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Secret Service “JAR” rifle
- Thread starter RemCustom6
- Start date
Mk13 mod 7 uses a Stiller Mk13 action and slighty diff AI chassis than the Countersniper rifles. The SS CS rifles use a Remington action. They are very similar in appearance at a glance but not the same.
Likely the gen 1 cole-tac cheat sheet, the nylon+velcro isn't very stiff. Doesn't take much of a nudge to knock mine into that position.
Cheat Sheet V2 | Cole-TAC Outdoor Gear
The Cheat Sheet from Cole-TAC offers the perfect way to keep your important data in clear view. By mounting the Cheat Sheet directly to your scope, you can easily see your DOPE without having to break your position. This simple but effective design works on all optics and can be…
www.cole-tac.com
Several years ago I shot a coastal blacktail deer, at about 60 yards, just above the nose with a pretty spicy 140 gr Barnes TSX from a 270 winchester. You couldn’t even see the entrance wound in the “trophy pic.” The exit wound was approximately the size of a walnut, and the brain had been removed. The scull had broken in a couple of places- including the “skull cap” between the antlers. I had to push the eyes back into the sockets, but the picture of the dead deer showed essentially no damage.
If the bullet from the counter sniper indeed impacted the shooter in the mouth, it is possible that the worst of the outwardly visible signs of damage (eyes dangling from their “stalks”) was avoided.
That said, bullets do weird things sometimes and the visible signs of trauma can’t always be predicted.
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Bet they're already sold out ;-)Likely the gen 1 cole-tac cheat sheet, the nylon+velcro isn't very stiff. Doesn't take much of a nudge to knock mine into that position.
Cheat Sheet V2 | Cole-TAC Outdoor Gear
The Cheat Sheet from Cole-TAC offers the perfect way to keep your important data in clear view. By mounting the Cheat Sheet directly to your scope, you can easily see your DOPE without having to break your position. This simple but effective design works on all optics and can be…
The newest hot accessory since the cat-tail and claw feet! I mean... since Saturday that is!
Thanks! As always, the Vintage Section is where the real dope is !!
Sirhr
The Gen 1 versions will likely climb in value LoL
At close range a .300 Win Mag in the mouth is going into a big air pocket. And then into medulla/spine area. At such a high-velocity that it will not even begin to expand.
The damage will be really limited, IMHO. The bullet will zip through a very small amount of flesh without having the time to create huge hydrostatic shock. If the hit had been in the nose'bridge/upper cranial area, the whole skull would evacuate. But the mouth shot is a big air pocket with not much behind it.
IMHO, damage is commensurate with a high velocity hit from any number of fast bullets in the mouth. At that angle, it was probably a perfect medulla shot. Lights out... thanks for playing. Game over.
Sirhr
300 with a tungsten bullet....
Frank G could probably get that verified by his source that gets barrels from him if he wanted to add in. Frank would probably be told the same thing that came to us.
Frank G could probably get that verified by his source that gets barrels from him if he wanted to add in. Frank would probably be told the same thing that came to us.
@Lowlight pick up the white courtesy phone. Lowlight... there is a call on the white courtesy phone.
Sirhr
Fr
Not Frank Midget
Sumboddyz reading comprehension skillz... hmmm
Frank Green..
Not Frank Midget
Sumboddyz reading comprehension skillz... hmmm
Frank Green is already here... He'll weigh in and I never question his judgement. Talk about the varsity!
And I remember that FG mentioned that 6.5 is the current barrel of choice for the USSS guns. And honestly I don't know the latest versions or calibers. Heck, I was still thinking the USSS was using 7mm Mags. Which were really popular when Pablo went all 'rooftop ornament.' Ummmmm 7mm mag!
But since the HMFWIC is pretty plugged into the community. And managed to send us photos of the 'dental work' within minutes of the shot... I figure he 'might' have something add. Never seen him come up short with info... Yes, I went there.
There ya go!
Sirhr
I haven't heard back yet. I tried 3 different guys. Only one got back to me. He did say that they still have some 300wm guns in service but not sure what was used. He got back to me in like 15 minutes.
In addition to the 6.5 barrels we've made, we did make some shorty 308 barrels and a few longer 30cal barrels in the last year + but the bigger numbers have been 6.5's.
