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Hey from one oldnewguy to another, I've got the same question. Sometimes I wonder if I didn't give a certain brand/lot a chance.... but I also wonder, for instance, if I buy a bunch of Wolf Match Extra to practice with, what are the odds that a different batch will make a big difference? Of course I know the answer from a technical standpoint: who knows? But are some manufacturers more consistent than others?How many groups do you shoot before you're satisfied with your decision?
Let's say you trying a new brand, or testing a new lot or 2, I'm just curious how many rounds most people go through.
Center fire or rim fire?How many groups do you shoot before you're satisfied with your decision?
Let's say you trying a new brand, or testing a new lot or 2, I'm just curious how many rounds most people go through.
Sorry, I was only talking about .22 LR, but I assumed we were talking rimfire. Sorry.Center fire or rim fire?
Wow, thanks Aftermath! You make very good points. I've shot competition many years ago, but it was international skeet. My rifle skills are pretty good, or so I thought until I started shooting my various .22 LR's at 50 yards, hoping to shoot "one hole" groups. I'm not competing at this point and may never find a place close to Fredericksburg VA to do so, but my father was a competition pistol shooter and I got the bug. Not necessarily to beat someone else, but to shoot the best I can. And maybe do it well enough to brag, lol.First, yes to the question about some manufacturers SEEMINGLY have better consistency in their high end offerings. CenterX comes to mind.
When I buy a new lot, it's definitely a crap shoot, but I buy 5000 rounds. Then I open 50 of the individual boxes and take a round from each one, replacing the missing round and closing the box back up with one from a dedicated box. I shoot the 50 and pray for good groups. Sometimes it's obvious with the second magazine that this ammo is not right for this rifle. That's ok...my LGS will take the good stuff as trade and we do this sort of thing once in a while. Or I might keep it for plinking ammo...which is all i really do anyway since I don't like to compete except for beers and bragging rights. Or I might relegate it to the 10/22's or I might give it to the families youngsters to go shoot red eared sliders.
If that box of random 50 pulled from that random 5000 rounds does shoot good, I try to find more of that lot. I have never found more of that lot.
I only have 2 B14R's. Those are my accurate 22LR's. I have several 10/22's, a Ruger American, an old Springfield M2 22LR some old Remingtons and an old Winchester and 3 old Browning autos. None of the old rifles are quite as accurate as the B14R's except that Springfield and mostly collect dust. I do keep them cleaned and lubed. Anyways, I'm not that great of a shooter is my point and do not have the real high end 22's.
As for weighing rounds, there is documented evidence that measuring rim thickness is worth doing. l don't. I don't weigh, I don't reshape. I just shoot stuff. Again, I don't formally compete. Fuck that. I like to shoot so I don't want to make it competitive and start working at it too much.
There are some true 22LR experts here that have tons of write ups on this forum. One is @justin amateur
EDIT: I mostly shoot CCI Standard Velocity. It's real consistent for me. I am shooting the heads of grasshoppers at 40 yards with 9/10 hits. Now, if I am going to shoot against my brother for beers, the CenterX comes out and he doesn't have any...HAHAHA!
LOLOLOLFirst, yes to the question about some manufacturers SEEMINGLY have better consistency in their high end offerings. CenterX comes to mind.
When I buy a new lot, it's definitely a crap shoot, but I buy 5000 rounds. Then I open 50 of the individual boxes and take a round from each one, replacing the missing round and closing the box back up with one from a dedicated box. I shoot the 50 and pray for good groups. Sometimes it's obvious with the second magazine that this ammo is not right for this rifle. That's ok...my LGS will take the good stuff as trade and we do this sort of thing once in a while. Or I might keep it for plinking ammo...which is all i really do anyway since I don't like to compete except for beers and bragging rights. Or I might relegate it to the 10/22's or I might give it to the families youngsters to go shoot red eared sliders.
If that box of random 50 pulled from that random 5000 rounds does shoot good, I try to find more of that lot. I have never found more of that lot.
I only have 2 B14R's. Those are my accurate 22LR's. I have several 10/22's, a Ruger American, an old Springfield M2 22LR some old Remingtons and an old Winchester and 3 old Browning autos. None of the old rifles are quite as accurate as the B14R's except that Springfield and mostly collect dust. I do keep them cleaned and lubed. Anyways, I'm not that great of a shooter is my point and do not have the real high end 22's.
As for weighing rounds, there is documented evidence that measuring rim thickness is worth doing. l don't. I don't weigh, I don't reshape. I just shoot stuff. Again, I don't formally compete. Fuck that. I like to shoot so I don't want to make it competitive and start working at it too much.
There are some true 22LR experts here that have tons of write ups on this forum. One is @justin amateur
EDIT: I mostly shoot CCI Standard Velocity. It's real consistent for me. I am shooting the heads of grasshoppers at 40 yards with 9/10 hits. Now, if I am going to shoot against my brother for beers, the CenterX comes out and he doesn't have any...HAHAHA!
