Father of Georgia Shooting Suspect Arrested, Charged with Involuntary Manslaughter, 2nd Degree Murder

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PatMiles

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Feb 25, 2017
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#1

The father of the 14-year-old Apalachee High School attack suspect was arrested Thursday and charged with manslaughter and other charges.
CBS News reported that law enforcement sources indicated 54-year-old Colin Gray allegedly gave an AR-15 rifle to his son “as a gift … in December 2023.”
The specific charges against the father include “four counts of involuntary manslaughter, two counts of second degree murder and eight counts of
cruelty to children.”
The Georgia Bureau of Investigation (GBI) noted that the charges “stem from Mr. Gray knowingly allowing his son … to possess a weapon.”
GBI called for communities across the state to encourage students “across this state to contact a member of their school faculty with any and all concerns of suspicious behavior that they may see.”
The 14-year-old arrested for the Apalachee High School shooting has been charged with four counts of felony murder.
Barrow County Sheriff Jud Smith spoke at the press conference Thursday night and announced that the nine individuals who were injured in the attack will be making “a full recovery.”
Breitbart News reported that the 14-year-old attacker was stopped by a good guy with a gun. The good guy was a deputy serving as a School Resource Officer.
 
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#2
So gave his son a rifle after the kid posted threats the year before and had an FBI visit.

Maybe dad was thinking “if I give him his own rifle, maybe he’ll become a man and stop dressing up in pumps and corsets…. Like he currently is.”

Honestly, giving a kid a rifle is good thing at virtually any age when the kids are responsible enough to start shooting supervised. And later shows enough responsibility to shoot unsupervised. And eventually becomes a responsible owner nd shooter.

Giving a troubled 13 YO who has made threats an AR and allowing unfettered access to it is sort of, well, perhaps criminal negligence? Ok, maybe just stupid. But stupid that leads to dead people has penalties.

Not sure I fault the charges here. Be interesting if they stick!

Maybe the parents of the other retards who are sitting in their locked bedrooms in a puddle of their own feces wearing their grandmothers wedding dress and masturbating to Guns and Ammo will take notice and straighten out their kid. Or at least disarm them..

Instead of telling everyone how unique and special their Ritalin-addled tranny kid is while actually raising unguided weapons.

Sirhr
 
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#4
The state mandates how you can raise your children. Punishment has been replaced with pills.

I raised a troubled step-son. HIs sisters, were fantastic young ladies. All raised the same under the same roof, same rules. Not matter what I/we did or the things we tried he was just a mess! I never gave him access to weapons or a car to drive. I knew those things in his hands were wrong. However, I had plenty of weapons in the house, locked and secured, but kids are smart. If he wanted to get to those weapons he could have. I struggle with this, because I always worried I was going to be the one to pay for his issues, financially or through a criminal charge. Luckily, we were able to keep him from doing anything stupid. When he turned 16, he punched me in the face because he decided he was leaving, and leaving included taking his xmas presents and the cell phone I paid for. During that period of my life, it was the best thing to ever happen. He became his biological dad's problem. I wore that black eye as a badge. I took plenty of pictures of it. After about 3 weeks with his broke ass dad he was begging to come home. I would just send him pictures of the black eye. My ex-wife knew better than to ask me to let him back in.

Some of these messed up kids are WORK! I feel for this dad. Yes, it was dumb, but when you have one of these kids, you search for anything to improve them. You try to find ways to help them understand responsibility. The threats out of their mouth are hard to determine if fake or true. It's sooooo hard to punish a child that doesn't give a shit about anything. Trying to teach responsibility is impossible, as they just find ways to make the punishment your punishment. Try to teach them to mow, they purposefully hit a rock with the mower. Send them to counseling, they lie about you striking them. Try to teach them to drive, they do everything opposite of what you're trying to teach. I feel for this dad, only because I feel like it could have been me, and I've never had so much as a speeding ticket.

If you never raised a child like this, there is no way you would understand the struggle!
 
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#5
So Aunt says the adults in his life failed him. Appears very obvious from reporting. We'll auntie your an adult you see what's going on with said child why the fuck didn't you step up?. This reminds me of people who witness beatings and shit and stand around and video it instead of HELP. I'm glad dad was charged. Maybe, just maybe these people who have kids but don't "raise " them will start getting a clue. 4 people dead because this kid was "crying "out for help.
 
