Help me pick my next caliber

6br or 6.5 creedmoor?

  • 6BR

    Votes: 15 41.7%

  • 6.5 Creedmoor

    Votes: 21 58.3%
  • Total voters
    36
0

03machstock

Sergeant of the Hide
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 16, 2021
214
132
Pennsylvania
#1
Hey guys, I’m looking for help on choosing my next barrel. I currently shoot a .223 with 77gr bullets going ~ 2850 out of an origin action. Iv narrowed it down to either a 6br or a 6.5 creedmoor. My .223 barrel still has plenty of life on it, Iv just got the itch. Here’s my logic and list of pros/cons for each.

6br pro’s

Still kind of cheep to shoot once up and running

low powder consumption, and I have similar powders on hand for the .223 I currently have

Stupid accurate with minimal load development

Low recoil

Excellent brass life

6br cons

Possible feeding issues

No off the shelf ammo, but that’s kind of a null point bc I’ll reload for either

Not much performance gained over the .223 , about 30 grain heavier bullet going about the same speed.

Not much more range potential than my current set up

Still may be hard to spot misses at distance

6.5 creedmoor pros

Components are prevalent and everywhere

Great bc bullets

More knock down power in a hunting scenario

Extended range by a long shot (pun intended) to my current set up

Can see splash better on misses

Everyone has one

6.5 creedmoor cons

More expensive to shoot

More recoil

Can be harder to develop a load vs 6br


I’d like to shoot atleast 1 PRS match a year, and 1 f class match a year, both strictly for fun and for the ability to shoot longer ranges, as my ranges aren’t long. I know, I could do this with my current set up, and that’s what I’ll do in the mean time. If I had closer access to a long range I probably wouldnt go shoot matches at all. My ranges are 100 and 150 yards. There’s a range 30 min away that is 700 yards, but it’s hard to get into and I’m not a member. There’s another range 2.5 hours away that’s 1000 yards that I might join, but realistically I’ll go there maby twice a year. At my hunting camp, 5 hours away, we have 280 yards, and there’s a range near by to that that goes out to a mile, again that would be a once or twice a year thing. I’ll be shooting suppressed, and whichever I choose now, I’ll likely get the other one in 2 or 3 years anyway. I live in the north east, so nothing is wide open ranges up here like out west.
So, what do you think?
 
#2
Sounds like you already have the perfect setup for you……. If you are just wanting something new, go 6.5 creed. The 223 and 6br are too close performance and range wise. For what you are going to be doing it would be silly to spend all that money on 6br components, gun, new scope etc when you already have a 223. I have a 223 and a 6br and am selling my 6br because I didn’t see the gain and I stepped up to a 6 dasher for my match rifle.

The 6.5 creed could help you learn to manage recoil would be the only real advantage to adding it to your stable that I see.

Obviously, just wanting a new toy, go with what the heart wants. No one can tell you that.
 
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#3
Baron85 said:
Sounds like you already have the perfect setup for you……. If you are just wanting something new, go 6.5 creed. The 223 and 6br are too close performance and range wise. For what you are going to be doing it would be silly to spend all that money on 6br components, gun, new scope etc when you already have a 223. I have a 223 and a 6br and am selling my 6br because I didn’t see the gain and I stepped up to a 6 dasher for my match rifle.

The 6.5 creed could help you learn to manage recoil would be the only real advantage to adding it to your stable that I see.

Obviously, just wanting a new toy, go with what the heart wants. No one can tell you that.
Click to expand...
I would just be picking up a new barrel and swapping barrels back and forth on my current set up, but thanks for the reply! I did think about how more recoil would help me get better, because recoil on my current set up is literally non existent.
 
#4
Currently, I shoot 308win (175gr match grade, including Lapua Secnar 175) for PRS in a Ruger Precision Rifle. If I were going to "upgrade" at this point, I'd go with an RPR .338 LAP.

Might that be a consideration?
 
