Suppressors POI shift experiment with suppressors

Ape_Factory · Mar 4, 2024

Had a few experiments lined up and one of them was to see what sort of POI shift I'd get by removal and reattachment of the suppressor on my 308 bolt rifle. I took it a bit further and not only did that but added a second suppressor into the mix. Short answer, really no significant shift. The wind likely had a far greater effect than removing and attaching the suppressor.

I took three shots on the left target, suppressor on. I removed and re-installed the suppressor and shot three more on the right target. Should have kept the same target but I wasn't sure I'd remember which shot was which. I then took off the first suppressor and installed the second suppressor, same right target.

Suppressor 1 was the Diligent Defense Enticer S
Suppressor 2 was the Huxwrx Flow 762
Muzzle device was the Huxwrx muzzle brake
The Diligent Defense has the new Huxwrx HUB QD mount installed

First three shots with the DD (blue)

Rest of the shots, right target. DD is blue, Huxwrx is yellow. Winds were gusting north of 15mph at times.

I was surprised the shift, if any, was so small, especially between the two suppressors. I've always liked the Huxwrx mounts and even their new HUB mount is stupid easy to attach and remove. It's not the lightest at around 4oz. but the extra weight doesn't seem to be affecting accuracy at all.

Bluedog82 · Mar 6, 2024

Most quality cans and mounts these days exhibit minimal POI shift. Thanks for posting this!

KYAggie · Mar 6, 2024

For grins you should find someone with a AAC7.62SD with a 51T mount and repeat the experiment. My guess is the POI will be different every time you mount the suppressor an likely not minute of human at 100 yards.

ZA206 · Mar 6, 2024

I ran the same experiment with my 24” 6.5CM Proof CF barreled Aero AR10…
AAC SDN6 that’s been Ecco’d with a Keymo HUB mount & Silencerco SAKER with a Keymo HUB mount.
Basically 1.3 MIL shift down for the SAKER and 1.7-ish MILS for the SDN6!!!

Tested using 143 Norma, 140 ELDM & 147 ELDM factory ammo… the black sharpie cross is the POA.

ZA206 · Mar 6, 2024

The SDN6 is a PIG!!!

KYAggie · Mar 6, 2024

ZA206 said:
I ran the same experiment with my 24” 6.5CM Proof CF barreled Aero AR10…
AAC SDN6 that’s been Ecco’d with a Keymo HUB mount & Silencerco SAKER with a Keymo HUB mount.
Basically 1.3 MIL shift down for the SAKER and 1.7-ish MILS for the SDN6!!!

Tested using 143 Norma, 140 ELDM & 147 ELDM factory ammo… the black sharpie cross is the POA.

View attachment 8366371

Interesting. I had my 7.62SD Ecco’d with the A419 Hellfire mount and it’s repeatably 1.3 MILS down with the suppressor on vs the brake. That was with a AR10 16” Faxon Gunner weight 308 barrel. Your results are very similar.

flyboy · Jun 4, 2024

Just had the REM Sps 308 threaded and ACR mount installed over the winter. Took it out today for the first time.

With a SC Omega 36M I zeroed the rifle. It did pretty well, right at MOA but I was not on my game and kept throwing shots. Did three 5 shot groups all about or a little over MOA. Removed the can to see how the ASR brake worked (not bad for a suppressor mount). I had to adjust about 1 MOA up and .75 right without the can. I remounted the can. Shots were now 3.5 low and 2 left. After returning the scope the the previous suppressed zero. I broke the can loose and reseated it and it moved again to a different spot.

I expected a shift but was hoping for some consistency. Am I missing something? I don’t remember having this problem on my tikka 260 with this same kind of mount.

Terry Cross · Jun 4, 2024

Some are posting in this thread about their POI change with versus without suppressor.

I don't think that is what the OP was testing.
If I'm interpreting his post correctly, he was testing the POI shift after removing and reinstalling the suppressor. Basically, does the mount repeat well.

He can correct me if I'm wrong on this.

flyboy · Jun 5, 2024

Sorry if you were referring to me. I kinda did both. My shifted with both. Wish it hadn’t.

Yondering · Jun 6, 2024

flyboy said:
Just had the REM Sps 308 threaded and ACR mount installed over the winter. Took it out today for the first time.

With a SC Omega 36M I zeroed the rifle. It did pretty well, right at MOA but I was not on my game and kept throwing shots. Did three 5 shot groups all about or a little over MOA. Removed the can to see how the ASR brake worked (not bad for a suppressor mount). I had to adjust about 1 MOA up and .75 right without the can. I remounted the can. Shots were now 3.5 low and 2 left. After returning the scope the the previous suppressed zero. I broke the can loose and reseated it and it moved again to a different spot.

I expected a shift but was hoping for some consistency. Am I missing something? I don’t remember having this problem on my tikka 260 with this same kind of mount.

