PRS Talk PRS Tac Class 308 Win

bbyars · May 7, 2024

Anyone in here actively compete in Tac Class? Ive finally put my 308 rifle together and just curious if im thinking the wrong way here. Ive bought quite a bit of the 177SMK and have little load data on them but have found 2 nodes with these around 2600 and one around 2690....I can push them harder but since most of the matches are 1000yds or less is it really needed? I have always bought bullets on the heavier end of the spectrum and then tried to shoot them at max distance just trying to find the limits of the cartridge but it is seeming like some of the guys are having good success with the 155 bullets in which i have never tested. Is there enough positives to actually try to switch over to these and what is your prefered bullet?

177s
Moderate recoil
545ish BC
2600-2700fps
Target splash
Dirt splash

155s
Less recoil?
520 BC?
2800+fps?
?
?

Just curious as to what is actually winning in this class as it seems like there is no coverage on anything but Open.

DairyDictator · May 7, 2024

Can't speak to the pro series but I run 223 (75 ELDM's) in my club and regional series. Our range goes to 660. I run slower so I have more time to see what happens downrange. I have no problem hanging with the 6mm's

For 308 the decisions would probably be similar.

155's @ 2800 max per rules
- lower recoil
- lower BC
- closer transonic range (things can get weird here)

175-178's
- Higher recoil
- Potentially less wind drift
- Further transonic range

Splash difference will probably be negligible.

Set up multiple profiles in your solver and see what the difference actually is. When comparing your wind values, input what you can call the wind to. For example if you can consistently call the wind to +/-2MPH, input 2. Reason for this is your elevation and wind calls are just numbers, doesn't really matter what they are. What matters is how much your error will bite you.

For what it's worth, seems like a lot of the guys who take tac seriously are shooting the 178 ELDM, 176 ATip, and 75 ELDM.

b6graham · May 7, 2024

well speed limit is 2800 for 308 so 155s are worthless unfortunately

when i shot PRS/TAC i shot 75 JLKs at 3k fps. if i wanted to shoot 308 I'd be using factory ammo

bbyars · May 7, 2024

Isn’t it 2800 fps for both 223 and 308?

b6graham · May 7, 2024

bbyars said:
Isn’t it 2800 fps for both 223 and 308?

223 is 3k

D_TROS · May 7, 2024

I shot 168 bergers at 2750. had good luck with those.

really like the 155's but the speed limit kills them.

honestly id go with whatever shoots the best for you. and practice like crazy..

GL!
DT

DairyDictator · May 7, 2024

Berger 168's have an unusually high BC for their weight. Probably why they're difficult to find

Rob01 · May 7, 2024

bbyars said:
Anyone in here actively compete in Tac Class? Ive finally put my 308 rifle together and just curious if im thinking the wrong way here. Ive bought quite a bit of the 177SMK and have little load data on them but have found 2 nodes with these around 2600 and one around 2690....I can push them harder but since most of the matches are 1000yds or less is it really needed? I have always bought bullets on the heavier end of the spectrum and then tried to shoot them at max distance just trying to find the limits of the cartridge but it is seeming like some of the guys are having good success with the 155 bullets in which i have never tested. Is there enough positives to actually try to switch over to these and what is your prefered bullet?

177s
Moderate recoil
545ish BC
2600-2700fps
Target splash
Dirt splash

155s
Less recoil?
520 BC?
2800+fps?
?
?

Just curious as to what is actually winning in this class as it seems like there is no coverage on anything but Open.

What 155 has a .520 BC?

I have shot 178s and 168 ELD-Ms in my .308 in matches. Both did really well and the rifle didn't have much recoil especially with the 168s. I had them going 2750fps. I just started playing with the 176 ATips and have them going 2700fps and plan to use them in some matches this year.

bbyars · May 7, 2024

Rob01 said:
What 155 has a .520 BC?

I have shot 178s and 168 ELD-Ms in my .308 in matches. Both did really well and the rifle didn't have much recoil especially with the 168s. I had them going 2750fps. I just started playing with the 176 ATips and have them going 2700fps and plan to use them in some matches this year.

155 smk or lapua

b6graham · May 7, 2024

bbyars said:
155 smk or lapua

those are both well below .500

D_TROS · May 7, 2024

the 155 mk palma has a bc of 504

its a fantastic bullet actually...I wish i could push em at 2950 in tac class...

Rob01 · May 7, 2024

bbyars said:
155 smk or lapua

Yeah both well below .5 but I looked around and found the new Tipped Sierra 155 is .519 so that's pretty good for a 155.

StrayDog · May 7, 2024

169 smk, I get 2800 fps in 26" 1-10 with 44g varget.

DairyDictator · May 7, 2024

Rob01 said:
What 155 has a .520 BC?

I have shot 178s and 168 ELD-Ms in my .308 in matches. Both did really well and the rifle didn't have much recoil especially with the 168s. I had them going 2750fps. I just started playing with the 176 ATips and have them going 2700fps and plan to use them in some matches this year.