#6
03machstock said:
Hey guys, I’m looking for help on choosing my next barrel. I currently shoot a .223 with 77gr bullets going ~ 2850 out of an origin action. Iv narrowed it down to either a 6br or a 6.5 creedmoor. My .223 barrel still has plenty of life on it, Iv just got the itch. Here’s my logic and list of pros/cons for each.
Click to expand...
I would do nether and would go to 6GT. 6MM Creedmoor is like shooting 6.5 PRC with 108's and 6BR is the opposite. The other things with 6GT are, you can use the same mags as 308/Creedmoor, same powder and primers as 223. You can also get factory ammo for 6GT as well, which is another plus, and it has less recoil then 6MM Creedmoor.
 
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#7
I have a 6BRA, and it's the fun little cartridge to shoot.

So I vote 6BR (or BRA).

Low recoil, low powder consumption, excellent ballistics, excellent precision, suppresses well (low powder volume).

And the MDT 6BR mags work great for feeding.
 
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#9
spife7980 said:
What is your current set up?
The br and creed have a different sized bolt face (.380 vs .473) so you’ll either have to swap bolts or bolt heads to make them work.
Click to expand...
They’re the same. 6BR is a shortened 308 case.

OP: 6.5 creed probably makes the most sense. 41.5 H4350 and 140 ELDMs at 2.8” COAL will almost certainly shoot well. If not, then your load will be pretty close
 
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#11
spife7980 said:
What is your current set up?
The br and creed have a different sized bolt face (.380 vs .473) so you’ll either have to swap bolts or bolt heads to make them work.
Click to expand...
Current set up is .223 in a Zermatt origin action, so yes, I’ll need a new bolt head either way.

Zermatt origin
Pva .223 barrel
Mark 5hd
Tt diamond
McMillan a3-5
Etc.
 
#12
spife7980 said:
A 6br/6.5creed is not the fucking same bolt face diameter as his current 223.
Click to expand...
I love the internet. You said “the br and creed have a different sized bolt face”. I misunderstood you were comparing to 223. I figured it was obvious 6.5 creed and BR are bigger than 223
 
#13
03machstock said:
Hey guys, I’m looking for help on choosing my next barrel. I currently shoot a .223 with 77gr bullets going ~ 2850 out of an origin action. Iv narrowed it down to either a 6br or a 6.5 creedmoor. My .223 barrel still has plenty of life on it, Iv just got the itch. Here’s my logic and list of pros/cons for each.

6br pro’s

Still kind of cheep to shoot once up and running

low powder consumption, and I have similar powders on hand for the .223 I currently have

Stupid accurate with minimal load development

Low recoil

Excellent brass life

6br cons

Possible feeding issues

No off the shelf ammo, but that’s kind of a null point bc I’ll reload for either

Not much performance gained over the .223 , about 30 grain heavier bullet going about the same speed.

Not much more range potential than my current set up

Still may be hard to spot misses at distance

6.5 creedmoor pros

Components are prevalent and everywhere

Great bc bullets

More knock down power in a hunting scenario

Extended range by a long shot (pun intended) to my current set up

Can see splash better on misses

Everyone has one

6.5 creedmoor cons

More expensive to shoot

More recoil

Can be harder to develop a load vs 6br


I’d like to shoot atleast 1 PRS match a year, and 1 f class match a year, both strictly for fun and for the ability to shoot longer ranges, as my ranges aren’t long. I know, I could do this with my current set up, and that’s what I’ll do in the mean time. If I had closer access to a long range I probably wouldnt go shoot matches at all. My ranges are 100 and 150 yards. There’s a range 30 min away that is 700 yards, but it’s hard to get into and I’m not a member. There’s another range 2.5 hours away that’s 1000 yards that I might join, but realistically I’ll go there maby twice a year. At my hunting camp, 5 hours away, we have 280 yards, and there’s a range near by to that that goes out to a mile, again that would be a once or twice a year thing. I’ll be shooting suppressed, and whichever I choose now, I’ll likely get the other one in 2 or 3 years anyway. I live in the north east, so nothing is wide open ranges up here like out west.
So, what do you think?
Click to expand...

