State of the Industry

Stephen Bachiler · Jun 23, 2024

I had an interesting meeting this week which caused me to thing about competition rifle (target) shooting as a global industry. And while I shoot regularly and reload (recreational) I didn't It have the answers that we being asked of me. I figured I would ask here and seek some wisdom.

1. Is the sport growing? I assume it is growing (F-Class, Palma, PRS, Benchrest..etc)
2. If it IS growing it is global, or US only?
3. Are there any estimates of participation number either US only, or better yet, globally for discipline listed above?
4. What type of global viewership/spectators are these events drawing and do they generate revenue?
5. Is there/are there an organization (s) that "own" these events or govern them?

What I am getting at...is there a world where you could see these events becoming a larger spectator sport? For example:

TV deals, venues that attract paying spectators etc..I have seen F-Class events on YouTube that have taken on a semi-offciial production value with commentators and spectator aids like digital targets...

Any thoughts, comments and information on any of this would be appreciated

Thank you

308pirate · Jun 23, 2024

Stephen Bachiler said:
is there a world where you could see these events becoming a larger spectator sport?

No

This ground has been tread many times before by multiple sanctioning bodies: NRA, IPSC, USPSA, NSCA (sporting clays), NRL, amongst others.

Every single one of them have ended in failure.

BTW the real shotgun sports (trap, skeet, and sporting clays) have participation numbers that are orders of magnitude greater than all rifle and pistol sports combined and they failed.

Combine the number of clubs throwing clay targets in the country plus the sheer size of the national trap, skeet, and SC tournaments if you have doubts.

Stephen Bachiler · Jun 23, 2024

308pirate said:
No

This ground has been tread many times before by multiple sanctioning bodies: NRA, IPSC, USPSA, NSCA (sporting clays), NRL, amongst others.

Every single one of them have ended in failure.

BTW the tree real shotgun sports (trap, skeet, and sporting clays) have participation numbers that are orders of magnitude greater than all rifle and pistol sports combined and they failed.

Combine the number of clubs throwing clay targets in the country plus the sheer size of the national trap, skeet, and SC tournaments if you have doubts.

Good points. Why do you think this is? It seems odd to me that with 10s of millions of gun owners and a sure in interest that nothing can get off the ground?

I mean things like triathlon, spartan races and other niche sports get at least some TV play...

Seems like maybe a there is a piece or two missing that would allow for a marketing/business model to get this idea off the ground

Thanks for the reply

hlee · Jun 23, 2024

The reason that shooting (especially long/ish range rifle) is not a spectator sport is because watching other people shoot targets that the spectator cannot see is boring as fuck. And this is from someone that really enjoys shooting.

I went to a ton of sporting clays tournaments when my son was competing in highschool. Other than watching him shoot, they were a snooze fest- including Nationals 3 times. But, I enjoy shooting them.

I tried to bring my wife to PRS matches. She went to a couple, but as a non-shooter she just dgaf about any of it. She enjoyed watching me and my son shoot, but that didn’t justify spending most of a day at the range.

Yes, it is more boring than watching golf, or the TdF, or watching cars make left turns for 500 miles, or any other spectator sport you can imagine. By orders of magnitude.

The only shooting that is remotely interesting, is trick shooting; and that only in small doses.

308pirate · Jun 23, 2024

Stephen Bachiler said:
Good points. Why do you think this is? It seems odd to me that with 10s of millions of gun owners and a sure in interest that nothing can get off the ground?

@hlee already answered better than I could. Personally I'm a doer not a watcher when it comes to activities that interest me.

I'm an avid USPSA practical pistol competitor. It's one of the most dynamic shooting sports there is and it's still boring as fuck to watch unless you know exactly what's going on.

Stephen Bachiler said:
I mean things like triathlon, spartan races and other niche sports get at least some TV play...

Go ask them how regular their TV exposure is....

Stephen Bachiler · Jun 23, 2024

308pirate said:
@hlee already answered better than I could. Personally I'm a doer not a watcher when it comes to activities that interest me.

I'm an avid USPSA practical pistol competitor. It's one of the most dynamic shooting sports there is and it's still boring as fuck to watch unless you know exactly what's going on.

Go ask them how regular their TV exposure is....

"Guntubers" on YouTube seem to have taken off...I mean some dude shooting his savage Axis in his backyard is getting 500k or 1 million views..I think there has to be a way to bring these competitions to (at least) digital media.

