Burnt brass

justincase · Aug 24, 2024

I've been having excellent loads with 458 socom..
Recieved some new bullets ,some Nosler balistic silver tip 300 grain and some plated 350 grain FMJ from Everglades ammo..usually I shool check brass and good,clean no bad signs..I have shot the new ones silver and fmj and the brass has bad powder burns on the sides bout half way down brass,thought might be pressure so changed loads up /down ,I crimped a couple vs non crimped but with both still burnt.. No other loads have this issue.
Has anyone else been blessed with this problem??

6MT · Aug 24, 2024

Not sealing properly in the chamber(?). Possibly a light charge weight(?).

I have a light plinking load in .45 Colt that does that in a Uberti 1873 clone.

No biggy really. Hopefully they are accurate. So, clean ‘em, and reload them.

justincase · Aug 24, 2024

Yeah ,the accuracy is excellent at 50 they hit same hole so I was hoping it was nothing to serious ,I was thinking charge also but the data I got for loading was inconsistent on max load so didn't want to push to much..
1873 clone ,nice
Sounds good ,appreciate the imput on this issue,

45-90 · Aug 24, 2024

Pressure too light so the powder burns down the case neck and body before expanding to seal off the chamber.
Common in low pressure loads, and low pressure cartridges. Not dangerous just annoying.
Run pressures on the high side of the loading manuals recommend loads...it should improve.
Also some powders are cleaner than others, so changing powder may help, also.
I have Colts 45 SAA it likes Unique and a 255 gr bullet, the cases come out a bit dirty, not as bad as what you have shown, but still dirty. I shoot it that way, cause it's accurate.

justincase · Aug 24, 2024

45-90 said:
Pressure too light so the powder burns down the case neck and body before expanding to seal off the chamber.
Common in low pressure loads, and low pressure cartridges. Not dangerous just annoying.
Run pressures on the high side of the loading manuals recommend loads...it should improve.
Also some powders are cleaner than others, so changing powder may help, also.
I have Colts 45 SAA it likes Unique and a 255 gr bullet, the cases come out a bit dirty, not as bad as what you have shown, but still dirty. I shoot it that way, cause it's accurate.

Ive herd that about the light load just wish had more data on these bullets to load up,Im at 31.0 for the silver tip ....thanks

justincase · Aug 24, 2024

Sounds like the trial will be to load up a few more grains and go from there and if no resolution hell they are accurate...

justincase · Aug 25, 2024

45-90 said:
Pressure too light so the powder burns down the case neck and body before expanding to seal off the chamber.
Common in low pressure loads, and low pressure cartridges. Not dangerous just annoying.
Run pressures on the high side of the loading manuals recommend loads...it should improve.
Also some powders are cleaner than others, so changing powder may help, also.
I have Colts 45 SAA it likes Unique and a 255 gr bullet, the cases come out a bit dirty, not as bad as what you have shown, but still dirty. I shoot it that way, cause it's accurate.

Im going to try that also ,grab a lb. of another powder an see data and give er a try..thanks

justincase · Aug 25, 2024

45-90 said:
Pressure too light so the powder burns down the case neck and body before expanding to seal off the chamber.
Common in low pressure loads, and low pressure cartridges. Not dangerous just annoying.
Run pressures on the high side of the loading manuals recommend loads...it should improve.
Also some powders are cleaner than others, so changing powder may help, also.
I have Colts 45 SAA it likes Unique and a 255 gr bullet, the cases come out a bit dirty, not as bad as what you have shown, but still dirty. I shoot it that way, cause it's accurate.

And may I add the colt 45 sounds sweeet,thanks again for the info from all

tomme boy · Aug 25, 2024

Don't run them too lite. The gas can collapse the case by getting around it then pushing in the sides.

justincase · Aug 25, 2024

tomme boy said:
Don't run them too lite. The gas can collapse the case by getting around it then pushing in the sides.

Good advice, appreciate that..Im going to go up 2 grains at a time and see if fixes itself ( that would be nice ) Only issues I do have is no load data with silver tip 300 grain or FMJ plated 350 grain..I just kind of went with loads fro other rounds ..

JerkyFreak · Aug 25, 2024

Do you load them to the cannelure? Dirty cases like that can also be caused by the bullets not seated deep enough; i.e. not enough grip on the bulket by the case neck.

If not down to the cannelure already, try seating the bullets deeper.

justincase · Aug 25, 2024

JerkyFreak said:
Do you load them to the cannelure? Dirty cases like that can also be caused by the bullets not seated deep enough; i.e. not enough grip on the bulket by the case neck.

