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DocRDS

Head Maffs Monkey
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 21, 2012
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The Great Beyond
#1
I can't talk about this elsewhere. Have an employee. Not doing well. I'm trying to throw him a lifeline so he can get to retirement. Give him his review, its not great, but its not bad ("I need you to change some behaviors") no PIP or coaching or anything like that.

Dude flips his lid on me. No offense but trying to stay cool and calm was not his strong point.
Tells me the conditions for him not to retire in a month. I'm a little--That's a bold strategy Cotton... (Inside I'm like Well, Bye!)

Now I know I am a mega-flame asshole in here (because I can be), but I apologize for using words like "crap" at work. I'm actually "Mister Nice" (STOP LAUGHING YOU JACKHOLES ITS TRUE!)

Who the hell after a bad review makes demands to stay employed? You guys wonder why I think people are dense as hell. I'm the person trying to help him, everyone else is scared of him..he literally bullied a professor into re-writting his review. So I knew the project he wanted, he was going to get (one of his demands) so to at least make him happy I told him he had be assigned, but I couldn't do the other 2 conditions. It was above my paygrade (Its a copout, more on that in a sec).

Dude then lectures me on how its my job to negotiate with the appropriate pay grade to get what he wants. (I'll take how to get Doc to can your ass on the spot for $1000 alex)

Actually it wasn't much of a negotiation: Convo went like this
"Hey Boss, X wants this or he retires"
"Do you care"
"Nope"
"Good let him retire, he's always pissed off anyway"

As the kids say:
I just can't even....
 
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#3
First, you are absolutely correct in re: your "inner thoughts." Let him go. Remember, if he goes on his own (i.e. quits), then he can't sue for "wrongful termination." And, furthermore, you aren't responsible for severance, etc. I'd let him go. Or, at least, let him make the call.

Now, the big question I'd have is "how is his behavior affecting the team?" For me, as a manager, it was all about the team and how everyone on the team interacted with each other. Rule #1 - Protect the team at all costs. If someone's behavior was causing the team to go down, then you might have to fire that person to protect the team. Yeah, I know it may suck for that one individual, but you have all those other individuals under your control. You are taking that one person out to protect the others on the team.

If that's not an issue, then yeah, let him retire on his terms. And if he wants to quit before that, then let him. He'll only get what he's entitled to and no more (i.e. no severance, etc.).
 
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#5
Let him spend the next 30 days looking for his stapler.

1726688937271.png
 
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#6
As an employer, you never want an employee to be so valuable you can't function without them. As an employee, you want to be so valuable a company can't function without you. Sounds like your employee fancy's himself more valuable than he is to you. I can't wait to hear the rest of this story. Will the employee realize his bluff has been called? Will he double down? Will he recognize he played a bad hand, and fold to eat crow..or will he leave and your company realize how valuable he was to the bottom line of the company. Stay tuned for more!
 
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#8
Been there before. Use the review to give him nothing. One of two things happens: either he retires or he messes up so you can document it and fire him and not pay unemployment. Either way problem is solved. You must document everything just in case.

Unjustified bad attitudes are a cancer in every work environment.
 
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#10
Fx51LP308 said:
First, you are absolutely correct in re: your "inner thoughts." Let him go. Remember, if he goes on his own (i.e. quits), then he can't sue for "wrongful termination." And, furthermore, you aren't responsible for severance, etc. I'd let him go. Or, at least, let him make the call.

Now, the big question I'd have is "how is his behavior affecting the team?" For me, as a manager, it was all about the team and how everyone on the team interacted with each other. Rule #1 - Protect the team at all costs. If someone's behavior was causing the team to go down, then you might have to fire that person to protect the team. Yeah, I know it may suck for that one individual, but you have all those other individuals under your control. You are taking that one person out to protect the others on the team.

If that's not an issue, then yeah, let him retire on his terms. And if he wants to quit before that, then let him. He'll only get what he's entitled to and no more (i.e. no severance, etc.).
Click to expand...
Oh 100% he needs to be gone. Bullying your boss (the other one) and generally being negative towards me (Yes I am a nice guy) or my boss (who is truly a pushover), while my other peeps are 100% keepers. My office mate is usually bad cop and she's out on maternity leave.

We're gonna let him retire--I just can't believe his negotiating tactics. For a supposed big wig he leveraged his knowledge....

poorly

I just had to share because I cannot believe what I saw/heard. But hey...doing me a favor!
 
#11
DocRDS said:
I can't talk about this elsewhere. Have an employee. Not doing well. I'm trying to throw him a lifeline so he can get to retirement. Give him his review, its not great, but its not bad ("I need you to change some behaviors") no PIP or coaching or anything like that.