I would think "the public" would prefer to see hanging steel targets of various sizes or maybe silhouette targets getting smacked...than holes in paper..or maybe explosive targets at distances...

Threadcutter308 · Jun 23, 2024

Stephen Bachiler said:
"Guntubers" on YouTube seem to have taken off...I mean some dude shooting his savage Axis in his backyard is getting 500k or 1 million views..I think there has to be a way to bring these competitions to (at least) digital media.

I would think "the public" would prefer to see hanging steel targets of various sizes or maybe silhouette targets getting smacked...than holes in paper..or maybe explosive targets at distances...

youtube (as much as it pains me to say this) offers at least three advantages, compared to attending/spectating an event in person;

1. No cost to the spectator.

2. The spectator can watch as much (or as little) as they want, then just turn it off. There's no penalty for leaving early/abandoning a portion of the ticket cost.

3. The spectator can watch from the comfort of their own home, or on a phone/iPad from literally anywhere in the world (provided shooting content is not blocked/censored).

One of the big downsides of youtube is the content creators put together 20 minute videos that realistically could be done in three minutes.

37L1 · Jun 23, 2024

Long range dueling. . .

ma smith · Jun 23, 2024

The only shooting that doesn't suck to watch on TV is Biathlon...

308pirate · Jun 23, 2024

Stephen Bachiler said:
"Guntubers" on YouTube seem to have taken off...I mean some dude shooting his savage Axis in his backyard is getting 500k or 1 million views..I think there has to be a way to bring these competitions to (at least) digital media.

I would think "the public" would prefer to see hanging steel targets of various sizes or maybe silhouette targets getting smacked...than holes in paper..or maybe explosive targets at distances...

I'm sure you will succeed where virtually everyone else has failed.

308pirate · Jun 23, 2024

ma smith said:
The only shooting that doesn't suck to watch on TV is WOMENS Biathlon...

FIFY

hlee · Jun 23, 2024

Guntubers have crafted personalities that make them enjoyable to watch in spite of the shooting (at least the good ones do. Some are chodes). Can a person be autistic and a primadona? I don't know, but I think that describes most high level competitors. Boring formats and unlikable personalities. Yep, that's a winner on any platform.

Stephen Bachiler · Jun 23, 2024

I don't plan on attempting to stand up some sort of investment into these competitions...just asking questions..

Basher · Jun 23, 2024

The only reasons I enjoy going to a match as a spectator rather than a competitor are when:

a) I’m totally new and know nothing about the particular discipline the match is about and I want to learn more,

2) I’m too poor to shoot the match/my gear isn’t ready/some other “road block” exists, but I still want to go and socialize with friends or (more likely) help out with ROing to “pay it forward” and better the club/group,

D) no, there’s nothing else, that’s pretty much it.

I’ve got to matches a few times to spectate when I was close enough to just jumping in that I should have done just that, and have always regretted it when I didn’t. Only once have I gone to a match as an absolute noob who knew nothing and didn’t have any of the proper gear to participate. Every other time I’ve been able to register and shoot (even if I knew I’d suck), but I chose to just go watch, I’ve regretted it.

So honestly, even as someone who loves shooting, I’m not going to go just to watch unless it’s to suppose a close friend or family member. I don’t even watch “spectator friendly” sports. I’d maybe watch MotoGP if they weren’t greedy bastards who charge stupid high fees to watch the races, but that’d be about it.

I just don’t see any money in making shooting comps “viewer friendly.” Outside of game shows or reality shows where drama’s the focus and shooting is secondary, there’s not enough interest there to get companies involved IMO.

Mulepackhunter · Jun 23, 2024

Think of some reality show you really like to watch, the way to do it is to mirror something like it and add the shooting competition element to it.
For instance, I like watching "Alone" so a production where top shooters are in a scenario where how they shoot gets them off an island and they get a but load of cash. Do all the backstories and such, do a quick rundown of their gear, add in some mountain travel, so on and so forth.
One of the best shows I saw shooting wise was the Top Shot show, really liked it and my wife loved it. Combine Top shot, Alone, and Texas Plinking and maybe youve got something, But there needs to be some good money in it.

