How tight do you shoulder your rifle?

RMS65 · May 30, 2024

Today messing around with some bolt action 223s and 6.5 CM between 500 and 625 yards i found that the consistent accuracy i had at 320 disappeared. Strelock worked sometimes. Id get in the ball park most times. It seems the differential was shoulder pressure.

Shooting a lot of spring airguns I'm used to hold sensitive rifles. I imagine this is similar, that the amount of pressure isn't as important as the consistency.
Am I wrong?

ArTeeKay · May 30, 2024

The typical rule of thumb is to pull the rifle into your shoulder with approximately the same force as the weight of the rifle. Very light, or extremely heavy rifles don't follow this rule. Aim for 12-20 pounds of pressure, something like lifting two gallons of milk with one arm. Consistency is important, but you've got to apply enough force to make sure the rifle doesn't take advantage of any tiny imperfections in your position as well.

Jgore · May 31, 2024

I took a precision class by one of the best and was instructed it should be 15lbs.

RMS65 · May 31, 2024

Thanks all. I try more shoulder. I was shooting prone on my deck, using the bottom rail as a rest. Theres nothing to push against to help seat the gun in my shoulder.
Do you pull the gun into your shoulder with your trigger hand alone or do use both hands.

I also struggle with cheek weld. Shooting prone at the downward angles I shoot makes it tough to get a good cheek weld. The 223 has no riser on it and its impossible for me to get a good cheek weld. I need to make or set up a bench to shoot off of. I don't remember having fit issues with these rifles when seated at a bench.
I need to find me class..

hafejd30 · May 31, 2024

100% on a class. You will learn a lot

You can build up a cheek rest if your chassis/stock isn’t adjustable. Some camo form or vet tape with something under it to get the height works fine.

Best to use a front rest with a stop or bipod/tripod. Allows you to slightly load the rifle. Gives it something to push slightly into. I don’t personally pull with either hand into my shoulder. I use my shoulder to take the slack up in the rifle

D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷ · May 31, 2024

I focus on loading the bipod and the rest just happens.

Turkeytider · May 31, 2024

Doesn`t this include the whole free recoil vs. supported stock approaches to recoil management? I believe an F class bipod ( skipod ) lends itself to free recoil or minimal shoulder contact because it`s designed to slide backwards with recoil. Going to try shooting with an F class bipod soon with my .223.

Maurygold · May 31, 2024

There should be a slight pressure from your shoulder into the gun.

Free recoil talk is for benchrest and f class only.

higginsworksforme · May 31, 2024

Jgore said:
I took a precision class by one of the best and was instructed it should be 15lbs.

I think we took the same class.

Jgore · May 31, 2024

higginsworksforme said:
I think we took the same class.

CS

higginsworksforme · May 31, 2024

Jgore said:
CS

Mine was in North Carolina a couple years ago. Someone had a Vudoo in an M40A1 stock. It looked killer.

Baron23 · May 31, 2024

IMO, you cannot be totally consistent unless you can cheek the comb and still be in the eye box. If that requires an adjustable comb or a pad then that’s what it is.

Jgore · May 31, 2024

higginsworksforme said:
Mine was in North Carolina a couple years ago. Someone had a Vudoo in an M40A1 stock. It looked killer.

Chris Simmons

RMS65 · May 31, 2024

hafejd30 said:
100% on a class. You will learn a lot

You can build up a cheek rest if your chassis/stock isn’t adjustable. Some camo form or vet tape with something under it to get the height works fine.

Best to use a front rest with a stop or bipod/tripod. Allows you to slightly load the rifle. Gives it something to push slightly into. I don’t personally pull with either hand into my shoulder. I use my shoulder to take the slack up in the rifle

Thanks. On the bench I've experimented with preloading the bipod by clamping a bar to the cement shooting bench. I found the bar had to be perfectly parallel to the target board. Otherwise the gun would move off target during recoil. I skipped the bar and learned to slightly load the bipod and comb with cheek pressure. It worked pretty well but that was only 200 yards.

