Lapua .223 Brass Broke in Half

There were some separated 223 cases in a batch I made from about 6 or 7 years ago. It took a little bit of figuring out that my sizing die got a small build up of old lube and some other crud in the shoulder area of the die. This caused the shoulder bump to increase.

After the die had been setup, and the first batch of brass had been run through it, I made the mistake of not measuring them the next time I used the die. Cleaning the sizing die became a routine after that.
 
I once did an experiment where I let the brass grow without trimming it. I bumped the shoulders .002” and after 20-25 reloads the cases began to separate. The case length grew by more than .050” at that point.

Bumping the shoulder .010” during every reload cycle will cause rapid case growth and once the case grows more than .050” you can expect separation.
 
Interesting observation. I recently was reusing some brass from an ar15 barrel with soft extention. In 400rds headspace grew .015 or something like that. I wast measuring I was just sizing and shooting for four firings. I had sized cases sitting in an MTM box and some were drastically and noticeably longer than others. All of those were starting g to separate. I am culled 3 or 4 more out of that bunch now at 10x reloaded.

I separated some 6.5 creed in 3 or 4x seting up a chamber to close on a feild gauge and accidentally sizing .007. I mistakenly thought field was smaller than no go.
 
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Interesting observation. I recently was reusing some brass from an ar15 barrel with soft extention. In 400rds headspace grew .015 or something like that. I wast measuring I was just sizing and shooting for four firings. I had sized cases sitting in an MTM box and some were drastically and noticeably longer than others. All of those were starting g to separate. I am culled 3 or 4 more out of that bunch now at 10x reloaded.

I separated some 6.5 creed in 3 or 4x seting up a chamber to close on a feild gauge and accidentally sizing .007. I mistakenly thought field was smaller than no go.

If a case isn’t stretching it’s not going to separate. How to keep a case from stretching: Use moderate loads, bump the shoulder just enough to close the bolt easily, keep the body of the case as close to chamber dimensions as possible.

So that means we should neck size and FL size sparingly. The problem is this does not produce field reliable ammo. Also, with this method primer pockets will fail before the case head will. I think we should understand the brass we are working with and balance case head life with primer pocket life while producing ammo that chambers reliably.
 
Wow. @Clay McGill took this thread totally off the rails! Anyone reading this could easily get confused and since this type of failure seems to show up every so often this might be a good time to explain what really happens to brass on firing and on resizing so I'll take a shot at it. Just went through this on a different forum.

First off, let's make it clear that this failure is not caused by overpressure although pressure does play a very small part on when it was going to occur.

The cartridge cases have several functions. It holds powder. It holds primer and bullet. A portion of the case is a pressure vessel (this is the unsupported portion from case head to the chamber, it serves as gasket material between the unsupported portion and the barrel to prevent high pressure hot gas from escaping from the chamber.

To allow chambering the cartridge must have clearance axial and longitudinally to fit and allow the bolt/breech to close. The longitudinal clearance is headspace clearance and is the dimension of interest. It is not the headspace dimension shown the SAAMI chamber drawing. It is the difference between the chamber headspace dimension and the cartridge datum dimension for the shoulder.

On firing the cartridge body, shoulder and neck begin to expand axially to fill the chamber and longitudinally to fill the headspace. as the body expands the shoulder and neck towards the the head and as the body contacts the chamber wall the pressure rises and begins to form a new shoulder from the old shoulder and neck. Ultimately the case and barrel expand [edit]axial radially and longitudinally together under the full pressure of the powder charge. As the pressure decays the barrel and brass contract with the barrel returning to its original size and the brass just a slight bit less (at normal firing pressures) than the barrel. After firing the case body will be larger in diameter and the datum dimension of the case will be longer than the original case. The overall length of the case will normally be shorter. The overall volume of the brass will be greater and for this to happen the the case must become thinner somewhere. This typically offers in the thinnest portion of the body.

When the fired case is resized in a full length sizing die the first thing that happens is the body begins to be squeezed back towards the SAAMI max case diameters. This squeezing causes the datum dimension to increase, beyond what the chamber can accept so the shoulder portion of the die then reshapes the shoulder and the body to forma new shoulder of the correct datum dimension and some of the original shoulder ends up in a lengthened neck. Ultimately the case length increases. In some cases the expander ball lengthens the case and will require excessive setback of the shoulder and ultimately some stretching of the body of the case.