Stephen Bachiler · Jun 23, 2024

Mulepackhunter said:
Think of some reality show you really like to watch, the way to do it is to mirror something like it and add the shooting competition element to it.
For instance, I like watching "Alone" so a production where top shooters are in a scenario where how they shoot gets them off an island and they get a but load of cash. Do all the backstories and such, do a quick rundown of their gear, add in some mountain travel, so on and so forth.
One of the best shows I saw shooting wise was the Top Shot show, really liked it and my wife loved it. Combine Top shot, Alone, and Texas Plinking and maybe youve got something, But there needs to be some good money in it.

I remember Top Shot!! I think you are on to something

NateVA · Jun 23, 2024

Even for precision rifle Youtubers, if there's no triggercam I have no interest in watching at all. "Impact Shooting" has a great variety of match shooting and hunting, all with triggercam. The thing is I assume it handicaps the shooter so top tier shooters don't want to use one, but they'd need to in order to make the product even halfway marketable. Not that that would make a huge difference I guess.

spife7980 · Jun 24, 2024

I’ve seen the ncaa nationals for the air gun and it was really well put together, watched it for over an hour one night.
Two people, going directly head to head simultaneously and with excellent graphics show the shots, scores etc.
Don’t think it would have been as entertaining without them standing up together side by side, head to head.

AirgunnerPCP · Jun 24, 2024

I think the shooting sports could be made viewer friendly on a larger scale. It just takes the right approach and format which is a code that clearly hasn't been cracked yet (heard on the examples of immensely popular shooting sports that have failed to make the transition).

I do agree that even as a shooter I find watching shooting sports boring. But then again i don't watch much of any sport.

Shoots 700's · Jun 24, 2024

I will stick to watching youtube for the brief moment it can keep me interested without switching video.

Baron23 · Jun 24, 2024

308pirate said:
BTW the tree real shotgun sports (trap, skeet, and sporting clays) have participation numbers that are orders of magnitude greater than all rifle and pistol sports combined and they failed.

And the numbers for clay target sports are suffering also....perhaps sporting clays less than others but the simple fact is shotgunners are aging out while fewer young kids are encouraged/taught shooting because of anti-gun attitudes, stupidly high costs these days...and well, youth soccer lol.

And as said, watching shooting sports is boring as fuck. I did enjoy watching biathlon in the last winter Olympics...but mostly just from being in awe (as a shooter) that these people's cardio conditioning is so incredible that they can drop down from cross country skiing and then shoot a less than 2" target (prone) at 50 meters with .22 caliber rifles. Leaves me dumbfounded.

But take Olympic skeet....its an order of magnitude more difficult than American Skeet and what these competitors can do is just beautiful. Plus America has had some real top drawer champions in recent years...Kim Rhode and Vincent Hancock. But can you see it well covered on TV....no, not really. Got to go online to see recordings for the most part.

Just the way it is.

Dead Eye Dick · Jun 25, 2024

I find that going to a participant sporting event to watch others participate is about as appealing as being hungry and going to a restaurant to watch others eat.

IHMSA had the largest spectator appeal, because you can see the targets fall when they were hit and the targets are big enough to actually see them with the naked eye. Heck, it pretty much has died as a “Participant” sport. (Much less a “spectator” sport???)

As far as PRS, American Shooter does as good a job presenting the matches as anyone could, showing the targets, often the bullet trace and the shooter. And, to put a feather in their cap, they are about the only mass media that really promotes any type of long range riflery. Even the printed material that has on its title “precision” often is just a rehash of ultra light weight hunting rifles. (Which are about as precision as a Daisy Red Rider BB gun). Going back to American shooter, their coverage of the AG Cup, is about as good a presentation of any shooting sport, I’ve seen.

So, the real problem is

Not making the sport spectator friendly. Never has been never will….but the real problem, is…Keeping it alive after the huge boom in interest goes away. A few have have, but most haven’t.

roostercogburn98 · Jun 25, 2024

hlee said:
The reason that shooting (especially long/ish range rifle) is not a spectator sport is because watching other people shoot targets that the spectator cannot see is boring as fuck

Watching a car do left hand turns for 500 miles is dumb as fuck too. Most “sports” suck to watch(my opinion). People mostly do it to fit into a clique and feel accepted, once again, my opinion.