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#6
Bullfrog08 said:
The state mandates how you can raise your children. Punishment has been replaced with pills.

I raised a troubled step-son. HIs sisters, were fantastic young ladies. All raised the same under the same roof, same rules. Not matter what I/we did or the things we tried he was just a mess! I never gave him access to weapons or a car to drive. I knew those things in his hands were wrong. However, I had plenty of weapons in the house, locked and secured, but kids are smart. If he wanted to get to those weapons he could have. I struggle with this, because I always worried I was going to be the one to pay for his issues, financially or through a criminal charge. Luckily, we were able to keep him from doing anything stupid. When he turned 16, he punched me in the face because he decided he was leaving, and leaving included taking his xmas presents and the cell phone I paid for. During that period of my life, it was the best thing to ever happen. He became his biological dad's problem. I wore that black eye as a badge. I took plenty of pictures of it. After about 3 weeks with his broke ass dad he was begging to come home. I would just send him pictures of the black eye. My ex-wife knew better than to ask me to let him back in.

Some of these messed up kids are WORK! I feel for this dad. Yes, it was dumb, but when you have one of these kids, you search for anything to improve them. You try to find ways to help them understand responsibility. The threats out of their mouth are hard to determine if fake or true. It's sooooo hard to punish a child that doesn't give a shit about anything. Trying to teach responsibility is impossible, as they just find ways to make the punishment your punishment. Try to teach them to mow, they purposefully hit a rock with the mower. Send them to counseling, they lie about you striking them. Try to teach them to drive, they do everything opposite of what you're trying to teach. I feel for this dad, only because I feel like it could have been me, and I've never had so much as a speeding ticket.

If you never raised a child like this, there is no way you would understand the struggle!
Click to expand...
Fair words!

That said... when it came to weapons... (cars and guns) you put a lot of thought and care into things.

No idea if the charged dad put his son's AR in a locked safe. Or handed it to him. No clue. As a kid his age, I had a rifle rack on my bedroom wall with my guns in it. But was also not a 'troubled' kid. Nor was I in a 'troubled' area... being very small town and rural. Not that we didn't have some retards... but even 'school fights' where both of the pugilists had buck knives on their belts or in their pockets exchanged punches. But noone would ever have though about using a knife.

Well, times change. Probably MTV's fault.

There ya go.

Sirhr
 
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#7
What happened to starting your kids off with a .22 rimfire rifle. It seems every time we have one of these shootings the kids have an AR or handgun, that they "own" or have access too. You can learn everything you will ever need to learn about gun handling, shooting and safety with a .22 rimfire.

Granted some kids can handle a higher level of responsibility than others, something the adults should be able to judge and adjust to accordingly. They also should be able to adjust to the fact that cops are knocking on their door.
 
#8
Bullfrog08 said:
The state mandates how you can raise your children. Punishment has been replaced with pills.

I raised a troubled step-son. HIs sisters, were fantastic young ladies. All raised the same under the same roof, same rules. Not matter what I/we did or the things we tried he was just a mess! I never gave him access to weapons or a car to drive. I knew those things in his hands were wrong. However, I had plenty of weapons in the house, locked and secured, but kids are smart. If he wanted to get to those weapons he could have. I struggle with this, because I always worried I was going to be the one to pay for his issues, financially or through a criminal charge. Luckily, we were able to keep him from doing anything stupid. When he turned 16, he punched me in the face because he decided he was leaving, and leaving included taking his xmas presents and the cell phone I paid for. During that period of my life, it was the best thing to ever happen. He became his biological dad's problem. I wore that black eye as a badge. I took plenty of pictures of it. After about 3 weeks with his broke ass dad he was begging to come home. I would just send him pictures of the black eye. My ex-wife knew better than to ask me to let him back in.

Some of these messed up kids are WORK! I feel for this dad. Yes, it was dumb, but when you have one of these kids, you search for anything to improve them. You try to find ways to help them understand responsibility. The threats out of their mouth are hard to determine if fake or true. It's sooooo hard to punish a child that doesn't give a shit about anything. Trying to teach responsibility is impossible, as they just find ways to make the punishment your punishment. Try to teach them to mow, they purposefully hit a rock with the mower. Send them to counseling, they lie about you striking them. Try to teach them to drive, they do everything opposite of what you're trying to teach. I feel for this dad, only because I feel like it could have been me, and I've never had so much as a speeding ticket.