Consider a 6 BRA. That's my "stupid" rifle because it just hits everything. It's slightly faster than a 6 BR, which increases flexibility. Last trip out before my rebarrel, I had a 50% hit rate on a 24" target at 1700 yards. Of course, spotting the hits was not the easiest - it didn't move the target and barely made a mark :)

If you don't want to go that route, the 6 BR is pretty darned close to being just as "stupid" - just not quite as speedy.

Of the cons you list:

Possible feeding issues
I have zero feeding issues with my 6 BRA using the mags with spacers (MDT).

No off the shelf ammo, but that’s kind of a null point bc I’ll reload for either
As you mention, not an issue.

Not much performance gained over the .223 , about 30 grain heavier bullet going about the same speed.
The consistency is much better, and that 30 grains is more appropriately called out as a ~35% weight increase, which is sizable.

Not much more range potential than my current set up
I beg to differ :)

Still may be hard to spot misses at distance
This is the only real con on this list for what you'll be shooting vs a 6.5.

As for the 6.5 CM,

This is on your pros, but should be moved to cons:

Everyone has one

At the end of the day, you need to decide what is more important to you. The BR (or BRA) will be far more accurate and consistent with a lot less recoil. The 6.5 will be better at longer ranges due to being able to spot better and its ability to battle the wind better.

My BRA, by far, is my most accurate and "stupid" rifle.
 
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#14
Lost_Phil said:
I would do nether and would go to 6GT. 6MM Creedmoor is like shooting 6.5 PRC with 108's and 6BR is the opposite. The other things with 6GT are, you can use the same mags as 308/Creedmoor, same powder and primers as 223. You can also get factory ammo for 6GT as well, which is another plus, and it has less recoil then 6MM Creedmoor.
Click to expand...
I agree, go 6GT. That is going to be my next step, as I have a 6BR and 223.
 
#16
In my limited abilities, I found that the 6.5 Creedmoor was easy to load for, and really accurate. Unlike most, I had a harder time finding that perfect load for the 6GT, but it is more than good enough and it is much easier to stay on target with some of the barricades and props used in PRS.
 
#20
I have 2, 6.5 CMs and a 6 mm Dasher.
No question, for my use, the 6 mm Dasher is a much better cartridge for targets, less cost for components, less recoil, and more accurate, plus it's very easy to get to shoot accurately. Has capability to shoot 55 gr and 58 gr gr to 4000 to 4100 fps for varmints or 105 gr to 115 gr at moderate velocities for super accuracy or high velocity with excellent accuracy like 110 gr SMK at 3085 fps and a .6 BC.
Just buy the correct mags for these short cartridges for your Alum chassis, they are labeled as such, with a spacer installed, and Alpha Munitions factory brass is good.
 
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#21
I run a 6 creedmoor and I love it.
competition loads will kill a 6 creed barrel in 1500 rounds vs 2800ish to kill a 6.5 creed, but bullet price differences slightly negate the cost.
it costs me 25 cents approx extra per shot to shoot 6 creed and foe the low recoil and flat trajectories I think it's worth it for a 1k yard gun.
load dev goes as easy as a 6 dasher or br or anything else IME.
for the creedmoor, buy the berger 109 creedmoor factory ammo and save the lapua brass.
it shoots decently at long range, plus that lapua brass... iykyk
 
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#22
45-90 said:
I have 2, 6.5 CMs and a 6 mm Dasher.
No question, for my use, the 6 mm Dasher is a much better cartridge for targets, less cost for components, less recoil, and more accurate, plus it's very easy to get to shoot accurately. Has capability to shoot 55 gr and 58 gr gr to 4000 to 4100 fps for varmints or 105 gr to 115 gr at moderate velocities for super accuracy or high velocity with excellent accuracy like 110 gr SMK at 3085 fps and a .6 BC.
Click to expand...
you're saying you got 3085 fps with a 110 smk out of a dasher?
ok what barrel length and reamer specs and powder charge pray tell because that is bonafied creedmoor speed, and you are living dangerously(or lying)
I can *barely* top that with a 28" barrel, my secret squirrel lapua creedmoor reamer, aggressive gain twist bartlein, 13 grains more powder and a high risk tolerance.
 