If not down to the cannelure already, try seating the bullets deeper.

I actuall tried to seat them past the cant..to put them in middle of cant with all same results

justincase · Aug 25, 2024

0⁰⁰

JerkyFreak said:
Do you load them to the cannelure? Dirty cases like that can also be caused by the bullets not seated deep enough; i.e. not enough grip on the bulket by the case neck.

If not down to the cannelure already, try seating the bullets deeper.

Im going to try to seat just past the cannelure,that will give me seating a bit deaper,I found on Nosler sight the bullets are actually made for 45/70 gov. but sais can be used for the 458 socom also...Could that do you think be an issue ?

45-90 · Aug 25, 2024

I have that bullet .458 300 gr Nosler BT next to a Hornady 250 gr all copper. I use them in the 45-90.
But resize the .458 bullets to .452 and shoot them in the 450 Bushmaster, with a fast 16 twist instead of 22 twist...and shoot 500 gr .458" resized to .452" in the Bushmaster.
You did not say what powder.
2 grains is too much jump! Add a half grain at most...this is a low pressure cartridge!
And all copper bullets have a much higher start pressure when engaging the rifling.
Plus most recommend. 050 jump to the rifling.

458 SOCOM
300 gr Nosler Silvertip
Cartridge overall length 2.050" should put you into the cannelure. A moderate crimp there helps, a bit with powder burn.
Do not seat deeper, a .050" increase in depth really increases pressure! From below to over pressure.

A max load of 37.0 grs of AA 1680.
A max load of 32.0grs of LilGun
A max load of 33.5 grs of Win 296 or H110.
Lil Gun then 296/ H110 will be cleaner burning, as far as % of burned powder being consumed.
I use Lil Gun in my 450 Bushmaster.

JerkyFreak · Aug 25, 2024

justincase said:
0⁰⁰

Im going to try to seat just past the cannelure,that will give me seating a bit deaper,I found on Nosler sight the bullets are actually made for 45/70 gov. but sais can be used for the 458 socom also...Could that do you think be an issue ?

If you are already loading to the cannelure, you are loading deep enough.

The "burnt" case is caused by low pressure not expanding the case to properly seal the chamber by the time the bullet leaves the case mouth. You are not unsafe, it's just a PITA to clean.

To avoid this you have to increase the pressure. Either more powder, faster powder or heavier bullet. As mentioned by others, a light crimp into the cannelure will also increase the shot-start pressure.

justincase · Aug 26, 2024

45-90 said:
I have that bullet .458 300 gr Nosler BT next to a Hornady 250 gr all copper. I use them in the 45-90.
But resize the .458 bullets to .452 and shoot them in the 450 Bushmaster, with a fast 16 twist instead of 22 twist...and shoot 500 gr .458" resized to .452" in the Bushmaster.
You did not say what powder.
2 grains is too much jump! Add a half grain at most...this is a low pressure cartridge!
And all copper bullets have a much higher start pressure when engaging the rifling.
Plus most recommend. 050 jump to the rifling.

458 SOCOM
300 gr Nosler Silvertip
Cartridge overall length 2.050" should put you into the cannelure. A moderate crimp there helps, a bit with powder burn.
Do not seat deeper, a .050" increase in depth really increases pressure! From below to over pressure.

A max load of 37.0 grs of AA 1680.
A max load of 32.0grs of LilGun
A max load of 33.5 grs of Win 296 or H110.
Lil Gun then 296/ H110 will be cleaner burning, as far as % of burned powder being consumed.
I use Lil Gun in my 450 Bushmaster.

Sorry forgot to mention powder ,Im using ,H110 and I was at 31.0 grains as of right now. A little nervous of how much to go up without load data on this bullet...I'll try the crimp first before going up any grain ..
Awesome info ,thank you very much.
Heading to take all this advice and put it to use.
Again I appreciate all the help with this from you and everyone here

justincase · Aug 26, 2024

45-90 said:
I have that bullet .458 300 gr Nosler BT next to a Hornady 250 gr all copper. I use them in the 45-90.
But resize the .458 bullets to .452 and shoot them in the 450 Bushmaster, with a fast 16 twist instead of 22 twist...and shoot 500 gr .458" resized to .452" in the Bushmaster.
You did not say what powder.
2 grains is too much jump! Add a half grain at most...this is a low pressure cartridge!
And all copper bullets have a much higher start pressure when engaging the rifling.
Plus most recommend. 050 jump to the rifling.