My situation now is different. I'm shooting plates to practice for deer, woodchuck and coyote. They appear anywhere the field from 250 yards out in a 120 degree arc. I wont have the time to set up a bipod stop in any random direction. I think I need to work on the cheek weld.

hafejd30 · May 31, 2024

RMS65 said:
Thanks. On the bench I've experimented with preloading the bipod by clamping a bar to the cement shooting bench. I found the bar had to be perfectly parallel to the target board. Otherwise the gun would move off target during recoil. I skipped the bar and learned to slightly load the bipod and comb with cheek pressure. It worked pretty well but that was only 200 yards.

My situation now is different. I'm shooting plates to practice for deer, woodchuck and coyote. They appear anywhere the field from 250 yards out in a 120 degree arc. I wont have the time to set up a bipod stop in any random direction. I think I need to work on the cheek weld.

Being comfortable behind the rifle is the main concern. Having proper LOP and cheek weld will help with fatigue and controlling the rifle under recoil as well. Nothing worse than fighting the rifle the whole time you shoot

You don’t need a rest or bipod. I just think it works better for me. I also shoot off backpacks, bags sometimes a rolled up shirt

Many times I’ll wrap my left arm under the stock of the rifle and rest my hand on my right shoulder/bicep. Cradles the stock and allows me to take out the slack.

You also don’t need a bipod stop. The stop I refer to above is like what’s on my eagle fclass rest. Contacts the front of the forend. You just slightly load the slack out of the bipod. Just the feet contacting the ground or bench will be enough to do that.

Don’t load so hard the gun wants to walk away. I used to do that myself until I learned a bit more. Used to cause myself issues with fatigue and eye strain fighting the rifle rather than being relaxed behind it. Now I feel like I could take a nap and wake up with the crosshairs still on my target

308pirate · May 31, 2024

Jgore said:
I took a precision class by one of the best and was instructed it should be 15lbs.

That kind of instruction is next to useless. Nobody can tell how many pounds of force one is pulling a rifle in.

diggler1833 · May 31, 2024

I'm in the camp that consistency is key, same with loading the bipod. I've messed around for a while, and have come to the conclusion *for me* that lightly moderate pressure works best with my body. I doubt it is "15 lbs", but I am going to ask who pulls their rifle into a scale to ensure that they are in fact, pulling 15 pounds?

I get less jump off the target when I mash the rifle into my shoulder and load the shit out of my bipod, but I get more uncalled fliers. Same thing when I go too light on my hold and load, because the bipod will start hopping around (especially if a lighter rifle).

Shooting off of a front rest and good rear bag, I favor a lighter hold more than the heavier one.

YMMV

hero's machine · Jun 1, 2024

Think about the physics of what's happening at the release of the sear.

The sear drops and the pin goes in motion. It's this moment where any of your bad habits are affecting the shot....it's coming up on your last inputs.

Assuming you had a perfect break:

The rifle begins its recoil event. What can cause the muzzle and chamber to lose the angular relationship that you wanted it to fly at? If the stock does not recoil parallel to the bore....the bullet may leave at an altered angle. This could be from the stock hitting your shoulder lower or higher than normal. It could be from barrel pressure....there's about a zillion potentials in that time and space.

Your job is to minimize the variables you can control and time those you cannot (heart rate, occular clarity...etc). There's a lot of ways to shoot clean and they all revolve around the right break and recoil events.

Maurygold · Jun 1, 2024

Jgore said:
I took a precision class by one of the best and was instructed it should be 15lbs.

308pirate said:

That kind of instruction is next to useless. Nobody can tell how many pounds of force one is pulling a rifle in.

Click to expand...

Absolutely senseless reference. Would not be happy to take a class where this real advice.

OREGUN · Jun 1, 2024

There is no singular answer. Some guns need a little more (gas guns particularly and also lighter guns, in my experience). Likewise, cheek weld. I shoot some of my best groups with the cheek piece removed from my gun entirely as I tend to push with my chin and send shots left if my face is touching the gun at all. Diggler probably has the best answer above. Anyone giving a hard number in pounds is trying to make an easy answer for a group with widely ranging experience levels to latch onto.

