If you were building a BR variant today

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Lawnboi

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Sep 30, 2019
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#1
If you were building a BR or similar 6mm variant today, with a goal of ~2000 rounds of match barrel life, and good performance out of 105 hybrids and a 24” barrel what would you choose?

Long story is I’m sick of 6 creed barrel life and feel like I should have gotten into a br variant long ago. I’ll be simply rebarreling a tikka that’s had a half dozen barrels on it now. I solely shoot suppressed, although I do have a Magnus K RR on order, and will not go over 24” on the barrel.

When I decided on 6 creed there was far less choices, not just in terms of cartridge but now with all the reamers, brass and mags out there it makes it a harder choice. Looking for input on all of it, not just cartridge head stamp.

I’m shooting mainly one day matches in the Midwest with an occasional 2 day.

So Iv got 16lbs of N140, 2500 105 hybrids a tikka action, and I really don’t want to fire form unless absolutely necessary
 
#4
Lawnboi said:
with a goal of ~2000 rounds of match barrel life, and good performance out of 105 hybrids and a 24” barrel what would you choose? So Iv got 16lbs of N140, 2500 105 hybrids a tikka action, and I really don’t want to fire form unless absolutely necessary
Click to expand...

With those requirements I'd suggest building a Dasher, use Alpha brass, run it at conservative speeds around 2800-2850 fps.

FWIW I've got both 6BRA and Dasher, but if you're going 6BRA I'd say use Lapua brass and fireform - but you don't want to fireform.
 
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#7
Straight BR with a 28” barrel will get you the maximum barrel life. But, barrel materials can vary, you may end up with 3,500 or 2,000 depending on the barrel maker/material.

If it’s got some to be 24” I’d go with the alpha dasher.
 
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#8
For you, because you have a setup that will run 6CM, I’d say 6 GT so your mags will work unmodified. If you don’t mind buying insert kits or new mags, than any of the variant will meet your needs.

I run BRA / Alpha Brass with 109s at 2800 FPS and have run several 24” barrels beyond 3000 rounds with both 105s and 109s.
 
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#10
With the N140 stockpile, BRA. My 24" BRA was a sweet setup, no recoil, super accurate. I only went with dasher this time because of an H4350 stockpile.

"But I don't want to fireform..." Don't overthink it. You load a mid-load as normal, shoot it the first time and then it's over. No jamming, no false shoulders, no fuss, and It's still accurate as heck. With 105 hybrids, I'd have no issue taking a quick chrono off the zero group, tossing that into 4DOF, and running to distance at a local match.
 
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#11
TheOfficeT-Rex said:
"But I don't want to fireform..." Don't overthink it. You load a mid-load as normal, shoot it the first time and then it's over. No jamming, no false shoulders, no fuss, and It's still accurate as heck. With 105 hybrids, I'd have no issue taking a quick chrono off the zero group, tossing that into 4DOF, and running to distance at a local match.
Click to expand...

Truth... exactly my experience with 6BRA as well.
 
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#12
TheOfficeT-Rex said:
With the N140 stockpile, BRA. My 24" BRA was a sweet setup, no recoil, super accurate. I only went with dasher this time because of an H4350 stockpile.

"But I don't want to fireform..." Don't overthink it. You load a mid-load as normal, shoot it the first time and then it's over. No jamming, no false shoulders, no fuss, and It's still accurate as heck. With 105 hybrids, I'd have no issue taking a quick chrono off the zero group, tossing that into 4DOF, and running to distance at a local match.
Click to expand...

Is there something wrong with Alpha BRA brass??

Why the need to fire form?
 
#13
Alpha bra brass is perfect. Maybe a little mouth chamfer and it’s ready out of the box. And that primer pocket is “chef’s kiss” as the youngsters say.

Lapua br brass fire forming is a non event. The case dimensions make it possible to fireform with no false shoulder or bullet jam and the accuracy and consistency is match-worthy during the process.
 
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#14
Hickswr said:
Is there something wrong with Alpha BRA brass??

Why the need to fire form?
Click to expand...