How big of a difference in recoil did you notice between the 168s and 178s?

Rob01 · May 8, 2024

DairyDictator said:
How big of a difference in recoil did you notice between the 168s and 178s?

Not much difference in recoil between the two. The 168 were going faster so probably a little offset there. Both worked fine for matches. If I had to choose I would probably go with the 168 ELD-M as it's got a good BC and good velocity. The new 168/169s get passed over a lot as people still have the bad rep of the 168 SMK in their head and don't want to shoot them as they think all bullets in that range are the same.

Tperry · May 8, 2024

I ran the 175smk for 2 years around 2580-2600fps. It did really well and could spot impacts/misses fairly well of of stable props. Recoil was manageable.

This weekend I'm going to change it up and shoot a match running the Berger 155 around 2780 fps. We'll see how that goes. Recoil seems slightly softer so I should be able to spot better.

I may end up just going back to the 175 if there isn't enough gain.

Criver600 · May 10, 2024

I've shot thousands of 155SMK's out of my Palma rifle. Very accurate and with a good load great elevation. I'll trade that for a few points of BC any day.

Rob01 · May 10, 2024

Elevation means nothing when you know the range to target. Wind is where it's at and where the BC will help you. I'll take a very accurate and higher BC bullet all day any day.

308pirate · May 10, 2024

Criver600 said:
I've shot thousands of 155SMK's out of my Palma rifle. Very accurate and with a good load great elevation. I'll trade that for a few points of BC any day.

You can drive them as fast as you like in NRA mid and long range. Not so in PRS.

Criver600 · May 11, 2024

308pirate said:
You can drive them as fast as you like in NRA mid and long range. Not so in PRS.

I believe I was pointing out great accuracy and elevation........but computer shooting

308pirate · May 11, 2024

Criver600 said:
I believe I was pointing out great accuracy and elevation........but computer shooting

We all know what you meant. It doesn't matter here because they can't be driven at the speed they need to be driven to avoid excessive wind drift.

Or are you saying that 155s at 2700 don't suffer more in the wind than bullets with better BCs at the same speed? Is that what you meant by "computer shooting"?

Ledzep · May 11, 2024

175 SMK in M118LR won tac class this year (speaking of 2023 season) FWIW. My opinion: It's a .308 it's going to suck (relatively), get good at shooting and load what shoots best.

Tperry · May 12, 2024

Shot the 155 hybrids at a match this weekend. Ran them tac class at 2775fps. Came in 11th out of 92 overall so I think they did ok. Definitely flatter than the other guys in my squad running 175s around 2600-2650.

I think I'll be doing this swap permanently for my tac rig. Less recoil and they don't care about jump at all. They just shoot good.

TimResin · May 12, 2024

Rob01 said:
Not much difference in recoil between the two. The 168 were going faster so probably a little offset there. Both worked fine for matches. If I had to choose I would probably go with the 168 ELD-M as it's got a good BC and good velocity. The new 168/169s get passed over a lot as people still have the bad rep of the 168 SMK in their head and don't want to shoot them as they think all bullets in that range are the same.

Rob01 have you used the 174 ELD VT yet? I bought a 1000 and need to start working a load up

Rob01 · May 12, 2024

TimResin said:
Rob01 have you used the 174 ELD VT yet? I bought a 1000 and need to start working a load up

No haven’t tried them yet but they look interesting. I am sure the load will be right around where my 168/178/176 bullet load is as all those are within .2grns of each other.

TimResin · May 12, 2024

I think Im just going to do the same load as my berger 175 otm/ 178eldm

sneakypayload · May 20, 2024

Tperry said:
Shot the 155 hybrids at a match this weekend. Ran them tac class at 2775fps. Came in 11th out of 92 overall so I think they did ok. Definitely flatter than the other guys in my squad running 175s around 2600-2650.

I think I'll be doing this swap permanently for my tac rig. Less recoil and they don't care about jump at all. They just shoot good.

I sqaudded with this son of a bitch.

Those Berger 155's absolutely fuck.

I was one of the guys running 170 class bullets. I was running the Sierra 177 SMK-CN. They definitely do really well, but shooting @Tperry 's rifle vs mine (very similar set ups down to brake and barrel length) I became a true believer with the Berger 155's and ordered 1500 of them. 155's at 2775ish vs 170 class bullets at 2600, I'll take the lighter bullet and slightly flatter trajectory, and less recoil.

Rob01 · May 20, 2024

2600 is very slow for a 170 weight bullet. Compare them at 2700-2750fps which is where most shoot them.

Tperry · May 20, 2024

Rob01 said:
2600 is very slow for a 170 weight bullet. Compare them at 2700-2750fps which is where most shoot them.