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#24
Cody S said:
you're saying you got 3085 fps with a 110 smk out of a dasher?
ok what barrel length and reamer specs and powder charge pray tell because that is bonafied creedmoor speed, and you are living dangerously(or lying)
I can *barely* top that with a 28" barrel, my secret squirrel lapua creedmoor reamer, aggressive gain twist bartlein, 13 grains more powder and a high risk tolerance.
Click to expand...
It appears the 6 Dasher is all ya need.
It's a 28" barrel, as one can see the rest on the blank when I chambered it.
It's a standard Orginal 6 Dasher reamer .272" neck 104" Freeborn.
Alpha brass.
It shoots 110 SMK to 3098 fps, and
115 gr DTAC at 3044 fps in ladder tests.
The 110 SMK at 3085 fps is an excellent load.
And 58 Vmax at 4100 fps, for varmints.
Plus the standard Varget and RL 15 loads.
The most accurate rifle I own.
Typical comnent...it's out performing your cartridge with a larger case capacity, so it can't be happening.
The lying comment shows, anger, cartridge prejudice, and character...
Some people may want to learn, others not so much...

The 6 mm Dasher is IMO the most efficient 6 mm case...I could have chosen any case I want, but it's the best for accuracy and performance, combination...IMO.
 

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#27
45-90 said:
It appears the 6 Dasher is all ya need.
It's a 28" barrel, as one can see the rest on the blank when I chambered it.
It's a standard Orginal 6 Dasher reamer .272" neck 104" Freeborn.
Alpha brass.
It shoots 110 SMK to 3098 fps, and
115 gr DTAC at 3044 fps in ladder tests.
The 110 SMK at 3085 fps is an excellent load.
And 58 Vmax at 4100 fps, for varmints.
Plus the standard Varget and RL 15 loads.
The most accurate rifle I own.
Typical comnent...it's out performing your cartridge with a larger case capacity, so it can't be happening.
The lying comment shows, anger, cartridge prejudice, and character...
Some people may want to learn, others not so much...

The 6 mm Dasher is IMO the most efficient 6 mm case...I could have chosen any case I want, but it's the best for accuracy and performance, combination...IMO.
Click to expand...
What powder and charge are you running to hit those speeds? My 26” dasher pushing 112 match burners is flattening primers around mid 2800’s with stabal 6.5
 
#29
Baron85 said:
What powder and charge are you running to hit those speeds? My 26” dasher pushing 112 match burners is flattening primers around mid 2800’s with stabal 6.5
Click to expand...
he's running it over 37 grains of fairy dust.
seriously, kids probably using a 20$ chronograph and measured 1 round.
I have no idea but this at the face of it sounds completely made up.
 
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#33
03machstock said:
6br cons

Not much performance gained over the .223 , about 30 grain heavier bullet going about the same speed.

Not much more range potential than my current set up
Click to expand...

Since it's been more than a few months... I hope someone has told you that the above is completly wrong by now?

There is a vast difference (upgrade) in performance going from a .223 to a 6BR.

A 6BR does mostly the same things a 6.5CM does, it just does it with far less recoil. So even though the bullet is smaller/lighter, you're more likely to see it. At 750 yards .223 impacts/splash can be hard to pick up, with a 6BR there's no doubt. Out to ~900 yards it's hard to fuk wit the 6BR up against anything else. If you're going to be buying new mags to make the switch anyway, buy the MDT BR/Dasher mags, and if you end up finding a club that goes out further, maybe consider a Dasher for more juice.

FWIW, I'm no 6.5CM hater, it's goldilocks for lots of people... but don't get it twisted. The top PRS 6.5CM shooters running them feed theirs steady diets of the elusive/expensive heavier/higher BC-than-usual 153.5/156 Berger Hybrids that the rest of us plebs can have a hard time tracking down, and at least one of the guys is running/experimenting with 1:7.5 twists (instead of the usual 1:8 most 6.5CM barrels come with).

IMO it's probably easier for most guys to tap into more performance with a 6BR.