I think no one will say anything for a while at least. Too much investigation stuff going on.
So....?
We have guys on the site who work for/train USSS snipers but I doubt they will post about the stuff. Super interesting none the less.
When you guys are done cloning the SS JAR, try cloning the one the shooter used:
Just a flex....
Rem 700 LA
Schneider Max Heavy Contour Barrel - 7mm Rem Mag
M40 Recoil Lug
McMillan A3 stock with 3 way adjustable butt stock
Badger Scope base and Max Rings (waiting on the SIMRAD Cap from Marty)
Harris Bipod
Leupold Mark 4 10x Scope, M1 turrets, Mildot Reticle.
This is the specs I got a few years ago - Not sure it's 100% spec but it's close enough for me
Rem 700 LA
Schneider Max Heavy Contour Barrel - 7mm Rem Mag
M40 Recoil Lug
McMillan A3 stock with 3 way adjustable butt stock
Badger Scope base and Max Rings (waiting on the SIMRAD Cap from Marty)
Harris Bipod
Leupold Mark 4 10x Scope, M1 turrets, Mildot Reticle.
This is the specs I got a few years ago - Not sure it's 100% spec but it's close enough for me
Or the gun is smaller than you expect! Concealed carry
Lapua makes some gnarly leo letter ammo.. I don't know which one they have. I think it was a Barnes bullet though.
Really irks me about not having the tall railed riser on the Ops Inc diving board. 
Looks like SS SC wants a new rifle
www.twz.com
Secret Service Wants New Sniper Rifles
The new modular rifles will be able to quickly switch among four different cartridges and will feature a two-to-three-pound trigger pull.
www.twz.com
“The guns also have to be capable of being configured for right and left-handed shooters.”Looks like SS SC wants a new rifle
Secret Service Wants New Sniper Rifles
The new modular rifles will be able to quickly switch among four different cartridges and will feature a two-to-three-pound trigger pull.
Huh?
I think the McMillan Alias has an ambi bolt that can be installed for left hand or right hand shooters. So perhaps they're looking for something similar...
It's the same thing they used to disqualify the Desert Tech in the PSR/ASR program.
It takes months to put together an RFP, but the timing is interesting. Pure speculation but considering the off-the shelf accuracy of some systems, it doesn't make sense for the USSG to stay with R700 actions.
From the eval criteria: "Weapon manufacturer and model information markings will be obscured from user (via duct tape)." Like the shooters won't know an AXSR from an MRAD, geez...
ETA - The RFP doesn't seem slanted towards a specific manufacturer, but there is a max weight as configured of 16lbs. I think the MRAD weighs in at 14.5 and the AXSR at 16.2? Also a specific quality requirement of "Quality Control/Quality Assurance Plan: The Offeror shall provide either their DoD DMCA Certification or ISO/9000 Certification, in addition to a brief, detailed narrative on their production quality control and quality assurance practices, including the equipment used to control the quality of the weapons produced. "
From the eval criteria: "Weapon manufacturer and model information markings will be obscured from user (via duct tape)." Like the shooters won't know an AXSR from an MRAD, geez...
ETA - The RFP doesn't seem slanted towards a specific manufacturer, but there is a max weight as configured of 16lbs. I think the MRAD weighs in at 14.5 and the AXSR at 16.2? Also a specific quality requirement of "Quality Control/Quality Assurance Plan: The Offeror shall provide either their DoD DMCA Certification or ISO/9000 Certification, in addition to a brief, detailed narrative on their production quality control and quality assurance practices, including the equipment used to control the quality of the weapons produced. "
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I can't speak for the AXSR at the moment, but the MRAD, scoped with the Mark 5 HD and Badger rings with a 17" 308 barrel weighs 16.04lbs.
With the Norma Mag barrels fitted, the AXSR from memory is slightly heavier than MRAD but most of that is probably in the Optic being the ATACR.
If I was a betting man, i'd be hedging my betts on the MRAD. Literally everyone uses it. It's won every contract it's gone for except the Canadians and Australians.... but those countries aren't really seen to have their shit together when it comes to guns....