I have no personal experience with it. I remember something about some issue or another when it first came out, but I've always run lapua so I never looked that hard. I'm sure their stuff now is great, I have some of their dasher and creed brass. All the top brands make fine brass.
 
#16
I've had quite a few br barrels and while accuracy and barrel life is awesome I get beat up in the wind past 800y. Id go dasher and shoot 109s around 2875-2920fps if it was me. I went back to the creed case and shoot heavies in .25 and 6.5 now. Now instead of missing at distance due to wind I miss because I have been lazy on fundamentals and a br let's you get away with that
 
#22
Sheldon N said:
The Alpha BRA issues I read about weren't in regard to neck diameter, it was a bit more complicated than that.
Click to expand...
That thread is so full of misinformation, poorly executed analyses, nonsense and speculation that it makes the head spin.

Using alpha brass in a chamber cut with an “alpha reamer” (which anyone under the age of 70 and chambering PRS barrels is using) and a die from a reasonable source is foolproof.

My first several BRA barrels, starting in 2014, were cut using the old-style reamer and had tight necks. I used a semi-custom sizing die that was selected to match my fired brass’ base diameter. It worked great.

When I switched to prefits as Alpha started making BRA brass, they were chambered with the “alpha reamer”. My fired Lapua brass wouldn’t chamber and my sizing die left the cases too fat. I switched to the alpha brass and got a new die that hadn’t been hand selected to a different chamber and lo and behold, it’s back to easy-peasy. Several barrels and 4000 rounds fired on my first batch of 500 pieces of brass and I’ve never had an issue.
 
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#23
6bra for sure with the n140 stock pile. Having run 1 br and 2 bra’s I just slightly prefer the bra but both are exceptionally capable rounds with good barrel life. My first bra barrel died at 3000 rounds, my second one is currently at 1200 or so while my br has 900 on it at the moment.
 
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#24
OREGUN said:
That thread is so full of misinformation, poorly executed analyses, nonsense and speculation that it makes the head spin.
Click to expand...

I find that whole forum that way. There are just enough gems to occasionally wade through the dogpiles.

OREGUN said:
Using alpha brass in a chamber cut with an “alpha reamer” (which anyone under the age of 70 and chambering PRS barrels is using) and a die from a reasonable source is foolproof.
Click to expand...

I had a wheeler #1 with a 272 no turn neck. I don't know how the alpha differs as I haven't seen their print, but I can't imagine a prefit coming out with anything other than those two reamers these days. Not out of a major shop, at least.

If OP picks dasher - I think the alpha has a different shoulder radius on it, as SAC makes a different shoulder bushing for the alpha reamer. Again, I haven't seen the print or looked too closely.
 
#25
When I was faced with this question in 2019 the BR feeding was still an issue and mag kits were not common yet. I went 6mm GT. Ran 32.5 grains of Varget for 2830fps with 109 Hybrids in a 26" Benchmark chambered with an alpha .120 reamer for 3200 good rounds and nearly 3600 before it lost velocity in a big way and groups would open up significantly after 30-40 shots from clean.

Second barrel was a 24" Bartlein mod 400 chambered with a alpha .120 reamer, used the same load and got 2810fps with it. I stopped using it at 3200 for matches but it was still working well.

Third barrel that was a 26" proof 7 twist but with the .170 freebore alpha reamer and started off at 2870 with 32.5 of RL15.5, dropped it down to 32 grains for 2855fps. Had some issues with fouling and eventually moved back to Varget at 32 grains for 2850fps and stopped using it at just over 3000. This saw a combo 110 A-Tips and 108 elite hunters as 109's became hard to find in quantity.

Switched to another Proof 26" 7 twist with .170 reamer and now have around 2400 round on it using the same 32 grains of varget and 108 Berger EH at 2850ish.

If I was to start fresh now with no dies or brass, I'd probably just go straight 6BR and run 105/109's in the 2750-2770 range. I have match buddies who do that and are getting 2K+ rounds of service life. I want to say it's 3K or more but don't recall at the moment.
 