6GT is probably the best option if one is coming from something larger like 6/6.5CM as it's about as small as you can go without buying new mags, faster powders like Varget are on the menu, and it can be run slow and soft enough to be just like a Dasher. (JMHO)
 
#34
Baron85 said:
I’m with ya. Just curious what he is using. If it’s legit it’s got to be a fast burning powder way over pressure. At least from my experience.
Click to expand...
Probably running 75,000 psi and hard primers to keep it together.
I've seen f class guys run the 6s hot. I have never seen anyone claim 3000fps with a Dasher and 110 class bullets. What's the secrete sauce?
 
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#35
Buy a backup 223 barrel and a metric crap ton of supplies for it.
or
Go 6.5x47 lapua, 37.5 or so grains of varget and 130/135 grain bergers. Creedmoor performance without the stigma lol.
 
#36
30338 said:
Buy a backup 223 barrel and a metric crap ton of supplies for it.
or
Go 6.5x47 lapua, 37.5 or so grains of varget and 130/135 grain bergers. Creedmoor performance without the stigma lol.
Click to expand...
why not go for H4350 over varget?

I chased the cartridges and wildcats a good while back.
all basically do the same thing. pick one with a 30 or 40 degree shoulder and has lapua brass and enough internal volume to run the powder you want for appropriate speeds.
6.5x47L and 6mm creedmoor have been my personal favorites, but I'm so invested in the creedmoor cartridge I wouldn't ever go back to the 47L. I have the slower powders now like N555 for full top speed in the creedmoor.
I really don't understand the dasher craze. tried it, liked it, hated fireforming brass. switched to creedmoor and stepped on the pedal.
the creedmoor and the x47L have both fed flawlessly in everything for me, unlike the dasher which I got to work well but was tricky and expensive.
you start getting good with load dev and it seems like they all group so good and so easy...
YMMV
 
Last edited:
#38
Yes one can shoot 110 past 3050 fps or 107 to 3140 fps in the 6 Dasher...but I also shoot standard loads of 2970 to 3020 fps for my super accurate 108 gr Berger loads.

So a similar load was used in competition for awhile, by a shooter over on Accurate Shooter, a few yrs back with Berger bullets i believe.
It is temrature sensitive and my not be your cup of tea...but it shot a 10 shot ladder test into less than half inch...so here's the load data to the undeserving unbelievers, for that load.
Many just plain asses on this site, yours is always better, no one does that, it's impossible...I present information, from experimentation, what you do with it, is up to you.
Then you show them, they still won't accept any of it, ...must be lots of brain washed democrats, LOL.
So this is for the few who actually want to know, and see if it will work for them, very few,... so it's for them.

I have changed to a less temrature sensitive powder and got even slightly higher velocities, which I'm shooting here, the 110 grs at 3085 fps average.
It's quiet on the heavy steel, have to listen.
All that's left is the jacket base, below the steel. The 6 mm Dasher is so easy, no recoil, super accurate, no misses, even for me. Even a child could learn to shoot a 6 Dasher, very well
Why I recommend it.
I cheat, and chamber my own rifles, so I'm totally unconcerned about barrel life, and built this one, in one day, starting noon, when the blank arrived, from SPR. Chambering, threading, truing the action, bolt knob, extractor fitting, 4 oz trigger...etc and loaded ammo for it, was out shooting it at noon the next day.
So I build every caliber I'm interested in, spend a lot of time and money experimenting with most everything...
Oh, Remington 7 1/2 primers and Alpha brass is what I use exclusively.
The End...
 

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#40
The 2024 "What the Pros Used"...
Look it up.
#1 6mm Dasher chosen by 41% as the top pick used by the "real" pros in 2024....yes, they overwhelming chose to shoot the 6 Dasher.

#2 6 GT 11%
#3 6 BR 8%
#4 6 BRA 8%
# 5 6 mm Creedmoor 7%
The 6mm Dasher this year was the top cartridge used by the pros in PRS...by far.
It's the super accuracy with reasonable velocity...ya don't have to hot rod it but ya can...cause the accuracy is still there.

A few shooters still chose the 308 and 6.5 CM ... equally...strange.
77% shoot a 6 mm over any other calibers.
 
