. Also taught me what cartridges are better for the long range game. As well as positional shooting, etc.

EotS · Mar 29, 2024

Dead Eye Dick said:
OP you doing it backwards. Your first step, rather than purchasing a rifle is to take a good class, one that offers loaner rifles. There you can learn about the sport, learn what you like and don‘t like about the the rifles, learn if this is really your cup of tea.

In PRS it’s very easy to spend some very big bucks. Big bucks on equipment that in the end, you can’t use that winds up in the back of a closest and gun safe, collecting dust. And that money could have been spent on better equipment that you can really use.

There are many good classes offered, not cheap but real money savers in the end. A few I know of are Robert Brantley, @RobertB at Big River Ballistics in Central Mississippi, also offers classes at Arena Training Center in West Georgia, our own Frank Galli @Lowlight offers classes around the nation and particularly in the western half of the nation and K&M Training center in Western Tennessee. There are plenty of others, but these are the three good ones that I know of.

He'd still be fine with the Tikka. At most, he'll change stock configuration, which is easy. There's a long way you can take that gun before you can outshoot it.

I'm always in the "get something, and go shoot" catagory. Regardless of what he borrows and THEN buys what he THINKS he wants, he will absolutely change that setup very quickly.

I'd say get the Tikka. Snoop around and every once and a while you can find them for $999ish. Get whatever rings and scope and go shoot. That's the goal.
Then you can tweak. People get too hung up on nuanced aspects, and choke on overanalysis. Spend months, even years trying to assembke that one, PERFECT setup.
Meanwhile, a basic, off the shelf Howa from Academy and a bunch of ammo and just one class will teach you far more. Get a rifle, and go shoot.

The Tikka is priced right and he can go 2 directions. Upgrade it which will hold him for a while, and if/when he sells it to fund the next step, he can recoup most of his investment.
Or, if he dabbles on occasion, the Tikka will be fine decades from now.

Or, If he decides that precision shooting ain't his jam, he can sell the tikka and recoup most of his investment.

YotaEer · Mar 29, 2024

Tikka CTR is where I started and still a great recommendation, but I think the complete Aero solus rifles in the KRG bravo would be the new easy button.

More Options with the rem 700 pattern and savage shank barrel size.

1911Shootist · Mar 29, 2024

Go for the longest, heaviest barrel version you can find. If you're thinking about PRS, you'll want double the barrel weight most factory rifles come in to get it to balance on a bag in front of the magazine. More weight makes a rifle more pleasant to shoot and more inherently accurate anyway, so there is no downside to a super heavy barrel for a range gun.

For a $2k budget all in, I'd opt for:
Bergara HMR 6.5C
Scope: Vortex Strike Eagle 5-25 or Bushnell Match Pro ED in mrad.
Bipod: Harris SBRM
Bag: AG Schmedium heavy

Other rifles worth looking at, but will stretch your budget a bit: Tikka CTR, Aero Solus.

Dead Eye Dick · Mar 29, 2024

EotS said:
He'd still be fine with the Tikka. At most, he'll change stock configuration, which is easy. There's a long way you can take that gun before you can outshoot it.

Unfortunately I speak from experience. I had no plans to shoot Precision rifle when I purchased the RPR, found out about it later.

The Tikka the RPR and the Bergara, are all nice rifles. However, when the OP gets involved and decides what he really wanted was an Impact Precision in a Manner’s stock, his Tikka will be right where my RPR is. Gathering dust in the safe. It’s real easy to spend lots of bucks for stuff that gathers dust. Even now, I wished I had taken a class much earlier.

Now I always say, don’t buy till you try.

Ty21 · Mar 29, 2024

Just build a custom and be done with it

Lowlight · Mar 29, 2024

Tikka's are the best entry level rifle to jump into, I would highly recommend a tikka

On the class side there are a lot of different classes today because the competition guys who do ok will offer classes, but most of those are very specific. If you are not running their gear like them they don't help. They barely compromise from, "This is how I do it" vs building a solid base before deciding which direction you want to go.