You just reminded me that I need to get my Labradar out and use it. I bought it for my centerfire loads, but never think about it when I'm testing rimfire ammo. Doh!!!For PRS/NRL usage…I do 10 rounds for foulers, 2x 5 round groups at 50, 2x 5 round groups at 100. From there I narrow down my finalists and do a test at 200 and 300 to look for consistency.
Make sure to chrono all my results and try to make a decision within a 50 round box. I just don’t have the bankroll to do more than that.
For PRS/NRL usage…I do 10 rounds for foulers, 2x 5 round groups at 50, 2x 5 round groups at 100. From there I narrow down my finalists and do a test at 200 and 300 to look for consistency.
Make sure to chrono all my results and try to make a decision within a 50 round box. I just don’t have the bankroll to do more than that.
Thanks! I'll check them out! I searched for matches in Virginia and it came up with zero results. I must have been doing something wrong!Similar to what I do.
OP in King George VA is the MVGC club that has PRS/MARS matches.
That was always my problem and why I buy 5k or 10k at a time. Luckily, though, my neighbor/friend is also the owner of my LGS. If I buy ammo that won't give me the performance I am looking for, he will sell it for me and not take much for doing so. In fact, we usually both end up with some profit or break even, especially if I was able to get stuff in with free shipping. Even now, 22LR flies off the shelves.I don’t see how lot testing can be done on your own unless you have a good local dealer. By the time I get something shipped in and tested it’s sold out.
I am going to the thought of buying a 5000 case of SKLR or Center X. If it doesn’t shoot well then I’ll just blame the ammo on my misses.
I’m not in a position to buy 50 round boxes and then hope I get a good series of tests. 500 bricks also go so fast that it’s the same issue with 50 round boxes.
I don’t see how lot testing can be done on your own unless you have a good local dealer. By the time I get something shipped in and tested it’s sold out.
I am going to the thought of buying a 5000 case of SKLR or Center X. If it doesn’t shoot well then I’ll just blame the ammo on my misses.
I’m not in a position to buy 50 round boxes and then hope I get a good series of tests. 500 bricks also go so fast that it’s the same issue with 50 round boxes.
Here are some places to look for the coming year. NVGC is real close for you but there are others around you like Quantico and Cavalier down near Richmond only an hour away. All depends on how far you want to drive.Thanks! I'll check them out! I searched for matches in Virginia and it came up with zero results. I must have been doing something wrong!
Same here.... I wish I had a LGS that had ANY high end .22 LR on the shelf.That was always my problem and why I buy 5k or 10k at a time. Luckily, though, my neighbor/friend is also the owner of my LGS. If I buy ammo that won't give me the performance I am looking for, he will sell it for me and not take much for doing so. In fact, we usually both end up with some profit or break even, especially if I was able to get stuff in with free shipping. Even now, 22LR flies off the shelves.
Thanks Rob! I'll check them out. I'm looking for a place to practice too and not just shoot in matches. There is a really nice club locally but the waiting list is 4+ years and membership is very expensive. I don't want to pay so much for a membership that I feel guilty if I don't shoot...Here are some places to look for the coming year. NVGC is real close for you but there are others around you like Quantico and Cavalier down near Richmond only an hour away. All depends on how far you want to drive.
Modern American Rimfire Series
Pushing Precision Rimfire to a new level.modernamericanrimfireseries.com
Precision Rifle Series - Atlantic Coast Rimfire Region
The Precision Rifle Series is the preeminent rifle organization in the world, structuring a yearly points race for both the PRS Pro Bolt Gun Series and the PRS Regional Series. The PRS Championship Shooting Series is synonymous with precision rifle shooting.www.precisionrifleseries.com
Unfortunately, it's a 7 1/2 hour drive.how close are you to Jackson Kentucky?
Coal tipple rimfire range is excellent
I think I'll drive over to the NVGC and have a look around. Membership fees are reasonable, just have to find a sponsor. I want to wander around and get a feel for the place and see how busy it is on a perfect day like today.Thanks Rob! I'll check them out. I'm looking for a place to practice too and not just shoot in matches. There is a really nice club locally but the waiting list is 4+ years and membership is very expensive. I don't want to pay so much for a membership that I feel guilty if I don't shoot...
Again, I really appreciate the info, driving an hour is no big deal to me!
No worries, I have a 50 yard range in my front yard and shoot almost every day, but what I don't have is more distance, or a place to test my centerfire loads. So NVGC might be the ticket, but I'm going to check out as many as possible before I join anywhere. Plus, I want to watch some matches in person and not look at videos. From my competition skeet days, I think I know the atmosphere, but I've never been to any .22 competitions.sorry bout that. the best part about 22lr is it's usually really easy to find a spot to get 50 yards and that's enough for some testing or zeroing or positional practice.
