Parker Hale M82 Clone

#101
sandwarrior said:
The 7x57 can do 2700 with 168's no question. Powder and barrel length help a lot. That's the highest I could shoot as my 7x57's have looser twists that won't stabilize 175's.
The original 7x57's did almost 2500 (2460~ish?)with 173 gr. bullets. They were toned down a bit as most military rounds are. I say most as 5.56 is NOT toned down. Also, way better powders are available for it now.

As far as I know, the Brazilian Marines have not fired them (M85) in anger. The Malaysian Paskal have. Insurrections and radical islamic activity have required their use. 'Where and when' are not known specifically. Only that they were used. Those are the only two 'known' units to adopt them.

However, SAS had also adopted them (unofficially) in limited numbers and supposedly they were used in hostilities. The 'where and when' of those is still classified, IF they were used.
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As always @sandwarrior .. your replies are much appreciated sir! Especially on most things Mauser related! Thanks

Did Parker Hale produce their own barrels in house? Or possibly sourced them from the likes of Schultz & Larsen, Lothar Walther, Tikka/Sako, FN, or one of the other main Euro barrel makers?
Don’t wanna speak too soon.. but y’all very well could possibly be talking to the newest hiree at Bergara barrels! They have two entry level positions open right down the road from me and im sure im getting on their nerves at this point in repeatedly asking for a interview 😂 …and I’ll be starting CNC and Manual machinist classes this summer to begin my journey to my dream job of barrel maker! MPA also ain’t too terribly far away from me.I’d prefer to get in with a cut rifling operation but beggers can’t be choosers, I just want my foot in the door at this point. Nothing wrong with a good button rifled tube! And if/when I get on at Bergara, you can guarantee I’ll put every ounce of effort into each barrel as if they were going on a rifle that I’d be required to defend my life with.
 
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#102
Forgetful Coyote said:
As always @sandwarrior .. your replies are much appreciated sir! Especially on most things Mauser related! Thanks

Did Parker Hale produce their own barrels in house? Or possibly sourced them from the likes of Schultz & Larsen, Lothar Walther, Tikka/Sako, FN, or one of the other main Euro barrel makers?
Don’t wanna speak too soon.. but y’all very well could possibly be talking to the newest hiree at Bergara barrels! They have two entry level positions open right down the road from me and im sure im getting on their nerves at this point in repeatedly asking for a interview 😂 …and I’ll be starting CNC and Manual machinist classes this summer to begin my journey to my dream job of barrel maker! MPA also ain’t too terribly far away from me.I’d prefer to get in with a cut rifling operation but beggers can’t be choosers, I just want my foot in the door at this point. Nothing wrong with a good button rifled tube! And if/when I get on at Bergara, you can guarantee I’ll put every ounce of effort into each barrel as if they were going on a rifle that I’d be required to defend my life with.
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The M82’s I used in the army (Australian) had Parker hale branded barrels, no indications or stamps on them to indicated a different manufacturer. C3’s may have been completely different. Our barrels did not hold up all that well, used to burn out way faster than my civilian target rifle shooting the same ammo too.
 
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#103
BigKev72 said:
The M82’s I used in the army (Australian) had Parker hale branded barrels, no indications or stamps on them to indicated a different manufacturer. C3’s may have been completely different. Our barrels did not hold up all that well, used to burn out way faster than my civilian target rifle shooting the same ammo too.
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I wasn't aware the barrels weren't lasting. I never used them for training though, either (U.S. Army). From what I know (or think I know), those are Parker Hale 'in house' barrels. C3's same thing.

Curious to know, if you recall, were the actions bedded during your time in?
 
#104
sandwarrior said:
I wasn't aware the barrels weren't lasting. I never used them for training though, either (U.S. Army). From what I know (or think I know), those are Parker Hale 'in house' barrels. C3's same thing.

Curious to know, if you recall, were the actions bedded during your time in?
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Yes. Our armourers generally bedded them with devcon. Aluminium putty.
 