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#26
OREGUN said:
That thread is so full of misinformation, poorly executed analyses, nonsense and speculation that it makes the head spin
Click to expand...

There's a bit of that on that forum, but the thread also has good info from the people who were instrumental in making the BRA as popular as it is today and who worked directly with Alpha during the development of the brass. It also brings to light the same issue that you had with your barrel. The ideal is a smaller base diameter chamber and a smaller base diameter die to align with Alpha brass dimensions and composition, but those don't match up well with the larger chambers/dies which are all based around the Wheeler #1 reamer. All my BRA's from three different gunsmiths (prefits and customs) have been larger base diameter chambers.

Coming full circle to the OP's question, my own takeaway is that if someone is wanting a "no fireform" option for a BR based case where they can use Alpha brass I would recommend going Dasher. If they want to run BRA I would recommend fireforming Lapua since the FF rounds are easy and they shoot amazing.
 
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#27
Hickswr said:
Is there something wrong with Alpha BRA brass??

Why the need to fire form?
Click to expand...

I've ran 2 sets of Alpha, 500 pieces each. There's a few threads on AS that hash out the Alpha BRA problem so I'm not going to type that all out.
Both sets of my Alpha had bolt lift on the first firing over 2850 ish. Long story short the alpha brass in a Lapua reamer the brass is small at the base and not "grabbing" the chamber and thrusting into the bolt.
In my case a die that didn't size the base much got rid of the bolt lift. Oversize the base and the bolt lift came back.

A Harrels D1 with .090" off the base of the die is what you want. A Micron is a close second but 2-3x the $

The Alpha reamer is supposed to be the cure for the alpha BRA brass but I've not tried it. A lot of people likely caused their own problems running Lapua loads in Alpha brass as well over pressuring it right off the bat.

The Lapua fireforms easy and very accurately.
29.5 g of Reloder 15 and a 105 lightly jammed has always gave 2-3" five shot groups in my bench guns @ 600 yards.

I've ran several thousand pieces of Lapua and it would be my first pick but would not be afraid to buy Alpha if I could buy it new from someone selling it off at a small discount shipped. I'm not going to pay full $ plus tax and shipping.
My experience with the Alpha is in bench guns running the 2880 or 2960 nodes not the typically slower PRS nodes but I think the first firing bolt lift would still be present at those velocities in a Lapua reamer chamber.
The Alpha can be and is every bit as accurate as the Lapua and holds the IBS 10 shot Heavy Gun world record 2.***" at 1000 yards.
 
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#28
Good things to hear. Makes it even more confusing.

Part of the reason I even ask is the advent of alpha br/variant brass . I have heard of issues. I use some alpha and bolt thrust with it has been a little bit of an irritant, but it hasn’t been unusable.

Sounds like I need to order a blank, some lapua br brass and send it off to someone who builds brs for PRs shooters.

All the input is appreciated. I don’t have the time or money to make any mistake on this barrel.
 
#29
Lawnboi said:
Good things to hear. Makes it even more confusing.

Part of the reason I even ask is the advent of alpha br/variant brass . I have heard of issues. I use some alpha and bolt thrust with it has been a little bit of an irritant, but it hasn’t been unusable.

Sounds like I need to order a blank, some lapua br brass and send it off to someone who builds brs for PRs shooters.

All the input is appreciated. I don’t have the time or money to make any mistake on this barrel.
Click to expand...
Not as confusing as it seems. Knowing what I know now after12+ barrels and 1500 rounds per I'd go Lapua with a Wheeler 1 chamber and a Harrels D1 die with .090" off the base.

If I were to go Alpha brass I'd use the Alpha Reamer and a smaller based die like a Forster non bushing. I can't speak from experience that combo works but many
have.

If a guy is going to keep it under 2900 I'd just go with the straight BR.

I hear guys say they need the BRA or Dasher for the wind then they say they're running it 2850 or slower??? What's the advantage over the straight BR there?
 
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#30
dhuf said:
I hear guys say they need the BRA or Dasher for the wind then they say they're running it 2850 or slower??? What's the advantage over the straight BR there?
Click to expand...