DairyDictator · Jun 25, 2024

PRS is the least boring long range shooting sport to watch in my opinion, but it's still incredibly boring. I say that as an avid PRS shooter who really enjoys watching the top guys shoot. The problem with the current coverage is there's one mediocre angle to cover an entire stage, and a target cam if you're lucky. I want to see how these guys build positions, the decisions they make to be successful, the conditions they're dealing with, and the corrections they make. It's incredibly difficult to do that without being far too invasive to the shooter. You'd have to have at least 2 angles on the shooter per postiion, and a really good target cam directly behind the shooter. A triggercam would be awesome but it's not exactly feasibile on a grand scale.

The next best thing to monetize the sport is developing stats for shooters to follow and see how you stack up against the rest of the country and market that area to advertisers.

hlee · Jun 25, 2024

Every high school in the country has football, baseball, volleyball, basketball, softball, soccer, and track teams. Even those that have never played the games can have a general understanding of the rules, and a modest appreciation of the competition. Our high school was the only one in the district with a shotgun team. Very few- mostly limited to shooters- have even a passing understanding of shooting sports. Hell, I can go to a rifle range and talk to a shooter on the line; I’d give even odds that he has never even heard of PRS or NRL.

roostercogburn98 said:
Watching a car do left hand turns for 500 miles is dumb as fuck too. Most “sports” suck to watch(my opinion). People mostly do it to fit into a clique and feel accepted, once again, my opinion.

You and I may agree on this point, but the fact remains that motorsports is in the top 10 most popular sports.

It is trendy to say things like “I don’t watch TV, like a pleb,” or “all sports suck and are for unsophisticated rubes,” or any manner of other forms of virtue signaling. People mostly do it to fit into a clique and feel accepted.

roostercogburn98 · Jun 25, 2024

hlee said:
Hell, I can go to a rifle range and talk to a shooter on the line; I’d give even odds that he has never even heard of PRS or NRL.

I am constantly souprised at the number of “gun people” that don’t know about this place.

Chris W. · Jun 25, 2024

I think something like PRS could be entertaining on TV or YouTube, but it'd be monstrously expensive to produce if it were to be done in an interesting way. We'd have to have multiple cameras and angles on each stage/shooter, plus cameras on every target, plus commentary from knowledgeable people explaining the position-building, ballistics, and tactics the shooters use to clear stages.

DocRDS · Jun 25, 2024

Industry is only interested in milking you for your hard earned cash.

I have spoken
(why yes I am somewhat disillusioned with the gun "industry" and competition is no different).

DairyDictator · Jun 25, 2024

roostercogburn98 said:
I am constantly souprised at the number of “gun people” that don’t know about this place.

Your average "gun guy" is a dude with 10-20 $400 savage axis tier rifles and stevens shotguns they won at the local sportsman's club banquet.

308pirate · Jun 25, 2024

Chris W. said:
I think something like PRS could be entertaining on TV or YouTube,

308pirate · Jun 25, 2024

roostercogburn98 said:
I am constantly souprised at the number of “gun people” that don’t know about this place.

The average gun people can't hit shit with their guns

308pirate · Jun 25, 2024

Dead Eye Dick said:
I find that going to a participant sporting event to watch others participate is about as appealing as being hungry and going to a restaurant to watch others eat.

LOL +1

diggler1833 · Jun 26, 2024

I for one, am extremely glad that the PRS industry is as large as it is. Over the past 15 years we have had more innovation brought to precision rifle shooting in general than we had over the previous 45. I hope that it continues to grow even more as I appreciate all of that innovation out here on a ranch, shooting at nothing.

I've attempted to watch a couple PRS events however on YouTube, and while I find it less boring than something like F-Class...it just doesn't do anything for me to watch guys involved in tripods and bean bag wars with every hit getting the recurrent "MMMMPAAAAAKT" yelled out in a purposely irritating tone. Admittedly though, unless one is actively involved in such a sport, they tend to find it less enjoyable to watch.

I think if a PRS event were to be regularly televised, something like the GAP Grind needs to be the one that breaks it out. They're going to have to do something with it though, like follow several amateurs and their back stories in order to increase buy-in from the guys who still buy their guns and ammunition at Wal-Mart.

Let's face it, we are in a sports segment that is a lot of fun to participate in but boring as hell to watch for the uninitiated. Consider me unitiated too.

hlee · Jun 26, 2024

diggler1833 said:
I for one, am extremely glad that the PRS industry is as large as it is. Over the past 15 years we have had more innovation brought to precision rifle shooting in general than we had over the previous 45. I hope that it continues to grow even more as I appreciate all of that innovation out here on a ranch, shooting at nothing.