I think I'll drive over to the NVGC and have a look around. Membership fees are reasonable, just have to find a sponsor. I want to wander around and get a feel for the place and see how busy it is on a perfect day like today.
That would be awesome!!! Thank you!My best friend is their range officer who handles the new guy walk throughs. Let me talk to him and maybe you can check it out with him sometime. He is also the owner of MARS and runs the matches at NVGC.
I'm really looking forward to meeting him and learning more about MARS too. That seems like to be exactly what I'm looking for!That would be awesome!!! Thank you!
Do you notice much difference between 100, 200 and 300 yards?Similar to what I do.
OP in King George VA is the MVGC club that has PRS/MARS matches.
200 and on very hard to test rimfire IMO. So much affects the bullet. If you can get any sort of legible groups I’d be pleased lol. 50 yards groups can be all touching and shooting great. 100 yards can double that size or more. 200 and your looking at a 5 inch group.Do you notice much difference between 100, 200 and 300 yards?
As in do you often find ammo that is amazing at 100 but falls to pieces after that?
Wellllll......some folks are just good at testing. Others are good at other stuff, like making weird accusations about good testers. And Shit.Testing every cartridge is the only way to be sure.
No, seriously. I’m convinced that rimfire enthusiasts just enjoy “lot testing” and carping about SD numbers. No one goes and does any “productive” shooting. Just test, test, test.
I hate testing, it's tedious and frustrating, not least because I haven't been able to buy decent ammo in reasonable quantities that means I keep needing to re do it.Testing every cartridge is the only way to be sure.
No, seriously. I’m convinced that rimfire enthusiasts just enjoy “lot testing” and carping about SD numbers. No one goes and does any “productive” shooting. Just test, test, test.
And into some Haitian frying pan!Unfortunately that cat is well out of the bag.
I don't bother past 200yards, as thankfully most matches don't go past that for me.200 and on very hard to test rimfire IMO. So much affects the bullet. If you can get any sort of legible groups I’d be pleased lol. 50 yards groups can be all touching and shooting great. 100 yards can double that size or more. 200 and your looking at a 5 inch group.
Do you notice much difference between 100, 200 and 300 yards?
As in do you often find ammo that is amazing at 100 but falls to pieces after that?
What sort of accuracy do you expect from you rifle say at 100, 200, 300 yards?Some do but not a lot luckily. Funny part is it was usually the most expensive ammo. Not sure if they are made more for the 50 yard BR circuit or what but they did bad out deep. Most expensive ammo I use is Center X and usually use SK Long Range.
I test out to 400 yards as that is where matches go to around me so I want to know what's going on. Yes there are more things going on when you get out farther with a .22 but I try to do it on calmer days where I know where the wind is coming from and what it is doing.
Beetroot, was there supposed to be a picture of that group attached?I don't bother past 200yards, as thankfully most matches don't go past that for me.
The 150-200yard mark is usually where it starts to fall apart in my experience, I'm trying to find out what accuracy people are actually getting at those distances vs cherry picked groups.
I shot this 20 round group at 156 yards in a bit of wind. The vertical was basically as much as the ammo ES suggested it would be and the horizontal was wind.
I'm thinking this is about as good as can be expected.
What sort of accuracy do you expect from you rifle say at 100, 200, 300 yards?
Yes.... it's attached nowBeetroot, was there supposed to be a picture of that group attached?
I have 2 bricks left of my lot of SK Long Range. I have a case waiting to test. Rob, I do like you do. I check( or adjust ) my tune at 100yds, then go to 200yds (only having to move 10 makes in or out.) I have done with 3 different lots, this will be the 4th. I then check my everyday ammo, Eley Contact and see if it shoots good with the new tune. So far 4 lot of Contact has shot great with the tune. Contact shoots very close to my dope for SKLR.I forgot to mention that as I did it I used my tuner to tune the load. I tune at 100 but check at all the other ranges. I buy a case at a time and it is what it is but gets tuned. I buy better ammo so the chance of getting a dud is lower.
Roanoke VA has long range matches. https://roanokerifle.com/matches-and-events/long-range-22lr-match/For PRS/NRL usage…I do 10 rounds for foulers, 2x 5 round groups at 50, 2x 5 round groups at 100. From there I narrow down my finalists and do a test at 200 and 300 to look for consistency.
Make sure to chrono all my results and try to make a decision within a 50 round box. I just don’t have the bankroll to do more than that.
Hey Rob, what tuner do you use? I'm not familiar with tuners at all..I forgot to mention that as I did it I used my tuner to tune the load. I tune at 100 but check at all the other ranges. I buy a case at a time and it is what it is but gets tuned. I buy better ammo so the chance of getting a dud is lower.