Dude flips his lid on me. No offense but trying to stay cool and calm was not his strong point.
Tells me the conditions for him not to retire in a month. I'm a little--That's a bold strategy Cotton... (Inside I'm like Well, Bye!)

Now I know I am a mega-flame asshole in here (because I can be), but I apologize for using words like "crap" at work. I'm actually "Mister Nice" (STOP LAUGHING YOU JACKHOLES ITS TRUE!)

Who the hell after a bad review makes demands to stay employed? You guys wonder why I think people are dense as hell. I'm the person trying to help him, everyone else is scared of him..he literally bullied a professor into re-writting his review. So I knew the project he wanted, he was going to get (one of his demands) so to at least make him happy I told him he had be assigned, but I couldn't do the other 2 conditions. It was above my paygrade (Its a copout, more on that in a sec).

Dude then lectures me on how its my job to negotiate with the appropriate pay grade to get what he wants. (I'll take how to get Doc to can your ass on the spot for $1000 alex)

Actually it wasn't much of a negotiation: Convo went like this
"Hey Boss, X wants this or he retires"
"Do you care"
"Nope"
"Good let him retire, he's always pissed off anyway"

As the kids say:
I just can't even....
Click to expand...

Could be protected class due to age, hopefully he retires so you don't have to deal with this behavior anymore.
 
#14
DocRDS said:
Oh 100% he needs to be gone. Bullying your boss (the other one) and generally being negative towards me (Yes I am a nice guy) or my boss (who is truly a pushover), while my other peeps are 100% keepers. My office mate is usually bad cop and she's out on maternity leave.

We're gonna let him retire--I just can't believe his negotiating tactics. For a supposed big wig he leveraged his knowledge....

poorly

I just had to share because I cannot believe what I saw/heard. But hey...doing me a favor!
Click to expand...

Now, if you're looking for him to depart (perhaps) a bit earlier than the standard retirement date, don't fire him, unless it's "for cause." What you can do is "incentivize" his early departure by giving him really bad/unpleasant work assignments that will piss him off (i.e. bury him in mindless paperwork, etc. or assign him to a boss you know he hates, etc. ). It's how "we" did it. 🤠
 
#15
hkguns said:
That has literally nothing to do with the generation in which he was supposedly born. Take 15 random employees and you'll find 2-5 just like him at all ages.
Click to expand...
Was just going to say the same. I have worked at the same place for a VERY long time, and have seen many with the same attitude come and go. Only difference is that the older guys CAN simply retire, so make it easier on both sides. The younger ones can make your life hell. I see this kind of attitude more in the long-term 40-somethings and the brand new ones.
 
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#17
AZLong said:
Was just going to say the same. I have worked at the same place for a VERY long time, and have seen many with the same attitude come and go. Only difference is that the older guys CAN simply retire, so make it easier on both sides. The younger ones can make your life hell. I see this kind of attitude more in the long-term 40-somethings and the brand new ones.
Click to expand...

I'll say! Freakin' GenZ/Millenials that think they know how to run a company.

I had to quit one of my side gigs that I really liked because of this. The younger managers are fearful of someone with more years of experience and knowledge than they have, and could crap all over their management techniques. You become a threat to them, and they want to "Vote you off the Island." And they do things to express their displeasure accordingly (i,e, demotions, etc.). So I bailed outta there before they could vote me out. I hated that because I really liked the colleagues with which I worked (a lot of lawyers, etc.). But not to be, I guess.
 
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#18
Fx51LP308 said:
First, you are absolutely correct in re: your "inner thoughts." Let him go. Remember, if he goes on his own (i.e. quits), then he can't sue for "wrongful termination." And, furthermore, you aren't responsible for severance, etc. I'd let him go. Or, at least, let him make the call.

Now, the big question I'd have is "how is his behavior affecting the team?" For me, as a manager, it was all about the team and how everyone on the team interacted with each other. Rule #1 - Protect the team at all costs. If someone's behavior was causing the team to go down, then you might have to fire that person to protect the team. Yeah, I know it may suck for that one individual, but you have all those other individuals under your control. You are taking that one person out to protect the others on the team.