I've attempted to watch a couple PRS events however on YouTube, and while I find it less boring than something like F-Class...it just doesn't do anything for me to watch guys involved in tripods and bean bag wars with every hit getting the recurrent "MMMMPAAAAAKT" yelled out in a purposely irritating tone. Admittedly though, unless one is actively involved in such a sport, they tend to find it less enjoyable to watch.

I think if a PRS event were to be regularly televised, something like the GAP Grind needs to be the one that breaks it out. They're going to have to do something with it though, like follow several amateurs and their back stories in order to increase buy-in from the guys who still buy their guns and ammunition at Wal-Mart.

Let's face it, we are in a sports segment that is a lot of fun to participate in but boring as hell to watch for the uninitiated. Consider me unitiated too.

Boring for the initiated to watch as well. The biggest and most recurring complaint I have heard is “This match takes too long to shoot…”

DFOOSKING · Jun 26, 2024

I think it was hit a just smidge. But why the fuck are you focusing on TV when the internet is vastly a better venue eyeballs wise.

Or if you could court them to fund it.....get some streaming service like Netflix, Hulu, Redtube

to handle the filming.

Then like was said about Youtube....people watch it at their leisure.

But their would have to be filmography and post production to provide stage layouts/briefs/after action etc.to really supply the viewer with the whole reality of what they are seeing.

Even then, I kinda wonder what info/specifics the random joe shoe should be exposed to. And what liability that would expose the video creator to.

hlee · Jun 26, 2024

If modern reality TV is any judge, no one wants to put a bunch of "cis" dudes on any sort of platform. If you are straight, white, or male, don't worry about applying.

FredHammer · Jun 26, 2024

I’m still enjoying being able to even own a firearm at the moment. I really fear a conversation when I’m 80 something yrs old I I’m like, “Yeah, we used to shoot guns, drive our own vehicles…the shit was wild off the hook and we were free!”

308pirate · Jun 26, 2024

hlee said:
If modern reality TV is any judge, no one wants to put a bunch of "cis" dudes on any sort of platform. If you are straight, white, or male, WITH SCARY SNIPER RIFLES don't worry about applying.

FIFY

FieldGaugeFailure · Jun 27, 2024

308pirate said:
No

This ground has been tread many times before by multiple sanctioning bodies: NRA, IPSC, USPSA, NSCA (sporting clays), NRL, amongst others.

Every single one of them have ended in failure.

BTW the real shotgun sports (trap, skeet, and sporting clays) have participation numbers that are orders of magnitude greater than all rifle and pistol sports combined and they failed.

Combine the number of clubs throwing clay targets in the country plus the sheer size of the national trap, skeet, and SC tournaments if you have doubts.

Totally agree, and I'll add a couple things here:

Any hardcore amateur sport is not going to be interesting to a normie audience, and that's the only way that something can be successfully spectated (because they make up the bulk of any viewership). The only people that are going to care about a given hardcore amateur sport, are the folks directly competing in it.
- I come from the National Solo world, and they've been broadcasting their events for years on sololive. Nobody watches it, except for the people actually competing in the sport, and occasionally a family member will watch.
You don't want an amateur sport being a spectator sport. This is how sports become corrupted. Inviting that audience of non-competitors to become part of your world is ALWAYS a bad idea. Gatekeeping gets a bad rap, sometimes it's a very good thing, especially if it maintains the integrity of your sport.
- Seriously, if you want to go from a fair sport, to rigged events, start participating in spectator sports. Regular jerkoffs (the majority of your viewership) need marketing/propaganda to tell them who to root for, and it's in the sporting body's best interest to have those people that are marketed, be victorious because that is how you grow an audience.

308pirate · Jun 27, 2024

FieldGaugeFailure said:
Totally agree, and I'll add a couple things here:

Any hardcore amateur sport is not going to be interesting to a normie audience, and that's the only way that something can be successfully spectated (because they make up the bulk of any viewership). The only people that are going to care about a given hardcore amateur sport, are the folks directly competing in it.

I come from the National Solo world, and they've been broadcasting their events for years on sololive. Nobody watches it, except for the people actually competing in the sport, and occasionally a family member will watch.