If you never raised a child like this, there is no way you would understand the struggle!
Click to expand...

You're not like this father. You saw the danger and did all in your power to prevent it. Kudos.

Imagine if one of your good kids had been one of this kids victims. I think he needs to be charged. He can defend his actions in court. If the DA can't prove a crime then he walks.

My dad always told me freedom comes with responsibility.
 
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#10
Bullfrog08 said:
The state mandates how you can raise your children. Punishment has been replaced with pills.

I raised a troubled step-son. HIs sisters, were fantastic young ladies. All raised the same under the same roof, same rules. Not matter what I/we did or the things we tried he was just a mess! I never gave him access to weapons or a car to drive. I knew those things in his hands were wrong. However, I had plenty of weapons in the house, locked and secured, but kids are smart. If he wanted to get to those weapons he could have. I struggle with this, because I always worried I was going to be the one to pay for his issues, financially or through a criminal charge. Luckily, we were able to keep him from doing anything stupid. When he turned 16, he punched me in the face because he decided he was leaving, and leaving included taking his xmas presents and the cell phone I paid for. During that period of my life, it was the best thing to ever happen. He became his biological dad's problem. I wore that black eye as a badge. I took plenty of pictures of it. After about 3 weeks with his broke ass dad he was begging to come home. I would just send him pictures of the black eye. My ex-wife knew better than to ask me to let him back in.

Some of these messed up kids are WORK! I feel for this dad. Yes, it was dumb, but when you have one of these kids, you search for anything to improve them. You try to find ways to help them understand responsibility. The threats out of their mouth are hard to determine if fake or true. It's sooooo hard to punish a child that doesn't give a shit about anything. Trying to teach responsibility is impossible, as they just find ways to make the punishment your punishment. Try to teach them to mow, they purposefully hit a rock with the mower. Send them to counseling, they lie about you striking them. Try to teach them to drive, they do everything opposite of what you're trying to teach. I feel for this dad, only because I feel like it could have been me, and I've never had so much as a speeding ticket.

If you never raised a child like this, there is no way you would understand the struggle!
Click to expand...
Back in the day we had a boyfriend/stepdad/whatever come into the ED with what we were told was a GSW from the stepson. Turned out the kid was a problem, had taken a pellet gun (pistol) and did a drive by shooting on the dad on a bike. The kid was around 14. The man lost an eye. The doc was clearly having a hard time telling this guy what the rest of his life was going to be. The wailing from that urchin’s mom could be heard everywhere. The dude was beyond enraged, and I suspect strongly that the relationship didn’t last much beyond that. Because of a rebellious shitbird kid.

Your words are true. You don’t let a child play with an unstable dog, so why give an irresponsible kid a gun? The probability of an issue are just too high. These meds are only contributing to the problem, but it seems there is money to be had there so I don’t see that changing any time soon. And there is a political motive for blaming the gun, so this will probably continue.
 
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#11
IF he gave his 14 year old son an AR-15 who he knew was troubled with “unfettered” access, I hope these charges stick.

I have a nephew whom we have dealt with on this issue.He has never made threats. He hunts with his father and shoots recreationally with me. We have taken this issue very seriously. Decisions regarding this matter are made collaboratively with his parents.

I am a civil libertarian and anyone who knows me, knows I’m about as strong on 2A as it gets. But there has to be a limit with this kind of gross negligence. There just has to be.

If there’s no room in polite society for gangs roam in our streets, there’s no room in polite society for this kind of irresponsible behavior with a troubled youth having “unfettered access” to an AR-15.

We all talk about the Importance of the nuclear family. Well it’s about time we start putting the code and morals back into looking after our nuclear family and making sure that they don’t get into situations that they shouldn’t be in.

Anyone who has dealt with troubled teens knows that “motive” can come as easily as the wind. Limiting the “opportunity” is where the people closest to him come in. That should be his parents.
 
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#13
sirhrmechanic said:
So gave his son a rifle after the kid posted threats the year before and had an FBI visit.

Maybe dad was thinking “if I give him his own rifle, maybe he’ll become a man and stop dressing up in pumps and corsets…. Like he currently is.”