If that's not an issue, then yeah, let him retire on his terms. And if he wants to quit before that, then let him. He'll only get what he's entitled to and no more (i.e. no severance, etc.).
Click to expand...
This^^^^
Enough said...
Mac
 
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#19
Short-bus said:
As an employer, you never want an employee to be so valuable you can't function without them. As an employee, you want to be so valuable a company can't function without you. Sounds like your employee fancy's himself more valuable than he is to you. I can't wait to hear the rest of this story. Will the employee realize his bluff has been called? Will he double down? Will he recognize he played a bad hand, and fold to eat crow..or will he leave and your company realize how valuable he was to the bottom line of the company. Stay tuned for more!
Click to expand...
I left a fortune 50 company to go help a sick friend run his business before he passed. I was a director who ran a team of analysts. I left on good terms, but I busted several peoples balls after I left because the stock dropped. (pure coincidence) It made for some fun ribbing at the executive level. In reality, I was one employee in a company of 50,000. To this day I remind some of my friends their stock tanked when they allowed me to leave.

I believe if you really make yourself that invaluable in what you do, you will be pigeon-holed and will never go anywhere else.

I say turn up the heat and let him 'self-select'. No severance, no unemployment, no regrets.
 
#21
hkguns said:
That has literally nothing to do with the generation in which he was supposedly born. Take 15 random employees and you'll find 2-5 just like him at all ages.
Click to expand...
Yeah I know--needed a clickbait title. The millennials are all bitching about having to come into the office once a week.

Im a Gen-X'r myself so Im not far behind. But as the "forgotten" generation, we troll everyone.
 
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#22
My wife had a very mediocre employee try to dictate a schedule change for himself. He said it needed to happen or he'd quit. She accepted his resignation on the spot. Had him wait while she typed a resignation letter for him to sign. She let him go on the spot.
 
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#23
\
BadDogPSD said:
My wife had a very mediocre employee try to dictate a schedule change for himself. He said it needed to happen or he'd quit. She accepted his resignation on the spot. Had him wait while she typed a resignation letter for him to sign. She let him go on the spot.
Click to expand...
See that's the same shit. Man I don't get it. I know my skills are valuable, but don't for a second beleive I could ever walk into bosses offices and make demands.

Its like me telling frank to make me a mod or I quit posting...i don't think they could banhammer me fast enough.
 
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#26
My boss has done my job. And the few times I have been out ill or had some vacation time, he did my job. So, I am not in a position to bargain on my skills or getting the work done.

So, I don't make those demands. Instead, I do the best I can and improve when I can. And when an increase comes along, I am thankful. They could survive without me but I like having a paycheck.

As for this guy making demands or he is going to quit, so long. Don't the door hitchya where the Good Lord splitchya.

A saw a similar situation happen at the company I work for. We had a service tech and he was always looking to get out of work early (on a really good salary, just about equivalent to mine, though he did not know it and I can keep a secret.)
But he would not do things he was requested to do. And it turns out that he never liked working with a manager, such as myself, in place.

So, one morning, he comes in and as I am completing his paperwork from the day before, he starts laying down the company credit card, gas card, company phone, and keys to the new truck they just got him at the end of 2022. He said, "I don't work here anymore."

I said, "What do you mean by that?"

He said, "You know what I mean."

I did not. Is work stressful? Yes. Sometimes the bosses are demanding? Yes, that is what bosses do.

So, he walked out. I did not see which way he went. He might have had someone waiting for him. I never saw him again.

So, one of the bosses would call him and he untruthfully said I was yelling at him, etcetera, which is bold lie. And they knew it.

So, we sold the spare truck and re-christened his truck as the new spare truck and removed the phone from the account.

He is working again for someone else at quite likely a smaller pay.

Some people just have to be that way, I guess.

I could still lose a job, we could go out of business. But it won't because of me not being adult enough to handle the stresses of the job.
 
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#29
Darryle said:
I am retiring in 3 yrs unless they piss me off, then 5 and I may or may not tell them prior to the day
Click to expand...

The "Prior to the day" thing may not mater, after all. Depends on how "confidential/sensitive" your work is. The day you "give notice" is, likely, the day they'll "escort you out" anyway, for their own safety/security. I've seen it happen in re: very sensitive sales/"customer facing" jobs... Guy comes in at 10:00am to give notice, and by 10:15a, he was out the door, escorted by security. Better have your keys and personal items on your person when you give notice as you may not be allowed back to your desk to collect them. And clean off your desk of family photos, personal books, etc. the night before.
 
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#32
Fx51LP308 said:
The "Prior to the day" thing may not mater, after all. Depends on how "confidential/sensitive" your work is. The day you "give notice" is, likely, the day they'll "escort you out" anyway, for their own safety/security. I've seen it happen in re: very sensitive sales/"customer facing" jobs... Guy comes in at 10:00am to give notice, and by 10:15a, he was out the door, escorted by security. Better have your keys and personal items on your person when you give notice as you may not be allowed back to your desk to collect them. And clean off your desk of family photos, personal books, etc. the night before.
Click to expand...