458 SOCOM
300 gr Nosler Silvertip
Cartridge overall length 2.050" should put you into the cannelure. A moderate crimp there helps, a bit with powder burn.
Do not seat deeper, a .050" increase in depth really increases pressure! From below to over pressure.

A max load of 37.0 grs of AA 1680.
A max load of 32.0grs of LilGun
A max load of 33.5 grs of Win 296 or H110.
Lil Gun then 296/ H110 will be cleaner burning, as far as % of burned powder being consumed.
I use Lil Gun in my 450 Bushmaster.

A max load for H110 is 33.5 ? If so Im way low at 31and really was low running them at 29.8

45-90 said:
Pressure too light so the powder burns down the case neck and body before expanding to seal off the chamber.
Common in low pressure loads, and low pressure cartridges. Not dangerous just annoying.
Run pressures on the high side of the loading manuals recommend loads...it should improve.
Also some powders are cleaner than others, so changing powder may help, also.
I have Colts 45 SAA it likes Unique and a 255 gr bullet, the cases come out a bit dirty, not as bad as what you have shown, but still dirty. I shoot it that way, cause it's accurate.

So hoping max is at,33.5 it would be safe being I’m at 31.2 now to bump it up a grain of H110..
As of now nothing showing any pressure signs. Wish as alot of people Im sure they had more H110 info lol

45-90 · Aug 26, 2024

Work up slowly check for pressure signs.
Found a little 458 SOCOM data with the Nosler RN BT
2.040" cart overall length
CFEBLK start 38.0 max 41.0
H4198 start 35.6 max 38.2
IMR4198 start 34.8 max 37.5
IMR 4227 start 28.2 max 33.3

H110 was not listed.

Might try a sub load of TiteGroup,
12.0 to start, to 14.0 max
Do not go below 11.5 bullet may stick in barrel.
It only fills the case 36% but has been design factor that allows clean burn, and good ignition regardless of powder position in the case.
But it may not cycle the action completely.

justincase · Aug 26, 2024

justincase said:
Good advice, appreciate that..Im going to go up 2 grains at a time and see if fixes itself ( that would be nice ) Only issues I do have is no load data with silver tip 300 grain or FMJ plated 350 grain..I just kind of went with loads fro other rounds ..

Yeah Im getting from others 33.5 might be max wich would put me actually a bit on the low end of H110 for this bullet

45-90 said:
Work up slowly check for pressure signs.
Found a little 458 SOCOM data with the Nosler RN BT
2.040" cart overall length
CFEBLK start 38.0 max 41.0
H4198 start 35.6 max 38.2
IMR4198 start 34.8 max 37.5
IMR 4227 start 28.2 max 33.3

H110 was not listed.

Might try a sub load of TiteGroup,
12.0 to start, to 14.0 max
Do not go below 11.5 bullet may stick in barrel.
It only fills the case 36% but has been design factor that allows clean burn, and good ignition regardless of powder position in the case.
But it may not cycle the action completely.

Thanks for taking the time ,very much appreciated, I'll lok into those powders

45-90 · Aug 27, 2024

Here is Nosler Data for 300 gr silver tip BT
Notice the difference between the 2, 300 grs bullets they offer... different cartridge overall lengths...the 2.035" COAL is for your bullet.
They do not have H110 listed either.

southernpew · Aug 27, 2024

I shoot 458 SOCOM a good bit. It could be a light load, but 31gr of H110 doesnt seem too light from my experience. I like Lil Gun, 1680, and H110 in mine. My favorite is Reloder 7, but its like fairy dust today, so I use it sparingly

What barrel are you running? For a long time the 458 SOCOM chamber varied from every manufacturer

justincase · Aug 27, 2024

45-90 said:
Here is Nosler Data for 300 gr silver tip BT
Notice the difference between the 2, 300 grs bullets they offer... different cartridge overall lengths...the 2.035" COAL is for your bullet.
They do not have H110 listed either.