Honestly, giving a kid a rifle is good thing at virtually any age when the kids are responsible enough to start shooting supervised. And later shows enough responsibility to shoot unsupervised. And eventually becomes a responsible owner nd shooter.

Giving a troubled 13 YO who has made threats an AR and allowing unfettered access to it is sort of, well, perhaps criminal negligence? Ok, maybe just stupid. But stupid that leads to dead people has penalties.

Not sure I fault the charges here. Be interesting if they stick!

Maybe the parents of the other retards who are sitting in their locked bedrooms in a puddle of their own feces wearing their grandmothers wedding dress and masturbating to Guns and Ammo will take notice and straighten out their kid. Or at least disarm them..

Instead of telling everyone how unique and special their Ritalin-addled tranny kid is while actually raising unguided weapons.

Sirhr
Click to expand...
England style gun storage laws and inspections by police...this is where this is heading.
 
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#14
cnwrobb said:
Arrest the FBI agent who had this shooter in his radar. He is as complicit as the kid’s father
Click to expand...
I can only imagine the outrage if last year the FBI broke down the family door, shot the dog , handcuffed everybody, confiscated every firearm in the house but no one was charged . There is no handheld devise that tests people to see if they are a gun nut job sadly . The fbi will review their procedures i am sure but do we want to be like what is going on over in england people are in jail over praying and talking trash to a POLICE DOG . The kid was a nutjob and the father was not too far behind , that kid is gonna get used in jail big time
 
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#15
Must be something more to it they are not saying... doesnt look like its illegal for the kid to have it. With said laws if kid acts on his own beyond whats legally written, how is the parent supposed to know?

Georgia:
No person may intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly sell or furnish a handgun to a minor (person under the age of 18 years).4 However, a parent or legal guardian may permit possession of a handgun by a minor for the purposes specified above.5


There is no minimum age requirement to possess rifles and shotguns in Georgia. Federal age restrictions impose stricter limits.


Georgia prohibits the possession or control of a handgun by any person under age 18.1


This prohibition does not apply if the underage person is:


-Attending a hunter education course or a firearms safety course;


-Engaging in practice in the use of a firearm or target shooting at an established range authorized by the governing body of the jurisdiction where such range is located;


-Engaging in an organized competition involving the use of a firearm or participating in or practicing for a performance by an organized non-profit group that uses firearms as a part of such performance;


-Hunting or fishing pursuant to a valid license if such person has in his or her possession a valid hunting or fishing license if required; is engaged in legal hunting or fishing; has permission of the owner of the land on which the activities are being conducted; and the handgun, whenever loaded, is carried only in an open and fully exposed manner; or


-Traveling to or from any of the aforementioned activities, if the handgun is not loaded.2


In addition, this prohibition does not apply if the person under age 18 is:


-On real property under the control of his or her parent, legal guardian, or grandparent and who has the permission of the parent or legal guardian to possess a handgun; or


-At his or her residence and possesses a handgun while exercising rights authorized by Georgia provisions regarding the justified use of force against another with the permission of his or her parent or legal guardian.3





Federal:
Minimum Age for Gun Possession: Subject to limited exceptions*, federal law prohibits the possession of a handgun or handgun ammunition by any person under the age of 18.17,18 Federal law provides no minimum age for the possession of long guns or long gun ammunition.
 
#17
Green461 said:
Must be something more to it they are not saying... doesnt look like its illegal for the kid to have it. With said laws if kid acts on his own beyond whats legally written, how is the parent supposed to know?

Georgia:
No person may intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly sell or furnish a handgun to a minor (person under the age of 18 years).4 However, a parent or legal guardian may permit possession of a handgun by a minor for the purposes specified above.5


There is no minimum age requirement to possess rifles and shotguns in Georgia. Federal age restrictions impose stricter limits.