Edit:
I know it's excluded directly because of the non-leftie bolt offering, but I wish DT SRS got more of a look in. It's lighter than the others and as accurate
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I’d bet MRAD too. USSS probably hires the same long arm gorillas coming out of SOCOM.
Not a swipe at USSS, just the long fucking LOP of the Barrett…
Not a swipe at USSS, just the long fucking LOP of the Barrett…
Agreed. That gave me a lot teething issues with the MRAD. Got is square now and i'm loving it, but god damn... WHY 14" MINIMUM!?
“The bolt-action rifles have to be readily convertible between four calibers: .300 Winchester Magnum, .300 Norma Magnum, .300 Precision Rifle Cartridge (PRC), and .308 Winchester.”
Seems a bit redundant doesnt it?
Guess maybe they are undecided on one of those three magnum cartridges and want to use this opportunity to test out which one meets the need.
Seems a bit redundant doesnt it?
Guess maybe they are undecided on one of those three magnum cartridges and want to use this opportunity to test out which one meets the need.
Looks like SS SC wants a new rifle
Secret Service Wants New Sniper Rifles
The new modular rifles will be able to quickly switch among four different cartridges and will feature a two-to-three-pound trigger pull.
Seems to be a lot of overlap in the cartridge selection.
I wonder what's driving that choice?
It is interesting considering the number of 6.5 barrels @Frank Green alluded shipping to SS above. The Magnus SR-30 can they are going to put on them probably explains the 30 cal fixation.
Not related to the SS, but some of our different blokes were trialling both 6.5 and 6mm Creedmoor in the bolt guns.
We tested both down to 16.5" barrel and the 6.5 143gr ELD-X was the best performer for energy on target, range and hit probability.
Not sure what their thoughts were over-all or if they had an end goal but its interesting that the 6.5s are being looked at as a replacement for the 308s
Edit: I was thinking barrel length, instead of LOP. My mistake, I just deleted this post because it's not relevant to this discussion.
A $3.1 BILLION annual budget is probably the instigation for purchasing shiny new toys for startled Secret Service super snipers.
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Thats good info, but we are talking LOP, not barrel length. The MRADs have a 14" minimum LOP ands its uncomfortable when you're used to shorter.
Ahh, ok, I completely missed the LOP part and just assumed the 14" was the barrel length! That's what I get for just skimming shit and not actually reading it. I don't think I've ever discussed LOP with anyone, ever, so I immediately thought that was the barrel length. My first thought went to what they did with the CSR, and I just assumed they wanted that capability. My mistake, please disregard my post. Maybe someday my info will be relevant if they ever decide to use shorter barrels, lol.
Does the RFP include tripods optimized for sloped roofs?
The MRAD is a good system. The caliber choices are odd, but I think the point above is that they want to test and maybe have flexibility in final choices… or a lot of options.
Though I’d just go with .300NM rather than .300 WM. But maybe they like the ammo choices better with “old Reliable.”
Timing of RFP is interesting but as was said above… the RFI to RFP to RFQ process is months or years. This didn’t happen last week.
Cheers!
The MRAD is a good system. The caliber choices are odd, but I think the point above is that they want to test and maybe have flexibility in final choices… or a lot of options.
Though I’d just go with .300NM rather than .300 WM. But maybe they like the ammo choices better with “old Reliable.”
Timing of RFP is interesting but as was said above… the RFI to RFP to RFQ process is months or years. This didn’t happen last week.
Cheers!
My pre-2014 “handguard” doesn’t look like the ones on the black chassis in the pics. I have a green/black chassis.
Mine is tapered and a plastic. These look metal with no taper and a deeper, wider scallop.
Is that an aftermarket piece?
Mine is tapered and a plastic. These look metal with no taper and a deeper, wider scallop.
Is that an aftermarket piece?
I don't get why so many different magnum calibers in 30cal... 300WM, 300 Norma and 300PRC? Pretty much all do the same thing.
I can see to some extent a multi caliber gun... 308win, 6.5CM and pick one magnum round.
If deploying in two man teams... why not have a guy with a dedicated say short/mid range rifle in 308win or a 6.5CM and the other guy with a dedicated long range gun a 300 mag?