Yeah I really like the powder and I think I will keep it for my TSX loads and TTSX but going to go with some of the other powders put up on here

justincase · Aug 27, 2024

southernpew said:
I shoot 458 SOCOM a good bit. It could be a light load, but 31gr of H110 doesnt seem too light from my experience. I like Lil Gun, 1680, and H110 in mine. My favorite is Reloder 7, but its like fairy dust today, so I use it sparingly

What barrel are you running? For a long time the 458 SOCOM chamber varied from every manufacturer

Running a Tromix 1/14 barrel..I here alot of people that regularly actually shoot 458 go with the RL7 and love it

southernpew · Aug 27, 2024

justincase said:
Running a Tromix 1/14 barrel..I here alot of people that regularly actually shoot 458 go with the RL7 and love it

Well, the chamber is not the issue.
RL7 is the best

justincase · Aug 27, 2024

justincase said:
Running a Tromix 1/14 barrel..I here alot of people that regularly actually shoot 458 go with the RL7 and love it

Im going to keep the 31 grain H110,load and mess with it a lil,appreciate all the imput and help with this load ,it does the same with plated FMJ 350 grain bullets too so I dono whats the issue but only those 2 give me issues

justincase · Aug 27, 2024

southernpew said:
Well, the chamber is not the issue.
RL7 is the best

I do see alot more data on RL7 Im going to pick up two little jugs of it and give er A go..

justincase · Aug 27, 2024

45-90 said:
Here is Nosler Data for 300 gr silver tip BT
Notice the difference between the 2, 300 grs bullets they offer... different cartridge overall lengths...the 2.035" COAL is for your bullet.
They do not have H110 listed either.

I think Im going to go with some of the other recommendations on powder for these bullets like the powders shown on this that you sent..
Thanks again..This is what makes reloading the fun hobby it is

Ledzep · Aug 27, 2024

Already been covered, but I can confirm you could stand to have a spicier primer if possible (Federal magnum is a solid option), more powder, or a faster burning powder.

What happens a lot with these big bore straight wall or nearly straight wall cartridges is that the primer and initial burn of the powder blows the bullet out of the case and into the bore, but because the bore area is so large the volume increase of the bullet going down the bore causes a pressure drop big enough to delay peak pressure enough that the case doesn't obturate. In extreme examples this allows for gas to get around the case and actually dent it inwards. It can also allow the bullet to chug and stop or nearly stop then rapidly spike pressure in a big (dangerous) way.

45-90 · Aug 27, 2024

Bolt guns and levers, without suppressors, tend to shoot much cleaner.
Subs and supers in 510 whisper, about 200 cases fairy clean.
Same with 45-90 subs and supers fairly clean...could be reloaded without cleaning.

And a couple of cases just fired in a semi auto 18" AR 10 338 Ruger Compact Magnum, test loads...most were at max pressure of 62,000 psi. To 65,000 psi.
No suppressor....come out pretty clean, and normal appearance.

45-90 · Aug 28, 2024

Since I have a bunch of these Nosler 300 gr Silvertip in .458" I decided to resize them to .452" and load them in the 450 Bushmaster. There is only 1 gr difference in case capacity, but seating depth makes a difference.
I seated just short of the canellure in order to crimp them with Lee FC Die, in the Bushmaster, because it headspaces off the case mouth.
They will be tested with 10 different powders 12.8 to 46 grs...fast to slow...

justincase · Aug 28, 2024

That should be an interesting trial of powders..have to poste the results on that one..
Good luck !

justincase · Aug 28, 2024

To bad we all dont live in same area,
A 458 socom shooting day at the range would be pretty bad ass

45-90 · Aug 28, 2024

justincase said:
That should be an interesting trial of powders..have to poste the results on that one..
Good luck !

So here us the Data from the 450 Bushmaster, shooting the .458" Nosler Silver Tip resized from .458" to .452" and fired in the 450 Bushmaster instead of the 458 SOCOM.
All loads functioned and locked back the bolt.
Here is the appearance of those fired cases, a little dirty, but mostly the usual AR appearance.

This load data can be used in the 458 SOCOM if ya work up.
For the 458 SOCOM cartridge overall length is 2.040" at the cannalure, and the same data applies.

Compare 450 Bushmaster 300 gr Nosler Silvertip 2.190" COAL.
Usuable capacity 43.507 grs H2O.

458 SOCOM 300 gr Nosler Silvertip
2.040"
Useable cspacity 43.790 grs H20.

The 450 Bushmaster and the 458 SOCOM are almost identical in capacity, but configured different.

So this 450 Bushmaster load data, can be used as a guide for the 458 SOCOM user with any of these powders, if the above loading COAL is adhered to.

All loads are at maximum according to QL.
Lil Gun load was a max at 1970 fps and had a bit of primer flating, compared to the others...but not a big deal.
My go to powder for most loads is Lil Gun and have purchased several kegs for the Bushmaster.