Georgia prohibits the possession or control of a handgun by any person under age 18.1


This prohibition does not apply if the underage person is:


-Attending a hunter education course or a firearms safety course;


-Engaging in practice in the use of a firearm or target shooting at an established range authorized by the governing body of the jurisdiction where such range is located;


-Engaging in an organized competition involving the use of a firearm or participating in or practicing for a performance by an organized non-profit group that uses firearms as a part of such performance;


-Hunting or fishing pursuant to a valid license if such person has in his or her possession a valid hunting or fishing license if required; is engaged in legal hunting or fishing; has permission of the owner of the land on which the activities are being conducted; and the handgun, whenever loaded, is carried only in an open and fully exposed manner; or


-Traveling to or from any of the aforementioned activities, if the handgun is not loaded.2


In addition, this prohibition does not apply if the person under age 18 is:


-On real property under the control of his or her parent, legal guardian, or grandparent and who has the permission of the parent or legal guardian to possess a handgun; or


-At his or her residence and possesses a handgun while exercising rights authorized by Georgia provisions regarding the justified use of force against another with the permission of his or her parent or legal guardian.3





Federal:
Minimum Age for Gun Possession: Subject to limited exceptions*, federal law prohibits the possession of a handgun or handgun ammunition by any person under the age of 18.17,18 Federal law provides no minimum age for the possession of long guns or long gun ammunition.
Click to expand...
I think it comes down to....just because you can doesn't mean you should ....father should have known best . If he beats the state rap its the civil suit that is going to ruin him
 
#20
Green461 said:
Must be something more to it they are not saying... doesnt look like its illegal for the kid to have it. With said laws if kid acts on his own beyond whats legally written, how is the parent supposed to know?

Georgia:
No person may intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly sell or furnish a handgun to a minor (person under the age of 18 years).4 However, a parent or legal guardian may permit possession of a handgun by a minor for the purposes specified above.5


There is no minimum age requirement to possess rifles and shotguns in Georgia. Federal age restrictions impose stricter limits.


Georgia prohibits the possession or control of a handgun by any person under age 18.1


This prohibition does not apply if the underage person is:


-Attending a hunter education course or a firearms safety course;


-Engaging in practice in the use of a firearm or target shooting at an established range authorized by the governing body of the jurisdiction where such range is located;


-Engaging in an organized competition involving the use of a firearm or participating in or practicing for a performance by an organized non-profit group that uses firearms as a part of such performance;


-Hunting or fishing pursuant to a valid license if such person has in his or her possession a valid hunting or fishing license if required; is engaged in legal hunting or fishing; has permission of the owner of the land on which the activities are being conducted; and the handgun, whenever loaded, is carried only in an open and fully exposed manner; or


-Traveling to or from any of the aforementioned activities, if the handgun is not loaded.2


In addition, this prohibition does not apply if the person under age 18 is:


-On real property under the control of his or her parent, legal guardian, or grandparent and who has the permission of the parent or legal guardian to possess a handgun; or


-At his or her residence and possesses a handgun while exercising rights authorized by Georgia provisions regarding the justified use of force against another with the permission of his or her parent or legal guardian.3





Federal:
Minimum Age for Gun Possession: Subject to limited exceptions*, federal law prohibits the possession of a handgun or handgun ammunition by any person under the age of 18.17,18 Federal law provides no minimum age for the possession of long guns or long gun ammunition.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure they are going for criminal negligence...


In other words, the parents should have known better...
 
#22
sloporsche said:
I can only imagine the outrage if last year the FBI broke down the family door, shot the dog , handcuffed everybody, confiscated every firearm in the house but no one was charged . There is no handheld devise that tests people to see if they are a gun nut job sadly . The fbi will review their procedures i am sure but do we want to be like what is going on over in england people are in jail over praying and talking trash to a POLICE DOG . The kid was a nutjob and the father was not too far behind , that kid is gonna get used in jail big time
Click to expand...

You're not wrong. But I'm pretty sure Biden's FBI will unjustly blame all gun owners so if they take a little heat it's no skin off our ass.
 
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#23
diverdon said:
You're not wrong. But I'm pretty sure Biden's FBI will unjustly blame all gun owners so if they take a little heat it's no skin off our ass.
Click to expand...
of course they will never let a crisis go to waste is politics 101 ,they have pre-written anti-guns laws they just take out of the files and try to get public sympathy to pass them ....the bigger the body count the louder the voices and brandon is just looking FOR ANYTHING he can sign as to make his exit legacy better ...politics again
 
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#24
When your kid is a fucking mongo retard, tranny, crossdressing fag and/or on mental health drugs and posting death threats online to the point where the police and FBI have to come to your house, you DO NOT GIVE THEM A GUN!!!!