As for over pressure (say 55KSI to 75KSI) the ultimate pressure containment is the chamber and the case head. The axial growth of the cartridge is restrained by the receiver/barrel and the bolt lugs. The additional pressure in the high strength reciever, barrel and bolt does not allow for a significant amount of additional growth but there is additional growth.

The reloader has little control in brass movement due to the body resizing other than by minimizing differences in chamber/die dimensions but he does have control over the amount of headspace clearance on firing and excessive clearance leads to excessive growth and ultimately enough thinning to lead to failure as shown on the original post. Lower pressure loading might have allowed for a few more firings but the brass would have failed at the same way at some point if sized the same way each time.

Hopefully this will help with understanding what we've been trying to explain about how the case sizing caused the failure of the OP's case.
 
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Wow. @Clay McGill took this thread totally off the rails! Anyone reading this could easily get confused and since this type of failure seems to show up every so often this might be a good time to explain what really happens to brass on firing and on resizing so I'll take a shot at it. Just went through this on a different forum.

First off, let's make it clear that this failure is not caused by overpressure although pressure does play a very small part on when it was going to occur.

The cartridge cases have several functions. It holds powder. It holds primer and bullet. A portion of the case is a pressure vessel (this is the unsupported portion from case head to the chamber, it serves as gasket material between the unsupported portion and the barrel to prevent high pressure hot gas from escaping from the chamber.

To allow chambering the cartridge must have clearance axial and longitudinally to fit and allow the bolt/breech to close. The longitudinal clearance is headspace clearance and is the dimension of interest. It is not the headspace dimension shown the SAAMI chamber drawing. It is the difference between the chamber headspace dimension and the cartridge datum dimension for the shoulder.

On firing the cartridge body, shoulder and neck begin to expand axially to fill the chamber and longitudinally to fill the headspace. as the body expands the shoulder and neck towards the the head and as the body contacts the chamber wall the pressure rises and begins to form a new shoulder from the old shoulder and neck. Ultimately the case and barrel expand axial and longitudinally together under the full pressure of the powder charge. As the pressure decays the barrel and brass contract with the barrel returning to its original size and the brass just a slight bit less (at normal firing pressures) than the barrel. After firing the case body will be larger in diameter and the datum dimension of the case will be longer than the original case. The overall length of the case will normally be shorter. The overall volume of the brass will be greater and for this to happen the the case must become thinner somewhere. This typically offers in the thinnest portion of the body.

When the fired case is resized in a full length sizing die the first thing that happens is the body begins to be squeezed back towards the SAAMI max case diameters. This squeezing causes the datum dimension to increase, beyond what the chamber can accept so the shoulder portion of the die then reshapes the shoulder and the body to forma new shoulder of the correct datum dimension and some of the original shoulder ends up in a lengthened neck. Ultimately the case length increases. In some cases the expander ball lengthens the case and will require excessive setback of the shoulder and ultimately some stretching of the body of the case.

As for over pressure (say 55KSI to 75KSI) the ultimate pressure containment is the chamber and the case head. The axial growth of the cartridge is restrained by the receiver/barrel and the bolt lugs. The additional pressure in the high strength reciever, barrel and bolt does not allow for a significant amount of additional growth but there is additional growth.

The reloader has little control in brass movement due to the body resizing other than by minimizing differences in chamber/die dimensions but he does have control over the amount of headspace clearance on firing and excessive clearance leads to excessive growth and ultimately enough thinning to lead to failure as shown on the original post. Lower pressure loading might have allowed for a few more firings but the brass would have failed at the same way at some point if sized the same way each time.

Hopefully this will help with understanding what we've been trying to explain about how the case sizing caused the failure of the OP's case.
I was literally just about to say that. :p


kidding. I bump back .002 and got my first handload that didnt chamber last week. Give and take of minimal bumping, right? Better brass life over reliable cartridge. No idea how this case didnt size properly.
 
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It's possible the base didn't get resized enough. Sure it's one of yours?
Me? yeah 100% mine. I know what batch it was from too. I usually size with imperial sizing wax, wipe it all off and then measure.

This batch was with Horny One Shot and I know I didnt measure each one... So maybe I do know but not really.
 
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In addition…

Small base does tend to size the shoulder and the body diameter smaller than a regular FL die. Redding body dies tend to size those areas larger than a standard FL die.

RCBS AR dies are small base dies and will return the brass to factory dimensions. They will cause the most case length growth. Redding body die plus neck die will produce reliable ammo with the least amount of case length growth.

