Night Vision Sig ECHO CV25 LWIR 640x512 Thermal Clip-On

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smarcus

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May 16, 2018
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#1
Euro Optics just sent out an email on a new SIG Thermal Clip on. I believe there is a hands on event going on at SIG right now. Anyone have any details besides what's mentioned in the ad? Priced at $4K

Thermal

Description

Features of the ECHO CV25 Multi-Purpose Thermal Clip-On Device​

  • Compact at only 5" with a QD mount
  • Eyepiece optimized for parallax-free clip-on application, and can be used as a thermal sight
  • LWIR 640x512 VGA 12um 50Hz thermal core with ≤20mK sensitivity
  • Record still photos and video with audio
  • Configurable via the BDX App including live video streaming
  • Rechargeable and removeable 18650 lithium-ion battery with 9-hour runtime on a single charge
  • IP67 Waterproof rating, 25mm Objective, 17° FOV, 1024x768 AMOLED microdisplay
  • Ships with EVA Case, Bikini cover, (2) 18650 batteries, and USB-C charging cable
  • SIG SAUER Infinite Guarantee unlimited lifetime warranty
Specifications
  • Size:4.96" x 2.99" x 3.07"
  • Weight:18.8 ounces
  • Thermal Sensitivity:≤20mK
  • Magnification Range:1x - 8x
  • Field of View:17.6°
  • Battery Type(x1) 18650
 
#4
I have a REAP 2 35mm TWS but have been looking to add a clip on. I've been hesitant about the Chinese ones but with the SIG lifetime warranty it's a bit more palatable (I assume it's a Chinese core at least given the price). I'd like to see some reviews.
 
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#10

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#17
I watched a video where it said that parallax was fixed at 150 yards. "As long as the target is in the eyebox, you will hit".

Can someone explain that to me?

I'm really curious about this as it seems like a really, really good deal on paper. We all know that this is a Chinese core but the price point is nice and ideally, that lifetime warranty actually means, lifetime.
 
#22
I would have a hard time believing it is factory digitally-collimated the way it expensive thermals are. I suspect it’s going to be a “pixel shift” zero process like every other inexpensive thermal clip-on.
 
#24
Ape_Factory said:
New to thermals, can you explain collimated vs. the pixel shift zero process and what it accomplishes? Or point me to a good article ;)
Click to expand...
a collimated optic would just drop on infront of your day optic and work with your day optics reticle

the pixel shifting process is just basically moving the thermal screen image to overlay your daytime optics reticle to "zero" it

smarter people should be along to correct me or explain it better
 
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#26
Ape_Factory said:
New to thermals, can you explain collimated vs. the pixel shift zero process and what it accomplishes? Or point me to a good article ;)
Click to expand...

The expensive military thermals will commonly have carefully designed rear lens assemblies that are fairly tolerant of misalignment between the day scope and the clip-on, and then they will spend extra time carefully calibrating the unit to ensure that what is seen through the day optic is exactly what the thermal displays on the rear screen, ie that there is no image shift and that 1mil on the day optic will cover exactly 1mil of what the thermal camera sees. In night vision optics this calibration is done with a Risley prism in the clip-on but with thermals it’s done digitally at the factory. The end result is that you can slap the unit onto just about any rifle with the scope reasonably aligned to the thermal and expect fairly minimal POI shift, and your reticle holds should all work accurately.

Cheaper thermals generally don’t do all these things. You might get a lot more POI shift if your scope isn’t perfectly aligned with the thermal, and the lack of a fixed factory calibration means it’s on the user to “zero” the thermal to each rifle. This is done by having a larger screen in the back and digitally shifting the displayed image around on that screen in the menu settings until point of aim is point of impact.

It would be really impressive if Sig has managed to produce a factory collimated thermal optic for under $4000, because that level of design complexity, attention to detail, and additional labor has generally only been available on $10,000+ systems.
 