I hope this asshole dies in prison alongside his asshole kid. I hope they both get raped in prison several times a day, especially since the kid looks like he will enjoy that sort of thing. On what planet was arming this rotten little asshole a good idea? We know for a 100% certainty the FBI was working with the kid, encouraging him and probably helping him with the plot. Hell, the FBI probably drove him to the school with the gun and provided the ammo. The FBI will do anything to help the leftists win the next election and any distraction from the failed policies of the left is on the table. I'm willing to bet we have 6 more of these shootings before November, all with people "on the radar" of the FBI.

Every little asshole who makes threats against his school or church should be locked in a mental health facility for 30 days and evaluated. Not one should EVER be allowed back into a school building or onto school property ever again at any age. Setting foot on school grounds or walking onto even a stadium should be a felony and have a five year minimum sentence and enforced for their entire lives. If they have kids who go to public school, they can drop them off at the end of the block.

I'm tired of hearing how it is the guns fault and then finding out they knew about this kid and his shitty problems for years and did not a fucking thing to stop him.
 
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#26
Bender said:
I actually agree with this. We all need accountability
Click to expand...
Be careful what you wish for. This is heading toward England style gun storage laws with mandatory inspections by police. Following that comes holding you accountable if someone steals your gun from home/car/boat/person and they hold you accountable for any crimes committed with it.


This will be a Felony.
1725643229284.png
 
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#29
lonegunman762x51 said:
When your kid is a fucking mongo retard, tranny, crossdressing fag and/or on mental health drugs and posting death threats online to the point where the police and FBI have to come to your house, you DO NOT GIVE THEM A GUN!!!!
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, in our country - it is perfectly appropriate for FREEDOM and COMMON SENSE to remain mutually exclusive.
 
#30
Numb_Skull said:
If the father would have given the kid the beating he deserved and he spent the next 90 days in the ICU recovering from a lacerated liver he likely would be looking at a similar jail sentence. Whats a man to do?
Click to expand...
Some of these kids, I swear just need dropped off with a father in the woods for a year. No TV, no phone, just a dad and a dad that doles out the punishment they need. No one to call for help, no teacher to complain too. They would come back after a year a different person..........but nope we live in a woman's world, and women want pills, not belts!

My mother in the 70s and 80s beat my ASS as a kid. I had so much fear of her, that I reported by wrongs before they even got discovered. I knew the punishment for the crime, I didn't want the punishment for the lie. If dad had to get involved, I wouldn't be here today. Looking back, I deserved everything I got!
 
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#31
OK, I'm not on board with this, and am a bit surprised at the cheerleading for stuff like this. Do you really think the State will use proper discretion for when a parent is culpable in situations like this, or will it inevitably bleed to "every time" punish a parent that gifted someone a firearm?

How many people give their kids a firearm? This is a bad precedent, because it will become the norm, every time..."Oh, you gave your 15 year old a gun, and now at age 25, has committed a crime? Punish the parents!" Remember when civil forfeiture "will only be used against the 'bad guys'?"
 
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#32
Dude knew his baby was sick and gave him a gun? We arent talking about structured target practice either, just up and gives him a weapon and ammo.. I think he's sick too. Does anyone else smell alphabet agencies all over this?
 
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#33
Cody S said:
I can't believe I'm saying this but I'd seek death for both. dude knew his baby was sick and gave him a gun?
Click to expand...

There’s also that thing about the guy who shot Chris Kyle…

…many chimed in that shooting was to help him “get back on the saddle.”

Personal Opinion: The results speak for themselves.
 
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#34
yeah I deleted that part of my post right after because I'm so conflicted on how I feel about all of this. but I do feel like if I fucked up that bad I would want the death penalty for myself.
 
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#35
buffalowinter said:
Be careful what you wish for. This is heading toward England style gun storage laws with mandatory inspections by police. Following that comes holding you accountable if someone steals your gun from home/car/boat/person and they hold you accountable for any crimes committed with it.


This will be a Felony.
View attachment 8495866
Click to expand...
I agree. I don’t like the gun aspect of the law to punish the parents. I think the parents should be held accountable regardless of the gift of the gun. But I to agree that it could be abused.
 
#36
ChezJfrey said:
OK, I'm not on board with this, and am a bit surprised at the cheerleading for stuff like this. Do you really think the State will use proper discretion for when a parent is culpable in situations like this, or will it inevitably bleed to "every time" punish a parent that gifted someone a firearm?