You don't want an amateur sport being a spectator sport. This is how sports become corrupted. Inviting that audience of non-competitors to become part of your world is ALWAYS a bad idea. Gatekeeping gets a bad rap, sometimes it's a very good thing, especially if it maintains the integrity of your sport.

Seriously, if you want to go from a fair sport, to rigged events, start participating in spectator sports. Regular jerkoffs (the majority of your viewership) need marketing/propaganda to tell them who to root for, and it's in the sporting body's best interest to have those people that are marketed, be victorious because that is how you grow an audience.

Wish I could like this 100 times.

Totally get the Solo reference. I auto-x'd at the local level for many years before getting into shooting.

I even traveled to see the Nationals in Topeka one time (I lived in Wichita so not far) and it was a snoozefest if you're not into it. The most fun part was the RNAV approach in the fog to the Topeka airport (I flew myself and 3 other autox buddies to it)

FieldGaugeFailure · Jun 27, 2024

308pirate said:
Wish I could like this 100 times.

Totally get the Solo reference. I auto-x'd at the local level for many years before getting into shooting.

I even traveled to see the Nationals in Topeka one time (I lived in Wichita so not far) and it was a snoozefest if you're not into it. The most fun part was the RNAV approach in the fog to the Topeka airport (I flew myself and 3 other autox buddies to it)

Yep, that's when I used to run with them (full national schedule of 10+ events each year throughout the country). I ran up to a couple years after they switched Nats to Lincoln, and then, coincidentally in-line with the topic, they made some serious changes to the sport to attempt to bring in more casuals. The changes they made to the sport went directly against what the core participants wanted, but we were cast away to draw in people who wanted a less competitive atmosphere. The sport, now, doesn't resemble anything like what I used to participate in, and the entire culture of the sport has now changed, the casuals are the majority now, and now heavily govern changes within the sport itself. Basically, long story short, they ruined their sport because they made the sport more approachable.

Baron23 · Jun 27, 2024

FieldGaugeFailure said:
I come from the National Solo world, and they've been broadcasting their events for years on sololive. Nobody watches it

Yeah, sailboat races....and perhaps especially dingy races...at at least as boring a spectator sport as shooting sports.

I used to live in Annapolis and for a while raced on a J/24...in particular the Frost Bite Series after which all the participants retired to a pub in East Port to basically get hammered and watch vid of the race. Nobody else was interested.

Cheers

flogxal · Jun 27, 2024

Baron23 said:
Yeah, sailboat races....and perhaps especially dingy races...at at least as boring a spectator sport as shooting sports.

I used to live in Annapolis and for a while raced on a J/24...in particular the Frost Bite Series after which all the participants retired to a pub in East Port to basically get hammered and watch vid of the race. Nobody else was interested.

Cheers

In the mid and late 80s I spent time at Deep Creek Lake and crewed on Flying Scot races. Lots of fun to do, but I can't imagine watching it. Select moments, tight lines coming into and rounding marks -- maybe. But the strategy is so glacial and dynamic, can't imagine sitting and watching someone's tack, sheet tension, etc and then having a running commentary on it. Snoozer.

FieldGaugeFailure · Jun 27, 2024

Baron23 said:
Yeah, sailboat races....and perhaps especially dingy races...at at least as boring a spectator sport as shooting sports.

I used to live in Annapolis and for a while raced on a J/24...in particular the Frost Bite Series after which all the participants retired to a pub in East Port to basically get hammered and watch vid of the race. Nobody else was interested.

Cheers

Yep, we would do the same thing in cars. Go to a pub, have a few brews, watch each other's dash/exterior mounted cam recordings, and talk shit to each other. We would upload them to YouTube as well, and nobody would watch it except for other racers.

FieldGaugeFailure · Jun 27, 2024

Stephen Bachiler said:
"Guntubers" on YouTube seem to have taken off...I mean some dude shooting his savage Axis in his backyard is getting 500k or 1 million views..I think there has to be a way to bring these competitions to (at least) digital media.

I would think "the public" would prefer to see hanging steel targets of various sizes or maybe silhouette targets getting smacked...than holes in paper..or maybe explosive targets at distances...

Guntubers are successful because they make incredibly generic content.

Can this PSA PoS last 2000 rounds?!?
[pretending to ] Shoot a RedBull can 2400 yards
Reviewing [insert trash firearm that is the flavor of the month]

F-Class John isn't Garand Thumb. F-Class John's highest viewed video is only a fraction of the audience size of a bad Garand Thumb video.