45-90 · Aug 28, 2024

These big bore AR 15s are a a blast.
I use the 16 Twist 450 Bushmaster to take advantage of the cheap pistol bullets .451" and 210 HST 2nds are 10 cents ea. shipped...plus one can run them as high as 2580 fps, for plinking fun.
Or resize 500 gr .458 bullets to .452" for subs or very moderate supers.
They recoil more in the light bushmaster, so I added a recoil pad.
The trick with the pistol bullets is run them in a 45 Colt die to bring the case dia down for a good snug fit on the pistol bullets, for good ignition.
I use SR 7 1/2 Rem in most cases.
One can get over 3100 ft/lbs of muzzle energy out of a 16" Bushmaster, in a light AR 15 platform, for some short range power, or heavy duty plinking, for an afternoon of fun..

justincase · Aug 29, 2024

That is some incredable work ups sir...
A tip of the hat and a salute for getting it all on paper to see.
The big bore AR's are a blast !
Maybe a bit of a pain in the ass with them on some issues but in the end a blast to enjoy !
I custom-made my own handgrips for mine because I have bigger hands and also a recoil pad .. When you can customize with your own ,or your own loads makes shooting em' 10× the blast...

southernpew · Aug 29, 2024

Are you using Large Rifle or Pistol primers? Most load data uses Large Pistol Magnum primers, this is what I use

justincase · Aug 29, 2024

Large pistol

justincase · Aug 29, 2024

southernpew said:
Are you using Large Rifle or Pistol primers? Most load data uses Large Pistol Magnum primers, this is what I use

I Use the ,Winchester Large Pistol

45-90 · Aug 29, 2024

I have mostly, about 1000, Small Rifle, for the bushmaster, but about 200 cases have large primer pockets.
If ya have a choice and going for super accuracy, and lowest S/Ds, one should try out the different primers for different powders.
I've done so in 308 with case fulls of ball powders such as Alliant 2000 MR were more accurate, better S/Ds, and higher velocities by an average of 40 fps with the large rifle primers vs the small match primers.

justincase · Aug 29, 2024

I must say though ,I appreciate the time ya'll have put into helping and sharring ideas with me.
The 458 Socom,beast is an awesome bit of firepower and even better to learn and perfect personal loads for a day out..so to all that have put some personal data or info help on here the last few days,Thank you
Ok,ok now wiping the tears ...Back to man stuff lol
I went out to try some loads,Shot the 350 TSX Barnes loads did 85 yards Yes odd # but you never have a perfectly marked shot ,So good to sometimes just throw it out at different yards..
Here are some at 50 and 85 yards.
All I can say is was impressed...

justincase · Sep 12, 2024

Thanks for all the advice ..
I did load em at the max level at just about anyhow and tried a slight kiss of a crimp
( ruined a few rounds trying Crimping ) on the Silvertip and no more burnt cases ..
Appreciate it everyone..

God bless all us

AMERICANS

justincase · Sep 15, 2024

justincase said:
Sounds like the trial will be to load up a few more grains and go from there and if no resolution hell they are accurate...

Really accurate ,I'm at 31.o grains now, so hopping, hopping this is the trick with the plate FMJ's because I don't know any max load for it but nothing showing any pressure signs..
The silver tips work really well though and can't beat the accuracy I'm getting on them

justincase · Sep 27, 2024

justincase said:
I think Im going to go with some of the other recommendations on powder for these bullets like the powders shown on this that you sent..
Thanks again..This is what makes reloading the fun hobby it is

Hey figured you might be the one to ask , Going with the different powders to try ...ordering LiL Gun and RL7
Would those be good in the 458 Socom ?

45-90 · Sep 27, 2024

justincase said:
Hey figured you might be the one to ask , Going with the different powders to try ...ordering LiL Gun and RL7
Would those be good in the 458 Socom ?

I used LilGun with sucess with the 450 B and the 300 gr resized Nosler ST.
Nosler has load data for RL7 as above for their 300 gr ST, so either powder should be good...if they meet your accuracy needs.

southernpew · Sep 30, 2024

justincase said:
Hey figured you might be the one to ask , Going with the different powders to try ...ordering LiL Gun and RL7
Would those be good in the 458 Socom ?

Lil Gun
H110
RL7
1680

I have used all of these in 458 SOCOM. I prefer H110 and RL7

justincase · Sep 30, 2024

Sweet, Thank you... I'll grab some RL7 in the mornig ..

justincase · Sep 30, 2024

Any of Ya'll load the 325 FTX with H110 ? I was going to go with 29.0 to start but I have seen people posted up to 32 grains + they say. so I didn't want to be too low ?

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Burnt brass

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