How many people give their kids a firearm? This is a bad precedent, because it will become the norm, every time..."Oh, you gave your 15 year old a gun, and now at age 25, has committed a crime? Punish the parents!" Remember when civil forfeiture "will only be used against the 'bad guys'?"
Click to expand...
Please see post above. I don’t like the gun as a doorway to accountability. But the parents should hold some form of responsibility.
 
#38
buffalowinter said:
England style gun storage laws and inspections by police...this is where this is heading.
Click to expand...
Actually, not saying or implying that at all.

But responsible parenting is making sure that if you have gotten a visit from the FBI that your kid is making threats online (they don't do that at random... the FBI that is).... then you have some kind of responsibility to do your best to keep firearms out of the kid's hands.

Ok, so kid breaks into cabinet. Finds combination (or guesses it) to the safe. Gets a gun from somewhere else. Smashes safe... well you have made an effort to keep the guns out of the kid's hands and made your best effort.

If the father did those things and the kid 'liberated' his AR when he shouldn't have... then it's all on the kid.

If 'dad' gave him a Christmas AR-15 and said "Have fun, son." After being alerted to the kid making threats... then IMHO, there should be some kind of culpability there.

Well said above... with freedom comes 'personal' responsibility is how I always looked at it. We are blessed wtih a lot of freedom. We'll lose it if we are stupid. Or criminal. Or if 'our' freedom impinges on the freedom of others... in the form of killing them or their children, etc.

But you raise a good point, BW. And, yes, that IS where things are going. Including in places like VT where the commies are trying to enact laws to require guns to be locked up. Even though our state Constitution states that every reesident is required to own a firearm and enough powder and ball to muster in defense of your town. Really. Every bunny-hugging progressive commie POS who moves here is required by VT Constitution to be armed and ready to defend Vermont. Yeah.... like any of them actually follow that law.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
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#39
kl3309 said:
Weird, that's exactly what a gun control advocate would say.
Click to expand...

Gotta love the Hitler - esque end - all argument there.

Sounds more like the Heart Failure guy complaining about his diuretics not working while wolfing down a party - size pack of potato chips :ROFLMAO:

As mentioned previously, in this case…

…the results have clearly spoken for themselves…

…just saying.
 
#40
sirhrmechanic said:
Actually, not saying or implying that at all.

But responsible parenting is making sure that if you have gotten a visit from the FBI that your kid is making threats online (they don't do that at random... the FBI that is).... then you have some kind of responsibility to do your best to keep firearms out of the kid's hands.

Ok, so kid breaks into cabinet. Finds combination (or guesses it) to the safe. Gets a gun from somewhere else. Smashes safe... well you have made an effort to keep the guns out of the kid's hands and made your best effort.

If the father did those things and the kid 'liberated' his AR when he shouldn't have... then it's all on the kid.

If 'dad' gave him a Christmas AR-15 and said "Have fun, son." After being alerted to the kid making threats... then IMHO, there should be some kind of culpability there.

Well said above... with freedom comes 'personal' responsibility is how I always looked at it. We are blessed wtih a lot of freedom. We'll lose it if we are stupid. Or criminal. Or if 'our' freedom impinges on the freedom of others... in the form of killing them or their children, etc.

But you raise a good point, BW. And, yes, that IS where things are going. Including in places like VT where the commies are trying to enact laws to require guns to be locked up. Even though our state Constitution states that every reesident is required to own a firearm and enough powder and ball to muster in defense of your town. Really. Every bunny-hugging progressive commie POS who moves here is required by VT Constitution to be armed and ready to defend Vermont. Yeah.... like any of them actually follow that law.

Cheers,

Sirhr
Click to expand...
That's the difference between this one and Sandy Hook...
 
#42
So, to the people complaining about "he was on the fbi radar", do you think that maybe their radar is pretty fucking broad and includes anyone who posts or has an account on gun forums? If someone from here did something horrible like this, they will definetly say "he was on our radar". Because this place is crawling with feds and watched like a hawk.
 
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#43
Cody S said:
Dude knew his baby was sick and gave him a gun? We arent talking about structured target practice either, just up and gives him a weapon and ammo.. I think he's sick too. Does anyone else smell alphabet agencies all over this?
Click to expand...

Motive, means, opportunity. I agree alphabet agencies involved.