#42
Cody S said:
I'd rather not ruin my brass in 2 firings, thanks.
I still don't believe you're not over pressure at 3100fps.
Click to expand...
So, I posted one load for those few interested, and you non believers who refuse to believe, even when you see it...
Just as I predicted many would do...that's the kind of folks many of you are, here.


Go up and look at the 4 attachments.l on my post..there is your answer...already posted...for 1 load...110 SMK with empty 6 mm dasher cases and one loaded one,
With average velocity of 3056 fps for the 110 SMK. The 3085 fps load is a different powder for the 110 gr SMK...and goes 3044 for the 115 DTAC.
Ya don't even read it, yet criticize, and throw childish tantrums,... typical.
Some even curse and call names,
Typical behavior, for many around here, not agreeing with their opinion or cartridge choice, or project...but a few want an honest opinion, ...it's for them.

Totally comical,... that 6mm Creedmoor is way down the line according to the "real" Pros in PRS.
Top PRS shooters choose the 6 dasher hugely, overwhelmingly, by 41%!!!!...nothing else is even close!
The master race ain't what it used to be...
 
#43
My 28 inch 6br is doing 2850fps with 108eldm and about 10fps slower with 110atip with a very common charge weight using 2208/varget in soft Norma brass. Why would you bother fire forming dasher to run the same velocity? Surely that's an argument for straight BR or going to GT?
 
#44
Slides said:
My 28 inch 6br is doing 2850fps with 108eldm and about 10fps slower with 110atip with a very common charge weight using 2208/varget in soft Norma brass. Why would you bother fire forming dasher to run the same velocity? Surely that's an argument for straight BR or going to GT?
Click to expand...

I'm north of 2800fps from a 20" Dasher and 32.4gr Varget.
 
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#45
Slides said:
My 28 inch 6br is doing 2850fps with 108eldm and about 10fps slower with 110atip with a very common charge weight using 2208/varget in soft Norma brass. Why would you bother fire forming dasher to run the same velocity? Surely that's an argument for straight BR or going to GT?
Click to expand...
Excellent factory 6 Dasher brass is available from Alpha Munitions....no fire forming necessarily. That's a thing of the past, and it's capable of taking pressure.
Its what the pros use today.
There is a video on Ultimate Reloader, "Don't Do This At Home." 308 making 300 WM velocity.
They ran the brass with a BAT action to way over pressure several times, something like 96,000 psi...go check it out.
This ain't yesterday, there are new and better options. So ya have good factory brass for the 6 Dasher, just like all the rest, 6 BRA, 6GT, or 6 BR. Your choice...enjoy.
 

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#47
ma smith said:
AFAIK...6 creedmoor, dashers and even 6GT are often down-loaded for purposes of self-spotting and longer barrel life...
Click to expand...
Yes, I heard that, ...the self spotting idea gave them a fraction of a second to observe the vapor trail and watch fot impact.
I self spotted during most of my time shooting LR through the first 17,000 rds, and I do not subscribe to that practice, I used heavier 30 cal bullets, no muzzle device.
And was able to observe bullet strikes.
Increase the range gives you plenty of time to watch the bullet, 2.4 seconds at 1400yds. I ran them as fast as possible.
Barrel life was never a concern, so I doubt many in PRS are concerned about barrel life...but they are concerned about hitting and winning.
A winning strategy or equipment, draws people to that conclusion and a new practice is born, as well as new shooting bags, rails, stocks, etc... Making a booming industry.
They are the probably right when the majority adopts new gagets, or new shooting procedures. They all want to win, so one should heed their advice, and experience in the PRS game.
 
#49
45-90 said:
Excellent factory 6 Dasher brass is available from Alpha Munitions....no fire forming necessarily. That's a thing of the past, and it's capable of taking pressure.
Its what the pros use today.
There is a video on Ultimate Reloader, "Don't Do This At Home." 308 making 300 WM velocity.
They ran the brass with a BAT action to way over pressure several times, something like 96,000 psi...go check it out.
This ain't yesterday, there are new and better options. So ya have good factory brass for the 6 Dasher, just like all the rest, 6 BRA, 6GT, or 6 BR. Your choice...enjoy.
Click to expand...
My comment was more aimed at old mate claiming dasher was overpressure at 2850fps.
 
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