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#105
BigKev72 said:
Yes. Our armourers generally bedded them with devcon. Aluminium putty.
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It makes me wonder that if your barrels weren't holding up, could that be the reason that later on the M85 didn't win the sniper rifle competition in England? I know I've heard of the flexibility of the L96 in comparison, but it could have been armorers looking at the barrels after the testing? From my understanding those were in-house barrels as well.

A kind of sideline timeline to go by, in 1991 I was in logging. The mill company (70 mills) we worked for went bankrupt. The guy who owned those mills had bought tons of Parker Hale rifles under his U.S. business, Kimber of Oregon, and imported them to the U.S.

I was told by a guy who used to be on here a lot, that when Parker Hale went out of business, a group of employees got the barrel making equipment and started Border Barrels. Not sure on the date on that though. 1990?
 
#106
sandwarrior said:
It makes me wonder that if your barrels weren't holding up, could that be the reason that later on the M85 didn't win the sniper rifle competition in England? I know I've heard of the flexibility of the L96 in comparison, but it could have been armorers looking at the barrels after the testing? From my understanding those were in-house barrels as well.

A kind of sideline timeline to go by, in 1991 I was in logging. The mill company (70 mills) we worked for went bankrupt. The guy who owned those mills had bought tons of Parker Hale rifles under his U.S. business, Kimber of Oregon, and imported them to the U.S.

I was told by a guy who used to be on here a lot, that when Parker Hale went out of business, a group of employees got the barrel making equipment and started Border Barrels. Not sure on the date on that though. 1990?
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We had looked at the M85’s for a while. I got to spend some time on the range with one and liked it quite well. However when it came down to actually purchasing and deploying them the powers that be decided for whatever reasons that they were not a significant improvement over the M82 and not worth changing.
 
#107
BigKev72 said:
We had looked at the M85’s for a while. I got to spend some time on the range with one and liked it quite well. However when it came down to actually purchasing and deploying them the powers that be decided for whatever reasons that they were not a significant improvement over the M82 and not worth changing.
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The stupid thing was the ammunition needed changing for improvement. 7.62 is the fat kid at the racetrack. A lot of better cartridges out there that won’t get looked because it means getting away from 7.62.
 
#108
sandwarrior said:
The stupid thing was the ammunition needed changing for improvement. 7.62 is the fat kid at the racetrack. A lot of better cartridges out there that won’t get looked because it means getting away from 7.62.
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I won’t argue with that. But for our/my purposes I have always been very happy with the old fat girl. I have shot out to 1300 yards very accurately with the old warhorse I have shot possibles in competition with my old civvy target rifle at 1200. I realize that it is useless as udders on a bull for ELR shooting but for international level target shooting it did the job. A lot of how the 7.62 NATO round shoots depends on the skill and training with which one sends it off. If you know your business and know how to read wind, light, mirage and all of the other fun bits then you can accomplish a lot. We used to hit the range with rifles, ammo and spotting scopes and breeze in 1000 yard shoots. Never did I use a kestrel, ballistic calculator or even a mil master. Granted those things are all great tools and had they been available back in those days I’m sure they would have been making our lives much better. The reality was that we didn’t and we still managed to make shots that would embarrass some of the folks who frequent ranges and forums these days. It’s not the round most of the time, it’s the correct application of the round.
 
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#110
aprocast said:
Kev is Australia still using 144 grain ball, or did you have better ammo
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Lol yep they were when I was there. I moved to the US in ‘93 and don’t know what they are doing these days. The L2A2 ball ammo was good stuff though. Very very very consistent. Won a lot of comps with that stuff back in the day. But even then it was rare as rocking horse shit and I imagine it is unobtanium now.

Sorry to the OP, we seem to have digressed from the path a little.
 
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#111
BigKev72 said:
Lol yep they were when I was there. I moved to the US in ‘93 and don’t know what they are doing these days. The L2A2 ball ammo was good stuff though. Very very very consistent. Won a lot of comps with that stuff back in the day. But even then it was rare as rocking horse shit and I imagine it is unobtanium now.