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#29
Texascbr said:
Thoughts on Sig Thermal performance vs Iray?
Click to expand...
if the cv25 640/512 processor is same one as Iray installs under their brand name ? My Iray with 640/512 give a pretty impressive image, and does well in high humid.
This pixel size of my iray is 12μm, same as the cv25, and other specs. Sig. gives . For a clip-on it going to be really hard to tell until someone actually throws one in front of their LVPO and takes it out to actually hunt with it. see's what is actual usable for image with his scope magnification.

The #1 biggest thing I give a shit about with any Clip-on is . Collimation and holding the same set POI zero every time It goes Off and back On on rifle.
.
 
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#30
One of the Sig. Rep's. over the weekend said that it 'might' be looking for release Oct.-Nov. said ..."he thinks they were doing some Dunk tests right now" and ironing out other small details . So hopefully before Xmas be putting them out to dealers.
.
 
#31
Let’s not forget that we’ve been promised collimated clip-ons before, only to find out after release that they were just the same zero-the-screen types we’ve been seeing. In at least one case, it was deliberate false advertising and led to massive pre-orders (with $$ down).

I don’t expect we are seeing that exact scenario now, but I definitely won’t be one of the first to buy this.

If it’s all it’s cracked up to be, we’re moving in a great direction!
 
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#34
Here is what an sig PM told me today on the collimation….

“yes, the ocular lens is collimated, it should hold zero from gun to gun. It optical axis will come calibrated from the factory to within 1mrad. There will be a menu in the App similar to MV cal to fine tune the calibration. Once that is done the user should never have to touch it again. “

They said thy are starting to build them this week but don’t know what that means for when they’ll be released.
 
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#38
Patty said:
Here is what an sig PM told me today on the collimation….

“yes, the ocular lens is collimated, it should hold zero from gun to gun. It optical axis will come calibrated from the factory to within 1mrad. There will be a menu in the App similar to MV cal to fine tune the calibration. Once that is done the user should never have to touch it again. “

They said thy are starting to build them this week but don’t know what that means for when they’ll be released.
Click to expand...

I really hope he meant within .1 mill.

It seems like every time I'm ready to buy NV or thermal new stuff comes out, and I get the decision paralysis. Hopefully my local sig dealer gets some in.
 
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#39
Being zeroed on an optical bench to within 1 mrad is completely acceptable, with the fact you can farther zero it and it holds from gun to gun to gun.
If they’re optimizing this for a clip on, they don’t need to have it helmet mountable, can’t have both of best worlds and it’s very interesting to see if everything they say is true.

Seen the best clip ons be off .6 to 1 mil and they need to be adjusted.
 
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#40
Some of you are showing that you’re not aware of history.

Sneaky slimy ways of tricking consumers about the collimation or non-collimation of these units is not new, and this description is DRIPPING with the same shady non-speak that separated some of you from your hard earned dollars just a few years ago.

Good luck.

I REALLY do hope this one will do what you think it will, and it MIGHT. But the comments here make it obvious that if you get lucky with this, it’s just that, luck. You don’t know the history or the lingo that has plagued civilian “clip-ons”.

If it was really as simple as correcting the collimation one time on your rifle, and now it’s set for all rifles… then they would do that at the factory.

Last time around I got laughed at for this exact same warning (by well respected members here). Their laughs cost them thousands and earned me the last laugh.

I HOPE this time is different.
 
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#41
There is ZERO chance that this consumer-grade Sig unit is digitally collimated at the factory the way that, say, a Theon X-ELR is, and y’all are smoking some high-grade crack to believe it could be. “Collimated at the factory to within 1 mil and you can fine-tune it in the settings” is the most suspicious sales-gibberish for “yeah we center the screen at the factory and you pixel-shift the image like every other consumer clip-on.”
 
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#45
The only Hope is being a clip on only thermal they some how actually got some kind of prism in the back….. (doubtful or figured out another way)

Look at the Tigir. Has a a prism (non risley prism) and you have to adjust the image once. So it’s possible
 
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