Lots of the competition classes are tips and trick with no trade to anchor to them. We do basic classes and focus on the shooter. We build clones and make sure everyone has a solid foundation before moving forward. We can answer the Why and show you how to adapt your self and your equipment to the game, vs offering to spend your money on better stuff before you are ready.

DownhillFromHere · Mar 29, 2024

There is merit to trying before purchase, if feasible. OP shows as being from Charlotte... classes can be found at Coleman's Creek (an hour or so east of Charlotte near Ellerbe, requires student to have rifle). MDT team shooter Andy Slade offers classes through Rifleman's Path a couple hours' drive up near Gretna, VA (Andy is a great guy). A bit further out is Frontline Defense northeast of Louisburg. Just be aware: these things ain't cheap. It would be worth contacting any of them to see what loaners might be available, if any.

So OP has been advised to do everything from buying relatively inexpensive entry-level factory rifles to "just build a custom and be done with it." Here's the thing: no matter what he does, if he gets hooked on the discipline he will change rifles within 24 months. I don't know anyone who's been down this road who didn't. I went through two factory rifles and a custom before I settled on the Defiance- and Terminus-based rifles I have now (three different caliber barrels for the Defiance).

And that doesn't include the .22s. Truth be told - if I had to give up all my rifles but one, I'd keep my first-gen Vudoo without a doubt and enjoy the variety of competitions available for rimfire.... hitting steel at 400 yards is a hoot.

With that said - I agree that Tikka is a great factory offering, and that CTR @Baron85 linked at EuroOptic would be a solid choice. My only gripe with it is the rubber stock with a sling swivel stud as the only attachment point for a bipod. I started precision rifles with a pair of Tikkas, a T3X TAC A1 and a T3X Varmint. I had to attach a piece of rail to the TAC A1 to get a solid bipod mount, and the Varmint came out of its box and straight into an MDT LSS-XL chassis.

Unfortunately, $2k is a tight budget for a rifle and optic - because you'll also need

A bipod ($100-350 for entry level. Do Not get a $29.95 knockoff). There are plenty of threads here about bipods.
Decent rings for your optic ($125-150). Don't cheap out on rings. Just don't. Easy/reliable button is Vortex/Seekins (same rings) or MDT.
A rear bag or two, probably.

This is an expensive hobby. I've been shooting over 50 years, competing for over 30, playing with precision rifles for about 7. Centerfire rifle is by far the most expensive of all the disciplines I've tried. Enjoy, but be aware!

hlpressley · Mar 29, 2024

stevieb92 said:
Another good option other than the Tikka is a Bergara HMR or the Bergara HMR Pro. The HMR Pro has some additional features that increase the price a little over the standard HMR, but IMHO those upgrades are worth it. Here's a thread with more info on the HMR Pro in 6.5 Creedmoor that I put together while ago that you may find interesting.

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/bergara-hmr-pro-6-5-creedmoor-load-development.7181261/

If you can stretch your budget a little more over the price point of the HMR Pro, I'd move to the Zermatt Origin or an American Rifle Company CDG action with a prefit barrel.

Looks like a solid shooter! Would you say the Pro is worth the additional $500 over the regular HMR?

Lowlight · Mar 29, 2024

Tikka's have the least expensive upgrade path and are technically a medium action so it gives you a lot of flexibility even with loading.

Plus everyone has a chassis for it, and you can go light for hunting, swap barrels go heavy, and MDT loves Tikka as well KRG so you have the least expensive, least hassle of a rifle with the best path for the future

and you don't need a new trigger, a $10 Yo Dave is great, or the million other aftermarket parts, which are pennies on the dollar compared.

Yes I often loan rifles for our classes, we have demo guns, loaners, we can usually accommodate anyone's request to "try something" and that happens, I loan out about 1/2 dozen guns a year, but nothing beats your own, even if it is entry level to begin with.

hlpressley · Mar 29, 2024

Lowlight said:
Tikka's are the best entry level rifle to jump into, I would highly recommend a tikka

On the class side there are a lot of different classes today because the competition guys who do ok will offer classes, but most of those are very specific. If you are not running their gear like them they don't help. They barely compromise from, "This is how I do it" vs building a solid base before deciding which direction you want to go.