I would guesstimate 99% of the population or greater are unaware of the technology that exists and what our govt has at its fingertips. When you mention simulated sensory perception and neurological manipulation.. people think you are moonbat crazy, yet they cant tell you the difference between a amp and a volt.
It is very easy (for them) to alter ones perception of what they see, hear, feel, smell to whatever they want it to be... and while more intelligent people would really question it and freak out, a more emotionally damaged vulnerable person would react in a different manner, they capitalize on this im guessing... easy to manipulate, make really depressed, maybe see things that seem real... they been working on this for over 50 years. I seen the results and know its real...
They find a mark, shitty kid, already has a story, weak, emotional wacko, .... bam. The rest is what we see. Study the behavior patterns of these kids.. their actions, tactics, then everything in the background.. Some of these are just too odd. Uvalde has some interesting issues....
 
#45
Edsel said:
Gotta love the Hitler - esque end - all argument there.

Sounds more like the Heart Failure guy complaining about his diuretics not working while wolfing down a party - size pack of potato chips :ROFLMAO:

As mentioned previously, in this case…

…the results have clearly spoken for themselves…

…just saying.
Click to expand...
Fail to see how your correlating opposition to your viewpoint to anything "Hitleresque." It would actually be the converse, just sayin'.
 
#46
AllenOne1 said:
What happened to starting your kids off with a .22 rimfire rifle…….You can learn everything you will ever need to learn about gun handling, shooting and safety with a .22 rimfire.
Click to expand...
Okay fudd

Next you’ll say you can’t hunt with a .223/5.56, 9mm has no “stoping power”, maybe women can only handle a revolver.
 
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#48
akmike47 said:
Okay fudd

Next you’ll say you can’t hunt with a .223/5.56, 9mm has no “stoping power”, maybe women can only handle a revolver.
Click to expand...
That's what you got? I suppose you would have started him off with a 50BMG to prove his manhood. Tell us all, what did your granddad start you off with? Mine started me off with a 22 rifle at the city dump. He was a very wise WWII vet that saw action he would never tell me about. So ya maybe I am a fudd in your book, but I know what works.
 
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#49
AllenOne1 said:
What happened to starting your kids off with a .22 rimfire rifle. It seems every time we have one of these shootings the kids have an AR or handgun, that they "own" or have access too. You can learn everything you will ever need to learn about gun handling, shooting and safety with a .22 rimfire.

Granted some kids can handle a higher level of responsibility than others, something the adults should be able to judge and adjust to accordingly. They also should be able to adjust to the fact that cops are knocking on their door.
Click to expand...
Start out with a Daisy or Crosman air rifle.
 
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#50
For those who say an "AR" has no place in hunting....

In 1988 I moved to North Carolina with my trusty .270 and other rifle and shotguns and pistols. Wasn't much then, but I was a poor. And had my 'kid' guns. Including my 700 .270 that I had used for my late youth (after deciding that I needed more gun than a Model 94).

Went deer hunting in fall 88 in the Fayetteville area. Spotted a nice deer front on. Shot it with my .270. And was rewarded with a pile of hamburger! Damn deer was torn up like a semi hit it. I was used to big northwoods deer that weigh 150 - 200 lbs! East Carolina deer are about the size of a whippet. dog. You shoot one with a 'real' deer rifle and they kind of explode. (I did learn not to take front-on shots on puppy-sized deer)

Bought my first personally-owned CAR-15 after that. Shot a ton of deer with it. Handy in the woods. The 5.56 was perfect cartridge. Didn't care if i scratched it or it got dragged around. Great brush gun. It was the perfect deer rifle for the East Carolina. Not so much here in Vermontistan. Though if it were legal (Can't use .22 cal up here)... I'd be happy to use one in the North Woods, too. Shorter ranges and picking shots. But nothing wrong with a 5.56 for deer.

So don't be a Fudd. An AR is one of the best all-around platforms there is for sooooo many things. Including hunting.

Cheers,

Sirhr

PS. And, yeah, I started out with an air rifle. Then a .22. Then a .32 Remington Pump (borrowed). Then my first .30-30. Then I used my summer money to buy a .270. Still have everything but the .32 Rem. And I am 'supposed' to inherit that someday. But don't want to because it will mean my hunting and woods mentor has passed and I don't want that!
 
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