Haney · Jun 1, 2024

308pirate said:
That kind of instruction is next to useless. Nobody can tell how many pounds of force one is pulling a rifle in.

I can .

Emerson0311 · Jun 1, 2024

If a rifle recoils straight back into the shoulder the shoulder pressure matters a lot less. Usually shooters are not square to the rifle so the recoil rotates the Rt handed shooter to the right. Usually the bore is above the butt stock so the muzzle rises as the recoil begins. Heavy rifles with flat forends and butt stocks shooting light recoiling cartridges mask these effects. Geometry that is ignored in favour of what is visually appealing to the owner can be a very significant part of the problem. There are people that can freehand paint, shoot, fabricate steel etc. but not near as many as they think.

308pirate · Jun 1, 2024

Haney said:
I can .

Be quiet dumbass

Ichi · Jun 1, 2024

You might find some useful info in these videos.

Hickswr · Jun 1, 2024

The same shoulder pressure that produced good groups at 320 yards will also produce good groups at 600 yards. Something else is going on with your setup- inconsistent bullets, wind, mirage, etc.

Once the bullet exits the barrel, shoulder pressure is irrelevant. Unless you are a magician, there’s absolutely nothing YOU can do to physically affect the bullet after 300 yards, or after 1-foot for that matter. We can’t throw curveballs with bullets.

Lowlight · Jun 1, 2024

Baron23 · Jun 1, 2024

hafejd30 said:
Being comfortable behind the rifle is the main concern. Having proper LOP and cheek weld will help with fatigue and controlling the rifle under recoil as well. Nothing worse than fighting the rifle the whole time you shoot

You don’t need a rest or bipod. I just think it works better for me. I also shoot off backpacks, bags sometimes a rolled up shirt

Many times I’ll wrap my left arm under the stock of the rifle and rest my hand on my right shoulder/bicep. Cradles the stock and allows me to take out the slack.

You also don’t need a bipod stop. The stop I refer to above is like what’s on my eagle fclass rest. Contacts the front of the forend. You just slightly load the slack out of the bipod. Just the feet contacting the ground or bench will be enough to do that.

Don’t load so hard the gun wants to walk away. I used to do that myself until I learned a bit more. Used to cause myself issues with fatigue and eye strain fighting the rifle rather than being relaxed behind it. Now I feel like I could take a nap and wake up with the crosshairs still on my target

Not relevant to hunting, but as for building a prone position and loading a bipod, see this short vid by Phil Velayo. This is still applicable to shooting off of a bench also...just get a bit higher of a seat and lean into the gun or go all the way to modified prone laying out your upper body on the bench.

hafejd30 · Jun 1, 2024

Baron23 said:
Not relevant to hunting, but as for building a prone position and loading a bipod, see this short vid by Phil Velayo. This is still applicable to shooting off of a bench also...just get a bit higher of a seat and lean into the gun or go all the way to modified prone laying out your upper body on the bench.

That’s the exact video I watched a while back when I determined I was loading the bipod to much

diggler1833 · Jun 1, 2024

308pirate said:
Be quiet dumbass

There is always one...

brianf · Jun 1, 2024

RMS65 said:
Thanks. On the bench I've experimented with preloading the bipod by clamping a bar to the cement shooting bench. I found the bar had to be perfectly parallel to the target board. Otherwise the gun would move off target during recoil. I skipped the bar and learned to slightly load the bipod and comb with cheek pressure. It worked pretty well but that was only 200 yards.

My situation now is different. I'm shooting plates to practice for deer, woodchuck and coyote. They appear anywhere the field from 250 yards out in a 120 degree arc. I wont have the time to set up a bipod stop in any random direction. I think I need to work on the cheek weld.

The idea of slamming the bipod into a “stop” was started by someone and it’s just not correct.

The rifle will move no matter what you do and the more you fight it the less repetitive it becomes. And repetitive creates minimal pos to poi changes

Loading the bipod has been bastardized, all you do is take the slack out of the legs.