Lots of the competition classes are tips and trick with no trade to anchor to them. We do basic classes and focus on the shooter. We build clones and make sure everyone has a solid foundation before moving forward. We can answer the Why and show you how to adapt your self and your equipment to the game, vs offering to spend your money on better stuff before you are ready.

Thank you, sir! Where would I find more about your classes?

Lowlight · Mar 29, 2024

But if go to a Whizz Bang class with a Tikka, they will pretend you're not there. The competition class guys do not adapt to basic rifles well. They want what they shoot, a balanced and weighted rifle with an 8oz trigger so nothing moves. When you come with a 2LBS and it pulls you off target cause you can't do what they do off the props, you'll have a crappy experience.

Ask me how I know... I get dozens of dejected PRS wannabes who went to WhizzBang Guys for PRS and came away disappointed. Many do well because they personally do well and can't really replicate their actions unless it's just like them.

Lowlight · Mar 29, 2024

The training section,

Training Course Announcements

Local Matches can use this to advertise their local matches

www.snipershide.com

I do two sets of classes, a more basic competition class with Chris Way, which one of the best competitors on the circuit and I do basic Precision Class with Marc Taylor.

The Fort Morgan location is the best place for classes, we have a nice range, easy to get too, airport close by and several hotels within 15 minutes of the range. At Fort Morgan we have targets every 100 yards to 1825 yards, and 140 degree wind fan with targets every 15 degrees on a line.

Precision Rifle Training

www.snipershide.com

here. is Chris, getting ready for an NRL Hunter Match, he plans to shoot it all slung, with this rifle and 100gr varmint ammo so he is working the skills to do that.

We work the training in a variety of ways

And I don't care what you bring I will make it work

But the SH training Section, either SH or Riflekraft or the ones with Marc

david walter · Mar 29, 2024

This is the way.

Baron85 said:
If it’s matches and long range only and weight isn’t a concern, I would be looking at Tikkas. They offer prefit barrels, plenty of stocks/chassis for future upgrades and factory rifles are plenty accurate.

I would look at this one. https://www.eurooptic.com/Tikka-T3x-CTR-65-Creedmoor.aspx

Would make a great entry that can be upgraded to a rifle that won’t hold you back in the future or would be easy to sell if you wanted to upgrade in the future. Add a trigger spring, scope, and go shoot.

Edited to add that I have a tikka 223 that started as a basic varmint and I have slowly added and changed things over the years. It now rides in a XLR envy chassis, KRG Midas 2 stage trigger, PVA barrel. I have won a match with it and honestly love the rifle more than the older bighorn I had. My biggest complaint on the tikka is that proof doesn’t make a comp barrel prefit which is the biggest reason I built a lone peak so I could order barrels off the shelf.

kindabitey · Mar 29, 2024

Lowlight said:
But if go to a Whizz Bang class with a Tikka, they will pretend you're not there. The competition class guys do not adapt to basic rifles well. They want what they shoot, a balanced and weighted rifle with an 8oz trigger so nothing moves. When you come with a 2LBS and it pulls you off target cause you can't do what they do off the props, you'll have a crappy experience.

Ask me how I know... I get dozens of dejected PRS wannabes who went to WhizzBang Guys for PRS and came away disappointed. Many do well because they personally do well and can't really replicate their actions unless it's just like them.

I'd agree with that, other than Phil and Caylen. Phil has an affinity for Tikka. I've been to a few matches and heard the "yeah, but they're using a Tikka.." comments. Which makes me want to go buy one

Lowlight · Mar 29, 2024

Lastly cause I have to go to the range,

I created the fundamental checklist for classes, we use these sheets to show the shooter what we saw and why, and then move to correct it. I have a prone one, a tripod one, and an Instructor Level one.

The gun part is easy, once you taken a 1964 Winchester 30-06 with a 4x hunting to scope 1000 yards, everything else is butter.

