I believe they have one because A: it's explicitly unconstitutional, 2: glowies on forums adamantly deny it, and D: just cuz.
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Do you believe the government has an electronic database of gun owners?
- Thread starter higginsworksforme
- Start date
No. That would be illegal.
However, there is some (shell) company, somewhere, that has it and is willing to provide the data for a small fee.
Note: that's how they get around laws...
However, there is some (shell) company, somewhere, that has it and is willing to provide the data for a small fee.
Note: that's how they get around laws...
Does it really matter?
There's guns in at least 50% of the households. That makes it a coin flip when they are at the door
There's guns in at least 50% of the households. That makes it a coin flip when they are at the door
All gun shops that do electronic 4473s have to keep the electronic file on a hard drive…….
I voted yes, but it doesn't matter really, they would go house to house anyway if they ever got serious. Neighbors would rat out neighbors ect....
If domestic espionage, and Constitutional violations by our own government are on the table...the answer is always "yes".
They just lack the manpower, and probably 1-2 more generations of conditioning before they can do anything with it on any kind of scale.
They just lack the manpower, and probably 1-2 more generations of conditioning before they can do anything with it on any kind of scale.
There’s a movie called “Snowden” (based on a true story). If they can monitor people at that level, a database with all the firearms info is peanuts.
AI voice assistants on EV’s, both iOS and android platforms are constantly listening. They slip up here and there.
AI voice assistants on EV’s, both iOS and android platforms are constantly listening. They slip up here and there.
Someone tried to argue that it doesn't exist by stating that a multi-user excel sheet would run slowly.
lol
Not true... Every electronic 4473 is printed from the app and must be stored by the FFL.
AND they have to keep them for the life of their business. The ATF was busted a few years ago doing some hanky-panky with NICS information:
Leaked Document Shows ATF Spying on Gun Buyers Through NICS
This monitoring of NICS isn’t for prohibited people. It is for monitoring people that are not prohibited from buying a firearm, but the ATF suspects MIGHT be committing a crime in the future.
www.ammoland.com
Everyone sends it in electronically technically, because that's how they answer it..... but ..... if you fill out the paper and send it in then they just keep the paper copy and record it in their book.
It's a much better way and I would ask any store how they do it before I bought or filled it out. The ones that do it that way , do it for a reason .
I have access to the Canadian one.
It shows you who, what, where, when , why.
It was set up for confiscation in 1996.
Now they are using it to try and confiscate guns...
But they haven't because they are afraid of armed conflict...assassinations....theft...and probably kidnapping and rape.
Registration leads to confiscation.
It shows you who, what, where, when , why.
It was set up for confiscation in 1996.
Now they are using it to try and confiscate guns...
But they haven't because they are afraid of armed conflict...assassinations....theft...and probably kidnapping and rape.
Registration leads to confiscation.
That may be a partial truth, see below. I ran a gun store during this change of rule. They are kept on a hard drive for the life of the business.
AND they have to keep them for the life of their business. The ATF was busted a few years ago doing some hanky-panky with NICS information:
Leaked Document Shows ATF Spying on Gun Buyers Through NICS
This monitoring of NICS isn’t for prohibited people. It is for monitoring people that are not prohibited from buying a firearm, but the ATF suspects MIGHT be committing a crime in the future.
Data is the most valuable commodity that exists today. It would be naive to assume these datapoints and others are not being collected at every opportunity.
They've been caught doing it many times, of course they are. Any info that comes though there, is being kept. They've proven themselves liars over and over.
Some people pay a $200 set-up fee to put themselves on the registry.
Everyone has a digital footprint regardless of what they think, the government monitors and keeps databases on pretty much everything we do, regardless of what they say or we think.
There are no secrets, someone somewhere knows, whether they/we deny it or not.
There are no secrets, someone somewhere knows, whether they/we deny it or not.
So you just run cans without a stamp? It's not like it matters , if you are on a list, you're on a list. If you have bought a new gun, or any gun through an FFL, you are on a list. Those with cans are on a list or maybe 2 lists... I don't see a difference. Given what all these agencies did to one of if not the most powerful man in the world, I don't think staying off the suppressor owner list is going to matter much
I wish I could get a suppressor - having CHS (Can't hear shit) this would greatly help - but nooooooooooooo my commie state bans them.
Snowden was clear that "Monster Mind" collects "all" electronically transmitted information. All phone calls, all emails, all texts, etc....
Correct.
And hackers can get info about you online too.
That's why proper storage is important
Exactly.
But it confirms that there is a list, and legal one at that.
I wouldn't put it past a bureaucrat to think "OOOO This is a legal list. Lets ramp up the approval rate so we can get more names on the list!!!" while stupidly forgetting the bit about "50% of households".
This! ^^^
Fellow Americans....remember your constitution! Never forget its writers' intentions....to protect CIVILLIANS FROM GOV'T !!!
Guess what the lying politicians have been saying in Canada.
"We are going to protect your firearms rights by paying you fairly for them".
Trudeau was just at the U.N. giving them 7 Billion....saying he is following through with the disarmament goals.
I have been spying on these bastards for years.
If it were all carrot and not stick....we would be dead meat long ago.
2A matters.
Magna Carta matters.
The reason the Pilgrims left the Crown led UK was because they were bloody dictators.
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Here in komifornia you can send in a notarized request of records to see what they have on file for you. Also some general info
I think it's pretty likely they have some sort of database. With all the discussions around gun control and safety, it makes sense that they’d want to keep track of gun ownership.
California is one of the best places on earth in the conservative areas.
Canada just banned IPSC and IDPA handgun shooting in Ontario.