Sorry to the OP, we seem to have digressed from the path a little.
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Not really. For every rifle, there needs to be ammunition. Good ammo is key to good shooting. You've probably heard the phrase, "It ain't the arrow, it's the Indian." Truthfully, I've yet to see any really good Indians shoot crooked arrows straight. Arrows mismatched to the bow is the same thing..

So I have to ask, as I think I've been told this already, do you know what twists your M82 and the M85 you tested were?
 
#112
sandwarrior said:
Not really. For every rifle, there needs to be ammunition. Good ammo is key to good shooting. You've probably heard the phrase, "It ain't the arrow, it's the Indian." Truthfully, I've yet to see any really good Indians shoot crooked arrows straight. Arrows mismatched to the bow is the same thing..

So I have to ask, as I think I've been told this already, do you know what twists your M82 and the M85 you tested were?
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I do not for sure. I believe that the M82 was 1:10 but I cannot for the life of me recall any details on the M85. It was not something that I invested in heavily, it was more of a hand to me and give me your impressions situation. We did a little cursory training and familiarization on it but nothing very in depth.

I went digging. Found some very old paperwork I had stashed in a bag. Twist rate was 1:12.
 
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#113
aprocast said:
Kev is Australia still using 144 grain ball, or did you have better ammo
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The SR98 was used with 170gn Lapua Lockbase ammo.

As far as whether the 144’s still exist I’m not sure as I’ve been out for 10 years, but not for sniper rifles even when I left.

I did see some M80 ball/link but that was all for Mag58’s , from memory was FN manufactured. Must have been a shortage of F4.
 
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#118
As far as I know a UK company called Armalon brought the cold hammer forging barrel machinery from Parker Hale , I think they still make barrels in the UK , as to twist the M85s I think are 1-12 , as I find 175gr SMKs work good .
 
#119
BigKev72 said:
Lol yep they were when I was there. I moved to the US in ‘93 and don’t know what they are doing these days. The L2A2 ball ammo was good stuff though. Very very very consistent. Won a lot of comps with that stuff back in the day. But even then it was rare as rocking horse shit and I imagine it is unobtanium now.

Sorry to the OP, we seem to have digressed from the path a little.
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Not a problem on the digression. History on these rifles is fascinating. Nice to hear from people who shot the real McCoy. I finally got out to the range and started breaking in the barrel. Site in was pretty straight forward, and she seemed to be grouping well on hunting ammo, which I'm using for break in. I haven't run any match through it yet, try to get back out to the range now the 5 feet of snow is melting off.
 
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#120
Nice work on your M82 project, Md.

Wondering if you help me out identifying a couple of barrels that I won at an online estate sale. I think they may be M82 barrels...

www.snipershide.com

Anyone able to identify these British barrels

I won an auction lot that contain a number of barrels, including these two. They look like Parker Hale 1200 or M82 target barrels to me, but I just guessing. Anyone able to help me out?
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com
 
#126
I have a 26" heavy barel. 7.62 Mint bore. Had some surface rust pitting but not too bad. Drilled for front sight base.
Here are some pics of the markings.
 

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#127
Nice job partner, I just finished my C3 clone. Original PH action, original PH barrel ,C3 stock, PH rings and bases, bipod, original scope , PH rear sling swivel this is as close as I can get to the real deal , plus cleaning kit , original sling original front and rear target sites ,best I can do at 100 yards is 3/4 moa ,
 

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#130
Strange they have straight bolt handles and the trigger isnt the usual parker hale trigger either. looks like a military straight bolt and trigger dropped in a PH action maybe
 
#132
billy1946 said:
Nice job partner, I just finished my C3 clone. Original PH action, original PH barrel ,C3 stock, PH rings and bases, bipod, original scope , PH rear sling swivel this is as close as I can get to the real deal , plus cleaning kit , original sling original front and rear target sites ,best I can do at 100 yards is 3/4 moa ,
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Looks nice! I'm getting ready to start my second M82/C3. I acquired all the correct PH parts with the exception of an accessory rail. Will probably have to machine one up.
 