It's so you can run lower pressures which is easier on the brass and the entire system. Gun needs to work 100% even in filthy dusty windy grit as well as in downpour rain and mud.

You can obviously run a bigger case like a GT or Creed at the same low speed/pressures and that works good too, but the BR cases just shoot better with less powder and less recoil.
 
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#31
I definitely agree with that but I've never hammered straight BR cases at the velocities many claim to be running.

I've ran BRAs over 3000 in bench guns for the life of a barrel and not loosened up pockets but more often than not I'm running 2880ish because that's where they almost always shoot the smallest and it's a wider more forgiving node.
 
#34
Dasher or BRA. At the moderate speeds you should shoot either at, its 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other. You say you don't want to fireform, but with BRA its fireforming, but not really. No bullet jam, false shoulders, etc. Just dump 30gr of Varget and stuff a 105 on top and shoot it. You'll likely have match accuracy and end up with BRA brass.

The choice for you between BRA and Dasher isn't performance, its brass. Just chamber one and shoot.
 
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#36
OREGUN said:
That thread is so full of misinformation, poorly executed analyses, nonsense and speculation that it makes the head spin.

Using alpha brass in a chamber cut with an “alpha reamer” (which anyone under the age of 70 and chambering PRS barrels is using) and a die from a reasonable source is foolproof.

My first several BRA barrels, starting in 2014, were cut using the old-style reamer and had tight necks. I used a semi-custom sizing die that was selected to match my fired brass’ base diameter. It worked great.

When I switched to prefits as Alpha started making BRA brass, they were chambered with the “alpha reamer”. My fired Lapua brass wouldn’t chamber and my sizing die left the cases too fat. I switched to the alpha brass and got a new die that hadn’t been hand selected to a different chamber and lo and behold, it’s back to easy-peasy. Several barrels and 4000 rounds fired on my first batch of 500 pieces of brass and I’ve never had an issue.
Click to expand...
Just ordered a Pre-Fit 6 Dasher from stuteville precision for impact. I have a Redding type s bushing die using alpha brass, is this a good combo? After reading this thread I'm so confused on die choice.
 
#37
Jarhead94 said:
Just ordered a Pre-Fit 6 Dasher from stuteville precision for impact. I have a Redding type s bushing die using alpha brass, is this a good combo? After reading this thread I'm so confused on die choice.
Click to expand...
It should work just fine. Wade cuts a great chamber and there’s nothing wrong with Redding type s dies. The confusion really has more to do with BRA chamber sizes. Dasher will be more foolproof.
 
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#41
I am liking straight 6BR because I am only pushing 105s to a little over 2800 or so and while fireforming isn't really a big deal, I like the idea of just being able to buy more alpha or lapua brass etc and keep chugging along. I have a bunch of Alpha 6BR brass I am working through but I can change to lapua and buy more of this or that without having to fireform.

I won't use alpha reamers as they are carbide. I like JGS on my own print. I like HSS and low RPM.
 
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#42
I’m in the weeds on this now.

Iv got 2 blanks coming.

I’m not buying any more alpha brass. All the alpha I have is consistent but honestly dosnt preform like lapua or Peterson has for me.

It would be easy if lapua was an available.

I’m going to keep an eye out for lapua until one of my blanks arrives. After that I’m calling the smith I would like to use and asking his advice on the rest of it.

I do appreciate all the advice.
 
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#44
Brass is the bastard right now. And is currently my hang up, as I don’t want to have the same issue with this as I do my 6 creed alpha brass.

Been thinking more about GT as well. Iv also got plenty of h4350.

Anyone use an alpha reamer, alpha gt brass and a SAC GT die?
 
#45
Lawnboi said:
Brass is the bastard right now. And is currently my hang up, as I don’t want to have the same issue with this as I do my 6 creed alpha brass.

Been thinking more about GT as well. Iv also got plenty of h4350.

Anyone use an alpha reamer, alpha gt brass and a SAC GT die?
Click to expand...
What’s wrong with the Alpha 6 creed brass?
 
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