Shooting matches are really only digestible by their direct competitors. Even tangent competitors won't fully understand/grasp neighboring shooting disciplines properly. Trying to get normal people to understand the difficulty of certain shooting positions, what is/isn't a fast engagement time, or trying to explain hit-factor to a non-match shooter, is a lost cause.

The adage of the US having more guns than people is true, but of those owners, only an incredibly small fraction actually have an understanding of shooting in general.
- An even smaller population of that already small faction have an understanding of match shooting.
  - An even smaller population of those people, have an understanding about a given series
    - Only the tip of the spear within that given series will even have a real appreciation for watching content within that small series, because they will want to view certain national competitors they will run into later that year.

brianf · Jun 27, 2024

Everything that makes sports fun to watch..shooting isnt

Most middle aged balding men with dad bods at best

No uniforms like a real sport, so the visuals are off compared to normal viewing

Location is usually at a range and most ranges are not manicured for visuals like a golf course, and most three gun ranges look like a war zone

Slooooow pace of play

No pretty women (tennis, golf, gymnastics etc)

Zero athletic ability needed...if you don’t move and free recoil..your in the running

The average person has no idea what groups size is possible at X distance. Tell someone you shoot a 4” group at 1k and they have no idea..they think rifles are like lasers and it goes where you point it.

Then you have the marketing of it; what huge sponsor is going to get behind firearms after a kid gets smoked on the news last night.

Last but not least, most “gun guys” are know it all braggarts who really dont know much. They’ll tell you about their” 270 and holding the nose of a running deer at 400 yards standing “. Or how a 50 bmg will kill you by standing next to it

Oh..and those are just posts on the hide where your supposed to have a clue..never mind everyone else

Stephen Bachiler · Jun 27, 2024

Sooo...what you are all saying is:

Naked ladies facilitating mag changes and making hit/no hit calls
Trannie freaks running around a live range during the match
Circus freaks lubing up cases

And grandmas driving Ferraris around the periphery

And explosions...

Oh and midgets and dwarfs need to be included in some way

With all that...you're saying there is a chance?

Emerson0311 · Jun 27, 2024

Stephen Bachiler said:
"Guntubers" on YouTube seem to have taken off...I mean some dude shooting his savage Axis in his backyard is getting 500k or 1 million views..I think there has to be a way to bring these competitions to (at least) digital media.

I would think "the public" would prefer to see hanging steel targets of various sizes or maybe silhouette targets getting smacked...than holes in paper..or maybe explosive targets at distances...

Most of the social media influencers are only experts in their own minds.

Emerson0311 · Jun 27, 2024

FieldGaugeFailure said:
Guntubers are successful because they make incredibly generic content.

Can this PSA PoS last 2000 rounds?!?

[pretending to ] Shoot a RedBull can 2400 yards

Reviewing [insert trash firearm that is the flavor of the month]

F-Class John isn't Garand Thumb. F-Class John's highest viewed video is only a fraction of the audience size of a bad Garand Thumb video.

Shooting matches are really only digestible by their direct competitors. Even tangent competitors won't fully understand/grasp neighboring shooting disciplines properly. Trying to get normal people to understand the difficulty of certain shooting positions, what is/isn't a fast engagement time, or trying to explain hit-factor to a non-match shooter, is a lost cause.

The adage of the US having more guns than people is true, but of those owners, only an incredibly small fraction actually have an understanding of shooting in general.

An even smaller population of that already small faction have an understanding of match shooting.

An even smaller population of those people, have an understanding about a given series

Only the tip of the spear within that given series will even have a real appreciation for watching content within that small series, because they will want to view certain national competitors they will run into later that year.

This. Most gun owners are terrified of showing how incapable they are as shooters.

hlee · Jun 27, 2024

Stephen Bachiler said:
Sooo...what you are all saying is:

Naked ladies facilitating mag changes and making hit/no hit calls
Trannie freaks running around a live range during the match
Circus freaks lubing up cases

And grandmas driving Ferraris around the periphery

And explosions...

Oh and midgets and dwarfs need to be included in some way

With all that...you're saying there is a chance?

I think you’re close. Dedicate 1/2 of the run time of every episode to competitor interview segments, where the monologue about how the unbelievable struggles of their life have culminated in them competing in this event, and that only someone with their struggles are strong enough to win.

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