We have people plan their retirement dates out months ahead of time, me, I want to keep them guessing and let them know what happens if they piss me off by being a burden on the company benefits and HR
 
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#33
Darryle said:
We have people plan their retirement dates out months ahead of time, me, I want to keep them guessing and let them know what happens if they piss me off by being a burden on the company benefits and HR
Click to expand...

I can see that working for "retirement" reasons, but not if you're "quitting" to start work somewhere else (especially if it's a competitor). I don't know if I'd want to "piss off" HR, as they can make bad things happen to those benefits (which you may not see for a long time.... if at all!). Remember, they are the experts in "bureaucracy!"

Don't piss off HR.
 
#35
Fx51LP308 said:
I can see that working for "retirement" reasons, but not if you're "quitting" to start work somewhere else (especially if it's a competitor). I don't know if I'd want to "piss off" HR, as they can make bad things happen to those benefits (which you may not see for a long time.... if at all!). Remember, they are the experts in "bureaucracy!"

Don't piss off HR.
Click to expand...
Yes. HR is NOT your friend. Ever. They exist to protect the company. Period.

Victim #1 is in the process of doing that right now. Bastard is not even gonna get a cake at this rate and I won't have to l ift a finger.
 
#36
P-Squared said:
I left a fortune 50 company to go help a sick friend run his business before he passed. I was a director who ran a team of analysts. I left on good terms, but I busted several peoples balls after I left because the stock dropped. (pure coincidence) It made for some fun ribbing at the executive level. In reality, I was one employee in a company of 50,000. To this day I remind some of my friends their stock tanked when they allowed me to leave.

I believe if you really make yourself that invaluable in what you do, you will be pigeon-holed and will never go anywhere else.

I say turn up the heat and let him 'self-select'. No severance, no unemployment, no regrets.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I missed this, earlier.

That is *not* how it works on Wall St. It's one of the few work environments where really good people are "incentivized" to remain at the firm in order to keep them from going elsewhere.... especially to a competitor. They offer "Retention bonuses," etc. The person who gets the biggest bonus (often 7 figures) or the "corner office" (yes, office real-estate is a compensation component and a big one) is the one who, in the eyes of senior management, is the greatest "flight risk." Same thing with "Corporate Titles." Your job title may have very little to do with your "Corporate Title..." You might be a "Dept. Magager," but your corporate title might be "Senior Vice president." They usually go "Asst. VP," "VP," "First VP," "Senior VP," "Director," and "Managing Director." As it turns out , I made it to "VP," but not for long.
 
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#37
Fx51LP308 said:
The "Prior to the day" thing may not mater, after all. Depends on how "confidential/sensitive" your work is. The day you "give notice" is, likely, the day they'll "escort you out" anyway, for their own safety/security. I've seen it happen in re: very sensitive sales/"customer facing" jobs... Guy comes in at 10:00am to give notice, and by 10:15a, he was out the door, escorted by security. Better have your keys and personal items on your person when you give notice as you may not be allowed back to your desk to collect them. And clean off your desk of family photos, personal books, etc. the night before.
Click to expand...
This happened to me about 12 years ago.
I was recruited by another company. I took my days off and composed emails, printed letters of resignation, gathered every piece of company owned shit that was in my possession and packed it in the company truck. I write zeros and then format the drive on the company computer and restore it to as I received it minus some stickers and some wear.
On my first day back from days off, I intentionally arrive about an hour late after going to the post office to send certified letters. My sweetie drove my POV and waited in the employee lot. I go get what little bit of stuff I had in an office I rarely was in.
I knock as I walk in to my managers office, engineering. It was normal to knock as I entered. I hand him a sealed letter and sit across from his desk, pull up my company email and press send.
He curses a little (we are still good friends) and says he's gotta make a call. I hear his side..."what?" "really?" "this is dumb." While all that is going on, the District Manager walks by, sees me, sits beside me and starts to chat quietly. Then he realizes what is going on. He curses a little. (we are still good friends). My manager hangs up, looks at his boss and says, "guess what?" Bossman says we gotta escort him out of the building with security and go get his truck and take inventory.
'Yep!"
DM says, "well, instead of doing all that security crap, we will document his return of company property and then we will go have steaks and drinks for lunch. Call whoever is free to join."
I hated the corporate level of that place (a global company) but my local bosses were/are real good guys.
Get this though...about 8 months later I get 2 checks. One was for the 4 weeks notice that I gave but didn't work and the other was for prorated annual bonus up to that 4 week date!! HAHA!! Apparently certified letters are heavy.
I bought a rifle and a scope and a new TV since mine had burned itself out and bought Bitcoin with the rest, I figured that was a stupid thing to do.
 
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