What I see offhand... the main gun builder/armorer is retiring anytime now. So they want a plug and play system is what I'm reading into. By a modular rifle and just get a replacement barrel from the gun manufacturer.
So what happens when there is an issue with the rifle? You have to send it back to the manufacturer to diagnose it? Look what's happening to the USMC Scout Snipers... the 12's (gunsmiths) are basically done and it sounds like will drop back to being just a basic armorer. I think we are losing a lot of skill sets that if needed down the road sometime in the future will not get replaced/back up and running in a short time period.
I'd say no to a 6mm caliber gun. Sorry but in my opinion just to light of a caliber for anti people round (but it's a better choice than a 5.56 caliber gun) and if the wind is blowing to some extent... the 6.5 will give you an edge over the 6mm.
Just my random thoughts.
Later, Frank
That's why they want the rrs lock so that the rifles don't slide off the tripod. Duh.
So the caliber used by the ss guy was in fact a 300wm. Not our barrel. Was a barrel they still had in inventory when that rifle was put together before starting to order from us. Bullet was a 215 Berger.
How's that for some intel!?
How's that for some intel!?
Frank,
You've probably been through the RFI to RFP process and know you're dealing with too many Chiefs and not enough Indians, and then you add in the contracting officer. Everyone has a good idea and everyone is championing a position that somehow ends up in the RFP versus actual use cases.
________________________________________________________
IIRC, the RFP states the submissions will only be accuracy tested using 300WM, other calibers are for technical / functional testing only.
Makes sense to go to a commercial system. The time, work and skills sets necessary to keep building/repairing rifles, when at least two commercial offerings do the same out-of-the-box, makes no sense these days. Issue a rifle to each sniper that only they use throughout it's duty span.
Interesting on weight of the rifles capped at 16lbs. Wonder if that was particularly written for the MRAD. If so, and I was AI, I'd be sending in questions to the govt. as well as concerns about arbitrary specifications limiting competition.
Lastly, the testing regime is interesting. Seems focused on barrel life (1600rds) and tested using a 175fps reduction in speed from the original speed readings when first fired and captures using an Oehler screen chrono. No regard for the barrel possibly speeding up or that the compact radar systems are available (is the Oehler 85 that good)?
/My 2 cents off
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The Oehler 85 is a very good system but it's a lab system. Not a field system like a Garmin in my opinion.
If the gun/barrel is being tested in a lab and there is a barrel speed up that's going to be up to the operator seeing it and recording the data. Also goes back to cleaning, lot of ammo blah blah blah.
The testing being done with the 7/6.5PRC pressure barrel we made after 200+ rounds right now the data I have is the barrel has only picked up 45fps and pressure has gone up 4500psi. Once all testing is complete... they will take the original ammo that set the baseline for everything and be rerun thru the barrel to confirm those numbers and again to confirm if the barrel really did see a pickup.
But if they are just testing random guns out in the field how good is the data going to be? I'll say not the greatest as there are just too many variables and what data are they watching/collecting.
I get the point about buying a commercial system and not needing a gunsmith etc... but my concern is... if there is a problem with the rifle and let's say you have no spares to hand out on the spot... there is no one to look at and fix the rifle etc... it's got to go all the way back to the manufacturer then. What's the turn around time to diagnose and repair etc... Your losing a skill set that to me is vital. They better have a system in place to take care of it right away if there are no back up rifles sitting in a locker.
I don't get the weight limit of 16#'s either.
I feel it's going to come down to who's writing the spec and what they like regardless of what testing is done... it's what they like is what's going to get picked. Seen it happen to many times.
Not sure if AI is going to submit etc...
From your description (send pics?) you have the factory plastic palm rest/grip. The JARs pictured have on RRS ARCA plates (model BAXR15 specifically), an aftermarket replacement for the factory part.
Awesome. I built mine as a quasi-mod7. The mk13 chassis were still available then for like $1500, but I have so many tan and black rifles I couldn’t do it again. I should have, would have been easier in the long run, and cost the same.
That said, maybe I sell the Stiller Mk13 action and swap over to a JAR build. I never shoot the damn thing. 20 rounds over the last 5 years. Would be an easy transition and maybe I’d shoot it…