Time to boycott gun dealers that aid the gov building a data base of gun owners and the guns they own.
They don't have to. With the massive amount of data collection by Facebook, Google, and the other mega-corporations, they can use your browsing history, cell phone location data, and a variety of other means to make the determination as to whether you're a firearms owner period. They can use your purchasing history to make conclusions about what you likely own, and largely, they only care about one class of firearms, so they can easily make an assumption that you do or don't own an AR or other semi-automatic firearm. All of which is available for a fee, doesn't require a warrant, and is available to them anytime they ask. So do they have a list? No, but they didn't need a list to begin with.
Be a good idea to trade items instead of cash.
I.E. 2000 rounds of M855 for a Glock 20 with optic ect ect
Define "aid the gov". If I have an inspection, and the ATF comes in to inspect my books, how do I prevent them from making photocopies or taking pictures of my A&D book without risking the revocation of my FFL. If I cooperate, to the extent i'm required to do so, then I get boycotted, lose my livelyhood. If I resist, I may lose my license, lose my livelyhood.
I'm assuming you mean that dealers that actively participate in a request to provide records to the ATF, not as part of a legal investigation either related, or unrelated, to the gun store itself, but just because the ATF asked for 'em. I don't think you mean to boycot a gun store just because they complied to a legal request for records by the ATF....or do you?
This is why the High Level Alberta situation still completely pisses me off. And there are other things, too.....
Yeah, trade would keep you off the radar largely, but then you text your buddy to tell him about your trade, and voila, now they know. You gotta speak in code. "got 2k fish eggs for a dildo with balls". lol
Illinois passed a law ("gun dealer licensing act") that increased the burden on operating as an FFL in IL. The (intended) result is that many FFLs could not absorb the extra costs, and had to close. Close to 50% of FFLs in the state closed, according to some sources.
And what happened to their bound books? Why, turned over to the ATF, of course!
I'm sure the entries therein were not inventoried...
And what happened to their bound books? Why, turned over to the ATF, of course!
I'm sure the entries therein were not inventoried...
I believe there is an official unofficial list, yes. surely I would be on there as 90% of my purchases are from a store, plus several NFA items.
hate to be that fun less guy but my livelihood depends on me following the rules to the letter
.
not too mad though because the shit I own is par excellence so I feel a little bit free.
hate to be that fun less guy but my livelihood depends on me following the rules to the letter
.not too mad though because the shit I own is par excellence so I feel a little bit free.
It's probably illegal to possess 2k fish eggs without a breeders license.
Then there's the environmental study, watershed impact, raptor health society approval and Bunny Behavioral Coalition.
Don't forget the turtles. The turtles are important too.
Big Brother has no idea what we gots.... They thought WMD's were in Iraq, for Christ sake.
I would like to have a suppressor too …. BUT ?
To get one most people on here know what the process is to acquire one.
Isn’t it odd that suddenly the process has shortened the wait times recently , from months to weeks
? …….Why ? If your a first time can buyer that tips the man off that you probably have some serious weapons. The long wait times from stamp to actually screwing it on WAS a big reason I never tried. Now , the less attention I bring on myself the better. Shorter wait times …..something don’t seem right.if you want a suppressor and live in a free state, just buy one.
I did 10 years ago, thereabouts. excellent purchase, expensive but well used. buy once cry once also, it isn't that expensive after you realize one good can should last your entire shooting life, and maybe significantly more.
It's harder now, but I'd still 10x rather it be quick and the paperwork be a little more difficult and foolproof on their end.
I've done both fwiw, first time trust so no background check and no fingerprints or anything, just a year long wait.
that said, I can/have done and passed all those things so my future purchases were individual to keep it more simplified.
These are the "good old days" for suppressed shooting.
I did 10 years ago, thereabouts. excellent purchase, expensive but well used. buy once cry once also, it isn't that expensive after you realize one good can should last your entire shooting life, and maybe significantly more.
It's harder now, but I'd still 10x rather it be quick and the paperwork be a little more difficult and foolproof on their end.
I've done both fwiw, first time trust so no background check and no fingerprints or anything, just a year long wait.
that said, I can/have done and passed all those things so my future purchases were individual to keep it more simplified.
These are the "good old days" for suppressed shooting.
I am well aware of the process, the problem is Peoples Republic of Illinois bans them . I believe there is a case in the courts now trying to address this, until the BS law is struck down, not much I can do besides move and right now that is not an option.I would like to have a suppressor too …. BUT ?
To get one most people on here know what the process is to acquire one.
Isn’t it odd that suddenly the process has shortened the wait times recently , from months to weeks
Electronic, paper, and one entirely acted out by collectable first edition Jim Henson signed puppets paid for by our tax dollars
None of my purchases require the 4473 be transmitted. The FFL has to keep them. but they are not sent anywhere.
No, I don't think the government has a database of gun owners. I know they do.
If your FFL is lucky enough to have a crime gun, or high volume suspected straw purchases traced to them or goes out of business your 4473's WILL go into the database.
Is there a FFL on here that has gone through a gov inspection?
Were you allowed to watch, help, guide them through your books?
Did they photocopy everything you had?
FED or state and what state?
If you buy a high quantity of "Receiver", "Pistol", "Rifle" (what is a high quantity for a non FFL?) over a short period (your 2A right) then you be attracting attention. To both you and your FFL.
Is there a FFL on here that has gone through a gov inspection?
Were you allowed to watch, help, guide them through your books?
Did they photocopy everything you had?
FED or state and what state?
If you buy a high quantity of "Receiver", "Pistol", "Rifle" (what is a high quantity for a non FFL?) over a short period (your 2A right) then you be attracting attention. To both you and your FFL.
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