#133
Was anybody watching this auction last week? Went a lot higher than I thought it would.

Is a Z prefix even correct? I thought those were 1200TX, not M82.
 

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#134
And, I finished up my own clone recently as well.
 

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#135
Looks nice! I'm getting ready to start my second M82/C3. I acquired all the correct PH parts with the exception of an accessory rail. Will probably have to machine one up.
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Is this the PH accessory rail you need for that project? It’s made of steel, but I don’t think its correct for the M85 stock that I have. PM me if this is what you need for an M82/C3. (I think it’s the same rail seen in post #127).

IMG_4276.jpeg

IMG_4277.jpeg
 
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#139
RedBull6 said:
Will this work for you?

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That is the rail for the L81 "cadet" training rifle, which actually is the correct one for the stocks Old West Scrounger has. I used one of those on my first build. The M82/C3 used the 1200TX rail. It has 2 screw mounting holes and 11 threaded holes for your palm stop. I don't know why PH made the cadet with an ARCA-like (but not quite, and long before ARCA rails were a thing) rail and the service rifle with a proprietary rail. These guys were in the pre bi-pod era, so I guess they were experimenting with ideas. Anyone else have any input, I would love to hear it. I plan to fill the slot and the round escrution holes in my cadet stock, and blend in the correct rail on this next build. If I do it right, it should be barely noticeable. I hope. Unless someone has a proper stock out there.....
 
#143
This is my contribution to the M85 thread. I traded a Dillon square deal for a box of rifle parts with a receiver with "Parker Hale" stamped in it, a barrel, bottom metal and magazine, stock and a few other odds and ends. Here is the finished product. I had a boatload of help from a couple close friends of mine to get this rifle finished. I sourced the remaining parts I was missing from Norman Clarke in the UK and a friend who happens to be a rifle enthusiast.

Be advised!!! The Weaver is just a place holder until I can get the other mount machined out to fit the 26mm ZF in the second picture (the second mount I have is made up of parts so don't worry about me ruining an original). When I purchased them, I was told both the mounts were 26mm, but neither were.


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#146
I traded a Dillon square deal for a box of rifle parts with a receiver with "Parker Hale" stamped in it, a barrel, bottom metal and magazine, stock and a few other odds and ends. Here is the finished product. I had a boatload of help from a couple close friends of mine to get this rifle finished. I sourced the remaining parts I was missing from Norman Clarke in the UK and a friend who happens to be a rifle enthusiast.
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That looks fantastic. I want to build the same rifle but I need a few miracles to make it happen. All I have is an un-inletted M85 stock, M85 trigger guard, the scope mount and ZF95 10x scope….if you know of any more spare M85 parts, please keep me in mind.
 

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#147
BigKev72 said:
I won’t argue with that. But for our/my purposes I have always been very happy with the old fat girl. I have shot out to 1300 yards very accurately with the old warhorse I have shot possibles in competition with my old civvy target rifle at 1200. I realize that it is useless as udders on a bull for ELR shooting but for international level target shooting it did the job. A lot of how the 7.62 NATO round shoots depends on the skill and training with which one sends it off. If you know your business and know how to read wind, light, mirage and all of the other fun bits then you can accomplish a lot. We used to hit the range with rifles, ammo and spotting scopes and breeze in 1000 yard shoots. Never did I use a kestrel, ballistic calculator or even a mil master. Granted those things are all great tools and had they been available back in those days I’m sure they would have been making our lives much better. The reality was that we didn’t and we still managed to make shots that would embarrass some of the folks who frequent ranges and forums these days. It’s not the round most of the time, it’s the correct application of the round.
Click to expand...
Yes. The ability to do the correct application of a given round as described is much more worthful and respectful. You're completely right. Bullseye ! 🤗😀
 
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