I ran them up that fast for a while. Couldn't spot anything. Had to drop to 2600 to spot dirt/splash. Dropping to 2600 my scores definitely improved.

sneakypayload · May 20, 2024

Rob01 said:
2600 is very slow for a 170 weight bullet. Compare them at 2700-2750fps which is where most shoot them.

Why run them faster when you are still inside of 1k yards at most places?

It allows me to spot hits/misses and not have a 30 lbs rifle, I can run it at 21ish pounds with a good brake and I see where my bullet is going, that's me though.

Rob01 · May 20, 2024

Tperry said:
I ran them up that fast for a while. Couldn't spot anything. Had to drop to 2600 to spot dirt/splash. Dropping to 2600 my scores definitely improved.

I can see the lower velocity being less recoil but maybe it’s my shooting rifles in matches without brakes for years in the 178 at 2700+ but the .308 in those areas with a 20 pound rifle and a good brake is pretty easy for me to spot my shots. Everyone has to use what works for them though.

Bigrederic · May 20, 2024

I plan too someday when I get off the island. I have a PRS Tac Class rifle built, same stock and action as many of my other rifles. I was planning on running the Berger 175 OTM, same round we are running in our work guns right now. It has been great at training when stretching out to 1000+ yards out of our 18 & 20inch 308s, so I imagine that it will do the same out of a longer barrel.

FUNCTIONAL · May 20, 2024

Been shooting tac with a 308 since 2019 and did well in 2019 when I competed heavily. Just ran regular 175smk at 2750. When you compare all the bullets you maybe gain .1 of wind past 700 or 800. Other than that the wind is even between them all. Drop will be different but with how accurate kestrel profiles are and all prs distance are known I don't sweat it. If I miss its not because my drop was off it's because of you crappy position or guessing wind wing.

I tried the 169smk recently and like them. Will get a little more but didn't feel they were enough difference over the 175 to stress off i couldn't get them.

Bigrederic · May 20, 2024

FUNCTIONAL said:
Been shooting tac with a 308 since 2019 and did well in 2019 when I competed heavily. Just ran regular 175smk at 2750. When you compare all the bullets you maybe gain .1 of wind past 700 or 800. Other than that the wind is even between them all. Drop will be different but with how accurate kestrel profiles are and all prs distance are known I don't sweat it. If I miss its not because my drop was off it's because of you crappy position or guessing wind wing.

I tried the 169smk recently and like them. Will get a little more but didn't feel they were enough difference over the 175 to stress off i couldn't get them.

My data between my 105 Hyb at 2850 out of my 6BRA and the Bergers 175 OTM, at like 2700 are crazy close, not as bad as one thinks, this is with a 5mph full value wind.

FUNCTIONAL · May 20, 2024

@Bigrederic exactly. You get a recoil advantage in your case but when you compare 308 bullets against eachother its a wash in my opinion. People stress too much about bullet selection. Pick the bullet that shoots best in your gun and you can find at a price you can live with and call it a day. If a 308 is too manly for you go 223 it will perform the same but gentler on your soft shoulders.

bbyars · Oct 1, 2024

Ive shot 1500x 177 SMKs and around 700x 175 SMKs around the 2600fps mark....they have treated me well but always looking to improve. I tried and tried to get the 168 eldm to shoot but once my xbr 8208 dried up so did the accuracy. I have since been trying out some old discontinued 155 VLD Targets and these things shoot. Been playing with the trying to run them up near the limit and are showing better down range performance than the 175s in the 700-1000 yd range in my experience.

D_TROS · Oct 1, 2024

FUNCTIONAL said:
@Bigrederic exactly. You get a recoil advantage in your case but when you compare 308 bullets against eachother its a wash in my opinion. People stress too much about bullet selection. Pick the bullet that shoots best in your gun and you can find at a price you can live with and call it a day. If a 308 is too manly for you go 223 it will perform the same but gentler on your soft shoulders.

when I won top tac in the prs finale in 2018 I used both 168's and 155's at 2775. man those 155's shot well.

exactly as you said, pick the bullet that shoot mo better. if I shot it again id prob stick with the 155's.

GL
DT

Ledzep · Oct 1, 2024

JFYI, if you run non-binder plate AICS magazines (2.950" COAL allowable), the 174gr ELD-VT's will fit in .308. .573 G1, .289 G7. This was one of my projects and I had TAC Class in mind in the development process.

At the end of the day, though, run what shoots best. It takes a huge BC gap to make up for raw dispersion.

Midpack · Oct 1, 2024

I shot the 177smk and ended up taking to tac for the season in my region this season. I was running them at 2725 all season. Had no issues spotting shots. My rifle is 22lbs with no bipod on it. My first match was a bit rough because of how sloppy I had become with my 6s. Once I pulled my head out of my ass and just made sure I drove the rifle every shot the additional recoil over the 6s was a relative non issue. I wouldn't mind trying the 169smk but I could get my hands on the 177 in quantities where the 169s were harder to come by

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