Yes, I saw significant ES/SD drop when switching from flame to AMP in both my 6.5cm and 6GT loads. Lapua and Alpha brass specifically. I assume its better neck tension control, as nothing else was changed.
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And they would be wrong in that case. Its ok though, no one is perfect.Look, I know you're an AMP fanboy, but dude just wants to know if annealing will help him/her with case neck cracking. If they wanted PhD level knowledge on metallurgy, they'd go take a college course. Don't make it more complicated than needed.
Below, straight up from AMP themselves (the makers of your god tier annealer), if you're looking for a low cost annealer, they recommend a gas flame based option.
https://www.ampannealing.com/articles/52/salt-bath-annealing--does-it-work-/
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Got any data to back that up? or you gonna stick with "trust me it works"Yes, I saw significant ES/SD drop when switching from flame to AMP in both my 6.5cm and 6GT loads. Lapua and Alpha brass specifically. I assume its better neck tension control, as nothing else was changed.
SD calcs imply (require) the existence data ...Got any data to back that up? or you gonna stick with "trust me it works"
Got any data to back that up? or you gonna stick with "trust me it works"
I may as well counter and say my limited testing showed no improvement.
EXACTLY MY POINTGot any data to back that up? or you gonna stick with "trust me it don't work"
Flame annealing lowered my SD/ES and Im seeing consistent groups but not smaller ones. I have no data to back that up.
For starters 6-8 SD or ES? it can't be both.Exactly. I dont record every shot I take. My loads before the amp were around 6-8 SD/ES. Post AMP I am around 3-4.
This wont show up unless you are shooting small targets far away, but its does add up to points gained over a season. To me, That matters.
I don’t know why this is so hard to figure out. Surely someone has done some unbiased testing on this and translated it to English so that a second grader can understand it?
I am far too dumb to understand all this science; I shoot a nail gun for a living.
I just want to know if flame annealing will make my brass last more firings without the necks cracking.
It seems like the only people saying you have to buy an AMP are
1) the people selling an AMP
2) the people who already bought an AMP
That’s a bit of a red flag to my uneducated little brain….but maybe they are right.
Ok you PHDs and people who took a college class about metal can go back to your internet fight now.
It was invented buy guys basically using candles...Annealing is understood to have been discovered as a heat treatment in the Middle Ages, around the 12th century. The word likely originated from the Middle English term “anelen”, meaning to set on fire or to bake.
LOL. Do you just go around believing everything, everyone says on forums?This isn't a point.
SD. ES tightened up as well but i dont remember numbers off the top of my head. I think my ES is around 12-15 with the 3.5SD loads. Thats a .04gr spread and the difference between about a kernal or 2 of H4350.For starters 6-8 SD or ES? it can't be both.
How many rounds is this over?
What is your sample size?
Don't forget I asked for legitimate testing.
The point you are trying to make is sloppy.LOL. Do you just go around believing everything, everyone says on forums?
I have not annealed brass before and want to start. What are some decent low cost annealers?
Alternatively, I got all of the parts for a DIY annealer (Elfster's) following this youtube:
Anybody use this DIY annealer?
What is the point of even mentioning that it lowered your ES/SD if you don't want to share the numbers to back it up?SD. ES tightened up as well but i dont remember numbers off the top of my head. I think my ES is around 12-15 with the 3.5SD loads. Thats a .04gr spread and the difference between about a kernal or 2 of H4350.
Over hundreds of shots of each. I dont even start to trust SD/ES until I have already 30 shots to measure. I ran the Andiscan so the whole barrel break in had a chrono attached, as well as whenever I zero and verify dope before a match.
Believe it , don't believe it, I dont really give a shit. My goal was never to placate people on here and spoon feed them all my data. Its just observation over many thousands of rounds.
The point you are trying to make is sloppy.
SD calcs imply (require) the existence data ...
You are absolutely essential to this conversation.repeat.
I DGAF if you want to pick a fight bwith DBDM,You are absolutely essential to this conversation.
I have not annealed brass before and want to start. What are some decent low cost annealers?
Alternatively, I got all of the parts for a DIY annealer (Elfster's) following this youtube:
Anybody use this DIY annealer?
that's awesome... man, it's been that long since i made that video already!?!? time goes by wayyyy to fast!
yeah, there is a reason why we developed the EP 2.0 annealer over the DIY model in the above quoted video I made years ago. #1 it will adjust from 5.7x27 to 50bmgs, rim or no rim, and adjust in less than 30 seconds without having to add or remove any parts. It is purely based in the KISS method and its hard to explain until you use the simplicity of the EP 2.0 annealer.... Also, there is a reason there is no hopper = IMO a hopper is not needed... Why? If we are talking a case feeder, then maybe yes.... but a hopper is not a case feeder. Regardless if you're using a hopper or single feeding a fence like the EP 2.0 annealer, you still need to pick up the brass, orientate the brass in a particular direction, and feed the hopper or single feed fence. A hopper doesn't make the process of annealing faster. If 1 pc of brass takes 6 seconds to be annealed, then hopper or no hopper it still takes 6 seconds. By the time I orientate brass in the right direction, fill up a hopper, and swap out parts, I'm already 1/4 of the way into annealing with the EP 2.0 annealer. All you're doing is filling up a hopper and its not like you can go mow the grass while you have a flame running in your reloading room anyway. On average it might take approx ~6 seconds per anneal x 100pcs of brass = 600 seconds = 10 minutes of your reloading process per 100pcs = not that much time in the reloading process. Now a case feeder would be a whole different story where you are throwing in handful of brass and the machine does all of the work, but this makes it very difficult to do when it comes to the adjustability of the EP 2.0 annealer from 5.7x28 to 50 bmg, rim or no rim, = once again = KISS (keep it simple stupid). $239.99 gets ya everything you need to anneal other than the propane tank... there is a ton more info here too www.epintegrations.com
with that said, i actually talked to the guys with AMP at the last shot show and had a wonderful conversation with them... and not naming names, but 1 of the 2 actually told me if you would like to start with annealing, then "if you want to anneal and dabble with it flame annealing is the right way to go" & "there is no debate that you can or can not anneal with a flame, if you can melt the case with a flame then at some point you can anneal with it"... I'll agree that the AMP is a wonderful product and obviously produces an amazing anneal as mentioned in the video link below, but not everyone has $1675+ to drop on an annealer..... personally i like to use the "glow method" and using "test brass" to set up my flame based annealers = quick and simple and 100% will notice a more consistent headspace bump when testing resizing with bump gauges from pc to pc of brass resized & can be tested for a consistent bump.
anyone that has tried to bump back stubborn lake city brass (especially 7.62x51) with and without annealing will KNOW that annealing defiantly helps with the resizing process 100%... not only does annealing help with cracked necks and just better brass longevity, but IMO the #1 reason why I anneal is for more consistent headspace bumps.
this is how i use ANY flame based annealer & how it get it going and set up in approx a min using test brass... hope this helps
You are wasting your time. That's a whole lot of effort for unpredictable results and zero confirmation of brass end state.
Flame annealing is pissing in the wind without testing on the backend that can be repeated and would require constant checking/confirmation as flame temp, position, gas pressure, case time all vary from batch to batch.
The un educated will still buy into the bullshit, which is is good for sales.
Thank God you finally posted something that wasn't a meth infused manefesto.You again blowing smoke