With anything that has decent recoil staying on the “bull” at 100 is not happening all day every day

Like others have said, your best bet is taking a class. The amount you spend you’ll save in ammo trying to figure it out alone.

Baron23 · Jun 1, 2024

Ichi said:
You might find some useful info in these videos.

Oh heck...I posted and didn't notice you had already posted the same vid and more.

I really like that Phil Velayo (who's content I really enjoy) and Chris Wray (whose content I also really enjoy) are very congruent to each other.

And I agree that "loading the bipod" has tended to be exaggerated beyond its real purpose of just taking out the slack.

Cheers

45-90 · Jun 1, 2024

Find what is most consistent for you, ...and do the same exact thing over and over, with the same pressure applied.

RMS65 · Jun 3, 2024

brianf said:
The idea of slamming the bipod into a “stop” was started by someone and it’s just not correct.

The rifle will move no matter what you do and the more you fight it the less repetitive it becomes. And repetitive creates minimal pos to poi changes

Loading the bipod has been bastardized, all you do is take the slack out of the legs.

With anything that has decent recoil staying on the “bull” at 100 is not happening all day every day

Like others have said, your best bet is taking a class. The amount you spend you’ll save in ammo trying to figure it out alone.

I never said anything about slamming the bipod into anything. Bipods, or at least my Harris skid with almost no pressure on it. I've learned that preloading my 223 Varmint 2 MOA with straight downward cheek pressure from it's natural position to my desired POA produces the most consistent results. Thank you for your input.

Bottom line. I need to learn how to shoot well without a bipod or traditional bench rest.

Rio Precision Gunworks · Jun 4, 2024

Ummm.....wut??

-The thumb over top (C-Clamp) is pretty much the standard that is taught at any high level CQB course.
-You can build a bridge or use the technique literally anytime you're using a bipod.
-Except wet surfaces (and sometimes even then), you can either always make a bridge or be very close. The point of the bridge excercise is to illustrate to students how your body interacts with the rifle. As in, the rear bag is not what's actually supporting the rifle. Your body and the bipod is supporting the rifle and the rear bag is for adjustments.
-If using that technique is inducing POI shifts with your gas gun, you're either doing it wrong or your forearm has so much flex and/or your gas block is so tight on clearance that you need to rebuild the rifle.

I'd suggest taking some updated courses with your carbine, both precision and patrol/cqb if your information is this dated. As well as with your bolt gun.

Haney · Jun 4, 2024

308pirate said:
Be quiet dumbass

Sorry to get your pink shorts in a twist there fatty .

308pirate · Jun 4, 2024

Haney said:
Sorry to get your pink shorts in a twist there fatty .

You sure like to look at men's asses. Do you like gladiator movies?

xxflyingturtlexx · Jun 4, 2024

hafejd30 said:
Being comfortable behind the rifle is the main concern. Having proper LOP and cheek weld will help with fatigue and controlling the rifle under recoil as well. Nothing worse than fighting the rifle the whole time you shoot

You don’t need a rest or bipod. I just think it works better for me. I also shoot off backpacks, bags sometimes a rolled up shirt

Many times I’ll wrap my left arm under the stock of the rifle and rest my hand on my right shoulder/bicep. Cradles the stock and allows me to take out the slack.

You also don’t need a bipod stop. The stop I refer to above is like what’s on my eagle fclass rest. Contacts the front of the forend. You just slightly load the slack out of the bipod. Just the feet contacting the ground or bench will be enough to do that.

Don’t load so hard the gun wants to walk away. I used to do that myself until I learned a bit more. Used to cause myself issues with fatigue and eye strain fighting the rifle rather than being relaxed behind it. Now I feel like I could take a nap and wake up with the crosshairs still on my target

Man, you couldnt have said it better on being comfortable behind the gun.

Honestly i hardly load the bipod anymore. It has its merit but nowadays i see it waste of energy.

I wont even get into the 12-15lbs pull mental gymnastics on shoulder pull

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How tight do you shoulder your rifle?

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