What you're describing indicates a consistency issue with the mount. Maybe it's nasty with fouling, or maybe alignment isn't very good and/or the mount isn't locking up consistently.

With a decent mount that locks up the same way every time, there should be no change in POI if you pull the suppressor off and reinstall it, as the OP described. If there is, your mount system has issues.

The key part of the statement above is "locks up the same way every time", meaning the same way a direct thread mount does - where the suppressor is always clocked the same way, and aligned the same way. A 3 lug mount is a common example of a mount that doesn't do that; the suppressor can be clocked to 3 different positions, and POI with some suppressors will vary between each clocking. Some flash hider suppressor mounts used 2 or 3 start threads too, with similar results. Others just didn't lock up solidly and repeatably, meaning a potentially different POI every time the can is mounted. IMO, avoid those kinds of mounts; it's just unnecessary headache. There's no reason a good QD mount can't lock up consistently every time.

And of course as Terry Cross pointed out, some people seem to be talking about change in POI with the suppressor mounted vs not. There will almost always be a change in POI with and without the suppressor - adding weight to the end of a barrel does that. But if the mount is solid and repeatable, that POI change should always be predictable for a particular suppressor.

Hattrick · Jun 16, 2024

Just experienced the 3 lug issue today what a pain in the ass. Wish I went direct thread

TheOE800 · Jun 16, 2024

Hattrick said:
Wish I went direct thread

The more cans I buy the more I think this. But I also took delivery of my first fiberglass stocked .308 in 2024 so I might just be turning into a fudd.

Ape_Factory · Jun 18, 2024

Terry Cross said:
Some are posting in this thread about their POI change with versus without suppressor.

I don't think that is what the OP was testing.
If I'm interpreting his post correctly, he was testing the POI shift after removing and reinstalling the suppressor. Basically, does the mount repeat well.

He can correct me if I'm wrong on this.

You are correct but also testing shift going from one suppressor to the other. Minimal shift either way.

BOTH suppressors were using the same HUB mount but they were different suppressor designs. One is a traditional baffle design and one is a flow through. Once I get tools in to remove the rear mount on my Radical Defense, I'll be testing it vs. the Flow 762.

Huskydriver · Jun 18, 2024

TheOE800 said:
The more cans I buy the more I think this. But I also took delivery of my first fiberglass stocked .308 in 2024 so I might just be turning into a fudd.

You say that until you mess up a thread or your can walks off

Mr. Wolf · Jun 19, 2024

ZA206 said:
I ran the same experiment with my 24” 6.5CM Proof CF barreled Aero AR10…
AAC SDN6 that’s been Ecco’d with a Keymo HUB mount & Silencerco SAKER with a Keymo HUB mount.
Basically 1.3 MIL shift down for the SAKER and 1.7-ish MILS for the SDN6!!!

Tested using 143 Norma, 140 ELDM & 147 ELDM factory ammo… the black sharpie cross is the POA.

View attachment 8366371

Good thread and useful info for future purchasing consideration.
The Proof Carbon 24" in sendero contour + Saker 7.62 dropped 1.0-1.1 mils shooting the Hornacy 140 gr Match factory ammo.

TheMarkm87 · Jun 19, 2024

KYAggie said:
For grins you should find someone with a AAC7.62SD with a 51T mount and repeat the experiment. My guess is the POI will be different every time you mount the suppressor an likely not minute of human at 100 yards.

We still have one of those that was used on an FN 308 Bolt gun for a long time. It's now running on a Tikke 23.75" .223 bolt gun. It's never had any POI shift issues.

It's heavy and a bit out of date, but still gets shot almost every weekend.

TheMarkm87 · Jun 19, 2024

I've seen suppressors do a variety of things. We had an AR with a BCM ELW profile where the POI walked down with different cans in sync with their size and weight.

I had and old M4-1000 that move the POI up an inch at 100 when mounted. Just depends on the barrel's quirks.

flatland1 · Nov 4, 2024

My 1st can was an AAC SCAR-H, with triple-pitch threads and IIRC, 6 index reference numbers on the rear of the can body. That sucker changed POI every time I removed & replaced it, no matter whether I started with the same index reference number at 12:00 or not. It took a year to get my tax stamp back on that thing, and the paperwork was dated 2009 - so it probably came with whatever mount they shipped before coming out with the 51T version. Whatever - I mentioned having this can while visiting with a local ClassIII/SOT, and he asked if I'd be willing to trade it for another new can, as he owned a SCAR 17, and wanted it for that rifle. I was only too happy to let that thing go, and felt very fortunate to be able to trade it off.
Since then, I've bought 5 TBAC cans, and have never had an issue with POI shift, whether using the fugly old BA, or nicer CB mounts.

tucaz · Nov 4, 2024

my 3 AAC cans are all over the place with POI shift when mounted and removed.

2 are old 18T and they are the worst

the newer m4-2k with the higher tooth count is better but still not what i would count on to hold zero past 100 yards.

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