Hot loads will stretch cases more than moderate loads. It’s because the high pressure will cause the brass to fill the chamber more completely. Also, moderate loads may not force the case head against the breech face. I’ve had brass come out of the gun with zero change in shoulder length after firing because the pressure was low. This could explain why supercorndogs’ brass is still alive.
 
Wow. @Clay McGill took this thread totally off the rails! Anyone reading this could easily get confused and since this type of failure seems to show up every so often this might be a good time to explain what really happens to brass on firing and on resizing so I'll take a shot at it. Just went through this on a different forum.

First off, let's make it clear that this failure is not caused by overpressure although pressure does play a very small part on when it was going to occur.

The cartridge cases have several functions. It holds powder. It holds primer and bullet. A portion of the case is a pressure vessel (this is the unsupported portion from case head to the chamber, it serves as gasket material between the unsupported portion and the barrel to prevent high pressure hot gas from escaping from the chamber.

To allow chambering the cartridge must have clearance axial and longitudinally to fit and allow the bolt/breech to close. The longitudinal clearance is headspace clearance and is the dimension of interest. It is not the headspace dimension shown the SAAMI chamber drawing. It is the difference between the chamber headspace dimension and the cartridge datum dimension for the shoulder.

On firing the cartridge body, shoulder and neck begin to expand axially to fill the chamber and longitudinally to fill the headspace. as the body expands the shoulder and neck towards the the head and as the body contacts the chamber wall the pressure rises and begins to form a new shoulder from the old shoulder and neck. Ultimately the case and barrel expand axial and longitudinally together under the full pressure of the powder charge. As the pressure decays the barrel and brass contract with the barrel returning to its original size and the brass just a slight bit less (at normal firing pressures) than the barrel. After firing the case body will be larger in diameter and the datum dimension of the case will be longer than the original case. The overall length of the case will normally be shorter. The overall volume of the brass will be greater and for this to happen the the case must become thinner somewhere. This typically offers in the thinnest portion of the body.

When the fired case is resized in a full length sizing die the first thing that happens is the body begins to be squeezed back towards the SAAMI max case diameters. This squeezing causes the datum dimension to increase, beyond what the chamber can accept so the shoulder portion of the die then reshapes the shoulder and the body to forma new shoulder of the correct datum dimension and some of the original shoulder ends up in a lengthened neck. Ultimately the case length increases. In some cases the expander ball lengthens the case and will require excessive setback of the shoulder and ultimately some stretching of the body of the case.

As for over pressure (say 55KSI to 75KSI) the ultimate pressure containment is the chamber and the case head. The axial growth of the cartridge is restrained by the receiver/barrel and the bolt lugs. The additional pressure in the high strength reciever, barrel and bolt does not allow for a significant amount of additional growth but there is additional growth.

The reloader has little control in brass movement due to the body resizing other than by minimizing differences in chamber/die dimensions but he does have control over the amount of headspace clearance on firing and excessive clearance leads to excessive growth and ultimately enough thinning to lead to failure as shown on the original post. Lower pressure loading might have allowed for a few more firings but the brass would have failed at the same way at some point if sized the same way each time.

Hopefully this will help with understanding what we've been trying to explain about how the case sizing caused the failure of the OP's case.
Well said! Especially the gasket part.

This is another reason to anneal. It softens the upper part of the case so the brass will stretch more in that direction.
 
I've just culled two 22 Nosler cases, fired MANY times (?) in an AR with just a hint of this line, 360 degrees around.
No indication with a borescope. Maybe I could section and measure.
Or, I could load and fire until they fail- - NOPE.

Hard to see in picture but the line is there.
Funny-Line.jpg
 
I've just culled two 22 Nosler cases, fired MANY times (?) in an AR with just a hint of this line, 360 degrees around.
No indication with a borescope. Maybe I could section and measure.
Or, I could load and fire until they fail- - NOPE.

Hard to see in picture but the line is there.
View attachment 8438194
Unfortunately I’d cull that whole lot…😢
 
I’d bet you can get at least a few more out of it.
I have no idea how many firings these two had.
I shoot some for practice, then some more the next trip, then load up about 80 for a match.
These have accounted for about 700 shots, some more than others. Now down to 93 out of the original 100 (mostly pockets).
Did cull one with a 0.200 line that didn't want to chamber easily.
Culls are used to calibrate my annealer.
I've got my brass sorted in about 100 piece lots. I keep track of NEW, once fired, but beyond that I cull out pockets that feel loose.
OR, any unexplained visual indications.
I could shoot until failure just to give you guys some more data :)