MikeMiller · Mar 29, 2024

I teach one day classes in Florida designed to have local students come to multiple classes and improve as time goes on. That’s not practical for you. In my semi retired state that’s all I can the range for. lol

I know three very good schools that have week long classes designed to take you from knowing nothing to good rifleman

1. Franks class as already mentioned
2. Rifles only in Texas
3. Badlands in Oklahoma

Those three are top notch and you will learn how to run a rifle for practical use not just for gaming

Dawg66 · Mar 29, 2024

Plenty of very good input here, start with a rifle that has a guaranteed 1/2 moa from the manufacturer. That does separate wheat from chaf and pairs things down some. Tikka solid gun i would own one, but actually purchased a Sauer last year, it included in the box were the test results they performed on the rifle in factory before shipment. 1/2 moa. It was as advertised love the gun. The advice to go shot different guns before purchase is a brilliant idea ,one I will adhere to from here on out. Thanks to the hide again great information.

stevieb92 · Mar 29, 2024

hlpressley said:
Looks like a solid shooter! Would you say the Pro is worth the additional $500 over the regular HMR?

I believe the Pro is worth the additional funds over the regular HMR. However, you are getting close to the price of a custom (Origin or CDG). Others may not agree with me. Whichever rifle you choose, taking a class is, or should be at the top of your "to do" list. Lots of good options already mentioned.

https://www.bergara.online/us/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2019/03/HMR_vs_HMR_Pro.pdf

1911Shootist · Mar 29, 2024

DownhillFromHere said:
So OP has been advised to do everything from buying relatively inexpensive entry-level factory rifles to "just build a custom and be done with it." Here's the thing: no matter what he does, if he gets hooked on the discipline he will change rifles within 24 months. I don't know anyone who's been down this road who didn't.

Spot on. Even if you try before you buy, you're likely going to have biases that won't exist in a month or a year. You don't know what you will like until you get some time on various platforms to figure out what you like or dislike.

Either buy into a platform that is easy to flip when you "grow" out of it (HMR/CTR), or buy into a platform that can grow with you (customs).

kthomas · Mar 29, 2024

Dead Eye Dick said:
OP you doing it backwards. Your first step, rather than purchasing a rifle is to take a good class, one that offers loaner rifles. There you can learn about the sport, learn what you like and don‘t like about the the rifles, learn if this is really your cup of tea.

In PRS it’s very easy to spend some very big bucks. Big bucks on equipment that in the end, you can’t use that winds up in the back of a closest and gun safe, collecting dust. And that money could have been spent on better equipment that you can really use.

There are many good classes offered, not cheap but real money savers in the end. A few I know of are Robert Brantley, @RobertB at Big River Ballistics in Central Mississippi, also offers classes at Arena Training Center in West Georgia, our own Frank Galli @Lowlight offers classes around the nation and particularly in the western half of the nation and K&M Training center in Western Tennessee. There are plenty of others, but these are the three good ones that I know of.

Rifles Only absolutely should be in this conversation as well. Their focus on fundamentals is, IMO, the best way to get started in the sport.

kthomas · Mar 29, 2024

1911Shootist said:
Spot on. Even if you try before you buy, you're likely going to have biases that won't exist in a month or a year. You don't know what you will like until you get some time on various platforms to figure out what you like or dislike.

Either buy into a platform that is easy to flip when you "grow" out of it (HMR/CTR), or buy into a platform that can grow with you (customs).

True.

My rifle went through many iterations until I got it to it's current form, which its been in for about 6 years now.

david walter · Mar 29, 2024

Do we even want to open the Pandora's Box of getting a rimfire in the same pattern as your centerfire to practice and better learn to call the wind?

Oops, my bad.

stanley_white · Mar 29, 2024

While you get more aftermarket support with the Tikka, you also risk Beretta customer service, and get a two piece bolt that requires a pin for disassembly.

All of the above is why I chose Howa.

-Stan

1911Shootist · Mar 29, 2024

david walter said:
Do we even want to open the Pandora's Box of getting a rimfire in the same pattern as your centerfire to practice and better learn to call the wind?

Oops, my bad.

Bolt lift, stroke, feeding, and close is so different between CF & RF, as long as the chassis is set up similarly, overall weight and length is similar, I don't see much benefit in common footprint. Matches are won on building solid positions, reading wind, and reading hits/misses to tailor accordingly, not really rifle handling.

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